Heritage Rough Rider 22


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HGM22
April 5, 2012, 12:11 AM
I'd like to get a .22 pistol but don't have a lot of money and saw one of these for a low price. I've heard they are "ok" guns. But, I was wondering a few things:

1. What is the longevity like on these guns? Any ideas on round count?

2. Kind of related to #1 - what is Heritage's customer service/warranty like?

3. Can a .22Mag cylinder be bought at a later date and "drop in"? If it would have to be fitted by a gunsmith, any idea how much it would cost?

4. I believe I've heard that convertible guns are less accurate in .22LR since they are chambered for .22Mag which is slightly larger. True?

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Jim NE
April 5, 2012, 01:12 AM
Very good guns for the price. Have no idea of round count/longevtiy. Most frames are an alloy rather than steel, but in .22 I can't believe that will make much diference. Don't know about mag stuff, even though mine is also a mag convertible. I haven't shot the mag cylinder, but in lr it's very accurate. I got mine new as Bud's blemish for $148 WITH the mag cylinder.

Maybe the best value of any of the guns I own.

CraigC
April 5, 2012, 09:13 AM
You get what you pay for, they're relatively cheap guns. Frames made of pot metal, barrels held in with adhesive, plastic ejector button prone to breakage. Never been impressed with them. Their owners usually dote on them but I've never heard of one with a high round count. Usually not more than a few thousand. By contrast, my 50yr old Single Six has seen at least 25-30,000rds in just the last five years alone. My advice would be to save your money towards a used Ruger. Unlike the HRR, they're made just like their centerfire brethren.

22-rimfire
April 5, 2012, 10:20 AM
My best advice is to save more money and buy a Ruger. :) I thought about bashing the Heritage Rough Rider here, but I won't. They work. They're inexpensive relative to other major manufacturer's 22 revolvers. People value things differently and have more or less financial resources. But my guess is that if you buy a Rough Rider and enjoy shooting it, you'll buy something that is considered to be of higher quality in the future. We all start somewhere in this shooting sport. Better to shoot than not be able to shoot because you are saving up for that $800 S&W DA 22.

arcticap
April 5, 2012, 04:49 PM
They're a good value for the money and shoot very accurately out to at least 25 yards.
But mine is not without faults.
The cylinder bolt will sometimes pop up and lock the cylinder which prevents it from being cocked right after loading unless the cylinder is removed to reset the bolt. That can happen a few times during a shooting session.
The hammer screw kept loosening up and needed some thread lock, and one of the grip frame screws fell out and got lost before I realized that it was loose. It's still missing but doesn't affect its function.
Cleaning solvents can begin to dissolve the paint finish that's only on the receiver and extractor rod shroud. The barrel is blued and is not affected.
I never fired the .22 WMR cylinder but if I did I would prefer to only use Winchester Dynapoint WMR 45 grain plated ammo because they're less than full power and won't stress the cylinder pin hole in the frame as much.
The adjustable fiber optic sight set, its unique flip safety system and laminated grips are pluses in its favor.
I'm not concerned about it's longevity at all because its holding up well and seems to be plenty strong and tight for shooting .22lr's.
If I really wanted to have it fixed I could easily just send it in to the company and the parts are inexpensive.
Its original price was certainly a bargain and is a good enough reason to buy one.
Despite the minor issues with mine I would still rate it a B to a B+.

Josh45
April 5, 2012, 04:54 PM
Bought one recently for my little brother. Have had no problems with it so far. I have put about 500 rounds thru it already. No lock up issues. No timing problems. Also, I bought it from Budsgunshop and it came with the .22 mag cylinder. Ran about 20-30 rounds thru of .22 mags. It did nicely.

It is accurate and fun. And a decent plinker if you ask me. Altho, It is not the best of quality. I see no problems with it. But I have the 6 1/2 inch one and it is a bit nose heavy. I like it for that matter. If you like it and want something cheap to shoot, Go for it. Ruger is good brand as I'm sure you already know but I have no experience with their .22 so I cannot say much.

rcmodel
April 5, 2012, 04:58 PM
If you want the extra cylinder, get it from the get-go.

In the long run, it will be way cheaper then buying a cylinder and getting it fitted later.

rc

Ruger Redhawk
April 5, 2012, 05:05 PM
I have never owned one or ever will. Save up and get the Ruger Single Six. It will last you a lifetime and then some.

I happened to find a site dedicated to Heritage guns.

http://www.gunslingerforum.com/

Hammerdown77
April 5, 2012, 05:56 PM
I have one with both cylinders, adjustable rear sight, and fiber optic front sight. It was $180 + tax. I have a 1967 era 3-screw Single Six, both cylinders.

The Heritage will shoot with that Single Six all day long. Yes, the Single Six is a much nicer, more refined and well finished gun (especially the Old Models, I'm not as enthused about the new models). But for a .22 pistol it's hard to beat the bang for the buck of the Rough Rider. If you want something that you can pass down to your grandchildren, I agree with others here. Save your money, and buy the Ruger.

But for a shooter, kick around type gun, it's hard for me to justify spending over $400 on a new Single Six as compared to under $200 for the Heritage.

arcticap
April 5, 2012, 06:02 PM
Thanks for listing the website Ruger Redhawk. It provides take down instructions and I learned that I may only need to loosen the trigger spring screw a little bit to keep my cylinder bolt from locking up.
It's a very simple fix even for a layperson:

http://www.gunslingerforum.com/visual-take-down-walkthrough-for-the-heritage-rough-rider-t190.html

Since the locking up of the cylinder bolt can be fixed by simply removing 4 screws and the grip frame, then I would surely rate my Rough Rider as being a B+ to an A-.
Also, the Rough Rider's safety switch provides a hammer block safety which comes in very handy when hunting, at the range or if letting a novice use it.
And engaging the safety switch will even allow one to practice dry firing it without damaging the firing pin. :)

Ruger Redhawk
April 5, 2012, 06:07 PM
Thanks for listing the website Ruger Redhawk. It has take down instructions and I learned that I may only need to loosen the trigger spring screw a little bit to keep my cylinder bolt from locking up.
It's a very simple fix even for a layperson:

http://www.gunslingerforum.com/visual-take-down-walkthrough-for-the-heritage-rough-rider-t190.html

Since the locking up of the cylinder bolt can be fixed by simply removing 4 screws and the grip frame, then I would surely rate my Rough Rider as being a B+ to an A-. :)
You're welcome, I'm glad someone was able to use that site. I have no experience what's so ever with Heritage.I just know what I have in my Ruger Single Six.

