Gun laws in Boston, Mass?


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leadcounsel
April 5, 2012, 10:39 AM
Future trip planned to Boston Mass. Ironic that one of the birthplaces to freedom is so anti-free. :banghead:

But the trip is important.

I've looked around and know theres:
1) No CCW
2) No high cap mags (mags over 10 rounds)
3) No Assault Weapons, or shotguns that have large capacity mag tubes

What other restrictions need I be aware of to comply with the law?

Specifically,
- What permissible ways do I travel with my weapon?
- Are Hollow Points legal?
- Anything else unusual?

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Loosedhorse
April 5, 2012, 11:00 AM
What permissible ways do I travel with my weapon?
None, if you are staying in Boston or MA.

Under FOPA, if you are traveling THROUGH MA on the way to a destination and from a starting point where you may legally possess the firearm, and have the gun unloaded and in a locked container in your trunk, separate from ammo, then you're fine. You can even make reasonable stops (for gas and food, and you know ;)) with the gun remaining locked in your trunk.

If you decide to stay in a hotel in MA overnight (which I wouldn't) on your way to that other legal place, I would send the keys to your locked case on ahead to your destination, so that you have NO ACCESS to your fireams while you are in our great Commonwealth.

I am not a lawyer, and this does not constitute advice. You can call the State police (I have found them a very undependable resource for legal info), or of course a firearms lawyer who works here. Some are listed at this website (http://www.fsguns.com/instructors.html) (scroll down).

We have something called the Barltey-Fox law here: carrying a handgun without a LTCF is specified for a minimum sentence of one year in jail. And "carrying a handgun" might include transporting it unloaded in a locked case--I personally would assume it does.

There are, I believe, exceptions for coming here for the purpose of competing in a recognized shooting competition, or hunting. There are specific requirements for those exemptions, which I do not know in detail.

alsaqr
April 5, 2012, 11:04 AM
None, if you are staying in Boston or MA.

What Loosedhorse said. Do not take a gun into the state of MA.

leadcounsel
April 5, 2012, 11:25 AM
What about self-defense at a residence house?

Staying with a friend, say someone tries to break in?

Restrictions on hollowpoints?

drsfmd
April 5, 2012, 11:32 AM
What about self-defense at a residence house?

Staying with a friend, say someone tries to break in?

Restrictions on hollowpoints?


Duty to retreat... and you aren't allowed to posess it in the first place. Again, you just can't do it legally.

Loosedhorse
April 5, 2012, 11:36 AM
What about self-defense at a residence house?

Staying with a friend, say someone tries to break in?You have the numbers for the lawyers.Restrictions on hollowpoints? No restrictions at all on HPs. Except, of course, you may not possess ANY ammunition or components of ammunition (http://www.massbar.org/publications/lawyers-journal/2011/july/don%E2%80%99t-pick-up-after-others,-or,-the-danger-of-spent-shell-casings) without a license.Duty to retreatNo DTR in your residence.

Prince Yamato
April 5, 2012, 01:20 PM
See about a non-resident permit. $100, good for a year.

JesseCohen
April 5, 2012, 08:27 PM
Is Boston your destination? Or are you just travelling through Mass. to some state that you can legally possess the firearm in?

VERY bad idea to come visit Boston without a license, cocked and locked with hollow points. Budget $10,000.00 to $15,000.00 for your trip in case something happens. You would have no sympathy in the Court and would face felony charges with 18 month mandatory sentences. (MGL. Ch. 269 sec. 10a) Depending on the circumstances it could be plead down to (MGL Ch 269 sec. 10h) which would spare you the minimum mandatory sentence.

Doesn't sound to me like a relaxing vacation.

the iron horse
April 5, 2012, 09:02 PM
Another reason why I thank God I live in the South.

leadcounsel
April 5, 2012, 10:02 PM
So what I'm hearing is that if I stay at a friends house in Boston, I cannot have a loaded gun for self defense? Seriously?

I understand there's no CCW.

Surely there are gun owners in Boston who keep a loaded handgun in their homes for defensive reasons?

Loosedhorse
April 5, 2012, 10:23 PM
Another reason why I thank God I live in the South. Actually, it's fine to live here, just a heck of a place for you to visit if you want to be armed. On the other hand, I can live here, armed, and visit the South, armed.

:)Surely there are gun owners in Boston who keep a loaded handgun in their homes for defensive reasons? Absolutely--I'd say PLENTY. And the ones doing it legally have licenses! :D

leadcounsel
April 5, 2012, 10:23 PM
So I answered my own question with a bit of research:

Section 129C. No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.

