I Have An Interview For A Security Firm Tomorrow


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LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 5, 2012, 05:41 PM
Hi guys,

Like the title says, I have an interview at noon tomorrow for a security firm called "Securitas."

My question is, would you guys suggest conceal carrying at work?

I was talking to the HR guy today on the phone, and they seem pro-gun, pro-carry, what-not, and even asked me on the application if I had a permit-to-carry (I don't, but I'm planning on changing that real soon).

From what it sounds, conceal carry isn't against company policy, but I will find out more about this down the road, especially if I nail the job.

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Steel Horse Rider
April 5, 2012, 05:44 PM
I would say the necessity of carry would depend on the type of work. Is it an alarm company and would you be doing installations, monitoring from a central location or is it a rent-a-cop position?

Owen
April 5, 2012, 05:50 PM
I'd guess that they will clearly define their expectations when you're hired. In my experience companies want to know if you have a CCW permit, because it gets them out of doing a criminal background check.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 5, 2012, 05:54 PM
Well, it's like a rent-a-cop thing. And I'm going to try to get it in black-and-white what their policies are.

mgregg85
April 5, 2012, 05:55 PM
Idk about wherever you will be working but I got fired by securitas for carrying on the job. I knew it was against policy, I just didn't care.

I was carrying a P3AT on an ankle holster, the mag popped out and I didn't notice it but the lady guard I was training saw it fall out and reported me. I was fired later that day. I sold that damn P3AT about a week later.

If you're gonna carry at work I would suggest a small revolver or auto in one of those holster shirts that 5.11 sells. Just be prepared to lose your job of they catch you.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 5, 2012, 05:59 PM
I can, through experimentation, fully conceal a Glock 22 on my hip IWB and not show any sign, unless of course I have to tuck the shirt in. Might give me a reason to pick up a pocket pistol. I'm not sure though.

Black Knight
April 5, 2012, 06:04 PM
I did private contract security for nearly 16 years (1978 - 1994 Armed /Unarmed Security Officer, Private Investigator/Detective). I was armed most of the time and had a concealed carry permit for about half of the time. The reason they would like to know is that it makes you more flexible in job assignments. If you did not have a permit then they could not send you on an assignment that required concealed carry. Remember the client usually determines the requirements for the job assignment, and the security company finds a person to fill those requirements.

Double_J
April 5, 2012, 06:07 PM
Securitas is a contract security company. Some of their posts require the security officer to be armed, and they will provide a security guard gun permit and a gun. Most of their posts are unarmed and you will NOT be allowed to carry. As has been stated previously you will be fired for carry. Your pay will also depend on what contract you are working, some like walmart will pay little to nothing, others like a chemical plant/secure facility will pay much better.

I know this because a friend of mine was a shift supervisor for Securitas for about 3 years. He got tired of the B.S. they kept giving him and he left for greener pastures. Keep an open mind with them, you might do well there, but remember that you are easily replaced.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 5, 2012, 06:13 PM
Yes, as I've found through other lines of work. Being replaced by someone more qualified has happened quite a bit, even though I was state certified for the types of welding I was doing, when they didn't, but had more years of experience.

Devonai
April 5, 2012, 07:47 PM
As the others have been stated, carrying without permission in writing will get you canned. I worked for PGS, which is owned by Securitas, for almost four years, primarily at an armed site. Those occasions I worked for an unarmed site (for far lower pay, natch), were unhappy days for me, since the threat profile was arguably just as high.

Do what you have to do to make ends meet, and move on to a different career field as soon as possible.

bk42261
April 5, 2012, 09:38 PM
I applied for a job with a "Security Company" for a job on an armored car detail. You were required to pass all the tests, etc. , but were NOT allowed ANY live ammo in your weapon on an armored truck.
I'll pass on the "carry an empty gun" to protect someone else's money.

LeonCarr
April 5, 2012, 09:53 PM
No live ammo...heck no.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

EmGeeGeorge
April 5, 2012, 10:04 PM
A job is a job... But.
Do some Internet detective-ry... Lotsa disgruntled former employees... Look up how Securitas treated the military working dogs they had for the gov't... Really sickening.
I know of a securitas site near me where the guards are forbidden even a pocket knife.
It's all about liability...

STL73
April 6, 2012, 02:13 AM
I second the comment on reviewing a company first....

mljdeckard
April 6, 2012, 02:41 AM
Even worse than getting fired for carrying, imagine you actually use it in a defensive encounter. You feel legitimately threatened, so you draw, bad guy runs away. Sues your company for.....whatever. The company is forced to state that you were carrying on your own, against policy, now you will be fighting with them over who is liable. Since you violated company policies, they will likely throw you to the wolves.

If you are required to carry, it will be a stainless S&W which they will provide.

On a more practical note, security jobs suck. Now I just went through a stretch of unemployment myself, but I would have to be REALLY desperate to work security again. You are loved by NO ONE. I really mean that. The only reason you are there is to allow the company to get a better rate on their insurance. They do NOT appreciate the work you are doing. If you actually prevent an injury or point out something that is unsafe, it is more money out of their pocket and more paperwork. If you are effective, and everything gets boring, they hate you even more because they think there is no reason to have you there in the first place. They are mad that they can't make you fold pamphlets in your downtime. And just wait until you ever have to confront any employee about anything as a 'non-cop'. Do what you have to man, but I would look HARD for something else.

bikerdoc
April 6, 2012, 09:33 AM
LB do what you got to do to take care of your family. But keep looking my friend, you deserve better, God Bless.
Doc

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 6, 2012, 10:14 AM
I have worked for two security companies, and carried at both. One of them was armed the other was not. For the unarmed, I just concealed in a 5.11 holster shirt. If I carry when I'm out at night on my own time, why shouldn't I carry when I'm out at night for someone else? I know, it might have gotten me fired, but it's my life. A job is just a job.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 6, 2012, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Just need something to pay the bills.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 6, 2012, 10:39 AM
On a more practical note, security jobs suck.

