Y'all learn from my mistake


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toolslinger
April 4, 2012, 07:39 PM
Buyer beware from Cabela's.
So I have ordered black powder stuff from Cabela's before , no problem. Well this time I decided I needed a .54 cal rifle since they were on sale and had a free shipping offer.
Whoops, the barrel will not come close to fitting the channel in the stock.
Well heck it came with a free return lable so rather than modify a brand new gun I just packed her back up and prepared to ship it back for an exchange.
I did not order a kit gun.
Just to cover my bases I checked the return policy on the website. Dang I wish I had done that BEFORE ordering.:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Heck though , I have bought several pistols and accessories before and never a had a problem.
Well sure enough I called customer service and they said that I ,in fact, could not return the dang thing.
So now I am out the money spent for a ready to go rifle and I basically have a frikken kit gun.
Now I am handy and about a half arsed amateur gunsmith. I have built up sporterized old military guns to the point of building my own stocks from scratch but that ain't the point.
If I had known I was going to have to fit the dang stock I would have just got a kit gun and saved a couple hundred dollars:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
So from now on when I order me a smokepole through the mail I'll know the return policy.
And yes I know I am kinda dumb:o

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Plastikosmd
April 4, 2012, 07:42 PM
hard to believe they wont allow a refund on an unsafe or non-functional product. It is not 'free from defect'

I would be goin higher up the chain with them

4v50 Gary
April 4, 2012, 07:49 PM
Find yourself some who can fit/build it for you. You can take a kit assembly class.

toolslinger
April 4, 2012, 07:52 PM
Yeah it was pretty much my bad. One of the things you can click on on the website is their return policy. I just read it cause I needed to return the dang thing. It clearly states that you cannot return firearms, powder ,primer and such.
I should have known that before I dropped the cash:banghead::o
I just ASSUMED:evil: that since I had not had a problem before I would not receive a defective product this time.
Of course ,I have never bought an Investarms before. Don't know whether to be more pissed off at myself , Cabelas ,or Investarms:cuss:

MCgunner
April 4, 2012, 08:28 PM
Only problem I've ever had with 'em is they keep putting guns I've been wanting on sale at ridiculously low pricing and I just can't say no sometimes.

toolslinger
April 4, 2012, 08:38 PM
Well, tomorrow , when I am less full of being upset ( and beer) I will take some before and in progress pics of the barrel fitting.:scrutiny:

toolslinger
April 4, 2012, 08:51 PM
Oh yeah, since the jerk offs don't include a set o takedown instructions someone please give me a link to a complete disassembly /tuning thread/ video for an Investarms .54 Hawken? with double set triggers.
I am going to strip her down to components to do an initial clean and lube before firing anyway but if anyone has a convenient link so I don't have to go searching it would be nifty.

rdstrain49
April 4, 2012, 10:32 PM
Our local Cabelas does not consider BP to be firearms, and they can be returned. I know that for certain, I've done it. Good luck

BE Wild Willy
April 4, 2012, 11:03 PM
I live near a Cabelas and purchased a used target pistol (smokeless) through them. After getting it home I noticed the the barrel was slightly loose (High Standard take-down). I went back to Cabelas and they offered to have their gunsmith fix it. I was hesitant to have a Yugo mechanic work on a Ferrari so I asked them if I could have my smith fix it. They reimbursed me the repair amount, only thing I had to eat was my shipping costs to the smith (Bob Shea) that I had do the work. I would have to think that Cabelas would make it right.

arcticap
April 5, 2012, 12:35 AM
I recently asked a firearm's department salesperson at my local Cabela's store about whether their [used] firearms had any warranty and he said that each used firearm is guaranteed to function for 30 days or else they will fix it or pay to have it fixed.
I got off the phone just now after speaking with the Cabela's telephone sales representative.
At first she told me that there were no returns.
But after specifically asking her about a defective Cabela's Hawken, she told me that anyone who receives a defective black powder gun needs to contact customer service, and that they will handle any request to return it on an individual basis.
This sounds like a new policy shift to cut down on the number of automatic returns of black powder guns.
Let us know how it works out after you contact the Cabela's customer service department about the defective rifle.

chute2thrill
April 5, 2012, 12:41 AM
+1 to what rdstrain49 said. BP firearms are not considered (firearms), and cabelas will take returns on BP guns. Plenty of people on here have done it..

arcticap
April 5, 2012, 01:00 AM
A company's return policies can change if they choose to make it based on the reason for the return.
Cabela's can decide that since some gun makers warranty their own guns, and have a repair facility right here in the USA, that they can fix them for free without the need to return it to Cabela's at all.
For instance, Uberti, Traditions, Thompson Center and CVA all have their own repair facilities that could be liable to fix them.
However I'm not sure if there is an authorized repair facility for Cabela's branded guns or for the Pietta's that they sell.
So granting a return authorization may now be based on the reason for it which could possibly be more strict than previously.
I did get that impression from the conversation that I had with the telephone sales representative.

