keltec ksg


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dubya450
April 9, 2012, 12:56 AM
I recently seen an article on the KSG and it looks like a good idea for a self defense shotgun and just cool overall. Any ideas, thoughts or experiences with this gun? Thanks guys.

Sorry if there is a thread on this shotgun already ..

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MachIVshooter
April 9, 2012, 01:11 AM
It's a very unique design, with a great deal of utility. Problem right now is availability; What should be a ~$700 shotgun is selling for upwards of $2k on account of extremely limited supply.

Stay tuned, there should* be a lot more info and much more reasonable prices within a year.

*The RFB is still largely vaporware 4 years after it's release.

JShirley
April 9, 2012, 01:17 AM
The LOP was much too long for me, and since it's a bullpup, you can only add LOP, not reduce. Also, the slide release button on the 2011 proto I handled was literally dangerous without gloves.

John

dubya450
April 9, 2012, 02:56 AM
Wow 2 grand!? Msrp is about 700 like you stated. If i happen to find one at a decent price (under 1k) I think ill jump on it. If i don't like it I should be able to get most of the $ back I'd think with demand being high. As far as the lop, I usually like it longer around 14 inches. Do you know what the actual lop is offhand? What was with the slide release? Sharp or does it pinch? Thanks for the info guys.

Cory

Girodin
April 9, 2012, 03:10 AM
It is still very rare. If the RFB is any indication, it will continue to be for some time. It is neat in that it holds a lot of rounds and is a small package.

Personally, I would rather have a quality auto loader for SD.

There is zero chance I would pay $2k for something built by KT, and yes I have owned a number of KTs. There is also no way I would pay $2k for the KSG kel tec quality issues aside.

Realistically it offers very little over to nothing for any kind of remotely likely HD scenarios over available guns. And if one wants a serious overkill HD shotgun the KSG (even assuming it will be bug free) would not be my first choice.

carbuncle
April 9, 2012, 04:45 AM
I want one because it looks cool: I will probably never buy one because I only want one because it looks cool.

Jon Coppenbarger
April 9, 2012, 08:39 AM
I have not shot mine but everyone I have shown it to really likes it and all of its features.
I think the slide release is a very well thought design. The only thing I see a few people having problems with is the bottom rail is not metal like the top rail and it is chipping or breaking when a single point hand grip is used on a few off them.

I got mine because it is a very nice design, I have other shotguns but I have more than one rifle and more than one pistol also.

JShirley
April 10, 2012, 05:24 PM
The slide release on the proto was sharp. Would work okay with thin shooting gloves, but literally dangerous without.

TurtlePhish
April 10, 2012, 08:14 PM
There was a Nutnfancy "trial" where a guy from Kel-Tec tested one on an informal shotgun course; it worked well most of the time, but he forgot to switch tubes a couple times and it had more jams than I'd like to have in a shotgun intended for defense.

Jon Coppenbarger
April 10, 2012, 08:42 PM
i love where the slide release is and how the heck and why? are you even getting you fingers to the front of the trigger guard unless you are going for the release lever and I know I have only hit the lever about 100 times and have never thought that it was sharp.

And as far as it not working properly I have not shot it yet so it may give me problems that I will find out. I would hope they got the bugs worked out by now but will find out. So when did you guys get to hold it.
2011 shot show? and when was that demo like last month as if it was last month where was it as I want to know so I can talk to kel-tec and ask why they either have a idiot for a demo guy or they are trying to push out a bad product.

help me guys as I need some names and dates.

metalart
April 11, 2012, 04:57 AM
The prototype had a different slide release.. It was changed on the production model.

Blackhawk30
April 11, 2012, 07:06 AM
KelTec KSGs are pos.Don't buy one.Get a Saiga or other proven design.KT has the worst QC in the industry.You would be better off with a Raven.

PowderMonkey
April 11, 2012, 08:30 AM
I also would like to buy one but like the above poster, mainly because it is unique and looks the berries. But $800-900 would be my high water mark.

lloveless
April 11, 2012, 11:22 PM
Jon Coppenbaargeer you have a KSG you haven't shot it and it is chipping?
Blackhawk30. I'll take a Kel-Tec over a Raven anyday of the week.
ll

BamAlmighty
April 12, 2012, 12:00 AM
KelTec KSGs are pos.Don't buy one.Get a Saiga or other proven design.KT has the worst QC in the industry.You would be better off with a Raven.

I always find it funny when somebody who has never handled something calls it a POS.

Get a Saiga? http://goo.gl/uxRm2 WOW, just based on that search I would say Saigas are POSes.

KT has the worst QC in the industry? S&W... rusting M&P slides, first few batches of M&P 15-22 were jam-o-matics Kimber... first production run of the Solo? Ruger... recalls anyone? Taurus... need I say more. etc etc etc Every manufacturer has hiccups.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 12, 2012, 12:35 AM
One of my LGS has one in stock for 1300. Handled it in person. It's a very neat design, and very short. I would get one for HD just for it's low overall length. The double capacity over standard pump shotguns is just a bonus IMO. It's real utility is the length, light materials, and integrated rails.

Jon Coppenbarger
April 12, 2012, 07:59 AM
somebody needs to learn how to read I said the one of the problems I see some folks were having was the bottom rail. did not say I was having the problem.

Did you even know the ksg comes with a part to put on the rail to help with the grip. how do you rate that part?

One good reason we have the forms is to share info. with guns I recieve or I am looking at I like to seek the pros and cons of the product to see if I either want to own it or if I do pick it up what to expect from it if I do bring it home.