True, but not for all. "Security" can range from $8.00 rent-a-cop jobs that are just as you say, to Blackwater and other contracting companies who carry M4s and can make 6 figures on the job. Many nuclear power plants, federal buildings, and hospitals use private armed security, and they have significaly higher quality people and training.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 6, 2012, 10:43 AM
Well I really wish I was making 6 figures with this job.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 6, 2012, 10:52 AM
Any nuclear power plants or federal buildings near you?

ClickClickD'oh
April 6, 2012, 11:13 AM
True, but not for all. "Security" can range from $8.00 rent-a-cop jobs that are just as you say, to Blackwater and other contracting companies who carry M4s and can make 6 figures on the job. Many nuclear power plants, federal buildings, and hospitals use private armed security, and they have significaly higher quality people and training.

This is absolutely correct. My company does everything from $8.00/hr Wal-Mart parking lots to $25.00/hr executive protection details. That's the guard pay BTW, not the bill rate. You can imagine how much the high end guys make when they work on a disaster coverage team.. that's pretty much pure over time.

One thing to consider about carrying a concealed weapon on duty other than it will most certainly get you fired if you are doing so without direct authorization, it may be illegal where you are. Here in TX where we are based, a lvl II officer may not carry any firearms, a lvl III may carry a firearm in plain sight and a lvl IV officer may carry one concealed or in plain sight. Having a CHL does not change that. So, check your local laws carefully in case it effects you while you are on the job.

Also, don't mistake place that don't allow you to carry on the job for being anti-gun. When they put you in uniform and put you on post, they assume a huge financial liability. If you were to shoot someone while on the job, the company would be financially responsible for that. Without being certain of your training and capabilities, they would have to be epically stupid to allow you to carry a firearm. That's why I don't allow new hires to be armed, no matter what your resume or qualifications say. New guards work for us for several months before they are considered for an armed position.

EvilGenius
April 6, 2012, 11:24 AM
One thing to consider about carrying a concealed weapon on duty other than it will most certainly get you fired if you are doing so without direct authorization, it may be illegal where you are. Here in TX where we are based, a lvl II officer may not carry any firearms, a lvl III may carry a firearm in plain sight and a lvl IV officer may carry one concealed or in plain sight. Having a CHL does not change that. So, check your local laws carefully in case it effects you while you are on the job.

Also, don't mistake place that don't allow you to carry on the job for being anti-gun. When they put you in uniform and put you on post, they assume a huge financial liability. If you were to shoot someone while on the job, the company would be financially responsible for that. Without being certain of your training and capabilities, they would have to be epically stupid to allow you to carry a firearm. That's why I don't allow new hires to be armed, no matter what your resume or qualifications say. New guards work for us for several months before they are considered for an armed position.

This.

My gf is a lvl 4 security guard here in DFW and I've asked her about some of the specifics of that.

I can't throw any trustworthy info out there, but I know it'd be illegal for her to carry if she had anything below level 3 and she is forbidden from carrying a knife. Though the knife bit is a company matter, rather than legal.

paramedic70002
April 6, 2012, 12:23 PM
Back in my young buck days I did a few years as an armed security officer and supervisor in VA. I never worked unarmed but we had a couple unarmed contracts. The managers at those places encouraged the armed certified SOs to arm up anyway, corporate just didn't want to pay extra for armed SOs.
I wouldn't take a job that sent me out unarmed, or with any screwy rules like "no bullets" and whatnot. YMMV.

Agsalaska
April 6, 2012, 01:34 PM
A lot of talk about carrying when you are not supposed to. I would advise against carrying a gun to work anyplace where your work legally forbids it. Thats just not smart. Whether or not they should or should not have that policy doesnt matter. They have it and employees should abide by it.

tomrkba
April 6, 2012, 02:01 PM
There was no concealed carry in their office when I worked there.

Review their employment manual. It may be based upon the local manager's decision and he or she gives you approval, carry on. Otherwise, you're playing by Big Boy Rules.

gym
April 6, 2012, 03:36 PM
I worked for a pivate ATM company, loading and repairing, sometimes both at once. I loated about 35-37 machines per day, which meant I could easily have 100,000+, on me in 20's, in the morning.My boss was my ex partner in the Gym business. As it was just he and I, most of the time, we could carry anything we decided on. He chose not to carry at all many times. I never did that. He has since expanded in the last ten years, to close to 700 machines, and I don't know how many people, since although I do see him socially, he never talks about it to me anymore.
I felt very uncomfortable doing this after a couple months, and after 6 months my nerves were shot. I was driving over 200 miles per day, and most of it was either in Miami, or West Palm Beach,although I did go to Homestead, "talk about feeling alone", and Jupiter. He still does drops himself even though he has become quite wealthy. He gets a rush out of it, and having a court case over his head for a couple years, he wasn't allowed to carry a gun. This was almost 8 yrs ago now. But I never asked about licenses, he said since it was a private business we didn't need any. The pay was good, but the risk was not worth it.