No person shall sell, give away, loan or otherwise transfer a rifle or shotgun or ammunition other than (a) by operation of law, or (b) to an exempt person as hereinafter described, or (c) to a licensed dealer, or (d) to a person who displays his firearm identification card, or license to carry a pistol or revolver.

A seller shall, within seven days, report all such transfers to the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services according to the provisions set forth in section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and in the case of loss, theft or recovery of any firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, a similar report shall be made forthwith to both the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services and the licensing authority in the city or town where the owner resides. Failure to so report shall be cause for suspension or permanent revocation of such person’s firearm identification card or license to carry firearms, or both, and shall be punished by a fine of not less than $200 nor more than $1,000 for a first offense and by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $5,000 for a second offense.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses:

(a) Any device used exclusively for signalling or distress use and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission, or for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition;

(b) Federally licensed firearms manufacturers or wholesale dealers, or persons employed by them or by licensed dealers, or on their behalf, when possession of firearms, rifles or shotguns is necessary for manufacture, display, storage, transport, installation, inspection or testing;

(c) To a person voluntarily surrendering a firearm, rifle or shotgun and ammunition therefor to a licensing authority, the colonel of the state police or his designee if prior written notice has been given by said person to the licensing authority or the colonel of the state police, stating the place and approximate time of said surrender;

(d) The regular and ordinary transport of firearms, rifles or shotguns as merchandise by any common carrier;

(e) Possession by retail customers for the purpose of firing at duly licensed target concessions at amusement parks, piers and similar locations, provided that the firearms, rifles or shotguns to be so used are firmly chained or affixed to the counter and that the proprietor is in possession of a firearm identification card or license to carry firearms;

(f) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresident hunters with valid nonresident hunting licenses during hunting season;

(g) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range;

(h) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case;

(i) Possession of rifles and shotguns by nonresidents while at a firearm showing or display organized by a regularly existing gun collectors’ club or association;

(j) Any resident of the commonwealth returning after having been absent from the commonwealth for not less than 180 consecutive days or any new resident moving into the commonwealth, with respect to any firearm, rifle or shotgun and any ammunition therefor then in his possession, for 60 days after such return or entry into the commonwealth;

(k) Any person under the age of fifteen with respect to the use of a rifle or shotgun by such person in hunting or target shooting, provided that such use is otherwise permitted by law and is under the immediate supervision of a person holding a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms, or a duly commissioned officer, noncommissioned officer or enlisted member of the United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force or Coast Guard, or the National Guard or military service of the commonwealth or reserve components thereof, while in the performance of his duty;

(l) The possession or utilization of any rifle or shotgun during the course of any television, movie, stage or other similar theatrical production, or by a professional photographer or writer for examination purposes in the pursuit of his profession, providing such possession or utilization is under the immediate supervision of a holder of a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms;

(m) The temporary holding, handling or firing of a firearm for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a license to carry firearms, or the temporary holding, handling or firing of a rifle or shotgun for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a firearm identification card, or where such holding, handling or firing is for a lawful purpose;

(n) The transfer of a firearm, rifle or shotgun upon the death of an owner to his heir or legatee shall be subject to the provisions of this section, provided that said heir or legatee shall within one hundred and eighty days of such transfer, obtain a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms if not otherwise an exempt person who is qualified to receive such or apply to the licensing authority for such further limited period as may be necessary for the disposition of such firearm, rifle or shotgun;

(o) Persons in the military or other service of any state or of the United States, and police officers and other peace officers of any jurisdiction, in the performance of their official duty or when duly authorized to possess them;

(p) Carrying or possession by residents or nonresidents of so-called black powder rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor as described in such paragraphs (A) and (B) of the third paragraph of section 121, and the carrying or possession of conventional rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor by nonresidents who meet the requirements for such carrying or possession in the state in which they reside.

[There is no clause (q).]


(r) Possession by a veteran’s organization chartered by the Congress of the United States, chartered by the commonwealth or recognized as a nonprofit tax-exempt organization by the Internal Revenue Service and possession by the members of any such organization when on official parade duty or ceremonial occasions.

(s) Possession by federal, state and local historical societies, museums, and institutional collections open to the public, provided such firearms, rifles or shotguns are unloaded, properly housed and secured from unauthorized handling;

(t) the possession of firearms, rifles, shotguns, machine guns and ammunition, by banks or institutional lenders, or their agents, servants or employees, when the same are possessed as collateral for a secured commercial transaction or as a result of a default under a secured commercial transaction.

(u) Any nonresident who is eighteen years of age or older at the time of acquiring a rifle or shotgun from a licensed firearms dealer; provided, however, that such nonresident must hold a valid firearms license from his state of residence; provided, further, that the licensing requirements of such nonresident’s state of residence are as stringent as the requirements of the commonwealth for a firearm identification card, as determined by the colonel of the state police who shall, annually, publish a list of those states whose requirements comply with the provisions of this clause.