Doug S
April 5, 2012, 06:28 PM
The guns come with a coupon for the purchase of the additional convertable cylinder for something like $30. I bought a RR, haven't had any problems with it, but I haven't shot it much.

MrAcheson
April 5, 2012, 06:58 PM
I have one and am not impressed:

Longevity: I've shot a few hundred rounds of .22lr through mine and already have cylinder shake. This is because the sharp steel cylinder star is chewing up the soft alloy frame. This will probably stop once the divots are deep enough, but that doesn't mean I approve.

Warranty: I believe they offer a 1 year warranty. Check their website.

.22 Mag cylinder: Yes. Not sure how well it will drop in, but they do sell the .22 mag cylinder as an aftermarket part. I bought mine with both. I doubt you're saving yourself much money in the long run by purchasing the other cylinder later.

Accuracy: I've only shot mine with .22 lr and it isn't especially accurate. But a lot of that has to do with the fixed sights on mine which are both tiny, lopsided, and not regulated to point of aim. Get an adjustable sight gun if you buy one. I did buy some .22 mag but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.

If I had to do it over again, I'd save up and buy something else. Especially since the gun is worth less than $100 used.

AntiSpin
April 5, 2012, 08:16 PM
Having read some posts relating to the bore diameter on these revolvers, I emailed the following three questions to Heritage, and got the following answers:

1. Is the bore diameter the same on the .22 combo revolver,as it is on the .22LR-only?
we use the same barrel for a single cylinder revolver and the combo revolver

2. If so, what is that diameter?
diameter of the barrel bore is +/- 5.75mm and the diameter of the lr cyl chamber is +/- .21875

3. If not, what are the diameters of each?
(n/a)

Doing the arithmetic on the 5.75mm bore, that would make it .2264, which seems to me to be just a bit sloppy, even for the magnum round, and it would seem that the LR bullet would rattle down the bore rather randomly.

HGM22
April 5, 2012, 08:28 PM
Do the spare cylinders need fitting or are they drop-in?

gpr
April 5, 2012, 10:26 PM
revolver cylinders need to be timed, get the combo from the factory...i too did the 'bud's blem special'... i did not see the blem....i haven't tried the mag yet, the long rifle is to much fun...gary

Mike J
April 5, 2012, 10:51 PM
I bought my Heritage Rough Rider with just the Long Rifle cylinder. Later on I went to their website & found out I could order a .22 magnum cylinder for not that much more money so I ordered one. It was drop in & worked fine though I probably haven't put 100 rounds through it. The reason I haven't shot it more isn't due to any problems with the .22 magnum cylinder. I just use this revolver for plinking & the eradication of small pests. For my purposes the .22 magnum isn't really necessary & I can get 550 rounds of .22 LR for what 50 rounds of .22 mag costs.

22-rimfire
April 5, 2012, 10:57 PM
Mike, what you just said is why the 22 Mag is not more popular in handguns. It is a hunter's caliber and is overkill for small "pests". My general feeling is if you want a 22 mag revolver, you should just get one in 22 mag and have another one (or three) in 22LR.

mcdonl
April 5, 2012, 11:00 PM
Mine is in my trap line, in the woods and in the truck all the time. I have 10's of thousands of rounds thought it and have dispatched many critters with it. Save your money and buy two. Great guns.

jad0110
April 5, 2012, 11:02 PM
The Heritage will shoot with that Single Six all day long. Yes, the Single Six is a much nicer, more refined and well finished gun (especially the Old Models, I'm not as enthused about the new models). But for a .22 pistol it's hard to beat the bang for the buck of the Rough Rider. If you want something that you can pass down to your grandchildren, I agree with others here. Save your money, and buy the Ruger.

But for a shooter, kick around type gun, it's hard for me to justify spending over $400 on a new Single Six as compared to under $200 for the Heritage.

That pretty much sums up my attitude towards mine. It's a fun little gun, that although I doubt it will last as long as a Single Six, currently it shoots at least as accurately as the Single Sixes I've tried or observed.

The problem with the Single Six in my area is one of opportunity cost. They are so expensive locally that for only a little more you can get a used S&W K-22. So that's why I own a Heritage and a 4-screw S&W K-22 / Model 17 no dash.

I may yet acquire a Single Six. I particularly like the Old Models with fixed sights. I'll have to go on gunbroker though, as the prices are just insane in my parts. I see nice Old Models sell on GB for high $200s to mid $300s fairly often. Used beat to crap ones are $500 and up locally.

WALKERs210
April 5, 2012, 11:32 PM
I bought one of these about a month ago and Yes its not the highest quality but for the price its great. I have reached the point in my life that if I see a firearm that I really want and cost is by some way too high I can and have purchased them. Don't intend to leave any thing for kids to fight over. The Heritage I bought came with the 22mag cylinder and so far it has handled everything from 22shorts, 22shot, 22LR and the 22mags. Is it dead accurate ?? not really but after you fire enough you know where it will hit. Using Remington 22LR shells that are advertized as very low noise and Aquila 22lr with nothing but the primer I stand out side my back door and blaze away. Granted that where I live if I wanted to step out the door with a full auto AK no one would say a word, but when I do fire the big stuff I like to go way back on property, especially if I use and exploding target, did it once and wife was not happy. But I have no complaints about the Rough Rider.

tryshoot
April 6, 2012, 03:31 AM
Mine is not a collectors item, but 22lr and 22mag works great. I do wish I had got adjustable sights.