Agsalaska
April 6, 2012, 03:44 PM
If the money is insured he and his employees are probably better off without weapons. Insurance is usually cheaper than shootings. Just let them have it.


Edit-Reply to post 28

HOOfan_1
April 6, 2012, 03:54 PM
Insurance is usually cheaper than shootings. Just let them have it.



"just let them have it" is hardly ensuring that you will not be shot and killed.

Guess you have to ask yourself, are you willing to be fired and possibly prosecuted in order to protect your life.

MedWheeler
April 6, 2012, 04:13 PM
I didn't check all the responses, but concealed carry while on duty as a SO, even with a permit, is illegal in some states unless required by the position (plainclothes protection agent, for example.) My home state of Florida is one, and the only other one I know of, because I was asked to research it, is Alabama. So, check your state laws as well.

Edit: I just saw the point made in post 22, which adds Texas to the list as well.

Agsalaska
April 6, 2012, 05:49 PM
"just let them have it" is hardly ensuring that you will not be shot and killed.

Guess you have to ask yourself, are you willing to be fired and possibly prosecuted in order to protect your life.
So having a weapon on you ensures your life. The overwhelming majority of robberies in the usa end peacefully because the employees let them have it. In most environments your life is far safer when there are no weapons and the robbers are aloud to take it. Just ask any major employer in the usa.

Agsalaska
April 6, 2012, 05:51 PM
"just let them have it" is hardly ensuring that you will not be shot and killed.

Guess you have to ask yourself, are you willing to be fired and possibly prosecuted in order to protect your life.
So having a weapon on you ensures your life? The overwhelming majority of robberies in the usa end peacefully because the employees let them have it. In most environments your life is far safer when there are no weapons and the robbers are aloud to take it. Just ask any major employer in the usa. There is a reason most are not armed and it is not because they are not robbed.

Now atm loading could be different but not necesarily. The big factors are training and familiar surroundings, neither of which could he guarantee, especially as his business grew. So assuming insurance prices were attainable then yes, he is better off not allowing his carriers guns. They are safer without them.

HOOfan_1
April 7, 2012, 12:59 AM
So having a weapon on you ensures your life?

More than not having one...
Not being armed means you are putting your life in the hands of the criminals...you are trusting them to leave you alone if you give them what they want.

Most people don't carry because they expect to get attacked, they carry because they MIGHT be attacked. We are talking about people in jobs that are more likely to draw armed criminals. There are PLENTY of examples of people being killed even when they give the criminals what they want.

Besides, being armed doesn't negate the option of giving them what they want. If you are armed (concealed carry preferably), you have MORE choices. You can give them what they want, or if the situation looks like it is deteriorating you can defend yourself.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 7, 2012, 01:05 AM
Just to let you guys know, I did land the job. Well, I was offered a position pending drug screen and criminal background checks for three counties. They'll both come back clean, no worries.

I might actually just get a pocket pistol and carry like that, because I'd rather lose a job than my life.

Kendahl
April 7, 2012, 01:29 AM
Although most robberies end peacefully, there are a significant number that go bad. When that happens, having a gun may not ensure your survival but not having one will ensure your death.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 03:57 AM
Remember. You guys are speaking for yourselves. As in you specifically would be safer. This may be true, but businesses aren't viewing it the same way. I know a lot of people as we all do. I know very very few that would be safer in a robbery with a gun. There is a reason the vast vast majority of retailers do not let their people carry or keep guns. And it is not because not having one makes it more dangerous. I hat to quote a stat I can't put my finger on, but the number of victim fatalities in commercial armed robberies where the victim was unarmed is one in somewhere in the five figure range. The number for armed victims is one in two figures. That's why your insurance and liability are far cheaper if you do not arm folks.
Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread. Congratulations on the job. I hope you find success there. However I certainly would not suggest you carry a weapon if the company does not allow it. As has been pointed out it could be illegal depending on where you live. Besides that they are the authorities and have their reasons. I would hope a new employee could respect management. If you feel you cannot function in that role without a firearm than maybe the job just is not for you.

BSA1
April 7, 2012, 09:52 AM
I find your attitude deeply disturbing.

When you accept employment with ANY company you AGREE to their conditions of employment. You have publicly come onto the wire, identified the company you are going to work and are stating your intention to violate company policy by carrying a firearm. Your comment "I might actually just get a pocket pistol and carry like that, because I'd rather lose a job than my life. " shows that you have not given any consideration into the legal problems you will be encountering if you use a unauthorized firearm. Just ask George Zimmerman about all the trouble he is facing...

HOOfan_1
April 7, 2012, 09:55 AM
Remember. You guys are speaking for yourselves.

So are you...that is generally how message boards work...

Most companies don't allow their employees to be armed due to liablity, plain and simple. They can't trust that their employees are trained properly to keep them from shooting the wrong person or to know when the right time to use the weapon is.

Once again I am having to double check to make sure I am on an right to keep and bear arms website...

Many of us are posting on a RKBA website because we believe in the right to defend ourselves, and not leave it up to providence, or someone else...

A properly trained person is better off being armed, then they have the choice of compliance or active defense. If they are not armed, their only hope is compliance will save their life. I don't see how that can be disputed. I always thought most people who concealed carried argued that they don't do it because they expect to have to use the gun, but because they MIGHT have to. But the companies cannot count on their employees being properly trained and they can't spend the time or money to train them either. There are plenty of companies out there that are more concerned about their liablity than your life. Google "dead peasant insurance" and that will show you how much some of these firms care about their empolyees.