Any person, exempted by clauses (o), (p) and (q), purchasing a rifle or shotgun or ammunition therefor shall submit to the seller such full and clear proof of identification, including shield number, serial number, military or governmental order or authorization, military or other official identification, other state firearms license, or proof of nonresidence, as may be applicable.

Nothing in this section shall permit the sale of rifles or shotguns or ammunition therefor to a minor under the age of eighteen in violation of section one hundred and thirty nor may any firearm be sold to a person under the age of 21 nor to any person who is not licensed to carry firearms under section one hundred and thirty-one unless he presents a valid firearm identification card and a permit to purchase issued under section one hundred and thirty-one A, or presents such permit to purchase and is a properly documented exempt person as hereinbefore described.

Nothing in this section shall permit the sale or transfer of any large capacity rifle or shotgun or large capacity feeding device therefor to any person not in possession of a Class A or Class B license to carry firearms issued under section 131, or of any large capacity firearm or large capacity feeding device therefor to any person not in possession of a Class A license to carry firearms issued under section 131.

The possession of a firearm identification card issued under section one hundred and twenty-nine B shall not entitle any person to carry a firearm in violation of section ten of chapter two hundred and sixty-nine and, the possession of a firearm identification card issued under section 129B shall not entitle any person to possess any large capacity rifle or shotgun or large capacity feeding device therefor in violation of subsection (m) of said section 10 of said chapter 269.

Any person who, while not being within the limits of his own property or residence, or such person whose property or residence is under lawful search, and who is not exempt under this section, shall on demand of a police officer or other law enforcement officer, exhibit his license to carry firearms, or his firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or, after January first, nineteen hundred and seventy, exhibit a valid hunting license issued to him which shall bear the number officially inscribed of such license to carry or card if any. Upon failure to do so such person may be required to surrender to such officer said firearm, rifle or shotgun which shall be taken into custody as under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D, except that such firearm, rifle or shotgun shall be returned forthwith upon presentation within thirty days of said license to carry firearms, firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card or hunting license as hereinbefore described. Any person subject to the conditions of this paragraph may, even though no firearm, rifle or shotgun was surrendered, be required to produce within thirty days said license to carry firearms, firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or said hunting license, failing which the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D will apply. Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from being prosecuted for any violation of this chapter.


I am blown away at how draconian and backward Mass is... why in the world would anyone live in such a backward place???????

It really angers me that there are such asinine backward places like this in our great nation. Entire states of people effectively denied the 2A. :fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Loosedhorse
April 5, 2012, 10:26 PM
I am blown away at how draconian and backward Mass is... why in the world would anyone live in such a backward place???????To live far away from judgmental blow-hards like you, maybe? :evil:

It's not like anything's changed. Bartley-Fox was passed in 1974. I guess we're all glad you're getting up to speed on what's what, so you don't end up in Nashua Street.

Personally, I'm not sure you have a trip coming up at all. This whole thing sounds from the start like a set-up thread just to bash MA. The tip-off is no one could really be so ignorant as to not understand that some places (like So. Cal, NJ, MD, etc.) have laws about this stuff, so you should know them.

Or could they? :scrutiny:

M-Cameron
April 5, 2012, 10:43 PM
as unpleasant as MA gun laws may be....they are pretty straight forward.

the licensing system is as followes:

FID: may posses non large capacity rifles and shotguns. No carry

LTC-B: may posses non large capacity pistols, rifles, and shotguns. No concealed carry

LTC-A: may posses large capacity pistols, rifles, and shotguns. able to Conceal carry

licenses are required for residents and non-residents.......dont have a license, dont bring a gun into the state.


and asside from out pseudo-AWB....there are no restrictions on any ammo, caliber, or type of firearm.

leadcounsel
April 5, 2012, 11:03 PM
Thank you M-Cameron.

I just can't wrap my mind around that law that... but thanks for the breakdown. I guess my gun will stay at home.

It's a shameful law, to say the least.

leadcounsel
April 5, 2012, 11:05 PM
Loosehorse.

I appreciate your replies.

I do have an important trip there soon. Believe me I wouldn't go there unless I had to - I figured the laws were bad but had Never looked into them and NO idea that MA practically destroyed the 2A (along with other states, like you mentioned). I just assumed one of the states where freedom was born would be a little more 'free.'

Loosedhorse
April 5, 2012, 11:13 PM
I appreciate your replies.Then, please, show your appreciation by deleting your comments about my state, and your CLEAR implicationwhy in the world would anyone live in such a backward place???????that those who live here (MEANING ME) are idiots. After my honest posts to you, including information on accessing really knowledgeable people, such insult does not speak well of you.NO idea that MA practically destroyed the 2A (along with other states, like you mentioned).According to some, any state that has ANY gun laws at all has destroyed 2A. So, your state--wherever that may be--has likely "destroyed" it as well.

