AWB and the election


February 15, 2004, 04:03 AM
If the AWB passes congress (by a narrow margin), lands on Bush's desk and he signs it into law. (for arguement's sake it doesn't matter if it is the same one a worse one or a 'better' one) will you vote for him?

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February 15, 2004, 04:10 AM
I will not vote for him anyway.


February 15, 2004, 05:33 AM
Hell, no!


February 15, 2004, 06:21 AM
We(gun owners) have been waiting for 10 years for this blighted law to be ended. Why would we vote for anyone who says that he's gonna continue it. The best thing that GWB can do is to keep his mouth shut and just let Clinton's gun ban to fade away.

The Senate will be voting on S. 659 in a few weeks to galvanize the NRA and gun owners to their side. They've got to give us something; both at the NRA convention(passage of S.659) and leading up to the election(Clinton's gun ban demise) to cheer about.

February 15, 2004, 07:18 AM
Allowing the ban to pass is one of the only things that will keep me voting for Bush. Im not REAL happy with him as it is. But, he is the best choice for now. BUT, if he does sign the ban he will be no better for this country than Kerry. And it would be worth it to send that message to the repub leadership.

Harry Tuttle
February 15, 2004, 08:07 AM
there is no way the AWB is going to be allowed out of committee this year.

February 15, 2004, 10:09 AM
Somebody voted yes?:what:

February 15, 2004, 10:32 AM
I might vote for him if he repealed the NFA and GCA, and refused to sign a new AWB...

February 15, 2004, 10:47 AM

Bush doesnt have much hope of getting my vote no matter what, but a vote for an AWB will ensure that he doesnt get it.

February 15, 2004, 10:59 AM
I wouldn't vote for Herr Shrub or that other fellow who I know tossed the apples at Dorothy in the "Wizard of Oz" movie.

I don't care what he does with the AWB - my expectation is it will expire and then magically resurface once Herr Shrub wins the election and gets four more years to wipe his behind with the Constitution.

February 15, 2004, 11:02 AM

February 15, 2004, 01:07 PM
I voted "no" only because there wasn't a "Hell No" option.

Bush is in trouble and he needs us gun owners to win the election. I've sent him a letter to that effect and will certainly vote Libertarian if he re-signs the AWB (yes, yes, assuming it gets out of committee).

February 15, 2004, 01:32 PM
it doesnt matter who you elect they all will sign it.

February 15, 2004, 02:02 PM
The AWB will not make it to his desk before November. But just as soon as he has won another four years at the trough, it'll appear as if by magic.
Does anybody remember the JFK quote about 'when the means of peaceful revolution are removed, only the violent means remain'? (Something like that, anyway.) How does it feel to be at war--- and losing?

February 15, 2004, 04:19 PM
How does it feel to be at war--- and losing?

It sucks.

February 15, 2004, 04:30 PM
I wont vote for either of the two evils. Vote libertarian, and you will sleep better at night. I know I will.

February 15, 2004, 11:16 PM
I wont vote for either of the two evils. Vote libertarian, and you will sleep better at night. I know I will.


February 16, 2004, 12:30 AM
Tell the vote counters how you feel. I have.

February 16, 2004, 01:54 AM
I am a dyed in the wool conservative. Bush isn't.
'Nuff said.

February 16, 2004, 03:12 AM
I dont have a problem with sending bush a message but the message you guys need to learn is kerry is not going to be any better. nor will dean. edwards I dont know much about.

do I absolutely like what bush has done no. he has done good with war though could of done better with iraq cause for war. rather war on terror be overseas than here. the big spending is discusting, I hate big government myself. the imigration status stuff sounds like a total waste.

no clear better option. kerry would strip the military of theyre fancy weapons if given the chance and ability. no doubt he would do the same to civilians. he is complete friend of brady bunch and not the firearms lover.

thread is a bit of a waste other than sending bush a message:no awb renewal.

better to make a an effort together than to throw away a vote on some 3rd party pipe dream. you will make yourself irrelevant if you dont voice to GB you dont want the AWB to be renewed.