Gtimothy
April 7, 2012, 09:58 AM
I've been working a security gig for a couple of years now but we are NOT allowed to carry under any circumstances. I am a certified "D" and "G" security officer ("G" is an armed security officer licence) but our company doesn't have armed posts. I also have my CCW permit but I was told that if I carried on the job, I would be terminated. I have mixed feelings about the issue but I need to have a job and can't afford to lose it. If I was standing a post in a more sketchy area, I might decide to chance it and carry. However as a guard for a 55+ residential community, I'm not really in too much danger unless you count the squirrels! :D

Trunk Monkey
April 7, 2012, 10:08 AM
As a general rule private security guards are prohibted by law from carrying a concealed weapon on shift. It will not only get you fired it imay get you arrested.

I have talked to some friends that worked at the Olympic Training Center when Securitas got the contract and they hated the company.

Their main complaint was that immediately upon geting the contract Securitas cut the guard's pay.

Second complaint Securitas apparently requires their guards to do "light janitorial work" during their shift

I wouldn't work for Securitas unless I had no option

statelineblues
April 7, 2012, 11:26 AM
Congrats on landing the new job!

I wouldn't work for Securitas unless I had no option

I have worked for several contract Security companies. I have worked for Securitas - the only thing it gave me was a chance to get a better job, which I did eight months after joining them.
I have PA Act 235 certification, which is what a person needs to work as an armed guard in Pennsylvania, but the post Securitas sent me to was unarmed and I could not carry on the job.

I applied for a job with a "Security Company" for a job on an armored car detail. You were required to pass all the tests, etc. , but were NOT allowed ANY live ammo in your weapon on an armored truck.

I have never heard of this! I spent 18 years in the armored car industry, carrying every day, until the company went out of business. For ten years I was one of two Firearms Instructors for the company. I had the required permit from New Jersey that allowed me to carry a pistol (but I was NOT allowed to carry concealed).

I currently work in an industry that, if I were to carry a firearm at work, I would not only be immediately fired, but subject to arrest as well.

When you accept employment with ANY company you AGREE to their conditions of employment. You have publicly come onto the wire, identified the company you are going to work and are stating your intention to violate company policy by carrying a firearm. Your comment "I might actually just get a pocket pistol and carry like that, because I'd rather lose a job than my life. " shows that you have not given any consideration into the legal problems you will be encountering if you use a unauthorized firearm.

I, personnally, would not carry unless my job allowed it; but that's me.

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 7, 2012, 11:40 AM
What a coincidence! I got a job with that same company yesterday! My post is unarmed as well and I'm not sure if I could be legally armed either since one post for when a ship actually comes in I'm dealing with international aliens and I require a TWIC card to work the docks.

So having a weapon on you ensures your life. The overwhelming majority of robberies in the usa end peacefully because the employees let them have it. In most environments your life is far safer when there are no weapons and the robbers are aloud to take it. Just ask any major employer in the usa.

You mean the ones that say no weapons because of liability? Many times people are murdered during a robbery for a gang initiation. I don't want to just stand there and get executed so some scumbag can impress his homies.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 01:20 PM
So are you...that is generally how message boards work...

Most companies don't allow their employees to be armed due to liablity, plain and simple. They can't trust that their employees are trained properly to keep them from shooting the wrong person or to know when the right time to use the weapon is.

Once again I am having to double check to make sure I am on an right to keep and bear arms website...

Many of us are posting on a RKBA website because we believe in the right to defend ourselves, and not leave it up to providence, or someone else...

A properly trained person is better off being armed, then they have the choice of compliance or active defense. If they are not armed, their only hope is compliance will save their life. I don't see how that can be disputed. I always thought most people who concealed carried argued that they don't do it because they expect to have to use the gun, but because they MIGHT have to. But the companies cannot count on their employees being properly trained and they can't spend the time or money to train them either. There are plenty of companies out there that are more concerned about their liablity than your life. Google "dead peasant insurance" and that will show you how much some of these firms care about their empolyees.
Thank you for the lesson in how message boards work. Instead of speaking I should have said referring.

I think we are saying the same thing actually in a lot of ways.

And I checked. You are on a right to bear arms web site. I believe in the right to defend myself, the right fornyou to defend yourself, the right for blah blah blah too. so we should therefore just ignore business rules?

You know what. Please don't Even respond to that. I'm not going to open this ignorant thread again

How about acting like some kind of grownup and call this op out for saying he is going to carry at work anyway? You silence is encouraging to him. Or should we not do that because thismis a right to keep and bear arms website.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 01:25 PM
What a coincidence! I got a job with that same company yesterday! My post is unarmed as well and I'm not sure if I could be legally armed either since one post for when a ship actually comes in I'm dealing with international aliens and I require a TWIC card to work the docks.



You mean the ones that say no weapons because of liability? Many times people are murdered during a robbery for a gang initiation. I don't want to just stand there and get executed so some scumbag can impress his homies.
You just go on believing what you want to believe. The overwhelming majority of commercial robberies in the united states today do not end with fatalities because the employees are trained to let them take it. Instances like you refer to are extremely rare statistically. Instances where the victims try to defend themselves with a weapon end with the victim dead far more often. That's not rocket science and is pretty well understood in the business world.

Never mind. I can't even remember what point I was trying to make or why I was trying to make it.

Trunk Monkey
April 7, 2012, 01:26 PM
I have about five years of experience in the security field all in Colorado and all as a licensed, unarmed, merchant guard.