As to "no idea," well, we all have things to learn.

zoom6zoom
April 5, 2012, 11:21 PM
They make non res permit as hard to get as possible, so you'll give up. It requires a class taken from a MA certified instructor. You must go to Chelsea, MA, for an in person interview, scheduled at THEIR convenience, not yours. (and of course, you can't have your gun with you on that trip). The permit is good for one year, then you get to do all this over again.

For residents, permits are issued (or not) at the whim of the local Chief of Police, so every town is different. Some are practically shall-issue, mostly in the western portions of the state, and others are fuggedhaboutit. And if you DO get a permit, there's no guarantee they will issue a Class A. It's a real patchwork, and what's legal in one town can get you in Dutch just crossing the line on a map. There is no state preemption.

Loosedhorse
April 5, 2012, 11:26 PM
Some are practically shall-issue, mostly in the western portions of the state, and others are fuggedhaboutit.I agree with your entire post (although the bit about out-of-state permits is purely second-hand for me; I have no experience there).

I think we should point out that "fuggedhaboutit" applies to a concealed carry license. Even in places like Boston, getting a permit to own rifles and shotguns, and to keep a handgun in your home and transport it (unloaded, locked and cased) to and from a target range, is pretty straight-forward.

Hey, I got a carry permit from Brookline once! Be impressed! :D

JesseCohen
April 6, 2012, 12:26 AM
It is crucial that some of us stay in Massachusetts and fight. I always hear people say "just move to New Hampshire" or someplace else with less restrictive laws. You know what I say?

"WE ARE AMERICANS!!!!! We don't run from the enemy. It always bewilders me that so many well-meaning 2nd Amendment advocates say if you are in Massachusetts then run!!

Doesn't that completely undermine the Framers intent when they passed the 2nd Amendment?

Run from govt oppression??! Really??! How would the drafters of our Constitution feel about this issue?

Those of us living in Massachusetts need all the help we can get from our brothers in arms from other states. We must not give up on Massachusetts, EVER!!!!

Mxracer239y
April 6, 2012, 06:24 AM
"WE ARE AMERICANS!!!!! We don't run from the enemy.

Isn't running from British oppression exactly what created America? :evil:

Procarry
April 6, 2012, 07:14 AM
as unpleasant as MA gun laws may be....they are pretty straight forward.

the licensing system is as followes:

FID: may posses non large capacity rifles and shotguns. No carry

LTC-B: may posses non large capacity pistols, rifles, and shotguns. No concealed carry

LTC-A: may posses large capacity pistols, rifles, and shotguns. able to Conceal carry

licenses are required for residents and non-residents.......dont have a license, dont bring a gun into the state.


and asside from out pseudo-AWB....there are no restrictions on any ammo, caliber, or type of firearm.

Note: Not all LTC-A allows conceal carry, the LTC-A must state Restrictions: NONE ( if its a bit older, it may also state Restrictions:ALL LAWFUL PURPOSES)

bikerdoc
April 6, 2012, 08:27 AM
Hey, I got a carry permit from Brookline once! Be impressed!
__________________


I am!!!!:)

On topic: OP please dont carry in Ma with out the proper credentials.

Off topic bragging: I was born and raised in Roxbury, Moved to Roslindale when I was 12,
went into the Army at 17, came back in 1970 got a permit, Went on the Police Dept in 73, retired, and started a second career.

I left in 98, not because of the gun laws, or pols like "Mumbles" Mennino.

I left because my second wifes family owned 200 acres in a shall issue state with no snow, no Southeast expressway, no route 128,and rte 9, and no high crime, ( our county had one murder for 225k people in 2010. low property taxes- prop 21/2 was a joke - the basic 2.50 per thousand can be overridden. Here 1.04 per thousand. Schools -we graduate 89%, 71 % accepted to higher education or the military. I leave my house and both trucks unlocked.

I do miss the North End restaurants, Fanual hall, the Bershires, Everything in New Hamshire and Vermont, The Cape beaches, and when I was younger the "combat Zone"(I have been told it is gone now and up scale) greek sub shops, and Channel 4 news.

There are a lot of good people in Ma, keep fighting for change and God Bless.

Loosedhorse
April 6, 2012, 08:33 AM
Jesse C. Cohen
Attorney at LawMr. Cohen is one of the attorneys listed at that website I posted. Guys, if any of you have important questions about MA gun law--PLEASE ASK HIM, professionally, instead of any gun forum.