-eaux-
April 6, 2012, 03:46 AM
it's not a single-six. but it's price:value ratio is comparable. i bought two, both with the mag cylinders, a 6" and 10". I've shot countless rounds through both. they're as reliable as any weapon i own (yes, I own plenty of high end revolvers). Do i expect them to get passed down to my grandkids? no, that's what my Rugers are for. But for a beater that you can wear out in the woods and not care about scratches and dings, it'll put down a squirrel, coon or copperhead every bit as good as a single-six will.

arcticap
April 6, 2012, 11:48 AM
I had a photo of mine handy.

thralldad
April 6, 2012, 01:18 PM
I love mine! Good bang for the buck. Accurate and reliable.

Furncliff
April 6, 2012, 01:34 PM
Ruger .... no regrets. Except the regrets of selling the first one 45 years ago.

C5rider
April 6, 2012, 01:41 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=640428&highlight=Ruger+Vs+single+six

Pretty much sums it up for me. :D

DNS
April 6, 2012, 06:57 PM
OK for the price and mine is very accurate. Its 22 only and it seems like issues come from running the magnum ammo from what i'very read.

Honestly i would save up and get the RUGER unless you can score a used Heritage for a hundred or so. They do make steel Heritage revolvers btw.

HGM22
April 6, 2012, 08:58 PM
Well to tell you the truth I don't want it so much because I want a single action, but because I want a cheap .22 to practice marksmanship with. If I'm going to save up I'd prefer to get a Ruger .22 auto, Buckmark, or maybe the Bersa.

Two more questions:

1. Whats the barrel/glue thing? Are the barrels screwed in and held from backing out with glue, much like Loc-tite is used to prevent a scope ring screw from backing out?

2. I've heard now from more than one person that the fixed sight model's sights don't match up with POI. Are the Rough Riders known for this?

arcticap
April 6, 2012, 11:18 PM
I don't know about the glue, but that shouldn't be a problem if they do. It's an accepted method for preventing barrel movement where there's a critical tolerance. Epoxy or glue is also used to secure the threaded barrels to the frames of .44 black powder revolvers that absorb a lot more heat and recoil than these Rough Riders do.

About the sights, who would know what percentage of all that were ever made over the years that don't shoot close enough to POA for folks to complain about?
That's simply the risk that one takes when purchasing any fixed sight model, whether it's a revolver or semi-auto.
If it's a concern then only consider purchasing one that has an adjustable sight.

Hammerdown77
April 7, 2012, 11:06 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about the barrel glue thing. If I'm not mistaken, Freedom Arms uses barrel glue on their guns that have an octagonal barrel fitted. And that's a $2k and up gun.

Of course, I could be mistaken :-)

Craig_VA
April 7, 2012, 02:07 PM
I've had a Rough Rider, dual cylinder, fixed sights, for two years, and I love it. No matter what other guns I take to the range, I always bring it, and finish my session on the line with it. At short range, up to ten yards, it is surprisingly accurate. The fixed iron sights can be adjusted by careful bending, but i have not needed to.

I have never used the .22 mag cylinder, so no comments on that.

When I was shopping for a basic .22lr revolver, I looked at the ~$200 RR, ~$400 Single Six, and ~$600 S&W. My choice was buy now and shoot rather than save for another year or two for the higher end gun. I am not at all disappointed with that decision.

I have shot a friend's Single Six, and acknowledge that it does seem overall a better made and more sturdy firearm than the RR. But, we all decide on cost and time trade offs. Along the same lines, I bought and drive a Toyota, deciding not to save up for a Lexus.

tlatoani
April 8, 2012, 12:05 AM
I have a pair that I really do enjoy. I got a cheap cowboy-style dual rig for em just for fun. No complaints at all.

22-rimfire
April 8, 2012, 06:42 AM
One of the things I have always paid attention to is "wealth building". Buying a RR is not a way to affect much positive change. But I agree with Craig VA in that from a pure shooting and sport point of view, better to buy something less expensive that works than wait for the weather to change or whatever and get the better and more expensive gun. But eventually, I would almost always buy the higher quality gun and ditch the cheapie.

bikerdoc
April 10, 2012, 07:50 AM
Mine is fun and used to plink and train newbies, I have more expensive but I could get by with it in a pinch.

Doug S
April 10, 2012, 02:18 PM
It's good to hear that most of the people who actually own them, are mostly satisfied.

DaisyCutter
April 10, 2012, 06:19 PM
I've had bad luck with cast zinc alloys in $4.99 Megamart cap guns. I reckon I wouldn't try it in a true firearm.

Yarddog
April 10, 2012, 07:24 PM
Mine is fixed sights, Shoots left of POA. Not too shabby for $139 NIB & mag too boot ; )
Y/D

Gaucho Gringo
April 10, 2012, 09:59 PM
I have had mine for about 6 years now and I love it. It has shot everything I load the cylinder with and not one FTF. Have shot shorts, longs, long rifles, shotshell and magnum .22's with no problems, in the Heritage. I have had a Ruger in the past that I bought new and cosmetically the Ruger is better fitted than the Heritage. But as far as function the Heritage seems to be as good as the Ruger. Neither one seems to have an edge over the other one as far as accuracy. I can buy a new Heritage locally for $160.00 vs $410.00 for the Ruger at the same shop. For what I use a .22 revolver for I can not justify paying $250.00 more for the Ruger. As far as I am concerned they do the same job at different price points. The nice thing about where we live is we cannot only purchase a gun but also have a choice of which one we want to purchase. A lot of other people in the world are not as fortunate have a conversation about which gun they want to purchase.

22-rimfire
April 11, 2012, 12:29 AM
For what I use a .22 revolver for I can not justify paying $250.00 more for the Ruger.

I can. I generally prefer Colts and S&W revolvers which are more $$. For me personally, I just can't justify buying cheapie guns even if they shoot. But when I was 21, money was a little harder to come by. But even then after buying what I consider a cheapie (H&R 999), I never bought another one of any manufacture. It took me years before I would even consider buying a Ruger anything....

franconialocal
April 11, 2012, 09:24 PM
I love mine but you really need to bury the front sight for accuracy. Mine came with the .22/.22mag (both) conversions...dropped in easily, the .22 mag is just plain fun.