In my experience in order to work as a licensed armed guard you must have an armed endorsement on your license and you must be on an armed post. If either of those conditions is not met you are carrying your weapon illegally as well as outside the scope of your duties. As such you, not your employer, are 100% legally liable for any use of your firearm.

Security companies pay for different levels of liability insurance and the rider for an armed guard is about four times more expensive that for an unarmed guard. Some clients also contractually obligate the security company to pay a fine if a guard is found on site with an unauthorized weapon.

With regard to any company I have ever worked for, in any situation where a guard was found with an unauthorized weapon on site he has been terminated immediately, no questions asked and no appeals.

It has also been my experience that the security field is a small world (at least in Colorado Springs) if you are terminated for carrying an unauthorized weapon it is likely that you will not be working in the industry again.

Rodman30
April 7, 2012, 01:34 PM
I worked for them in the Frederick, Md area for three years. They had pretty much gone away from armed contracts due to insurance costs at least thats what I was told. I left them and now work in house security for a local hospital. The pay is much better contract officers hardly make any money I was only making $9 a hour when I worked for them.

Trunk Monkey
April 7, 2012, 01:49 PM
You just go on believing what you want to believe. The overwhelming majority of commercial robberies in the united states today do not end with fatalities because the employees are trained to let them take it. Instances like you refer to are extremely rare statistically.

Someone threatening me with a weapon could result in an infinite number of possible results, some of which are:
(a) he chuckles and says he's only kidding,
(b) he takes your wallet, keys, wife, whatever, and leaves you alive as promised,
(c) he kills you.

If you want to bet your life on options other than c, feel free to do so; I choose not to.


Instances where the victims try to defend themselves with a weapon end with the victim dead far more often.

You made this statement very authoritatively can I assume that you will be providing a cite?

HOOfan_1
April 7, 2012, 01:55 PM
How about acting like some kind of grownup and call this op out for saying he is going to carry at work anyway? .

I am assuming the OP is a grownup and can make is own decisions and face his own consequences.

I am not encouraging him to do anything. I am simply pointing out that corporate policies are based on the welfare of the corporation, not necessarily the welfare of the employees.

The rules of the company will be clearly stated, the laws of the state will hopefully be clearly stated. From there the OP needs to make his own decisions.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 02:05 PM
Trunk monkey I said in the post before that I hated to post it because I did not have a cite. But in the retail world that is not really a debate. If the fac that I cannot cite it gives you reason to dismiss it than so be it. If I was in the office and really cared to find it I am sure I could.


And hoo fan I apologize. You are probably right. He is a grown up and can make his own decisions. No advice needed or given to him or anyone else making a decision like that on the high road.




And I am really disappointed in myself this morning. Usually when I swear off an ignorant thread I can easily stay away. For some reason I cake back to this one.

gym
April 7, 2012, 02:47 PM
In my case, we had been in the gym business, and I carried there, as I closed the club at 11 PM. and sometimes opened while it was still dark out. So my ex partner knew I would never take a position, carrying 6 figures around, with no backup, unless I was armed. Since it was just the two of us, and my job had no real description, other than I was "working" for him, I don't think we were breaking any laws, it was a private portfolio. I wasn't officially a guard, but still carried large amounts of cash, alone, in Bars, strip clubs, shop quicks, Hotels, etc. Some were in the worse places in FL, "that's where ATM machines make the most money.
Honestlly I would never do that job without loading up, 3 guns, pepper spray, a stun gun, and a vest on rare occasions because of the heat. I was alone all day, until I checked in to hand in the receipts at night on my way home.
Although you can never protect yourself against someone laying in wait for you. The spur of the moment or poorlly planned robbery can result in your death when things go downhill fast.I know this as I have had the unfortunate luck of being party to a home invasion. They knew all about me way before ever coming in for the job.I lived through that and said I would never allow a bad guy to have the choice weather I and my loved ones get to live or die without me having something to say about it.
Some, actually most robberies that result in a shooting, didn't start out that way, but something goes wrong, maybe one guy is high, or pissed off at his wife or just panics. You need to have an option, even if you die, you may have been able to save your family. At least you have a chance, without a gun you have no chance should things go sideways. You feel very alone when you walk into a hostile enviornment, alone, with a clipboard and a bag of 20's that you are trying to cover, while opening the machine,safe, and closing out the receipt. It can be the longest 5 minutes in your life. And "they" will alway test you, asking fr some cash, joking around, but not really. I will never do anything like that again.My buddy still does it and loves it.He's a crazy SOB, and dosen't need the money anymore. So everyone is different. I can't see a guard as anything but a target to a gang member, and with no means of protection, "they know that", you are a sitting duck.
If you are going to be a target, at least get paid a lot of money to risk your life. These guys who work for $10 dollars an hour and put their life in harms way, is just nonsense in my eyes. Go work for Blackwater or tripple canopy for a year, after 90 days you money is, or at least was, Tax free.Do a year or two, and yo can make enough to set yourself up in business for ever.Yes it's dangerous but your getting paid 6 figures tax free.

Trunk Monkey
April 7, 2012, 03:13 PM
How about acting like some kind of grownup and call this op out for saying he is going to carry at work anyway? .

On this we agree, regardless of legality the OP took the position knowing company policy forbade carrying at work and is opting to do so anyway

Turn Key
April 7, 2012, 03:27 PM
Be advised that some some security firms do random employee pat downs and searches. This was a comon practice done in the Dept of Corrections. At role call the shift supervisor would bring in a couple Sargents and do a through search of all the officers there going on duty.

Follow your new companies policy and enjoy the experience of following the rules.