(No, I do not know him...but I may be giving him a call soon...:))Then, please, show your appreciation by deleting your comments about my state, and your CLEAR implicationHmmm. leadcounsel has not yet decided to act on my request. To me, that bolsters the case that this thread was a hatchet job on MA from the start. If he doesn't remove his negative comments on the Commonwealth and her residents, it sure makes it seem that those unnecessary, low-road attacks are actually central to his purpose, instead of just a frustrated outburst.

Actually, I had suspicions back when he postedWhat about self-defense at a residence house?

Staying with a friend, say someone tries to break in?I mean, what answer did he expect? "Oh, no: the laws change for that. Make sure to mention that you were only concerned about self-defense in a residence, and they'll take those cuffs right off and apologize."

:rolleyes::D Just to be clear: no, they won't.I left because my second wifes family owned 200 acres in a shall issue state with no snow, no Southeast expressway, no route 128,and rte 9, and no high crime, ( our county had one murder for 225k people in 2010. low property taxes- prop 21/2 was a joke - the basic 2.50 per thousand can be overridden. Here 1.04 per thousand. Schools -we graduate 89%, 71 % accepted to higher education or the military. I leave my house and both trucks unlocked.So...why'd you leave, again? ;):DIsn't running from British oppression exactly what created America?Actually George Washington made running from British forces (rather than standing and fighting...and LOSING) an art form.

He rarely attacked--with the notable exception of one Christmas morning. I guess he was drunk! ;)We must not give up on Massachusetts, EVER!!!! Perhaps everyone should remember that people "dumb enough" to live in two of the MOST anti-gun places in the country, DC and Chicago, were the reasons for our recent CRUCIALLY important 2A legal victories. It is very likely that people living in places like NYC, MD, NJ...and even MA will eventually contribute more victories.

Some of you are probably aware of the recent MA ruling that 2A applies to legal resident aliens. So it begins.

tyeo098
April 6, 2012, 10:00 AM
Now just remember who their Governor is... (Mitt Romney)

CoRoMo
April 6, 2012, 04:32 PM
...their Governor is... (Mitt Romney)
Nope. Massachusetts governor is Deval Patrick: http://www.mass.gov/governor/

Jesse C. Cohen,
Hope you visit here often, and welcome! You've shown yourself to be a valuable asset and source of knowledge. Thanks!

bikerdoc
April 6, 2012, 04:51 PM
Jesse C. Cohen


Welcome Atty cohen.

Next time I visit MA lunch/ dinner is on me

M-Cameron
April 6, 2012, 04:58 PM
in all honesty........as a gun owner....living in MA really isnt all that bad....

there is no "proficiency" or "qualifications" needed to CCW, assuming you live in a town with a half reasonable police chief, all you need is to take a basic pistol/ hunters safety course and fill out some paper work, and youre good to go.....

no waiting periods

very few restrictions on where you can CCW, i believe the only places you cannot carry are schools and federal buildings......

and you will never see a "no guns allowed" sign.....anywhere.

Midwest
April 6, 2012, 05:09 PM
in all honesty........as a gun owner....living in MA really isnt all that bad....


very few restrictions on where you can CCW, i believe the only places you cannot carry are schools and federal buildings......

and you will never see a "no guns allowed" sign.....anywhere.



Mass is better than Ohio in that respect. In Ohio it seems there are a lot of "No firearms permitted" signs.

JesseCohen
April 6, 2012, 09:01 PM
Thank you for the warm welcome gentlemen.

tyeo098
April 6, 2012, 09:14 PM
Was* :P

He signed the Mass state AWB and fully supported it.

knoxy
April 7, 2012, 08:41 AM
Just keep driving and come up to NH. ;) We like guns up here. I try to avoid MA at all costs...except i work down there. :( I won't even bring my pistol down there to go to the range with friends.

knoxy
April 7, 2012, 08:43 AM
"He signed the Mass state AWB and fully supported it."

The MA AWB would've continued with or with out Romney. In his favor, he did end the "Permanent" AWB by adding a sunset clause to it.

Loosedhorse
April 7, 2012, 10:44 AM
In his favor, he did end the "Permanent" AWB by adding a sunset clause to it. No. There is no sunset clause.

Mastrogiacomo
April 7, 2012, 11:08 AM
Whatever you do, remember, no open carry. It's not allowed so if you're passing through with the gun and wearing it, be sure it's out of view.

Laura

Loosedhorse
April 7, 2012, 06:34 PM
OC is allowed in Mass with a Class A license. Not commonly practiced,I don't believeJD, it is legal in theory. However, if someone sees you and 911s, you might get arrested. At gun-point.

Also, your chief of police can decide you are no longer "suitable" and pull your license.

