Shooting in Cali...not good for the cause...


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SilentStalker
April 2, 2012, 05:26 PM
This is not good for us owners. People are screaming that we should ban everything now...

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/02/multiple-fatalities-in-shooting-at-california-college-oakland-police-say/comment-page-2/#comments

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SharpsDressedMan
April 2, 2012, 05:52 PM
I'm so tired of the anti's whining, I'm READYfor a ban on all guns (of course, I won't turn mine in). I'd prefer to ban guns for the police & military, too, but they'll probably just ban them for us civilians. A few months of rampant violent crime, murder, dirty drug deals, and mayhem, and the general populace will be ready to lift the ban. And any cops that think an armed, well intentioned citizenry doesn't keep THEM from getting killed are just naive or crazy. Let's get it over with.

ConstitutionCowboy
April 2, 2012, 06:02 PM
I'm so tired of the anti's whining, I'm READYfor a ban on all guns (of course, I won't turn mine in). I'd prefer to ban guns for the police & military, too, but they'll probably just ban them for us civilians. A few months of rampant violent crime, murder, dirty drug deals, and mayhem, and the general populace will be ready to lift the ban. And any cops that think an armed, well intentioned citizenry doesn't keep THEM from getting killed are just naive or crazy. Let's get it over with.

I understand your frustration, but I do believe any anarchic chaos would be met with marshal law and not a lifting of any ban(s).

Woody

DoubleTapDrew
April 2, 2012, 06:27 PM
Which cause? That school is a "gun free zone".

Old krow
April 2, 2012, 06:34 PM
Which cause? That school is a "gun free zone".

I'm inclined to agree...they're already banned there. The "antis" are going to scream "ban them" no matter what.

If anything I think that it hurts their case. "Let's ban gun everywhere so the rest of the world can be as safe as our schools"

SharpsDressedMan
April 2, 2012, 07:08 PM
Yeah, let's have martial law, too. I wonder how long the National Guard could hang on to THEIR guns.......................

maskedman504
April 2, 2012, 07:34 PM
Ascribing to societal melt down to justify rights already granted by your own Consitution?

I am surprised SharpsDressedMan.

:uhoh:

gp911
April 2, 2012, 08:01 PM
I gotta say SDM's rant made me laugh, it pretty well sums up the exasperation I feel sometimes over 2A issues and those that use every opportunity to undermine the right to bear arms.

The Lone Haranguer
April 2, 2012, 08:41 PM
Alameda County (Oakland is the county seat and each county has its own rules) doesn't allow lawful carry for citizens, and the school is yet another so-called "gun-free zone." I am puzzled how this could have happened. :rolleyes:

SharpsDressedMan
April 2, 2012, 08:51 PM
Unfortunately, I believe some of these things are inevitable. If our political parties really LISTENED to each other, and presented logical arguments, a common, sensible resolution to an armed America might result (same for the other conflicted issues that divide us), but it is not in our current "human nature" to use common sense and reasoning. It seems that, soon, socialism/communism has to make its run here, too. The erosion of the the spirit of the individual, that thing that created, discovered, tamed, and made this country is pretty much history. Our society has lost its motivation, and seems to be content to have the government provide for them. You and I may remember and have known brave men, but the current crop of couch potatoes, Iphone thummers, and electronic gamers are probably NOT going to give us many leaders, explorers, or other adventurous souls like those of yesterday. I'm kind of glad that I am getting old and probably won't be around for the really BAD degradation of our society, because it would really break my heart to see it.

Tinman357
April 2, 2012, 09:27 PM
My musings are pretty simple. How many people at that school would have been armed if they were in a place that allowed it?

Furthermore, how many of those were, at any time, in a position to have stopped him? How many lives would have been saved, how much anguish could have been averted if lawful concealed carry had been the norm there?

I do absolutely know without a doubt that 2 armed persons with the skill and will to use it could have changed the outcome of the worst terrorist attack this nation has endured. The fallout of that attack has echoed in the daily lives of every American because of the loss of freedoms the .gov have foisted off on us since that day.

I've honestly given up on people seeing the plain and blindingly simple logic of our constitution. You simply cannot legislate morality or human behavior. You can only punish the offender. Disarming society as a whole only protects those criminaly inclined thereby creating an environment where the criminal will flourish.

For the anti's trolling this board. I have a logical proposition...

Want more gun control? Fine. Go live in any major city in England without your body guards. Go out after dark for a meal in Manchester. If you survive there for 6 months in your idea of a gun free utopia, come home to freedom, buy yourself a gun, get the training to safely and effectively use it and stop ramming gun control down my throat because you fear what you don't understand.

Neverwinter
April 2, 2012, 09:29 PM
This is not good for us owners. People are screaming that we should ban everything now...

And they would be foolish to do so. This incident is like many others that results in kneejerk reactions without any considerations to the costs and benefits of what they plan to change. The cost of a ban would be huge compared to the benefits as they apply to this incident. This is not to say that nothing can be done; VTech increased mental health reporting relevant to effectively enforcing existing law.

Sent using Tapatalk

joneser49
April 2, 2012, 09:42 PM
What if one of the students or teachers was concealed carrying?

gunnutery
April 2, 2012, 10:55 PM
As Rahm Emanuel said "never let a good crisis go to waste" or something like that. There are legislators looking to overturn "stand your ground" as well, but even Zimmerman's lawyer has said "stand your ground" doesn't apply to the FL case. California has some of the strictest (read: dumbest) gun laws in the U.S. but that didn't stop a guy from killing 7 and wounding 3 at a "gun-free zone" today.

I always remind people seeking a restraining order that it's a piece of legal paper, not a shield. "Gun-free zone" signs are the same thing too, it's a legal device, not a force field.

Shear_stress
April 2, 2012, 11:18 PM
California has some of the strictest (read: dumbest) gun laws in the U.S. but that didn't stop a guy from killing 7 and wounding 3 at a "gun-free zone" today.

This the most compelling argument here. I'm a staunch believer in concealed carry, but reminding anti-gun folks of just what it takes to (legally) get a handgun in California is going to convince far more people than hypotheticals about what would've happened if shall issue carry was allowed in Oakland, if concealed carry was allowed in a college, if a lawful carrier was nearby, and if he or she reacted properly. The only thing we know for sure is that California's strict and evergrowing gun laws did absolutely nothing, just as they do nothing to stem crime or violence there every other day of the week.

When anti-gun folks inevitably reply with ban-happy nonsense, they can be shown numerous examples of places where complete handguns bans (Chicago, Washington DC and the UK) have had no absolutely effect on violence there.

Dr_B
April 2, 2012, 11:28 PM
I am with those who would like to see incidents like today's shooting stop or, more realistically, happen much less often. Not only is there an obvious loss of life, but these shootings only add to the hysteria that fuels gun banning. Today's rigid guns laws in Canada are partly the result of a shooting that happened in Toronto. Every shooting is another step in the wrong direction. I fear that eventually one of these incidents backed by politics and media frenzy will push us over the edge into a total ban.

lloveless
April 2, 2012, 11:30 PM
Gun Free Zones merely place a target on everyones back.
ll

chevyman097
April 2, 2012, 11:34 PM
Ill tell you what im tired of. Seeing EVERY SINGLE new report involving a crime with a gun posted. Jeez. really? I dont watch the news because I get tired of seeing this crap. Seems like lately I cant even come here without seeing it too.

Isnt there some rule on the forums about not being a news outlet? I think there is.

Larry Ashcraft
April 2, 2012, 11:40 PM
Closed as off topic.

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