The best,

TK

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 7, 2012, 03:30 PM
In no solid words did I say I was going to carry. I said I might. But my best bet would be to just find another job ASAP. Pay rate isn't the greatest, but I'm just going to be checking ID's at the Tyson plant. So I don't even see the immediate need for one there. Probably just leave it in the car.

MilsurpShooter
April 7, 2012, 03:53 PM
It's not going to be up to Securitas. It's going to be up to the place your assigned. If you're armed, go to a place that is un-armed, and are carrying, you're in breach of terms of employment and will be fired, regardless of how Securita's views it.

With security contract companies, the employer is always right. I've done this gig for years and managed my way out of contract into the company employment (Went from the guy on contract to the guy that oversee's all the guys on contract)

I have caught 2 people attempting to conceal carry while on duty at a strictly no guns plant. One I caught personally, the other was reported by employee's for brandishing on duty :banghead:

Each time involved police, lawyers, court dates and the whole nine because the company wanted to pursue it past just termination. So if you plan on carrying when you're not supposed to be, I'd look up a good lawyer beforehand.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 7, 2012, 03:59 PM
"You need to follow the rules your boss tells you, even if you die, because by golly, rules are rules"

I'm astonished that point of view is actually being voiced on THR.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 7, 2012, 04:01 PM
Just going to leave it in the car when I do get my carry permit. I don't have one yet.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 04:03 PM
Really? You are astonished that there are people on this board that would advise someone to follow the rules of their employer?

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 7, 2012, 04:09 PM
He's saying it because a large number of members here believe that their life is worth more than work.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 7, 2012, 04:09 PM
Really? You are astonished that there are people on this board that would advise someone to follow the rules of their employer?

To the point where they deliberately put their own life at risk just to follow the rules? Yes. Absolutely yes.

Do what you must to preserve your life. Everything else is beneath that. Everything, including rules.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 04:19 PM
How are they deliberately putting your life on the line? By not allowing you to carry? Don't work there if don't like it! But don't deliberately break the company's policies just because you think you know something they don't. The vast majority of retailers in the united states have this rule. The vast majority. We had a little exchange earlier about why that is. They do it for liability reasons and safety reasons. Again. Just don't work there if you can't handle it.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 7, 2012, 04:31 PM
They care about them. I care about me. If they're not going to care about me, I'm not going to care about them. Or their rules.

The only person who is going to take care of you, is you. Not some company, not your boss, and not their rules. A job is a job, it doesn't keep you alive. They clearly state in their rules that they don't care if you die by preventing you from being able to defend yourself. I don't care about their liability of they don't care about my life.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 04:33 PM
Then don't work for them.

And most business actually do care about there employees.

But again, just don't work for them.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 7, 2012, 04:37 PM
No. I'll do what I want and what's best for me. I'll work where I can get the most pay, and I'll carry to keep myself alive. The company states very clearly they don't care about me when they say I can't carry. My response is that I no longer care about them. My willingness to respect others, or their rules, is dependent on their willingness to respect me. Treat me like a person, I'll return the kindness. Treat me like a cog in a machine or a worker be, I'll respond to that too. Respect my life, I'll respect your liability. Don't, and I won't.

I'll keep working if I don't get caught, you'll fire me if I do. Fair enough.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 04:45 PM
No. I'll do what I want and what's best for me. I'll work where I can get the most pay, and I'll carry to keep myself alive. The company states very clearly they don't care about me when they say I can't carry. My response is that I no longer care about them. My willingness to respect others, or their rules, is dependent on their willingness to respect me. Treat me like a person, I'll return the kindness. Treat me like a cog in a machine or a worker be, I'll respond to that too. Respect my life, I'll respect your liability. Don't, and I won't.

I'll keep working if I don't get caught, you'll fire me if I do. Fair enough.
I totally disagree. But it's not worth arguing over.

Have a good day.

EvilGenius
April 7, 2012, 04:46 PM
No. I'll do what I want and what's best for me. I'll work where I can get the most pay, and I'll carry to keep myself alive. The company states very clearly they don't care about me when they say I can't carry. My response is that I no longer care about them. My willingness to respect others, or their rules, is dependent on their willingness to respect me. Treat me like a person, I'll return the kindness. Treat me like a cog in a machine or a worker be, I'll respond to that too. Respect my life, I'll respect your liability. Don't, and I won't.

I'll keep working if I don't get caught, you'll fire me if I do. Fair enough.
As already been stated, in a lot of places it can go way beyond just getting fired.

You can be in direct violation of the law.

But I guess thatd mean the law doesn't care about you. Might as well not care about it either.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 7, 2012, 04:57 PM
I would cross that bridge if I came to it. But I'd have to be alive to cross it at all.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 05:05 PM
Yea. Let's just say you are in a position to make an employee firearms rule for the company you work for. Let's say 1000 small boxes in 12 states with 11000 employees. Your boxes are small retail, about the size and scope of a Radio Shack or maybe a Gap. You get robbed sometimes. Not as much as a bank but more often than one might imagine. Let's say 20 a year. You know from experience in multi unit management and from the professonal security department that works for you that by far the easiest way to get those bad guys out without hurting anyone is to give them everything they ask for. You will not hold the employees responsible for the money or whatever is stolen. They will get paid leave and paid counseling. And they live. But you cannot approach it this way and also allow your employees to carry. Remember there are 11000 field employees. It would be impossible to ensure the proper training needed to truly be an asset in a robbery you understand that out of those 11000 there may be 300 ccw holders. Of those probably only 50 of those have any real training. After all in most states all you have to do to get a ccw is shoot a target and pass a safety test. That's a far cry from the true training really needed for a robbery situation. Not to mention you secondlargest state is Arizona and those 2000 employees can carry anywhere. So to protect the coworkers do you ban carry by employees to ensure those situations go cleaner or do you allow those that want to carry do so with no guarantee they have the proper training. Your loyalty is to the staff as a whole, so to better protect everyone you don't allow guns.

