Bidgunner.com


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rm23
April 4, 2012, 08:42 PM
I just got an email two hours ago from budsgunshop.com.

Budsgunshop.com announces the launch of Bidgunner.com


Budsgunshop.com is pleased to announce the site launch of one of our friends and partners –Bidgunner.com. Bidgunner.com is a new online penny auction site featuring guns and gear at savings of up to 90% off retail prices. Want to see how you can buy a $400 gun for only $25? Then check out this short How-it-Works video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mhM11nRPv8

Bidgunner.com will begin live auctions on April 12th, 2012 so REGISTER NOW to be ready for the huge deals starting soon. Enter Coupon Code BUDS for free bids – an exclusiv e offer to Budsgunshop.com customers.

Bidgunner.com is a licensed gun dealer and auction company based in Atlanta, Georgia. Our staff is ready to answer questions and get you prepared for the fantastic deals coming your way. Please contact customer support with questions via support@bidgunner.com. We sincerely hope you enjoy this exciting new way to shop for guns and gear.

Now, what are you gunning for?

-Team Bidgunner

www.bidgunner.com

Like us on Facebook for exclusive offers, tips, and other freebies. https://www.facebook.com/Bidgunner.com


If anyone is not familiar with the pay-per-bid online auctions, you buy chances to bid on auction items for $0.03-0.05. The items may start out very cheap (ex: $1 for a Colt 6920). The problem is that you'll get into a bidding war with many users that can last 20,000 bids, only to have the price be at the normal retail price. You also never know when you're in a bidding war with a computer who won't allow the item to sell below reserve.

These scams have been around on the internet for a while (quibids). I'm just surprised that a well-known business would stoop to this level with this type of service. Unless you love to throw away money, avoid this.

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TurtlePhish
April 4, 2012, 08:45 PM
Yeah, gonna stick with Gunbroker...

sammyspizza
April 4, 2012, 09:16 PM
I got the email as well, and I was thinking the same thing.

tyeo098
April 4, 2012, 09:43 PM
The mods needs to start having canned responses for threads like these.

JohnBT
April 4, 2012, 10:02 PM
"penny auction site"

They did what?

dogtown tom
April 4, 2012, 10:39 PM
I got that email from Bud's today.

I sent them an email expressing my displeasure that they would associate themselves with a penny auction site.

Penny "auctions" aren't auctions any more than a slot machine is an ATM.

It's gambling, period.

Atom Smasher
April 5, 2012, 05:08 PM
Yeah, for those who don't know, it isn't like Ebay where if you don't win the item you don't pay. With penny auctions, you're actually paying 1-2 cents per bid, and if you don't win then tough, because you've already put all that money down. It really is gambling.

Jorg Nysgerrig
April 5, 2012, 05:29 PM
There was a discussion of a similar one called guns4pennies or something a bit back. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=620354

It might provide some insight on how this kind of thing works.

The real winners are those selling the guns.

dampoo
April 5, 2012, 05:54 PM
Here is an interesting article on these type of auctions:

This an article on these auctions from Smartmoney.com.




URL for this article:
http://www.smartmoney.com/spending/d...kontheStreet_t

This is an issued for all of these pay per bid sites.

Bubbles
April 5, 2012, 06:19 PM
The real winners are those selling the guns.
I thought with these auctions the sellers only received the final value bid, while the auction site received the money for the bids made. So, the auction site could end up making more than the actual seller on the transaction.

Now, if the "auctioneer" is also the FFL then yeah, they'll really make a killing on the sale.

dogtown tom
April 5, 2012, 07:03 PM
To further clarify our email and facebook post on bidgunner.com....

The only affiliation that we have with bidgunner is that we are the sole supplier of the guns being auctioned. We are receiving NO money on bids that are purchased or traffic sent to their website. Bidgunner is purchasing the guns from us at our regular price before the auctions start. We are holding these firearm and shipping them to the FFL dealer chosen by the winner of the auction. We have been working with the owners of bidgunner of nearly a year and are confident that the site is NOT a scam. They a licensed in all 50 states.

