Goodbye Canadian Gun Registry


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usmarine0352_2005
April 4, 2012, 05:52 PM
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Today should be the vote for C-19 which abolishes the Canadian Gun Registry. After that all it needs is the signature of the Governor General which is assured.



Good riddance.



http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Death+long+registry+heads+final+vote+Senate/6411295/story.html



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Death of long-gun registry heads to final vote in Senate


By Jordan Press, Postmedia News April 4, 2012 4:03 PM

OTTAWA — The Conservative government vowed during the 2011 election to eliminate the long-gun registry. On Wednesday night, the bill to officially end the registry — Bill C-19 — will have its final vote in the Senate, leaving only a signature from the Governor General needed to officially kill the registry.
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TurtlePhish
April 4, 2012, 05:54 PM
Good riddance. Congrats to all the Canadians here on THR!

Carne Frio
April 4, 2012, 05:56 PM
That's great new; our neighbors getting a little more freedom !

BCRider
April 4, 2012, 05:57 PM
Slight correction. It's only the non restricted long gun registry that covers the majority of rifles and shotguns which is getting the axe.

The registry for restricted and prohibited status firearms will continue as before. Examples of restricted firearms are all handguns which are not prohibited status, some short barrel rifles and shotguns and a fairly wide variety of AR style "black rifles".

So while it may not be the big victory we're now far better off up this way than the poor souls stuck in California.... :D

Old krow
April 4, 2012, 08:01 PM
So while it may not be the big victory we're now far better off up this way than the poor souls stuck in California....

Congrats!!

Johannes_Paulsen
April 4, 2012, 08:32 PM
Good for Canada. Rights that have been chipped away piece by piece over time may take equally long to restore piecemeal. In the meantime, a win's a win.

Nushif
April 4, 2012, 08:53 PM
Grats! Always good to see the proliferation of privately owned arms. 8)

Vern Humphrey
April 4, 2012, 09:33 PM
So while it may not be the big victory we're now far better off up this way than the poor souls stuck in California....
Do what we do down here -- keep plugging away, and slowly the restrictions will fall.

idcurrie
April 4, 2012, 09:44 PM
I'm a Canadian.

Bill C-68 in 1995 which criminalized the ownership of firearms except with a 5 year license, the registry, and many sections of the bill which violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms CREATED the 'gun lobby' in Canada.

There was none before C68 in 1995 to speak of.

This group of law abiding pissed off Canadians has been growing larger, stronger, and more organized every year.

More political donations organized en masse, more letter writing organized en-masse, marches on Parliament Hill, strategic donating and voting to ridings to ensure anti-gun MPs were not re-elected (mark holland), and creation and funding of two powerful lobby groups have led us to this proud day.

This is just the beginning. The real monster in C68, the criminalization of firearms ownership without a 5 year license needs to go next.

Mark my words: Liberals have pushed us too far! This is just the beginning. Gun control in Canada is coming to an END!

Nushif
April 4, 2012, 10:01 PM
Mark my words: ANTIGUNNERS have pushed us too far!

Fixed that for you.

bergmen
April 4, 2012, 10:07 PM
So while it may not be the big victory we're now far better off up this way than the poor souls stuck in California.... :D

Hardly. We can have handguns with barrels less than 105mm, large capacity magazines for both handguns and semi-automatic centerfire rifles (only the transfer of ownership is prohibited), .25 and .32 caliber handguns, pepper spray, we can defend ourselves with firearms if our lives are in danger in public or in our homes, we need no licenses to purchase any firearm, concealed carry of handguns is "shall issue" in about 41 of the 58 counties, yada, yada, yada.

Plus, we have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms which is non-existant in Canada.

There is more, much more but I would MUCH prefer the gun laws in California to those in Canada, especially my CCW license I have held for the past ten years.

Dan

Pfletch83
April 4, 2012, 10:44 PM
I'm not going to mention the gun laws in KY because it would make too many anti-gunners weep.

Back to the O.T.

Glad to hear that the folks up north are learning how to hold anti-gun politico's feet to the fire.