Our state GOAL recommends: "Never use “open carry” in Massachusetts." (http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/nonresapply.html)

Mastrogiacomo
April 7, 2012, 07:39 PM
All the agents in my office never open carry outside. I asked about that one time, why they couldn't carry without hiding it always and an agent responded, "No open carry in Massachusetts." It seems the liberals freely attack anyone in this state.....:mad:


Laura

JesseCohen
April 7, 2012, 08:06 PM
JD, it is legal in theory. However, if someone sees you and 911s, you might get arrested. At gun-point.

Also, your chief of police can decide you are no longer "suitable" and pull your license.

Our state GOAL recommends: "Never use “open carry” in Massachusetts." (http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/nonresapply.html)
I agree. Some bogus disturbing the peace charge could result. By open carrying you are making yourself vulnerable to those who would fabricate a 911 "man with a GUN did this that or the other thing to me........" If you look a someone the wrong way you are suddenly a "guy with a gun threatened me". Once the word "gun!" is heard on the 911 call,
everything else could soundlike (wah wah wha wha wah)(Charlie Brown's teacher). Open carry in most settings is not a good idea at all. And come to think of it, why would someone want to take away a most valuable defensive advantage against an assailant. In my opinion concealed carry makes the most sense for personal protection.

Axel Larson
April 7, 2012, 09:10 PM
Let;s not have this digress into a OC versus CC thread, please there are a number of threads if you search for them that cover that.
I would disagree that MA is not bad for gun owners, ten round limit, may issue, no thanks, congrats to those who make it work and fight for their rights in the state. I will stick to Vermont.

glennv
April 7, 2012, 10:40 PM
If you operate under the assumption that EVERYTHING is illegal in MA you'll be just fine. Moved many years ago to RI, which sucks as bad as MA when it comes to everything but firearms. MA takes the cake.

Loosedhorse
April 7, 2012, 10:48 PM
I sometimes go through western Mass instead of taking the N.Y. Thruway up to cut across to Bennington,VT.I think that's no problem, as long as your firearm is properly stored in your trunk and you are not "detaining" yourself in MA. FOPA.

I mean, I doubt you're any "safer" with properly stowed guns in NYS than in MA...so why burn the extra gas?

:D

whalerman
April 7, 2012, 11:32 PM
We are seeing yet another example of how people are happy when their government grants them little bitty bits of freedom. They lap it up and are extremely grateful. For us living in restricted rights states it is an insidious disease. We insist it "ain't that bad". To people from free regions of the country, it is difficult to understand. Don't hold it against us.

A Tired NYer who deals with the same unconstitutional government as my MA friends

zoom6zoom
April 8, 2012, 12:52 AM
I think we should point out that "fuggedhaboutit" applies to a concealed carry license. Even in places like Boston, getting a permit to own rifles and shotguns, and to keep a handgun in your home and transport it (unloaded, locked and cased) to and from a target range, is pretty straight-forward.

Yeah, I should have made it clear I was referring to carry permits and not FID cards (which are not issued to non residents). When I got my FID, they were two bucks and had no expiration, which I know has changed. I took a job transfer South and did not return. At the time I left I was very active in GOAL and was also my club rep.

whalerman
April 8, 2012, 12:53 AM
No, you're not any safer in NY than in MA. If you're a drug dealer or a criminal the first thing they throw out is the gun charge. If you're a law abiding citizen you're in for a very bad time. If you think you're going to help yourself by skirting one state or the other you are kidding yourself. Go unarmed. If confronted with a thug, beg. Just like most do with their rights in this part of the country. "It ain't that bad".

peyton
April 8, 2012, 05:34 AM
I made a trip to Boston from Texas in 2001. Had my S&W with me the whole time. My wife who was working there and she went ballistic when she found out!!
Leadcounsel is a stand up guy who I have known for years, we have shared the same sand and risk in Iraq!

M-Cameron
April 8, 2012, 07:36 AM
I would disagree that MA is not bad for gun owners, ten round limit, may issue, no thanks, congrats to those who make it work and fight for their rights in the state. I will stick to Vermont.

We are seeing yet another example of how people are happy when their government grants them little bitty bits of freedom. They lap it up and are extremely grateful. For us living in restricted rights states it is an insidious disease. We insist it "ain't that bad". To people from free regions of the country, it is difficult to understand. Don't hold it against us.


hey now......never once did i say MA was a freedom Mecca and a gun owners paradise....

i said it is not as bad as out-of-staters think it is.....the only real "anti-gun" places ive seen are Boston and the greater Boston area......and central/western MA is actually pretty gun friendly.

heck, within a 30min drive....there are literally 12-15 gun clubs/ranges in my area......so the shooting sports must be alive and well.

whalerman
April 8, 2012, 07:46 AM
That seems to be the story told again and again. We have our NY City which makes the entire state an East Germany. The state of Illinois has its Chicago. You have your Boston. The key seems to be to live in a state where there is no city that has complete control over the rest of the state. I don't think the presence of gun clubs means you have much freedom. Britain has a bunch of gun clubs too.

