SW 1911ES No FP safety?


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Tom Fury
April 6, 2012, 01:55 PM
Looking at one (current model; left factory in 2012) on auction site; have read no firing pin safety in this model? Can't get to one to check it out and reviews seem to gloss over this point.
Does she, or doesn't she? Dealbreaker for bidding on it.
Thanks, J

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4thHorseman
April 6, 2012, 02:55 PM
Tom, there is great debate on the need for the firing pin safety on the 1911. I am not going to argue pro or con, but merely point out many people feel the 1911 does not need one. If you have major concern you can install an extra strength firing pin spring along with a titanium firing pin to stop the so called "accidental firing of the cartridge" when dropped. It will accomplish about the same thing. The idea behind the firing pin safety is the dropped weapon creates inertia which moves the firing pin to strike the primer in the cartridge. Another possible scenario is the dropped weapon's hammer could fall onto the firing pin. This would mean the hammer would have to by-pass the sear somehow. Again, great debate if this could actually happen.
I will also say many manufactures including Wilson does not see a need to make a 1911 with a firing pin safety as far as I know.

coalman
April 6, 2012, 07:26 PM
Regarding FPB, I agree a 1911 with one is less likely to have an impact discharge. That said, odds are VERY remote when a XP FP spring is used, and pretty remote regardless. I prefer not having a FPB on a 1911. The S&W E series 1911 I inspected once was very, very nice. The extractor was huge, and the gun well fit and finished. I'd get one over a Kimber or SA at the same price, but I don't need/want another 1911. I'm not impressed by the regular S&W 1911.

rellascout
April 6, 2012, 08:01 PM
E series have a titanium firing pin no firing pin safety as others have pointed out the ES is not part of the E series. Might look for an E series for your intended use.

The Lone Haranguer
April 7, 2012, 12:38 AM
The original design, IMO, doesn't need a FPB as long as it is in good working order, chiefly WRT the firing pin spring. It is just for extra insurance.

Skylerbone
April 7, 2012, 01:04 AM
Need a specific model number to know the answer. S&W did produce an ES that included a Swartz safety system as did all previous SW1911 models save one, the TFP (Titanium Firing Pin) though I don't know if it is a current production model. The new E-Series pistols do not have a firing pin block mechanism.

JTQ
April 7, 2012, 10:41 AM
Skylerbone wrote,
Need a specific model number to know the answer. S&W did produce an ES that included a Swartz safety system as did all previous SW1911 models save one, the TFP (Titanium Firing Pin) though I don't know if it is a current production model. The new E-Series pistols do not have a firing pin block mechanism.
Skylerbone is correct. We would need more information, such as model number to be sure. However, I believe the ES was not part of the new "E" series line-up and is part of the previous generation of S&W 1911's with the Mochak firing pin safety ( http://www.google.com/patents/US6374526 ). While newer than the Colt Series 80 firing pin safety, and similar to the Swartz type used by Kimber, it is a very robust design and should work well.

Here is the S&W site with ES model. It is basically a CCO type model. Commander size slide on an Officer size frame.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766208_-1_757754_757752_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Tom Fury
April 7, 2012, 12:09 PM
Thanks to all who replied; the gun I'm looking at is the one shown in the link; CCO style with stainless slide (ES= extended slide so I'm told).
I am very familiar with the 1911 in all its' configurations; suffice it to say that my personal experience contributes to a personal preference that there be no FPS; I own Colts and Smiths with; series 1 Kimbers without, and custom guns on Para and Caspian frames with and without.
My question has more to do with whether I can use the ES frame with a spare OM size upper or a Kimber Ultra upper I have which are not configured for a FPS rather than anything else; not referencing the pros or cons of FPS; more about interchangeability of parts. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
From information gathered, I believe the one I'm looking at has no FPS, so would do what I want it to do; if not, I do like the S&W 1911's anyway; (own a SC/PD as well; nothing bad to say about their FPS from me) just debating as it's more expensive than say a new LWOM frame from Fusion.


Cheers, and thanks all!

TF

Skylerbone
April 7, 2012, 01:15 PM
Tom, that model does indeed have a firing pin safety so it won't be ideal for your intended donor use.

JTQ
April 7, 2012, 01:24 PM
Skylerbone wrote,
Tom, that model does indeed have a firing pin safety so it won't be ideal for your intended donor use.
I believe he is correct again.

Tom Fury
April 8, 2012, 11:54 AM
Fusion looking better and better...TF

Skylerbone
April 8, 2012, 12:11 PM
If you go that route call and make sure it is in stock and matches the description. While Bob Serva's reputation as head of DW was enviable there have been grumblings about Fusion of late from sources I trust. As with all ventures, approach after due diligence and good luck on your build.

rellascout
April 8, 2012, 12:15 PM
I do not own or have I shot a Fusion but here is an example of some of what is coming out of his shop. IMHO a custom shop should never have allowed this pistol to be build let alone go back to the customer in this condition. YMMV

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/hayj02/IMG_20120208_230157.jpg

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477644

SlamFire1
April 8, 2012, 12:55 PM
Series 80 firing pin safeties are an after the fact addition to a finished design. As such the altered design is not as reliable, in terms of function, as the original design.

I have had the firing pin plunger drop down in a series 80 Colt and stop the forward movement of the slide. The thing dropped down during extraction, it hung over the back of the frame and it stopped the slide from going forward into battery.

I have read accounts of attempts to fire the M1911 by dropping it on the muzzle. Various distances are given. Some very high, others, around 8 feet.

Still, all things given, I prefer the series 70 type action in a self defense M1911.

WhippingBoy
April 25, 2012, 12:23 PM
1911ES absolutely DOES have a FPB.

Unlike the series 80, the S&W uses the grip safety to disengage the block. When you hold the gun, a lever attached to the grip safety deactivates the block on the slide. This method does not interfere with the trigger system as the series 80 is known to do. I can post pictures if you're still interested.

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