We realize that penny auctions are not for everyone. There are plenty of legal activity that not everyone chooses to participate in. I personally think raffles, extended warrenties, $100 steak dinners, or $5000 watches are a waste of money but many people see value in these things and buy them. Plain and simple... A few lucky people will end up with a brand new gun for next to nothing. Most people that buy bids will NOT win. People that don't win can apply a substantiation portion of the money spent on bids for an auction toward purchasing the gun in that auction. Even those that don't win will not necessary walk away with nothing.

For those of you that do place bids you can do so knowing that if you win the gun will ship to you from us in a timely manner.

:rolleyes:

AK47TIM
April 5, 2012, 07:36 PM
I was kind of disappointed as well seeing them associate with this site.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

45_auto
April 5, 2012, 07:46 PM
You guys don't think Bud's should sell guns to bidgunner????

What other businesses, races, religions, or whatever that can legally purchase firearms do you think that Bud's should not sell to?

The people buying guns on bidgunner probably think that Bud's ought not to be selling guns to you guys .......

rm23
April 5, 2012, 07:59 PM
45_auto, I think this one went way over your head.

nofishbob
April 5, 2012, 08:01 PM
I don't care who Bud's sells to.

Bud's was unclear (deceptive?) in their original e-mail, calling Bidgunner their "friends and partner". It was easy to assume that there was a business relationship between Bud's and Bidgunner. This lowered my (very high) opinion of Bud's.

Bud's second e-mail distances them from Bidgunner, clarifying that they are just selling guns to them at regular prices. Quite a difference from the first e-mail in my opinion.

My guess is that negative feedback was pouring in.

Its nice to know that as a regular Bud's customer, they must consider me their partner, too.

Penny auctions are gambling, not auctions.

Bob

Jorg Nysgerrig
April 5, 2012, 08:18 PM
URL for this article:
http://www.smartmoney.com/spending/d...kontheStreet_t
http://www.smartmoney.com/spend/family-money/how-penny-auctions-work-1300313918147/

I thought with these auctions the sellers only received the final value bid, while the auction site received the money for the bids made. So, the auction site could end up making more than the actual seller on the transaction.

Now, if the "auctioneer" is also the FFL then yeah, they'll really make a killing on the sale.
The latter is closer to the situation in every penny-auction I've seen. Unlike eBay, the public at large can't list items, just the site itself. You may notice the gunbidder.com site says nothing about selling.

As you saw in dogtown tom's post (posted after yours, of course), bidgunner is the purchaser of the guns from Bud's. As with most sites of this nature, the auction isn't a service brokering a deal between buyers and sellers, the auction is actually an interface to a retail site.

You guys don't think Bud's should sell guns to bidgunner????
I missed where anyone said that. I think people might be disappointed that Bud's is associated that Bud's was promoting this kind of site.


Just a quick review of how this sort of site works vs a regular auction.

Regular auction:

Seller lists something with the commitment to sell to highest bid.
Auction service facilitates auction, taking a cut.
Buyers make offers at no costs, with the commitment to buy if their bid is the highest.

Simplified example:
Seller lists for Glock 20 starting at $350.
Bidders bid in whatever increment they want, bids costs nothing. Auction ends at a certain time (or so long after the last bid, depending on the format).
Let's say 20 people bid on the Glock 20 and the price ends at $550. 19 of those people have not incurred a cost, 1 now owes the seller $550.
Seller owes auction service a fee, say %5. Seller pays auction site $27.50.

Final score:
Winning bidder gets Glock 20 for $550 + shipping or whatever.
Seller gets $527.50
Auction site gets: $27.50

-----------

Penny auction:
Seller and auction service are same entity.
Bidders buy bids to make offers on item. Item goes to highest bidder.

Simplified example:

Simplified example:
Seller lists for Glock 20 starting at $.01.
Bidders bid in penny increments, bids costs a certain amount (based on video, about $.60). Auction is extended after each bid.
Let's say 20 people bid on the Glock 20 and the price ends at $59 (90% of retail!). Assuming bids are distributed evenly, 19 spent $177 (265 bids @ $60) to bid. The winner paid $236 for his Glock 20.