Greg Bell
February 16, 2004, 03:27 AM
I can tolerate Bush claiming he supports the AWB while blantantly doing nothing to support it (and thus allowing it to expire). But if he actually signs it, or worse, starts pushing for it to pass, I'll then vote for Snoopy(Libertarians are too spineless on defense).

Don't get me wrong, I'm planning on voting for Bush. But I fully expect him to continue doing what he has been doing with regard to the AWB: nothing.


February 16, 2004, 07:32 AM
Vote libertarian, and you will sleep better at night.

Wise advice. I concur. :cool:

cracked butt
February 16, 2004, 08:01 AM
Yes, I will still vote for him, he isn't much of an alternative to John effen Kerry, but he's still a much better choice if you don't want to see anti-gun propaganda spew out of the Executive Office on a daily basis. Its sort of like taking a punch to the shoulder to avoid taking a punch to the chin.

If this bill gets to his desk, its time to take a serious look at the Republican leadership in congress. Remeber, GW said he would sign an AWB if it makes it to his desk- to me it sounds like a line drawn in the sand meaning that if the republicans in congress allow such drap to reach his desk, he's taking them all down.

February 16, 2004, 09:07 AM
I don't believe it will happen before the election . . . all Congress has to do is nothing for the AWB to expire . . . but after the election, I'm not so sure.

With a GOP house, a GOP senate and a GOP president, any renewal of the AWB will make it a GOP gun ban. I'll blame the party, as any scenario for renewal before the AWB expires will require the actions of a whole bunch of Republicans, not just one man.

And if the AWB is renewed before the election, I will not vote for ANY member of the GOP for ANY office, even if it's third assistant dog catcher in my home town.

Better a declared enemy (democRATS) than a backstabbing "friend."

(Bush's hard left turns during the past two years are making it harder and harder to justify voting for him anyway . . . an AWB renewal would be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.)

February 16, 2004, 09:14 AM
Good replies from all. My support for the President is weakened enough that I have become essentially a single-issue voter this time. While I couldn't bring myself to vote for the presumptive demo nominee, I will gladly write in John Galt as my choice. :neener:

TFL Survivor

Harry Tuttle
February 16, 2004, 12:17 PM
IMHO, Nothing will happen until 2005

if Bush is re-elected,
the Republocrats will kill any AWB as an "in yer face" to the Demicans

If Kerry is elected,
the reverse might occur,
but the majority in the house and senate will need to slip as well

Both parties will be too occupied this fall to accomplish much of anything new.
(unless we have Columbine 2.0)

Since the ban ends September 14th, 2004,
it would appear there is a window of opportunity to aquire full cap mags, folding stocks and threaded flashhiders...

Attaching the above to a post 1994 manufactured AR15 will be legal, but it creates an added complexity to any feature and date based definition of an AW.

Expect in a new AWB, the feature list to be replaced with specific model list like California's and the strawman SB288 in Maryland right now.

One can take heart from the testimony given by the antis in Annapolis last week.
They really did not have factual data, and we know the VPC was feeding them.
The statistics they did try to spin were meaningless, once the truth about the "statistically insignificant" 6.7 decrease in AW use in crime was revealed.

February 16, 2004, 06:29 PM
• The House has a Republican majority.
• The Senate has a Republican majority.
• The President is a Republican.
• We are wringing our hands at the very real possibility that the AWB will be re-newed.
• Some people, advocates of the 2nd Amendment no less, actually continue to support the Republican Party.

Something is deffinitely wrong with this picture!

February 16, 2004, 06:34 PM

The problem with the gun issue is the fact that it is an issue at all. It should not be. There lies the crux of the problem. You will never see gun owners unite because there are so many other issues that really should be issues. Five minutes in L&P should convince you that it just isn't going to happen. You and I (and 20 million others for that matter) may agree on gun issues, but what about the rest of the issues?

February 16, 2004, 08:31 PM

...but what about the rest of the issues?

The same should be done concerning the 2nd Amendment "issue(s)" as with any and all issues:

1) Square them all with the intent of the Constitution of the United States of America.

2) Where #1 does not apply, square them with the Constitution of the particular State concerned.