That is right. And I didn't begin to approach the liability issues brought forward by allowing it. But I assure you that is a pretty good summary of how companies approach that subject. And they certainly don't do so because they don't care.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 7, 2012, 05:08 PM
The point is moot. If they aren't going to let me carry on my person, I'll leave it in the car. I know enough about becoming a shadow to everyone else so I can get out of there, because I've done it before. I've been able to save my own arse a few times by disappearing into nothing when I couldn't defend myself.

And if I need it, it's in the car.

I've never been the victim in a police report, nor the aggressor. And I do not plan to be, either.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 7, 2012, 05:15 PM
Yea. Let's just say you are in a position to make an employee firearms rule for the company you work for. Let's say 1000 small boxes in 12 states with 11000 employees. Your boxes are small retail, about the size and scope of a Radio Shack or maybe a Gap. You get robbed sometimes. Not as much as a bank but more often than one might imagine. Let's say 20 a year. You know from experience in multi unit management and from the professonal security department that works for you that by far the easiest way to get those bad guys out without hurting anyone is to give them everything they ask for. You will not hold the employees responsible for the money or whatever is stolen. They will get paid leave and paid counseling. And they live. But you cannot approach it this way and also allow your employees to carry. Remember there are 11000 field employees. It would be impossible to ensure the proper training needed to truly be an asset in a robbery you understand that out of those 11000 there may be 300 ccw holders. Of those probably only 50 of those have any real training. After all in most states all you have to do to get a ccw is shoot a target and pass a safety test. That's a far cry from the true training really needed for a robbery situation. Not to mention you secondlargest state is Arizona and those 2000 employees can carry anywhere. So to protect the coworkers do you ban carry by employees to ensure those situations go cleaner or do you allow those that want to carry do so with no guarantee they have the proper training. Your loyalty is to the staff as a whole, so to better protect everyone you don't allow guns.

That is right. And I didn't begin to approach the liability issues brought forward by allowing it. But I assure you that is a pretty good summary of how companies approach that subject. And they certainly don't do so because they don't care.

Paid leave, paid counselling, over something they're not guaranteed to live through anyway? You're missing many points previously brought up. If the crook is scared, and in a panic, it can go ANY direction, and usually opposite of what you hope for.

You're also leaving out gang initiations, where robbery is only the secondary function in the crime committed. If they're planning on taking a life, that life is already taken. There's nothing your liability issues can do to change that. In my opinion, that is some low-life, "I don't care about you, I just want the money" attitude that too many companies portray.

I don't intend at staying at this job too long, but it's something that needs to be done so I can get my bills paid.

Like Ragnar said, I don't respect those who tell me I can't defend myself because they don't want to pay for liability issues, especially when money can be made back over some time. Too many people trying to line their pockets now, and have no concern for anyone but themselves. THAT is what needs to change in this country. It's SOCIETY that needs to change, and the GREED needs to go.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 7, 2012, 05:32 PM
Yea. Let's just say you are in a position to make an employee firearms rule for the company you work for. Let's say 1000 small boxes in 12 states with 11000 employees. Your boxes are small retail, about the size and scope of a Radio Shack or maybe a Gap. You get robbed sometimes. Not as much as a bank but more often than one might imagine. Let's say 20 a year. You know from experience in multi unit management and from the professonal security department that works for you that by far the easiest way to get those bad guys out without hurting anyone is to give them everything they ask for. You will not hold the employees responsible for the money or whatever is stolen. They will get paid leave and paid counseling. And they live. But you cannot approach it this way and also allow your employees to carry. Remember there are 11000 field employees. It would be impossible to ensure the proper training needed to truly be an asset in a robbery you understand that out of those 11000 there may be 300 ccw holders. Of those probably only 50 of those have any real training. After all in most states all you have to do to get a ccw is shoot a target and pass a safety test. That's a far cry from the true training really needed for a robbery situation. Not to mention you secondlargest state is Arizona and those 2000 employees can carry anywhere. So to protect the coworkers do you ban carry by employees to ensure those situations go cleaner or do you allow those that want to carry do so with no guarantee they have the proper training. Your loyalty is to the staff as a whole, so to better protect everyone you don't allow guns.

Since your argument seems to be based on the tired old Bloomburg-esque anti line of "give them what they want and they won't hurt you", you don't seem to have much of an argument at all.


The moment you place your life in the hands of a criminal, you've lost.

Jorg Nysgerrig
April 7, 2012, 05:38 PM
If you can't abide by the company's policies, you should't be working there. If you feel that strongly you must carry, man up and get a job that doesn't prohibit it. Anything else is spineless dishonesty, pure and simple. When you accept employment, you agree to perform your duties in the way prescribed by your employer asks in exchange for compensation.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 7, 2012, 05:40 PM
Firearm won't leave the car. But I'll end up finding employment that better fits my terms.

bikerdoc
April 7, 2012, 05:40 PM
Im an old boke down retired cop.
I work P/t for a gun shop doing the internet ammo orders at a remote location.
We all carry.
The Boss is great, he says " You dont carry to protect my stuff, You carry to protect YOU from people that want to take my stuff"

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 06:15 PM
Since your argument seems to be based on the tired old Bloomburg-esque anti line of "give them what they want and they won't hurt you", you don't seem to have much of an argument at all.


