Hi, you 1911 experts. I have a question for you and would appreciate your inputs on this pistol.
I'm thinking of a 1911 based pistol exclusively for range use, and I have come across an announcement in a Spanish web that caught my attention.
The pistol in question is a Llama Max II CL. You may think it funny that I ask about a pistol that was made in my own country :rolleyes:, but you know, there isn't much a proper 1911 community here (therefore, not many knowledgeable people able to answer questions) and I have shot Llama pistols just a couple of times. I know little to nothing about them.
So far, all i know is that is a 1911 based double stack model. The pistol comes with two barrels, a 9mm/.45ACP, and four magazines, three .45ACP and one 9mm. The vendor is asking 500€ for the whole thing.
Problem is, the pistol is some 500 kms away from my place and I won't be able to have a look at it personally in the close future. The price tag seems just slightly above what I'd say it's reasonable for this pistol, considering you get two barrels and that I'd love to have a .45 for range fun.
I have read mixed reviews on Llama 1911s, and IIRC, the double stacks didn't have a good reputation. Would love to know why.
So that's it. Inputs appreciated.
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April 5, 2012, 03:04 PM
I own a Llama "Especial" in 45 ACP. It was bought around 1964 and to this day it's still a fine shooter. It's rough, lots of tool marks, uneven blueing but it shoots just fine.
The major problem with my gun is basically the same as all "ancient" guns: parts are very hard to come by and they are often quite expensive. And there's no guarantee they will "drop in" if you find them at all.
Magazines for mine are no longer made so I'm stuck with two that have aging springs. I replaced the springs with those for a GI model but the fit is poor and the springs drag badly on the inside of the magazine. I'm told a certain makers mags will work ... I've been told that before. Given their cost, I'll just use the ones I have until they fail completely. One will not lock back the slide after the last round has fired. It never has. And the safety is essentially frozen in the "off" position because of the extra deep plunger detent/depression. It takes a King Kong thumb to move it to the "on" position.
I like my Llama 45, but I have to understand what it is: a cheap gun that is basically no longer supported. When I say cheap, I mean $70US NIB.
I take it out a couple of times a year, but the next time something breaks, it goes back into the safe and will likely never be fired again. Not planning on that anytime soon, but I have had the gun for almost fifty years and I know it's operating characteristics quite well.
April 5, 2012, 03:11 PM
50 euros sure, but not 500.
April 5, 2012, 03:23 PM
I'm not at all clear how a .45 1911 could be converted successfully to shoot 9mm using just a barrel & magazine?
On a real 1911 at least, there are major differences on the slide breach face cut, extractor location, and ejector location.
The .45 ACP cartridge IS that much bigger then a 9mm cartridge!
And I'd have to see it work to believe it worked.
As for the value of a Llama pistol?
To me they would be more desirable if the company was still in business and you could get parts for them.
April 5, 2012, 03:46 PM
Well, yes, it looks like overpriced to me, too, but I don't know if that much as to ask this guy to sell it to me for 50€... ;)
Spare parts are still available at Iparguns. That doesn't concern me too much. I was mostly worried for the reliability and accuracy of the pistol, and its overall quality.
Rcmodel, I neither know how you can convert from .45 to 9mm that easily, but it looks like it's not impossible. What the outcome of the "conversion" is remains unknown...
I've been looking at Norinco, too. Again, I think I've read that the double stack models are to be avoided. The single stack thing doesn't bother me the least bit, since this gun would be mostly for target shooting, and perhaps shoot some IPSC matches in the new "classic" division.
April 5, 2012, 08:57 PM
I have owned the full size double stack IX-C. It is the same design as the Para double stack. I presently own the MaxII SC. It's like the warthog. Both have proven to be reliable with the usual 1911 and Llama tweaks like polishing the mating parts and chamber. I do see an issue with it taking both the 9mm round and the ,45ACP round like others have said. I believe it was a .45 and he bought a 9mm barrel and mag or the other way around. It may function with both barrels but the extractor would not be reliable on the round it was not intended for. If you buy it for fair market value for a single caliber then you should be ok. Maybe. Llamas are hit or miss but their Max line was their best offering in the later years.