Final score:
Winning bidder gets Glock 20 for $236+ shipping or whatever.
19 non-winning bidders paid $177 each.
Seller / Auction site gets: $3776


It appears that gunbidder lets you apply your bid price to buying the item at the retail value. So, if you were one of bidders who didn't win, you could opt to buy the Glock 20 (likely at the full retail price of $590), applying the $177 you already spent to it. Sunk costs and all.

One of the keys to these sites is they spread it out among lots of bidders, so you have instead of having 20 bidders on an item, you have 200 or 2000 to spread out the cost.

In the end, if people understand what they are getting into, whatever. I just think it is important that people know how they work and really don't think that every gets to walk way with a Glock for $59.

daehawc
April 5, 2012, 08:44 PM
I really dont see any problem with it. Like any other auction/gambling site the consumer knows what they are getting into. Penny auctions have been around long enough for people to know what the risks are. If you win you do save a substantial amount of money.

Now if the site is using bots to artifically drive up the auctions thats a completely different matter. I think it may be presumtive to say that they WILL be doing illegal/immoral actions as they are a brand new site.

As for buds affiliation, they are a business trying to make money in a down economy. Good on them. The more volume they sell the cheaper prices can be for all of us.

The fact that you can apply a portion of your losing bids toward purchasing the firearm seems to be a honest practice that limits the gambling aspect and then you are just buying it at a price likely slightly inflated from just ordering from Buds.

Acera
April 5, 2012, 08:59 PM
Found a closed auction that seems to actually gone to a person. A bunch were on there with a single bid, hope that was some of you guys, LOL.

Beretta CX-4 Carbine, 9mm. $915 Retail Price (Which Buds shows as out of stock , and no price. Impact guns lists theirs for $862.99)

Sold for $35.45

At $.65 a bid: 3545 x .65 = $2,304.25 worth of bids were placed
(That is the cheapest bid price possible, which is probably not the case on all of them, the bids range in price from .65-.90 depending on the number you buy.)

$2,304.25 + $35.45 = $2,339.70 is what they got for that gun.

End Result, they profited by selling a gun for 2 1/2 times retail value, someone got a heck of a deal for less than $40, bunch of folks spent a total of $2,300+ and got nothing.


I am real leery of these sites, especially when some items go real cheap. Just don't trust the folks running the auction to not use their own bids to run the price up, or "win" an auction to prevent a loss.

However, I hope some of these are actually being won by legitimate individuals.

Some new observations. Currently a $35 tomahawk is sitting at $.74, that means they already have made almost $50, or $15 above retail made on that one, and it still has a week to go higher.

These are over a week long auctions, not like the other sites which run theirs for less than a day. I bet we see some real stupid profits by them on these items. Don't see myself ever buying any bids and getting more involved.

45_auto
April 5, 2012, 09:12 PM
End Result, they profited by selling a gun for 2 1/2 times retail value, someone got a heck of a deal for less than $40, bunch of folks spent a total of $2,300+ and got nothing.

Kind of works the same way with lotterys, penny auction sites, or any other form of gambling. Lots of people put up a lot of money (640 million in the Megamillions last week - over HALF A BILLION dollars) and only a few win anything - 3 tickets split the 640 million.

If you don't like it, you don't have to play. But if other people want to, why should it bother anyone how much the site makes on their merchandise or who they buy it from?

Is everyone just jealous that someone got a killer deal on a nice gun?

TheDriver
April 5, 2012, 09:20 PM
It's hilarious to me that the .gov says I can bid on penny auctions, but I CANNOT EVER gamble online on sports or poker.

It's an absurd distinction.

Acera
April 5, 2012, 09:21 PM
My point is everyone that wants to play, should have a complete understanding of the way it works and goes into it with their eyes wide open.

I have no problem with the business model, it works. Skorit, QuiBids, etc are doing well at it.