Xiphoticness
April 12, 2012, 11:20 AM
I had a photo of mine handy. Out of curiosity, and I'm not trying to derail the thread, is that a Blackhawk under your RR?
And as far as the Heritage guns, my .22lr/.22 mag combo Rough Rider with a 6.5" barrel is a beauty to shoot, but not much to look at. Would I like to have a Single Six as well? Of course, I always want more guns. But I can't say there's anything wrong with my Heritage, at least when it comes to function. And for me, function comes before aesthetic issues when considering a firearm.

fpgt72
April 12, 2012, 02:39 PM
I can. I generally prefer Colts and S&W revolvers which are more $$. For me personally, I just can't justify buying cheapie guns even if they shoot. But when I was 21, money was a little harder to come by. But even then after buying what I consider a cheapie (H&R 999), I never bought another one of any manufacture. It took me years before I would even consider buying a Ruger anything....
For me it depends on what I want it for. I have a pre woodsman, but for 22 games I use a ruger mkII.

You can also say the same thing about a 10/22, are the of poor quality just because of their cost?....in this day in age I think there are very few things that are on the market longer then a year that actually are junk....the market will just not allow it.

Nope for me, I want to listen to the people that actually own the item...be it a gun,guitar or glue....the people that own the item and give their views on it are the most valuable....everything else is just what they feel about the item.

GCBurner
April 12, 2012, 04:17 PM
For those that insist on a steel frame instead of aluminum alloy, Heritage makes the Rough Rider in steel: http://www.heritagemfg.com/site/department.cfm?id=1525

I haven't had any problems with my alloy .22 combo, it shoots about the same with .22LR or .22 Magnum. It's not a target pistol, but it's good enough for plinking out to 25 yards or so, which is what I got it for.

22-rimfire
April 12, 2012, 07:30 PM
fpgt72, I own a good selection of Ruger revolvers as well as Colts, Smiths, and others. The Ruger Mark II (heavy barrel) was the first Ruger 22 I purchased and I have been quite pleased with it. I have a 10/22 also, and Yes, I was hesitant to buy one for years. Never cared for the pencil barreled Mark I's. My 10/22 doesn't get shot much as I am not real impressed with the accuracy and don't feel like customizing it to improve it. But I have a lot of 22 handguns and rifles.

You can say that about the market now, but prior to the internet gun forums, you were pretty much on your own, in an experience vacuum, or only learn from perhaps a few others that might own the same firearm. It would have never occurred to me to return a gun to the factory years ago. The fact is none ever broke (except my Mossie 22 which I fixed myself) and if there were constant jamming problems, I sold them off. Let someone else who knows more than me fix it.

As for experience with the Rough Rider, my only experience is based on others I know that own them. If I believed they were a good durable revolver, I'd own one. Like I said, I own quite a few 22's.

I am not saying don't buy a Rough Rider if you can't afford what is generally considered a higher quality firearm... said this in my first post in this thread.

TNboy
April 12, 2012, 09:00 PM
I've been very happy with mine. 6 1/2 inch barrel, conversion, fiber optic sites. I've shot the snot out of the .22 LR cylinder with no problems. I carry it daily with the .22 mag cylinder for pigs (you can drive right up on them from time to time,) coyotes, crows, and whatever else I may come across. No, it is not a Single Six, but you don't buy a Chevy Cavalier expecting all the comforts of a Sedan DeVille. The RR will get the job done adequately at a fair price.

antiquus
April 12, 2012, 11:29 PM
I've had one for 2 years, never regretted it a minute. Whenever I take it to the range, it's fun. I loan it out - cheap enough to risk. I teach noobs with it - because I can dry fire it loaded. Works great at pest control. At least 5000 rounds since new and it still looks good and performs as expected.

The trigger is good, maybe 1/16" travel and breaks clean at less than 3lbs. The balance point in my 6" alloy version is even with the end of the cylinder, very comfortable to handle. The gun has a half cock position for loading and cylinder changes that can act as an additional safety. The discharge finger pull is plastic but the rod is steel and fairly sturdy.

This is an example of a US company building a product that gives great value for money spent. It's not a Mercedes, or even the Escalade of your dreams - it's a Fiesta or a Kia and it works great.

EmG
April 13, 2012, 01:55 PM
first of all, its a missconception that 22LR and 22WMR have different diameter bullets. both have the same .224 dia bullets the difference is that the 22 mag case dia. is larger and the .224 dia. bullet fits inside the case, where the 22LR case has an outside dia of.224 the same dia of the bullet, and the base of the bullet that is inside the case is smaller!! my older new model single six (made in 1973) shoots very accurate consistant 1" groups at 25 yrds off sandbags with its pet loads of both 22mag, and 22LR
I have not shot a heritage gun but have heard good things about them, they should be a good gun at a very reasonable price.

EmG
April 13, 2012, 02:05 PM
the cylinders on the single six have to be fit by a gunsmith, and they will only work on the gun they are fit to. the problem is the timeing of the rotation on each individual gun is slightly different, and unless there fit to the gun the cylinder may not line up with the barrel properly. if the cylinder is not properly fit to the gun it will not shoot accurately, and could posibly be very dangerous!!!!
I assume the heritage guns cylinders have to be fit the same as on the ruger. I would suggest contacting Heritage to find out for sure.

Erik M
April 14, 2012, 07:00 PM
My 6 1/2" model has preformed great the last 2 years. While it is no Ruger Bearcat in appearance it has put many .22lr rounds into pop cans and targets reliably. My only complaint is that it got some mud on it while four wheeling one time and I forgot to clean it that night in a time range of 8-10 hours water/mud took whatever finish completely off the gun, so that now my barrel has a quarter sized splotch of bare metal. Its only cosmetic though, it's never failed to shoot straight.

There are videos on youtube where a guy gets to go on a walkthrough of the Heritage production facility.