Keep slugging it out with them and you'll see your freedoms return (Something about anti-gunners and being in a long fight....they don't tend to have the staying power)

usmarine0352_2005
April 5, 2012, 02:40 PM
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The final step in getting rid of the long gun registry is the signature of the Governor General, which was supposed to happen this morning.



It didn't happen, what happened?





Anyone know when it will be signed now?
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idcurrie
April 5, 2012, 02:55 PM
Yes, The MP who introduced the bill says the signing is happening this evening. People just assumed it was this morning.

dak0ta
April 5, 2012, 03:05 PM
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04/05/destruction-of-long-gun-registry-records-halted-at-eleventh-hour-by-quebec-court/

Our Conservative government almost successfully destroyed our long gun registry today, but Quebec halted it at the 11th hour saying that they want to keep Quebec's records on gun owners! Quebec politicians, feminist movements are the main opponents.

Our registry was put in place in 1995 after a shooting spree against women in Quebec by a crazed shooter with a Mini-14 and hi-cap mags. The aftermath was the Liberal government (read 'Lie'beral) requiring registration of all long guns and handguns etc. As well as the 10 shot magazine capacity limit on semi-automatic weapons!!!!

Just remember how good your gun laws are and NEVER ever let such laws be implemented in the US.

smalls
April 5, 2012, 03:13 PM
I don't understand why they won't let Quebec leave.

dak0ta
April 5, 2012, 03:15 PM
If Quebec leaves, our economy may be crippled and the country will be physically be divided in 2. So basically the Cdn government has bowed to all of Quebec's wishes to keep them content.

gfanikf
April 5, 2012, 03:24 PM
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04/05/destruction-of-long-gun-registry-records-halted-at-eleventh-hour-by-quebec-court/

Our Conservative government almost successfully destroyed our long gun registry today, but Quebec halted it at the 11th hour saying that they want to keep Quebec's records on gun owners! Quebec politicians, feminist movements are the main opponents.

Our registry was put in place in 1995 after a shooting spree against women in Quebec by a crazed shooter with a Mini-14 and hi-cap mags. The aftermath was the Liberal government (read 'Lie'beral) requiring registration of all long guns and handguns etc. As well as the 10 shot magazine capacity limit on semi-automatic weapons!!!!

Just remember how good your gun laws are and NEVER ever let such laws be implemented in the US.
Didn't the nitwit who did that try and FA the gun and screw up and make it bolt action? Someone told me that once.

dak0ta
April 5, 2012, 03:40 PM
Mark Lepine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre

usmarine0352_2005
April 5, 2012, 04:14 PM
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So the Governor General is no longer signing it this evening?
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wannabeagunsmith
April 5, 2012, 05:07 PM
Wow! Never thought I would see the day.

Owen
April 5, 2012, 05:26 PM
Mark my words: ANTIGUNNERS have pushed us too far!

Fixed that for you.


Considering that there is an actual Liberal party in Canada, it didn't need to be fixed.

hermannr
April 5, 2012, 07:58 PM
dak0ta, you must live in QB, not AB or BC...AB and BC would love to see QB silde off into the ocean and resurface on the coat of France...let them go.

idcurrie
April 5, 2012, 09:41 PM
Considering that there is an actual Liberal party in Canada, it didn't need to be fixed.

Exactly.

For those not in the know:

For many decades the Liberal party was considered the 'natural governing party' by most Canadians.

When C-68 was introduced by the Liberal Majority Government in 1995 it:

-Made possession of a firearm a criminal offense unless you held a valid license which is only good for 5 years.

-Made possession of a firearm without a valid registration certificate a criminal offense.

-Enacted strict and draconian laws regarding storage of firearms and how they are transported, including requiring special 'authorization to transport' a handgun from point A to point B

-Enabled confiscation without compensation of firearms which were reclassified by bureaucrats without an act of parliament and confiscation without classification upon expiry of license.

-Only permitted to own handgun with 'valid reason' at CFO discretion. Self defense is not allowed as valid reason.

-Allowed 'unconstitutional' searches of the home without permission or warrant because either a)reason to believe 10 or more firearms are present or b)a single restricted firearm (handgun) is present.