Headless Thompson Gunner
March 8, 2004, 11:40 PM
The problem is that we don't have any other choices. Bush will sign a new AWB if he gets one. Kerry will certainly sign one, and then immediately push for newer and more stringent gun bans. None of the thrid party candidates stand a chance of winning, so a vote for any of them is wasted.

I think we've already lost. There's no way for us to gain anything profitable, as far as gun rights are concerned, by selecting the next president.

Thus, I feel that it is prudent to minimize our losses to the best of our ability. We may have nothing to gain in the arena of gun rights, but there is more to freedom than just the right to keep and bear arms. Other equally important issues include the right to keep the product of our labors, to live in privacy from the government, to educate our children without government indoctrination, and generally to go about our lives without intrusion. Gun rights are an important aspect of liberty, but they aren't the only important aspect.

By that reasoning, I conclude that Bush is certainly the better choice (Patriot Act notwithstanding). Bush is far more inline with the overall concept of freedom than is Kerry.

That said, I still don't think I could bring myself to vote for George if he signs a new AWB.

March 9, 2004, 12:28 AM
Here are my thoughts. You can find the original at under commentary and then archive.

The Middle Road to Disaster
By Gerard Valentino Commentary
February 12, 2004

Beware Republicans; we are going down the same path that caused the disaster that is today's Democratic Party.

Second Amendment rights, low taxes and fiscal responsibility spawned the Republican revolution in the 1990s. Fed up with the growing nanny state and infringements on the right to bear arms, voters threw out the Democrats in an unprecedented 1994 congressional midterm sweep.

Ten years later the Republican Party abandoned its base, moved decidedly toward the middle of the road and the revolution has faded into oblivion. An old clich\'e9 says those that who forget history are doomed to repeat it - if they care about staying in power leaders of the Republican Party better get out the history book soon.

President Bush already alienated the conservative wing of the party by creating the Department of Homeland Security, a large, expensive and unwieldy government bureaucracy. He furthered angered the conservative faithful with the fiscal disaster that is the new prescription drug plan. Less than six months after its creation Bush already increased the expected budget from $400 million to $512 million. The cost will certainly go up further from there.

With the federal assault weapon ban set to sunset in the latter part of 2004, Bush and the Republican Party have a huge test in front of them. Do they keep their promise and allow the ban to expire or extend it in an attempt to win votes from the middle of the road?

President Clinton failed a similar test when he supported the North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Many believe it was his endorsement of NAFTA, combined with the Democrats continued push for stricter gun control that led to the huge Republican victory in the 1994 midterm elections.

Clinton's attempt to bow to the center and right of the Democratic Party angered traditional Democrats who stayed home during the 1994 midterm election. Republicans, galvanized by their anger over the assault weapons ban, voted in force and a revolution was created.

Now the tables have turned. Still in a state of disarray, Democrats are doing their best to gather forces in a bid to take back the White House. Meanwhile, Republicans, led by Bush, are a party slowing losing focus, determined to be all things to all people, without a vision or ideological integrity.

Bush's NAFTA is the assault weapons ban. But instead of putting a midterm election in jeopardy, his chances of keeping the White House are at risk.

Only strong support for letting the ban sunset will appease conservatives and Second Amendment supporters. Anything else will look like third attempt to buy votes from the middle and left at the expense of traditional Republican faithful.

Bush might be able to alienate the middle road conservative but the far-right ideologues will not stand idle a third time. Again, we have recent history to use as a reference; many on the far left defected from Al Gore's campaign by casting their vote for Ralph Nader in the 2000 presidential election in response to the Democratic Party's shift away from a traditional liberal agenda.

Had they stayed in the Democrat camp we never would have been subjected to the term "pregnant chad" or the seemingly never-ending recounts. Political experts believe the country is still evenly split over the same issues that caused the painfully close election results in 2000 - and most polls back up their theory.

If he wants to avoid a one-term presidency like his father, George W. Bush needs to learn the lesson painfully demonstrated by the Clinton-led Democratic Party and do everything possible to keep his base strongly behind his campaign.

Otherwise, Bush's decision to extend the assault weapons ban may go down in history with his father's no new taxes pledge as a fundamental political blunder that led to the undoing of a presidency.

(Gerard Valentino is a pro-concealed carry activist in Ohio, former military intelligence analyst and staff officer.)

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