CraigC
April 14, 2012, 09:55 PM
I don't know about the glue, but that shouldn't be a problem if they do.
I wouldn't worry too much about the barrel glue thing.
We're not talking about real threads with thread adhesive. In which case the adhesive only serves to prevent the barrel from unscrewing. We're talking about a ribbed barrel pressed into the frame (and a zinc alloy frame at that) and ONLY held into place with adhesive. Huge difference. That's why Heritage does not want you turning the barrel to correct windage problems.

jcwit
April 14, 2012, 10:40 PM
CraigC, I do not own a Rough Rider, but I do own over 70 handguns and approx. half of those are revolvers. I've yet to try to correct windage in any revolver by turning/twisting the barrel. In fact I've yet to try it in ANY firearm.

I understand you have no use for the R/R line, but the OP seem he can afford it rather than doing without. At least he will be shooting & enjoying himself.

For all those looking down their nose at a cast receiver so called "pot metal" actually "ZAMAK" I wonder if they feel the same way about all the semi auto .22 rifles out there being sold. Even the RUGER .22 semi auto, AKA 10/22.

Just wondering.

CraigC
April 15, 2012, 12:18 AM
What you have done with your guns is irrelevant. Fact remains that it is customary to turn the barrel on a fixed-sight revolver to correct windage issues. Fact remains that bending the front sight with a pair of pliers is the ghetto method. Which is what Heritage recommends. Buy them if you wish but know the facts going in.

The Ruger 10/22 receiver is made from an aluminum alloy. The same sort of alloy that goes into AR receivers. The HRR is made from a zinc-based alloy called ZAMAK. High grade for pot metal but still pot metal. Nowhere close to being the same thing.

The steel they use in their steel version is the cheapest grade of steel you will find anywhere in firearms' manufacture, 12L14. Some folks believe it should not be used in firearms at all. It is used because it is easy to machine, i.e., cheap to manipulate. Like pot metal. Ruger uses the same steel they use in their centerfire Blackhawk to manufacture the Single Six.

Onward Allusion
April 15, 2012, 12:31 AM
HGM22
Heritage Rough Rider 22

Owned both the HRR & the Ruger SS - About the same in accuracy. Ruger had a nicer finish. If all you're looking for is a shooter and don't plan on putting a steady diet of 22 Mag through it, save the couple of hundred and get the HRR. Use the savings and get 5,000 rounds of 22LR.

jcwit
April 15, 2012, 01:09 AM
What you have done with your guns is irrelevant.

What I do with my firearms is in fact entirely relevent, you may wish to twist your barrels around to satisify the accuracy you wish. I will use sight adjustments, which is the correct way to accomplish the same thing.

Granted, you are entitled to your opinion regarding the R/R. but in reality Aluminum Ally is in fact nothing more that a pop metal, don't believe it, put a torch to it. Many manufactures today use aluminum alloys and ZAMAK, Henry Repeating Arms being one which is a leader in the lever action .22 industry.

Heritage has been in business for well over 10 years manufacturing their revolvers with many, satisified customers. Granted their guarantee is only for 1 year but they offer a lifetime repair for only the cost of shipping and price of parts with no bench labor or testing after being added on, even the Smith & Wesson can not equal that.

Remember, not everyone has the means to purchase the high dollar items, no matter what they may be, firearms or TV sets. We all start someplace and their folks starting a family and wish to enjoy the sport we all wish to have grow, at least I hope so, these arms are a way for them to get started and for them to enjoy the sport.

I'm sure you would not wish them to do without for a year or more doing without rather than joining in.

I'm past that point in my life at the age of 68, but I still know a value and price point within a budget when I see it.


For those that think ZAMAK is nothing but a cheap "pot metal" it would behove you to read the following links.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak

http://www.eazall.com/diecastalloys.aspx

Also remember the following manufacture and use of Zamak castings, Cannon, Nikon, Fuji, and other fine name brand cameras. Plus many of the parts of your "whoever you may be" vehicle that you put your life and the lives of your family in are made of Zamak.

Regarding how poor a steel 12L14 is check this link

http://www.alcobrametals.com/guide.php?metal=22

Yes there lower grade steels, worse that 12L14.

One reason 12L14 is such an inexpensive steel is its mass produced much more than many other steels which brings the price down.

Cheap and inferior are the wrong words to use, affordable is more in line with the manufacturer needs and price point, placing value in the customers hands.

Not every has the means or needs for the Land Rover, or Cadillac, but most every one does have need for personal transportation be it a Chevy or Ford or a used car.

CraigC
April 15, 2012, 11:45 AM
I will use sight adjustments, which is the correct way to accomplish the same thing.
Really, you use sight adjustments for fixed sight revolvers? How is this accomplished???


...in reality Aluminum Alloy is in fact nothing more that a pot (sp) metal, don't believe it, put a torch to it.
Really? Aluminum and zinc are the same now? Zinc based alloys, i.e. pot metal, are cheaper to procure and cheaper to manipulate. So why don't they build airplanes, M-16's and various other things out of zinc instead of aluminum??? It is used because it is cheap to procure and cheap to manipulate. Not because it's the best material for the job. It is used strictly as a cost-cutting measure. Because you don't need the foundry necessary to manipulate steel and aluminum. Because it is little different from casting lead. Think about it for one second, the cheapest guns on the market are made of zinc and for good reason. Sorry but you're not gonna pee down my back and tell me it's raining.


Cheap and inferior are the wrong words to use, affordable is more in line with the manufacturer needs and price point, placing value in the customers hands.
Wrong. "Cheap and inferior" are the God's honest truth. "Affordable" is the politically correct version so that no feelings are hurt. "Value" is not dependent on price alone. "Value" means that you are getting something for your money. Not that you are buying something cheap. A used Single Six may cost as little as $200 and last several lifetimes. THAT is value. Paying that same $200 for a pot metal Heritage is not. Because it will only last several lifetimes if you put in in a shelf. But then there's that thing that zinc does as it ages. :rolleyes:


Not every has the means or needs for the Land Rover, or Cadillac...
We're comparing them to Rugers, not USFA's or Freedom Arms 97's. You would have a point if we were comparing them to a $900 12/22 or a $1500 FA 97. We're not. This is not a class war. So don't be so dramatic.