-many more bad things


During the 1995 enactment of C-68, the Liberal Majority Government limited debate in Parliament and Senate to the absolute minimum and forced the bills through by having the majority of seat in both.

After great public outcry, marches on parliament hill, Public Safety Minister Alan Rock famously declared THE DEBATE IS OVER! and the bill was passed.






Well, here we are 17 years later. Our new conservative majority government has rammed the new C-19 bill, repealment of the long gun registry, through parliament while limiting debate just like the Liberal Government did in 1995.

Looks like, Mr Rock, the debate was not quite over.


We have won a single victory here. Many parts of C68 are still intact. There's a long way to go!


As a point of interest, before C68 was enacted, the government estimated that there were over 21 million firearms in Canada by import records. This number does not include firearms made domestically such as those by Cooey, Colt, and Lakefield (savage now). That figure also doesn't include all those imported since 1995. At its height, the long gun registry only had a record of 7 million firearms.

That leaves, conservatively, 3/4 of the firearms in the country unregistered in a massive act of civil disobedience by true patriot Canadians against a bad law.

Now that the LGR is toast, those 21million firearms can finally come out of the closet.

Carl N. Brown
April 5, 2012, 09:56 PM
21million firearms can finally come out of the closet.
I thought they had been lost in tragic boating accidents.

dak0ta
April 5, 2012, 10:14 PM
dak0ta, you must live in QB, not AB or BC...AB and BC would love to see QB silde off into the ocean and resurface on the coat of France...let them go.

No I'm actually a Canucks fan :) Habs suck :P

Midwest
April 5, 2012, 10:37 PM
That leaves, conservatively, 3/4 of the firearms in the country unregistered in a massive act of civil disobedience by true patriot Canadians against a bad law.



I am proud of our neighbors to the North.

idcurrie
April 5, 2012, 10:56 PM
In the largest Canadian Gun Form, there are many people now openly admitting to having many unregistered firearms and are going to retrieve them from where they are stored tomorrow.

Incredible, 24 hours ago, they would be facing jail time...

usmarine0352_2005
April 6, 2012, 01:56 AM
Idcurrie: looks like the long gun registry and registration is still in full effect until decided by a judge because injunction.

Carl N. Brown
April 6, 2012, 06:18 AM
Last I heard, a judge has blocked destruction of long gun records for Quebec.

The long gun registry has cost 2.7 billion dollars (when it was supposed to cost a fraction of that); has provided corroborating evidence in 3 cases in 17 years (after suspect, motive and opportunity had already be established); and for 2.7 billion over 17 years, Canada could have had 2,300 full time additional police officers (John Lott projects that would have deterred 34,000 violent crimes).

Quebec wants to preserve the registry for the province of Quebec while federal wants rid of the white elephant. Nobody can project a number of crimes deterred by the registry because belief in gun registration is simply an article of secular faith with true doctrinaire liberals that cannot be proven like all "true" religious dogmas. $2.7 billion to provide unneeded corroborating evidence in 3 cases makes no economic sense.

The international gun control movement has had two dogmas fall:
o No Canada gun law has ever been repealed.
o No US gun law has ever been declared unconstitutional under the Second Amendment.
That has happened: but they are in denial.

We should not give up our faith, for verily our opposition will not abandon theirs.

sailorjosh
April 6, 2012, 11:24 AM
Idcurrie: looks like the long gun registry and registration is still in full effect until decided by a judge because injunction.

Only in Quebec. It is totally dead everywhere else in Canada. Quebec won't get the data anyways, it's just political posturing.

usmarine0352_2005
April 6, 2012, 12:53 PM
Only in Quebec. It is totally dead everywhere else in Canada. Quebec won't get the data anyways, it's just political posturing.


Really? I didn't read that it was only in Quebec.




Why do you think Quebec won't get the data?
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sailorjosh
April 6, 2012, 03:44 PM
Really? I didn't read that it was only in Quebec.