Saakee
April 5, 2012, 09:23 PM
I had actually been talking over starting a site like this with some acquaintances. We'll probably still be in talks about it, even with an announcement like this once we meet up again.

JohnBT
April 5, 2012, 10:39 PM
"Is everyone just jealous that someone got a killer deal on a nice gun? "

It's not an auction. Every kind of auction I've ever heard of only costs the winner money, not the losing bidders. Gambling on line is against the law in the U.S. Oh, and some other stuff I'm too lazy to type.

Jealous? No, I think not.

Got any more guesses you'd like to throw out. I need another laugh. What's the name of your penny auction site?

45_auto
April 6, 2012, 07:06 AM
Kind of works the same way with lotterys, penny auction sites, or any other form of gambling.

It's not an auction.

Really? I copied the first sentence from my Post 19 for you.

I'm thinking of starting a site called "Reading Comprehension.com". Seems like lots of posters have a problem with that!

Gambling on line is against the law in the U.S.

I can't go to "Lottery Universe" (http://www.lotteryuniverse.com/) and buy all the lottery tickets I want?

Maybe you can put on your "internet police" hat and tell the the U.S. government about that site! You may get a big enough reward to win you something in a penny lottery!! :D

Elkins45
April 6, 2012, 07:18 AM
What other businesses, races, religions, or whatever that can legally purchase firearms do you think that Bud's should not sell to?


That's quite a leap there.

I'm a little disappointed that Bud has decided to associate himself with a penny auction site. I still think he's a good guy but I think even good guys make bad decisions sometimes.

I would be disappointed with my favorite stationary supplier if I found out he was selling letterhead to the Brady Campaign. Neither enterprise is illegal, but I find both distasteful.

45_auto
April 6, 2012, 08:11 AM
I would be disappointed with my favorite stationary supplier if I found out he was selling letterhead to the Brady Campaign.

Nothing wrong with that, luckily it's still a free country.

Neither enterprise is illegal, but I find both distasteful.

If enough people felt the way you do and used their freedom of choice to buy stationary elsewhere, he would either stop selling to the Brady Campaign or go out of business. Feel free to do the same with Bud's.

I'm sure that the Brady bunch is disappointed that people are selling you guns. If enough of the population feels that way, they'll get people to stop selling you guns. I personally believe that it's in our best interests to promote as many legal gun sales as possible. If people want to waste their money trying to buy them through penny auctions, that's their choice.

beatledog7
April 6, 2012, 08:16 AM
I don't support penny auction sites with my dollars, but I support their right to exist within applicable laws. I do at times support Bud's with my dollars, and I support their decision to do business with any and all legal buyers of its products.

The Hess station where I buy gasoline (at consistently the lowest price in the area) sells gasoline to whomever rolls up to the pump with cash or a credit card. Can anyone think of a reason why it should not?

45_auto
April 6, 2012, 08:21 AM
I don't support penny auction sites with my dollars, but I support their right to exist within applicable laws. I do at times support Bud's with my dollars, and I support their decision to do business with any and all legal buyers of its products.

Well said, Beatledog7!

JohnBT
April 6, 2012, 09:33 AM
I don't support penny auctions or payday lenders with my dollars because they're both real good ways to waste money. It's a shame some people feel a need to deal with them. But then again, some people spend hundreds of dollars on lottery tickets thinking it's a smart way to get ahead.

But maybe they saved a lot of money shopping at the Hess station. I'm still trying to figure out why Hess got dragged into this discussion.

John

Elkins45
April 6, 2012, 10:08 AM
I personally believe that it's in our best interests to promote as many legal gun sales as possible. If people want to waste their money trying to buy them through penny auctions, that's their choice.

Of course it's their choice, but it's not a smart one. I'm not advocating for banning these types of sites, but I do think they do the firearms community a disservice by giving the less informed a new place to throw their money away.

Besides, I reject your premise that this will cause MORE guns to be sold. I can't see someone who wasn't previously in the market for a gun stumbling across Bidgunner.com by accident and saying to himself "Hey, never thought about buying a gun before....think I'll sign up on this penny auction site!". In fact, I predict widespread acceptance of such sites will LOWER the amount of guns sold. Think about it: all the losing bidders who spend money on buying 'bid credits' could otherwise have spent that money buying their own guns.

mgmorden
April 6, 2012, 11:31 AM
You guys don't think Bud's should sell guns to bidgunner????