M-Cameron
April 8, 2012, 07:59 AM
I don't think the presence of gun clubs means you have much freedom. Britain has a bunch of gun clubs too.

never meant it to mean we have much freedom......i brought that up to show that MA still has a strong shooting culture....

whalerman
April 8, 2012, 08:17 AM
I understand. We're in the same boat you're in. Here in NY we're lost an awful lot over the years. I sometimes react when I hear people sound happy with limited rights. But I'm not pointing to problems we ourselves don't have. Its a beautiful day in FAR upstate NY. Its still America up here.

Mastrogiacomo
April 8, 2012, 09:40 AM
One area where MA has other states beat is we have a "list" of guns were can't get. Even if it's on the list, we often can't buy here. Glocks is just one of many examples. We had them for what - maybe a week or longer before they pulled them on the orders of AG Tom Riley for not being hard enough to function properly - thereby not "in compliant" to MA standards? You can view it here:

http://www.fsguns.com/malawsandregs.html



Laura

Rodman579
April 8, 2012, 10:32 AM
i will say this and its just my opinion so dont take it the wrong way as i am a gun owner and love guns. i make my living working on guns.

i am from Charlestown, grew up there and left when i was 24. if anyone knows that area back in the day it was rough. i never saw anyone flashing guns very often. most guys would fist fight or some one might tune you up if you were in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time. but being from there we all had the mentality if you used a gun you were a puss. i never felt as i needed a gun and i hung out in many bad areas. i was in the coffee truck business at the age of 17 working in Southie, that was another rough business but still only saw a gun pulled once. i am just saying i have lived there in the worst parts of it and never felt the need to be armed with a gun. i did always carried a louisville slugger behind the seat of my truck. when i left there it was starting to become yuppyville and things were starting to change slightly.

i live in the Florida now and have for quite sometime. now here i always have a gun with me. mainly cause the culture is different here, everyone has them and more than likely someone will use a gun rather than go toe to toe with you. plus where i live it would take at least 20 minutes before the police got here.

but anyhow i am just getting at that personally i would not feel the need to be armed if i was in New England again. everytime i go back which is at least twice a year i never feel the need to be carrying a gun. of course if i moved back there i would proudly own guns as i love shooting and competing.

i do think the gun laws in MA are alittle on the tough side but if you have ever lived there you know they make you jump through hoops to do anything up there, lol.

Mastrogiacomo
April 8, 2012, 11:00 AM
When I applied for a permit the police chief told me to study martial arts and use pepper spray because I didn't "know anything about guns." That was reason enough not to issue me a Class A. Meanwhile, this same person had a cop under his command that regularly beat up his mother. It was brushed under the rug for years. Eventually he put her in the hospital and she died not long after from the beating. Only then, when he was charged with manslaughter or murder - I don't recall which - and taken off duty. It always burns me that I obey the laws and have absolutely no record or history of violence but a cop is always assumed to be much better than me, and has more of a right to carry, because he has a badge and I don't. I do have a Class A now - and I'm still a nonviolent person. I guess that doesn't make me much of a gun owner in that police chief's eyes.....:barf:


Laura

Rodman579
April 8, 2012, 11:15 AM
Laura, i understand what you mean. i always respected the cops up there cause they could get away with murder, lol. i had relatives that married into my mothers side of the family and two of them were LE. them boys were all on the take and did as they pleased. i would never cross them.

whalerman
April 9, 2012, 12:11 AM
Mastrogio..I'm not sure what your point is on that gun list thing. Really, it doesn't mean you have anyone beat. It means they have YOU beat. Imagine, the Glock, safe enough for the police lawyers around the world, but not safe enough for a corrupt politician from MA. What was his name, Tom Riley? That's a name to remember. We have our Chuck Schumers and Bloombergs. When people make stupid decisions that effect freedom, I believe their names should be made famous. Thanks for adding one more to the list. Tom Riley. Keep up the fight.

drsfmd
April 9, 2012, 12:58 PM
No DTR in your residence.

But a non-resident can't exactly have a residence, can he? I don't think he would be covered doing this at a friend's house...

Loosedhorse
April 9, 2012, 10:28 PM
That's a reasonable question. However, I think any place where you are legally "in for the night," where your family would be tucked in and gathered, would fall under this concept whether it is a friend's house of a hotel room. The MA statute (http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleII/Chapter278/Section8A) in question reads:In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling. I don't think that all the possible meanings of "dwelling" have been sorted out by case law, but I would expect it to be about what I outlined above. IANAL.

leadcounsel
April 10, 2012, 12:54 AM
To anyone still interested in this thread, thank you for all of the responses. Very eye opening and informative.