BCRider
April 5, 2012, 01:47 AM
Toolslinger, are you looking to return it for a refund or for an exchange with a properley fitted and assembled gun? I can see where they might refuse returns based on whims of change but you got a DEFECTIVE gun. They should be willing to honor a return for the purpose of exchanging for one which is put together to the sort of standards expected from the retail price of the darn thing.

Obviously you're not expecting Holland & Holland sort of quality. But it's not at all unreasonable to expect a quality level that allows proper assembly and shootability.

alsask
April 5, 2012, 02:18 AM
Lyman and Investarms are almost identical. The Lyman site has takedown instructions.

If the barrel does not drop in easily there is a good chance the tang screw is too tight and pulling the tang down too far. I have seen this more than once with Lyman/Investarm guns.

They inlet the tang too deep and when they assemble the gun parts the tang is screwed in too deep. If they were to install the barrel before shipping they would notice the error.

toolslinger
April 5, 2012, 09:46 AM
Thanks all y'all. I did call customer service and was told that regrettably there was no return on the rifle. I will check out the Lyman site for the takedown instructions.
It is not the tang being too deep. The barrel immediately starts shaving wood when trying to pivot it into the channel in the stock.
When you place the barrel on the stock without engaging the tang hook it is obvious that the channel is too small the entire length of the inletting.

BCRider
April 5, 2012, 01:27 PM
Like I said, a DEFECTIVE gun.

If Cabela's won't exchange it what about sending it off to Investarms under their factory warranty? Seems like SOMEONE should stand behind what they are selling.

arcticap
April 5, 2012, 02:19 PM
This is bad news for anyone who buys a black powder gun from Cabela's that could be defective and is made by a company that doesn't have a U.S. repair facility.
Perhaps in the past, too many people have ordered guns from Cabela's, fired them and then returned them under their formerly liberal return policy.
And maybe Cabela's has gotten stuck with too many defective revolvers when they received a bad batch and many were returned by customers.
Some folks may not want to take the risk of getting stuck with a defective black powder gun that was purchased by mail order, especially considering Cabela's new higher prices. :rolleyes:

toolslinger
April 5, 2012, 03:43 PM
Yeah well I wanted the gun and I don't want to have to try to send it back to investarms so I am going to fix it myself.:scrutiny:
I have spent the day with 60 and 100 grit sandpaper wrapped around various shaped mandrels fitting the stock and have discovered some lovely problems.
The tang and barrel were inletted at an angle to each other and or the forend is warped .:banghead:
As I was carefully sanding, fitting, sanding, repeat I noted the lovely cracks in the web of wood between the barrel tang channel and the inletting for the lock:banghead:
So I have the barrel /tang sanded to a hard press fit but the release agent is drying so I can glassbed them in to fix the cracks:eek:
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh50/sotoolslinger/IMG_4142.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh50/sotoolslinger/IMG_4143.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh50/sotoolslinger/IMG_4144.jpg

BE Wild Willy
April 5, 2012, 09:39 PM
I would be pissed...

FreddyKruger
April 5, 2012, 10:33 PM
its good that youre having a go at fixing it yourself, if it works youll love the gun even more!

I know over here, even if a business states that they dont do refunds, they dont actually get a choice if the product is defective, doesnt do what it was advertised to do etc etc

blarby
April 5, 2012, 10:54 PM
Welcome to Cabelas phone CS.

I hope you get your situation figured out.

They may or may not accept returns on BP weapons, I do not know. The answer you got would depend on who you got on the phone... and would probably be wrong anyway- regardless of the answer.

Their phone/internet CS is so great, I wouldn't give them a bent nickel ever, ever again.

Beagle333
April 6, 2012, 01:12 AM
I sent a Pietta back about a month ago because the triggerguard was installed slightly crooked and I didn't want to do any work on a new pistol, and they gladly and promptly sent a new pistol. I know they didn't just screw it down straight and send it back, because I told them I decided I wanted a .44 instead of the .36 anyway and they swapped it out and sent the new one with a check for the difference in the two pistols. Fast too.