I'm sure you would not wish them to do without for a year or more doing without rather than joining in.
I would rather see people do without a great many things in their lives and buy things that are of quality. Rather than just making do with the cheapest stuff they can find. This Walmart mentality is why we are in the predicament we are in as a nation. People would just rather have a bunch of cheap junk.


The bottom line is that the Rough Rider is a cheap gun designed to be a disposable plinker. It is made cheaply and it is priced cheaply. It is not as good as a Ruger and that is fine because it was never meant to be. Why this is so difficult for some to accept is beyond me.

jcwit
April 15, 2012, 12:07 PM
I'm begining to understand this now. Everthing you say/claim is Gospel, and everything I say/claim is BS. I assume this also applies to what you own versus what I own. Somehow I just can't accept all this, nor can I accept all the blanket statements.

You need to make note I wrote aluminum alloy, not aluminum castings, extrusions, or any other form of aluminum. Zamak does contain aluminum as part of the alloy, and is an extremely useful alloy.

Have you ever owned a Heritage revolver?

The bottom line is that the Rough Rider is a cheap gun designed to be a disposable plinker. It is made cheaply and it is priced cheaply. It is not as good as a Ruger and that is fine because it was never meant to be. Why this is so difficult for some to accept is beyond me.

This is a statement I'll accept, but I would substitute the words inexpensive for cheap, if nothing else it does sound better.

"Affordable" is the politically correct version so that no feelings are hurt.

LOL, If you actually knew me its for certain this would never have been mentioned.

My attitude toward how others take me is they have the option of getting over it or staying miserable, their choice.

Sorry you have such an adversion to the heritage line of firearms, but let others enjoy the sport within their means as they wish.

After all these firearms ARE made in the good ol' U.S. of A.

jad0110
April 15, 2012, 12:33 PM
A used Single Six may cost as little as $200 and last several lifetimes. THAT is value.

I agree 100%. Between a $175 NIB RR and a used $200 Single Six, the Single Six wins the value equation hands down. $200 to $300 used Single Sixes seem to be the norm in most of the country. Alas, as I know I've discussed with you in the past in other threads though, sub $500 Single Sixes (new or used) flat don't exist in my parts. $600 is actually fairly common. At that point, you have to also look at what you can get for $500 or a little more (worn but mechanically solid K-22s come to mind). Between a used Single Six and a used K-22, I'd lean towards the K-22 personally (a 4" Model 18 would make a great companion to my 6" Model 17 and my 4" Model 15 and 19).

As mentioned earlier, one day I'll pick up an Old Model on Gunbroker sometime. I can get a much better deal online than I can locally, though I prefer to inspect before I buy. If it weren't for the potential legal issues (not having an FFL), I'd be tempted to go to other parts of the country, buy up a buttload of used Rugers for $200 and resell them in my state for $400 a piece.

22-rimfire
April 15, 2012, 12:47 PM
I was wondering when CraigC would chime in on this thread. Bet you were thinking... should I or shouldn't I??? Why repeat the same things that you have said in other Rough Rider threads? I tend to agree with that statement, but it keeps coming up over and over again, just like the bear defense threads. I like those threads however as they are fun.

As I said earlier, I think there are better choices for a SA 22 revolver even if they cost more. The RR is affordable and it will likely last a while. For the average shooter, it may last a long time. That doesn't change the fact that they are constructed from materials that are much easier to manufacture as compared to, say a Ruger. Ruger got their start by using castings when the S&W and Colt were forging their frames for the most part. Colt did in fact use a zamak frame on their early 22 revolver and then later moved to steel frames before dropping the SA 22 entirely from their catalog.

I have never turned a barrel. Unfortunately, I tend to just use KY windage adjustments and live with it when a fixed sight revolver shoots significantly from the POA or sell them off.

I think it is better to buy something and shoot then to postpone for perhaps years a purchase because of a price difference (typically Ruger vs Heritage with SA and Ruger or Taurus vs S&W in DA). One needs to buy with their eyes open however. But enjoy the shooting sports.

CraigC
April 15, 2012, 01:35 PM
Everything you say/claim is Gospel, and everything I say/claim is BS. I assume this also applies to what you own versus what I own.
I'm wrong all the time and am not afraid to admit it. However, single action revolvers are what I spend the most amount of my time, money and energy on and thus, I am very passionate about them and probably know a thing or two. The difference, which is always apparent in these threads, is that I can look at them objectively. As passionate as I am about sixguns, I am under no illusions. I love Rugers but it does not offend me or damage my ego to say that BFR's, USFA's and FA's are "better". I have no problem accepting that new Miroku-made Winchesters are "better" than my `70's vintage guns. Or that pre-war S&W's and Colt's are better than my guns from the `70's-`80's. I have no issue accepting that Westley Richards makes a better double than my Fabarm. Just as it should not take an act of Congress to accept that Rugers are better than Heritage. Same for Henry versus Winchester or Marlin. For reasons that I am still trying to understand, 'some' folks simply cannot accept that things they cannot or more accurately, will not afford might be "better" than their choice. What is "better" or "best" depends entirely on the individual. My threshold is at Ruger. Yours may be at Heritage. That is fine. I don't begrudge others their choices. However, if you say that a Heritage is "just as good" as a Ruger I will call you on it and provide details and reasons as to why it's not true. Just as I would expect the same if one says that Ruger is "just as good" as a BFR, USFA or FA. Or one of any other myriad comparisons. Personally, when I'm researching a potential purchase, I want unbiased facts. Not uneducated opinions from well-intentioned folks who cannot see beyond their own choices.


You need to make note I wrote aluminum alloy, not aluminum castings, extrusions, or any other form of aluminum.
You do understand that all useful forms of aluminum are alloyed with other metals and that castings/extrusions are methods of manipulating the metal and are mutually exclusive of what the alloy contains???