I decided the law was too vague and left my gun at home. No need to risk being arrested for an otherwise lawful activity in an antigun state.

Visited Boston and it's a wonderful beautiful city. A real shame that a place born from the blood and sacrifices of true patriots has sunken to such an antifreedom level. I could never live there or anywhere in Mass. I enjoyed the city, checked out a lot of historic areas and the USS Constitution. Really a fun trip. Not sad to leave though.

Amazes me that in the USA an activity (possessing a gun, magazine, ammo, etc.) can be a felony in state XYZ but completely normal and legal in neighboring state ABC. Mind boggling and one would think that a 14th Amendment argument or Equal Protections Under the Laws argument would be successful...

Loosedhorse
April 10, 2012, 08:18 AM
Mind boggling and one would think that a 14th Amendment argument or Equal Protections Under the Laws argument would be successful...Might be someday. Of course, you'd have to show that inability to possess a magazine without a license is violative of the 2A upheld in Heller. Heller admitted that certain prohibitions and qualifications were not in doubt.

It may be a "real shame" that we live in a country with such a benighted Supreme Court...but there it is. ;)

rajb123
April 10, 2012, 01:16 PM
I'm a NY resident. I traveled to Mass on business for a few weeks in 2010 and I was not permitted to buy ammo, powder, bullets, brass, primers, etc. in Mass.

Apparently, you need a license to buy these common products that are readily available in all neighboring states. In the sporting goods stores, these items aer kept in locked cases!

...makes you wondewr what these pols were thinking when they passed these laws... I assume Teddy had something to do with this...

zoom6zoom
April 10, 2012, 02:09 PM
Possession of pepper spray requires an FID, so even that's denied to non-residents.

Loosedhorse
April 10, 2012, 02:39 PM
When I moved to MA, I asked how I could bring in my modest pistol collection and was told, "You need a license to carry." I clarified that I didn't want to carry a firearm, I just wanted to own my pistols legally.

There was a pause, then somewhat patient, somewhat exasperated ("Why do I always get the mentally chanllenged ones?") tone when he said, "Yes. You need a license to carry."

So, I got I license to carry. And now I carry. If he had said, "Just bring them in, nothing required" I don't know when or even if I would have started carrying.

leadcounsel
April 10, 2012, 11:59 PM
It's good and it's bad

With all due respect, I see NOTHING good about Mass approach to gun control. I see only negatives. Restricting law abiding folks from guns and ammo - ironically in one of the founding states to this free country - is absurd. Mass is no more or less safe than the other states that recognize the 2A, allow over the counter sales of ammo and guns, FTF sales, shall issue carry permits, etc.

But INDIVIDUALS are denied rights, and those are important rights to self defense. There is NOTHING more important, not property rights, not taxes, not speech, nothing...

Little Wolf
April 12, 2012, 03:09 PM
This whole thing sounds from the start like a set-up thread just to bash MA.

Good. Mass deserve to be bashed. I used to live there. His outrage is normal, natural, and good. The sad part is that there used to be a lot of "hunters" and gun owners that lived there. Most of them just rolled over without any resistance whatsoever.

as unpleasant as MA gun laws may be....they are pretty straight forward....

and asside from out pseudo-AWB....there are no restrictions on any ammo, caliber, or type of firearm.

WRONG, just WRONG! It sickens me how people that live in MA REFUSE to see just how bad their situation is. It's almost as if a subconscious delusion, "It's not that bad". The Attorney General has an entire list of handguns that are "banned". Any new handgun (pistol or revolver) that is to be sold in MA HAS To pass the attorney general's "safety test". Which is a mere subjective assessment of what guns he does and does not want the state's subjects to have. IE, glocks are banned, but state police can own and carry glocks (What the?).

Mass is the WORST state in the union when it comes to guns or self defense, period.

What other state do you need a FIREARMS permit to BUY, own, or carry a BB gun or pepper spray????

Midwest
April 12, 2012, 04:30 PM
What other state do you need a FIREARMS permit to BUY, own, or carry a BB gun or pepper spray????

New Jersey, Hawaii, Puerto Rico for starters...Pepper spray allowed in NJ with no permit

Pistol Permit needed for Pistol BB Gun in NJ
Firearms Permit ID Card needed for BB Gun rifle in NJ

Other states restrict BB Guns, and even pepper sprays...

Little Wolf
April 12, 2012, 04:40 PM
Ok, no permit for pepper spray.... Mass is worse.

Puerto Rico is not a US state.....

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