The moment you place your life in the hands of a criminal, you've lost.
As tired as you may think that argument is, in a retail or business work environment, it is true. That is why, or at least one of the reasons, the vast majority of retail workplaces take that approach.

Now personal defense away from work is a completely different story.

Agsalaska
April 7, 2012, 06:17 PM
Sounds like a good idea mosin. I would never encourage anyone to work at a job where they cannot come to terms with the rules laid forth by the company.

I wish you well in your new job.



And you are right about one thing on your previous post(for some reason my phone won't let me quot it). It can always go wrong no matter what you do. You can tell them to take everything and they may still kill you. But in the long run employees are safer when they fully cooperate.

gym
April 7, 2012, 11:28 PM
Like a few guys said, if this is going to scar your permanent record in the way of an arrest. Then I would not work there instead of carrying against their rules. If you get fired because of this, you will find it difficult to find another job because you would be classified a danger and a liar, and one who refused to follow company policy after being told what they expect from you. An arrest could cost you your license period.
I carried with the owners permission. Different situation.
I simply would not take that job, rather than go down this road. You need to determine which is more important to you. Internet forums are great but you can't base your life on the opinions of others about what you should do. What we would do dosen't matter. If arrested you are the one who will have the financial and physical obligation to pay for the breach in policy. Your decision should be based on your principals and the law.

Capt. Ct.
April 8, 2012, 04:15 AM
I worked for Securitas. During the training class they said NO weapons were allowed. I pulled out a little pocket knife and asked if this would be acceptable? OH NO! You could kill somebody with that!
In my state you not only need a ccw but a blue card to carry in the security field. You can only carry the one gun you qualified with. Yes, I know it's stupid.

IlikeSA
April 8, 2012, 05:28 AM
I work for a large security company that services hospitals, airports and local government contracts. People are correct in stating that it is up to the contractor in terms of what you can and cannot carry. My current location authorizes tasers, which are occasionally used on combative people. I know of several hospitals where metal detectors are in place and, if you are trained and authorized by the company, you can carry. Others have just a supervisor carry. Still others insist on no carry of anything. One that I know of has several part-time police officers working there, but they are not allowed to carry even a taser. I wouldn't risk it if I were you, or I would look for a company that will allow you to carry.

paramedic70002
April 8, 2012, 03:28 PM
"Yea. Let's just say you are in a position to make an employee firearms rule for the company you work for."

There's a big difference between authorizing 11,000 employees to carry their personal sidearms, and not prohibiting it. Maybe the corporate lawyers will disagree, but as an employer do you have to ban everything that might cause you liability? So an employer bans "weapons," do they include wire clothing hangars and fingernail files? Do they boilerplate the ban or just use it as an excuse to avoid liability? And as for caring for employees, sure they do, but they have a requirement to look after their investors as well. Sadly, the yearly dividends are more important than giving an employee the best option to defend themselves from robbery/murder.

Agsalaska
April 8, 2012, 07:41 PM
"Yea. Let's just say you are in a position to make an employee firearms rule for the company you work for."

There's a big difference between authorizing 11,000 employees to carry their personal sidearms, and not prohibiting it. Maybe the corporate lawyers will disagree, but as an employer do you have to ban everything that might cause you liability? So an employer bans "weapons," do they include wire clothing hangars and fingernail files? Do they boilerplate the ban or just use it as an excuse to avoid liability? And as for caring for employees, sure they do, but they have a requirement to look after their investors as well. Sadly, the yearly dividends are more important than giving an employee the best option to defend themselves from robbery/murder.

That last sentence is so tiring. Nothing is more important than the employees. Including the dividends. The vast majority of successful companies understand that their employees are their biggest asset.

There is really not a difference between the two in the eyes of the company. Either way you have people carrying firearms in your shop. The big problem with it is corporations have absolutely no way to know who is properly trained to handle a terrifying robbery situation(I am strictly referring to retail businesses that deal with the public.) Your not going to like this statement and someone will soon be on here telling me I am wrong, but employees are safer when you allow robbers to take the cash, jewelry, etc and get out without resistance. I have worked in companies that have had several hundred robberies happen without a single fatality. Do you think they would have been that kind of success if guns were allowed in the shops? The last thing a company wants is some legal CCW guy with a gun who does not train or really know what he is doing trying to defend already insured merchandise against armed men who already have the draw on them with three other employees in the building. That is not safe. That is why the lawyers, HR, and operators disagree with you, and thats why retail companies almost never allow for concealed carry. Its because they do carry about keeping there employees as safe as possible, not prevent it because of liability.

As for other work environments, like a insurance office, lawyers office, doctors office, thats much different.

Steel Horse Rider
April 8, 2012, 08:05 PM
^^^^^^^^
The responsibility factor is almost always left out of these types of discussions. When you look at how the average driver handles a motor vehicle the idea of 1000 employees of unknown abilities would scare the crap out of me. I only have 4 employees and we go shooting together so I don't have any prohibitions on them as to whether they want to carry or not while working but if I had a hundred employees I would probably feel different. As was stated above, a successful company treats its employees as an asset because the companies who do not value a good employee usually have a short lifespan....

Agsalaska
April 8, 2012, 10:12 PM
Steel Horse Rider you are my hero. Finally someone else sees it like a business owner. Thank you.

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