Really, you use sight adjustments for fixed sight revolvers? How is this accomplished???
Waiting for an answer.


Have you ever owned a Heritage revolver?
No and I never will. Like I've said a hundred times in a hundred other threads, I don't need to lick a turd to know that I would not want to eat it. I don't buy guns I consider "cheap". Nor do I have to own a cheap gun to know that it is cheap. Nor do I have to wear out a cheap gun to know that I shouldn't have bought it. I use this rare gift known as deductive reasoning. It keeps me from wasting money.


This is a statement I'll accept, but I would substitute the words inexpensive for cheap, if nothing else it does sound better.
More political correctness.


Also remember the following manufacture and use of Zamak castings, Cannon, Nikon, Fuji, and other fine name brand cameras. Plus many of the parts of your "whoever you may be" vehicle that you put your life and the lives of your family in are made of Zamak.
We're not discussing cars and cameras.


Why repeat the same things that you have said in other Rough Rider threads?
Because I'm hard-headed and some folks can't use the search function. ;)


Colt did in fact use a zamak frame on their early 22 revolver and then later moved to steel frames before dropping the SA 22 entirely from their catalog.
Which is why I make a funny face when folks say that Colt Frontier Scouts are "better" than Single Sixes. In centerfire guns, Colt SAA's are definitely a couple steps above Blackhawks and Vaqueros. Especially with the new Colt's being so good. However, this does not necessarily apply to the rimfire guns. As mentioned, some of them have pot metal frames and funny looking ejector housings of stamped sheetmetal. The later New Frontier .22's had steel frames and better ejector housings but the same grip frames. They are very good sixguns and worth the Colt premium.


One needs to buy with their eyes open however.
In a nutshell and contrary to popular belief, this is the sole purpose for my posting in these threads.

45_auto
April 15, 2012, 01:46 PM
My son bought a RR a few years ago when Academy had them on sale for $99 that shot beautifully. He went back and bought another one as a birthday present for his brother.

The second one shoots about a foot left of POA at 8 yards. Bending the front sight over at about a 45 degree angle got it within about 4 or 5 inches left of POA. Bending the barrel in the frame got it within about 2 inches left of the POA, but it sure looks stupid.

It needs to take a trip back to Miami and try out their customer service, but for the price nobody has worried about it. They just use one of my Single Sixes instead!

22-rimfire
April 15, 2012, 02:15 PM
Craig, if I had to guess, Colt probably dropped the alloy frame because of the very reasons you bring up. Colt was late to the game on the SA 22 and I guess their engineers believed "it's just a 22" and we want something very competitive ($$ wise) with Ruger that I read were selling the Single Six's like crazy. The New Frontier and Peacemaker 22's were excellent SA 22 revolvers. I have a couple, and one Frontier Scout (FS). The FS is a collector gun however and will never get shot (first year of manufacture and NIB etc.)

I am not going to buy a Rough Rider just to try one out when I know they are inferior to the Ruger Single Six or the new Single Ten. The Single Ten is a VERY nice 22 revolver! Money or cost is important, but I would rather spend more now and be happy than have to repeat the excercise a year or two later when I'm frustrated with the RR.

An option commonly not mentioned is High Standard made a single action (and double action cowboy style) 22 revolver in years past and they weren't half bad. I suspect they were inferior to the Ruger Single Six however. But that is just my opinion.

CraigC
April 15, 2012, 02:46 PM
I agree, although I do know of a very high mileage Frontier Scout that has seen untold thousands of rounds and holster miles but has only needed a hand spring in its relatively long life. Perhaps the HRR will last longer than I think it will but I'm really not willing to spend enough time with one to find out. Life is too short, especially when I already have four Single Sixes, three of which cost $200-$250.

While I prefer Old Models, that Lipsey's 4 5/8" blued Single Ten is awfully tempting!

jcwit
April 15, 2012, 03:40 PM
Guess I'll just back out of this discussion or argument as I think you wish to make it. I could make my reasons known for this decision but I doubt it would be in this forums best interests, after all it is the High Road. It really hard tho to have an open discussion with someone that is so closed minded. Something like the Amish claiming movies are bad, never having seen one. Opps, we're not talking about movies, are we?

Regarding fixed sightes, I have no firearms that I shoot or carry that are fixed. Didn't say that I didn't own any tho did I?

22-rimfire
April 15, 2012, 03:54 PM
Yes, the Single Ten very tempting. It is not on my list yet, but it may follow a 3" S&W M63 if I ever see the M63 in a gunshop. I handled one of the Single Tens and loved it. I like the indexing ("click") with the cylinder also which I believe is not present with the Single Six. The single ten feels like a precision piece of machinery.

jcwit
April 15, 2012, 04:05 PM
However, if you say that a Heritage is "just as good" as a Ruger I will call you on it and provide details and reasons as to why it's not true. Just as I would expect the same if one says that Ruger is "just as good" as a BFR, USFA or FA.

Never said that at all, you are the one that stated the OP should do without rather than weast him funds with a Heritage revolver. In other words do without. I stated previously thisNot every has the means or needs for the Land Rover, or Cadillac, but most every one does have need for personal transportation be it a Chevy or Ford or a used car. and in reality you are correct that we are not discussing cars, but what you failed to understand is its an analogy, and yes it still stands.

My threshold is at Ruger. Yours may be at Heritage.

Have no threshold, I own none of either. But the OP may have a threshold because of finances, or for whatever reasons, you have no knowledge of that at all, nor do I, other than what he said in the first post stating he did not have a lot of money.

The difference, which is always apparent in these threads, is that I can look at them objectively.

Oh Really? Objectively? Ah OK!

As passionate as I am about sixguns, I am under no illusions.

So you admit you are the final expert regarding single action revolvers. As stated earlier, I'm begining to understand this now. Everthing you say/claim is Gospel, and everything I say/claim is BS. I assume this also applies to what you own versus what I own. Yup, I got it.