(It wasn't just an exchange, they were made aware that the first one was defective)

alsaqr
April 6, 2012, 09:32 AM
i returned a muzzleloader to Cabela's and got a refund. It was a CVA inline. The gun had been fired: The bore was dark and pitted.

toolslinger
April 6, 2012, 04:58 PM
Well heck I am glad other folk have had better luck than I have. But it don't really matter since it's fixed now.

black_powder_Rob
April 7, 2012, 12:21 AM
Glade to hear you got it refined up, sorry to hear about the negative experience. Any pics of the finished project?

toolslinger
April 7, 2012, 10:42 AM
Here are a couple pics
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh50/sotoolslinger/slinger/IMG_4146.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh50/sotoolslinger/slinger/IMG_4147.jpg
She's not quite finished yet:evil:
I want to make a leather cover for the recoil pad to take the modern stink off her.
I would also like to change the rear sight to peep any suggestions as to style /model?
Also I like practicality so the sling swivels will probably stay. Any info on how historically correct slings were?
And of course I have to go get her dirty.

mykeal
April 7, 2012, 12:38 PM
Swivels are not HC. Slings, however, are. Here's an example from Track of the Wolf:
Slings without swivels (http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/55/1/SLING-LACE-S)

toolslinger
April 7, 2012, 03:13 PM
Cool. Yeah I didn't figure Uncle Mikes started in the early 1800's:neener:

arcticap
April 7, 2012, 03:21 PM
Any info on how historically correct slings were?

The 1863 Springfield had sling swivels. One was located at the front of the trigger guard and the other was on the 2nd barrel band.

http://www.gunlistings.org/uploads/1_rifles_springfield_replica_1863_navy_arms_45008.jpg

http://tangoyankee.com/sold/10-10-06_02/DSCN02120044.JPG

mykeal
April 7, 2012, 04:12 PM
The plains style rifle, which he has, significantly predates the 1863 Springfield.

BHP FAN
April 7, 2012, 04:41 PM
sure, but in the Late Unpleasantness a lot of rifles were altered by the Confederates to mil-spec by the addition of sling swivels, etc. In my Confederate Arms book I've even seen a double barrel shotgun with a bayonet!

arcticap
April 7, 2012, 05:11 PM
Apparently, some muskets had sling swivels before the plains rifle was ever invented.
Among the guns on the following page is an 18/19th Century Indian Torador Matchlock Musket with no restoration of any kind and it clearly has a sling swivel. And there are also other earlier made guns on the same page that have them including a flintlock from 1798. Since sling swivels were known to exist, a gun maker could have built an individual gun having any feature of his choosing.

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/RiflesAntiqueFlintlock.html

BHP FAN
April 7, 2012, 06:44 PM
It looks like it may have a rubber shotgun style recoil pad [hard to tell in the photo] if it does, even I'd be hard pressed to come up with an explanation of a Pachmeyer pad on a period piece. Still, very practical.

toolslinger
April 7, 2012, 06:59 PM
Yeah, well , I plan on putting a leather cover over the recoil pad (to take the modern stink off it) I might as well incorporate a sling on there while I am doing it:scrutiny:
Of course I also plan on adding a peep sight to her and the only ones I have been able to find have been been nifty and functional (Williams or Lyman) but it seems weird to me that no one makes a tang sight that just replaces the existing screws gives you a nice adjustable apature sight .

BHP FAN
April 7, 2012, 07:20 PM
you'd think someone would. anyways, nice hunting rig!

mykeal
April 7, 2012, 09:57 PM
Among the guns on the following page is an 18/19th Century Indian Torador Matchlock Musket with no restoration of any kind and it clearly has a sling swivel. And there are also other earlier made guns on the same page that have them including a flintlock from 1798.
Good info. Thanks.

Ryden
April 13, 2012, 10:30 AM
Even the venerable old Brown Bess had sling swivels as seen here.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_59GYpEVAu0U/TFj-EwruoGI/AAAAAAAAAWw/oxAmdav9-PE/s1600/brown-bess.jpg

I have a hunting rifle made from a military gun and the trigger guard sling swivel is removed and a large headed screw with some engraving is fitted to the stock in the same position as a modern sling swivel and the sling has a "button hole" in it.
http://i39.tinypic.com/14lt2k2.jpg

This is undoubtedly HC from the 1870's if you want to use it.
The front swivel is the standard military variant.

I can't believe you where not allowed to return a faulty product!
File a charge for fraud, you payed up and didn't get what you paid for.

4v50 Gary
April 13, 2012, 10:35 AM
Military guns have slings. The Ferguson rifle, the Baker and military Jagers had slings. The civilian guns could or could not, depending on the owner's taste and pocketbook.

toolslinger
April 14, 2012, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the info y'all.
Also see here
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=654243
Since I got her fixed up anyway I am no longer worried about Cabelas.

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