I don't think it's a matter of them selling the guns - it's that they're promoting it.

If you told me that Sarah Brady herself walked into Buds and they willingly sold her a gun I wouldn't care - she's a customer, they're a business.

If they posted an article to Facebook stating that they are now the sole supplier of firearms to their "friend and partner" Sarah Brady then that would be a completely different matter.

Penny auction sites are largely a scam that prey upon those too foolish to understand them. I prefer to see business flourish based on mutual gain on behalf of both the seller and customer. They aren't illegal, but they certainly are SHADY, and I must say that I'm dissappointed to see Bud's associate themselves with this. I'll also say that just as it's their legal decision to support this, it's my legal decision to not purchase from them as long as they continue promoting this (note that I say promoting - I don't care if they sell them guns - just don't put up articles, banners, or other ads for the site or I consider them doing a lot more than just selling them guns). I'm just as happy to buy from CDNN or CheaperThanDirt or any of the many other online retailers.

Joshua M. Smith
April 6, 2012, 01:25 PM
Hello,

I sent the following:

Hello,

I just signed up figuring a prominent business such as yours would have only used a good outlet for its products. Say, a traditional online auction such as Gunbroker would have been an excellent idea!

I looked forward to buying and selling.

Imagine my disappointment when I learned that this is a penny “auction”. I would not have thought this of your business. Smith-Sights will not be participating in any scams such as this, and I sincerely hope you rethink your position as well. The gun community at large is similarly shocked.

I very much hope you don’t lose business due to this new endeavor, but fear you may.

Regards,

http://www.smith-sights.com/resources/new_sig2.jpg


I put the business behind this. I feel that strongly against penny "auctions" -- and I do have some experience with them.

You are gambling on a chance to win. It's really no more than a raffle and should be promoted as such. As is, penny auctions screw people. That's really the long and short of it.

I signed up to see exactly what it was. Figured maybe it was different. I just couldn't see Bud's going with a traditional penny raffle.

I was disappointed.

I don't tell folks how to run their businesses. That's unethical in my view. However, I will not be participating in the scam nor will I be doing any further business with Bud's so long as they're affiliated in any way with penny scams.

Pay your money, get the product. Don't use any service that confuses the elderly, gullible, or the young. It's honest and straightforward. Deal with your customers one-on-one, no matter how much time that may take. It takes honest sweat to do this, but if you have any morals at all you feel better at the end of the day.

Sorry for my rant, folks. Just something I feel very strongly about.

Regards,

Josh

mrvco
April 6, 2012, 03:15 PM
None of the 1-bid winners need be legitimate auctions, they can be outright fakes, "won" by shill-bidders or whatever. However, a big part of the business model (and marketing budget) for these sites is letting some amazing deals go when they get are getting started so "regular folks" will "win", chat up the site on Internet Message Boards such as this one and generate the volume of bidders required for these clowns to become profitable.

Bud's can do whatever they want, but associating themselves with such sleazy operations that prey on the weak-minded can't be good for their reputation in the long run.

Jeremiah10:23
April 6, 2012, 03:23 PM
I am just glad that someone put this on here. I have seen penny auctions and never would do anything with them because I did not understand how they worked.

I was always taught "if it seems to good to be true...it usually is not true."

needmorecowbell
April 6, 2012, 03:26 PM
I've been disappointed in their price hikes the last couple of months too. Not really sure it's worth ordering from them anymore. I can seem to find things local now for as good as prices if not better. I think they're cashing in on the election hysteria and shortages. I can't blame them, this is America and economics are simply supply and demand, but I'll buy local if same price.

Art Eatman
April 6, 2012, 04:05 PM
That there has been clear explanation of how penny auctions work is very good. Trouble is, there has been way too much harumphing about them, which is a waste of bandwidth.

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