CraigC
April 15, 2012, 04:16 PM
I handled one of the Single Tens and loved it. I like the indexing ("click") with the cylinder also which I believe is not present with the Single Six. The single ten feels like a precision piece of machinery.
Ruger has been doing a very good job as of late. The New Vaquero and new flat-tops have been much improved over previous New Models and those changes are trickling into the rest of the line. Very good guns and the Single Ten models go a long way towards alleviating the indexing issue present in their other guns. I'm saving my money (yes, what a novel concept, jcwit) towards my next custom sixgun (Old Model .357 Blackhawk) so I won't be running out to order one but if I run across the aforementioned blued 4 5/8" model, I probably won't be able to resist. I handled a stainless model and it was only $439. I just don't care for more stainless guns or 5" barrels or I would've brought it home.


It really hard tho to have an open discussion with someone that is so closed minded.
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Sorry, you'll have to pin that label on somebody else. I also note that the other side is usually incapable of having this discussion without resorting to personal attacks. As illustrated.

jcwit
April 15, 2012, 04:32 PM
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Sorry, you'll have to pin that label on somebody else. I also note that the other side is usually incapable of having this discussion without resorting to personal attacks. As illustrated.

Whoa, wait a minute. I made no personal attacks nor did resort to any name calling. Don't go changing my meaning or putting words into my posts.

Gotta go, got some experiementing with a new rifle I picked up last week.

22-rimfire
April 15, 2012, 05:34 PM
I suspect the OP has enough opinions to make his/her own decision at this point. :)

Onward Allusion
April 15, 2012, 05:35 PM
Good gawd gentlemen. It's a single action plinker chambered in 22LR (& 22 Mag for the combo). Either or will be a decent shooter. It ain't a Colt Diamond Back or a Officer's Match and most people aren't going to put 30,000 rounds through them, especially 'cause it's a single action. Probably will get carpal tunnel if you did shoot 30,000 rounds out of one anyway! :)

jcwit
April 15, 2012, 05:38 PM
Good gawd gentlemen. It's a single action plinker chambered in 22LR (& 22 Mag for the combo). It ain't a Colt Diamond Back or a Officer Match and most people aren't going to put 30,000 rounds through them, especially 'cause it's a single action. Probably will get carpal tunnel if you did shoot 30,000 rounds out of one anyway!

Very well put!

A fun gun!

jrdolall
April 15, 2012, 06:23 PM
I am always amazed to see the responses from certain people whenever an OP asks about a "budget" gun. I guess I need to join a forum about cars so I could read responses to this question, "I am considering buying a Kia Optima as my get around town car and was wondering what other Kia owners think".
Answers would generally be broad based. Actual owners of a Kia Optima would either give a great appraisal or lament the fact that they ever bought one. Others would immediately say that the OP would be better off saving their money and buying a Lexus or Mercedes because they are better quality and would last longer. Maybe a comment about how it is much safer for your family and cousins to be riding in a Mercedes.

A Kia is about $20k I would guess? Maybe I should check that out before posting. A Mercedes is at least double and more. A new Heritage is $175. A new Ruger Single Six is double and more.
As ONWARD put it, it is a super cheap/affordable gun for shooting aluminum (cast aluminum?) cans and pine cones. I doubt the OP is planning to enter combat or match shooting competitions with the RR. If you just want a wheel gun that shoots cheap ammo for plinking then it is a GREAT gun. I do not own one but I shot a box of Blazers using a friends gun this morning in .22LR and it was a fun little gun. Feels cheap, looks cheap and is cheap/affordable. Buy one and then wait a while and buy a Ruger for the other hip.

Buy what you can afford! Put something more expensive on a credit card and pay over time if that is what you want or need to do. A Ruger for $200 or a Heritage for $175 then buy the Ruger. Better yet post where you found the Ruger for $200 and someone here will go buy it.

contender
April 15, 2012, 09:34 PM
However, if you say that a Heritage is "just as good" as a Ruger I will call you on it and provide details and reasons as to why it's not true. Just as I would expect the same if one says that Ruger is "just as good" as a BFR, USFA or FA.

one can not escape hard facts as to tolerances, materials, and craftsmanship. and that is generally what is discussed when it comes to guns. However, a gun ain't worth a durn unless the human element is discussed, and this is where the "just as good" often comes into play whether we are discussing a HRR vs a single-six or a Browning Citori vs a Remington Spartan. If a HRR meets the expectations of its owner and fulfills the need and does the job, then for that owner it is as good as a single-six. That same HRR may not meet the expectations of the next feller...for that matter, a ruger may not either.

in other words, a lot of people can not tell the difference between a $20 socket set from Harbor Freight vs. a $100 set from snap-on. All they care is the $20 set is doing the job and meeting their needs. And they are right and they did make the right selection for themselves. For the next feller with a different set of needs and expectations, he just might make a different choice...



nobody got it wrong, they got it right for themselves and their needs. "as good as" will apply.

EmG
April 15, 2012, 11:47 PM
I would like to add to this discussion that the price of a gun or anything for that matter, does not always reflect the quality of said item. a good example is Ruger handguns . I have several Ruger handguns and my opinion is that Rugers are better made than some of the much more expensive brands. if I based quality on price alone I would never Have bought a Ruger in the first place. I have never bought or shot a Heritage firearm, and until I do I cant base an opinion on them, they very well could be as good as a Ruger. the bottom line is buy the best gun you can afford.

Confederate51
April 16, 2012, 01:04 AM
Just to input my experience with the heritage. I bought one probably around the time they came available and paid around 120.00 or so for it. It came with the magnum cylinder as a combo deal. It had the 4 1/2" barrel, as best I remember, with the laminate grips and nickel finish. Didn't really like the sight and the nickel finish wore off in places where the holster rubbed, but the gun shot fine. They've since made improvements to the gun, I'm sure, including a steeper price. But, overall, I liked it. Even though I sold it, I would buy another. Hope this helps the one that posted the inquiry about these guns originally. Thanks.

-eaux-
April 16, 2012, 01:09 AM
good grief. :rolleyes:

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