Why do you think Quebec won't get the data?
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Yeah the new law is in effect everywhere else in Canada, I spoke to the Firearms Center yesterday, there is also a notice on the CFC website here -
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/index-eng.htm

I am not a law expert, but the general consensus I have been hearing and reading from people who are is that Quebec has no case and almost certainly knows it. The data was collected for a specific purpose (a federal firearms registry) and Quebec has no right to it, as well as the fact that firearms laws are federal juristiction and even if Quebec did start a new registry from scratch (which they are completely entitled to do) it would simply be a property registry and couldn't have criminal charges attached. A fine for not registering a gun? It would have even less compliance than the registry we just killed. Not to mention Quebec's 150 billion dollar or so debt, and all the logistical problems that go with being the only province with a registry. Here's a quote I found -

But Stephen Scott, a McGill University emeritus law professor, says that while he considers it "irresponsible and unfortunate" of the Harper government to abolish the gun registry, on first glance he doesnít think Quebec has a case.

"I doubt it has any legs," Scott said, explaining that the registry was created by Parliament, using federal funds, describing Fournierís case against Bill C-19 as "pretty abstruse and a little far-fetched."

Badlander
April 6, 2012, 04:29 PM
Congrats on A big step forward!!!

usmarine0352_2005
April 6, 2012, 04:55 PM
Yeah the new law is in effect everywhere else in Canada, I spoke to the Firearms Center yesterday, there is also a notice on the CFC website here -
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/index-eng.htm

I am not a law expert, but the general consensus I have been hearing and reading from people who are is that Quebec has no case and almost certainly knows it. The data was collected for a specific purpose (a federal firearms registry) and Quebec has no right to it, as well as the fact that firearms laws are federal juristiction and even if Quebec did start a new registry from scratch (which they are completely entitled to do) it would simply be a property registry and couldn't have criminal charges attached. A fine for not registering a gun? It would have even less compliance than the registry we just killed. Not to mention Quebec's 150 billion dollar or so debt, and all the logistical problems that go with being the only province with a registry. Here's a quote I found -



So all firearm laws are Federal? So Quebec cannot make firearms laws?


Also, Quebec can make their own registry, but they cannot attach any criminal charges to it, why is that? Because only the Federal government can make gun laws?
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idcurrie
April 6, 2012, 05:56 PM
Idcurrie: looks like the long gun registry and registration is still in full effect until decided by a judge because injunction.

You're mistaken. The Canadian Firearms Centre is no longer accepting or processing registrations or transfers for anyone in Canada except those in Quebec. The injunction only applies to the province of Quebec. You can read about it on their website if you wish...

usmarine:

Here's the skinny: When C-68 was instituted in 1995, the province of Alberta wanted to abstain and challenged the implementation of the law in their province all the way up to the Supreme Court. They lost. The court ruled that Criminal Law regarding firearms is Federal Jurisdiction and as such Alberta has had to comply with C68 since 1995.

Now, the shoe is on the other foot. Quebec is saying they want a provincial firearms registry and have challenged the implementation of C-19 in their province. Too bad for them, this jurisdiction has already been established by the supreme court ruling.

Quebec wants the Federal Government to hand over existing registry on its citizens and the injunction means that they must continue to process transfers and new registration until this ruled upon or the data would become invalid 10 minutes after they stopped doing such.

Also unfortunate for Quebec, the Privacy Act expressly forbids the Federal Government from giving information to any other agency or person or for that data to be used for any purpose than for which it was expressly collected. In short, it's illegal for the federal gov't to give the registry data to Quebec since that's not the original purpose the data was collected for.

Quebec does have rights to administer registration of PROPERTY in their province. So they can create a provincial firearms registry from scratch if they want. The problem is they can't make it a crime not to comply or to have unregistered guns. At best, they can apply a small fine. The cost of doing such would be astronomical and compliance would be near zero from people who were burned by the federal registry already. With no criminal penalty, compliance would be nill. Consider that compliance was already 1 in 4 when there were severe criminal penalties for non compliance.

The Quebec government is only posturing. They know that they can't win but they are doing everything they can in order to satiate their constituents.

You see, the reason behind C68 and all of this draconian gun control was a massacre at a school that took place in the province of Quebec.

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