Now I am sure there will be problems with this product in general but that happens with most products as we usually only hear of the bad things.

If I remember correctly the original poster ask a few questions and I was able to give a point from more than one of them.

Now I thought I would leave out the things that were addressed with the prototype.

The slide release for one. The problem with holding the trigger down after it was fired and then pumping it caused it not to reset and other problems that were addressed before it came out.

now with the bottom rail? with a ar or other firearm that you just use a front fore grip you pretty much just use it to help hold and steady the weapon. but with the ksg you are actually using it to help pump the weapon. folks are saying to try and use a grip that is shorter to help keep from using extreme leverage compared to using a longer grip. Or to use a grip that spreads out the contact point on the rail instead of one with a single contact point.

I can see maybe in the future a new front on the ksg in some kind of way to address the problem.

Demitrios
April 12, 2012, 11:10 AM
Reminds me of the Neosted.

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/safr/neostead-e.html

Fiv3r
April 12, 2012, 11:13 AM
I would like one just because it looks cool and I like shotguns. However, for actual home defense, I find it just a little too complex. I hope I don't need THAT many rounds to end an altercation or else I was in bigger trouble than I could handle already.

7+1 is just fine for me. Heck, even 4 in the tube set to cruiser carry should be enough.

That said, I would shell out around $700 for one if it fell into my lap. Looks like a lot of fun. I still think I'd stick with my Remington and Ithaca for HD duty, though.

ErikO
April 12, 2012, 11:14 AM
The KSG does look cool, but I'm saving up for a semi-auto AA-12. :)

boricua9mm
April 12, 2012, 03:43 PM
Hmmm, on another thread we have people declaring that Benellis are too expensive, but here on this thread it seems the venerable membership is genuinely interested in a pump action shotgun that uses a bolted together clamshell construction with a price point above $1k.

Interesting.....:uhoh:

Jon Coppenbarger
April 12, 2012, 04:12 PM
I went on benelli's web sight and could not find a bull pump the holds 12 or 14 rounds that list around $880?
I have a bunch of shotguns that are worth more than $1k and they are not benneli's either so what does that prove?

did not know this was a post on benelli's.

boricua9mm
April 12, 2012, 06:06 PM
I went on benelli's web sight and could not find a bull pump the holds 12 or 14 rounds that list around $880?
I have a bunch of shotguns that are worth more than $1k and they are not benneli's either so what does that prove?

did not know this was a post on benelli's.

You're just not tracking....

mgkdrgn
April 13, 2012, 10:55 AM
KelTek's wet dream shotgun.

You'll find them on your neighborhood retailers shelf, right next to the Glock magazine 9mm Sub2k's ....

Master Blaster
April 13, 2012, 11:03 AM
I don't see how this is as Good as Saiga for HD, and for shotgun games or hunting its Useless.

JMHO YMMV

Skribs
April 13, 2012, 05:59 PM
I don't see how this is as Good as Saiga for HD, and for shotgun games or hunting its Useless
26.1" overall length. Try getting that on a Saiga with a stock and not having it be an SBS. This is an advantage in hallways.

14 rounds without a wide drum or extremely long box magazine allows it to fit into places better.

Able to switch between two loads with minor effort (swap over, rack slide) if you have two different purposes (i.e. out in the woods, buckshot for two-legged predators or slug for four-legged).

If the above QC problems are real (I haven't actually played with one in person) then I can see the problem, but there are real advantages to this design.

Caveat: with that said, I see the benefit of the Saiga. Faster reloads (although honestly, with 15 rounds, you *shouldn't* need to reload), more after-market parts available, more gunsmiths are likely to be familiar with this product.

Mainsail
April 13, 2012, 09:05 PM
The greatest value of the RFB, and by association the KSG, is determining whether your local gun dealer is a jackass price gouger.

When the RFB was selling for over $2K on the gun auction sites, and some dealers doing you the favor of only charging $1900, I found my LGS selling one for $1250.

So check your local dealer, if they have one and are trying to capitalize on its rarity- tell them what you think of them and never shop there again. If they price it fairly, let them know how much you appreciate it and continue to shop there, even if you don't like the KSG.

Dave McCracken
April 14, 2012, 05:01 PM
Good point, Mainsail. My pet GS will not be getting one of these in, so I can't try this.

However, with over 30 years of high customer satisfaction behind us, maybe I already have my answer.

Tipro
April 15, 2012, 07:30 AM
Ummm.....http://www.armslist.com/posts/368571/jacksonville-north-carolina-shotguns-for-sale-trade--bnib-kel-tec-ksg-shotgun

For anyone in NC that wants this shotgun I seriously suggest you go buy this asap. NIB ksg for $850. After you buy it, you then PM me, and we go shooting :) Yall are lucky I'm broke, or this would already be mine.

Axel Larson
April 15, 2012, 07:54 AM
Too heavy once loaded for a hd shotgun. I do like the bullpup design but I only need one tube mag would actually prefer just one, once the KSG is loaded the weight is going up. I would rather just carry extra ammo.

oneounceload
April 15, 2012, 10:21 PM
The greatest value of the RFB, and by association the KSG, is determining whether your local gun dealer is a jackass price gouger

Incorrect - retail selling prices are set by the buyer - if someone is willing to pay that price, then it is NOT gouging- just because it may be more than YOU are willing to pay, does not mean it is gouging or that the item is overpriced. Just as simple as when prices drop because they are not selling - in retail it is called a "sale", because the current asking price wasn't moving the product.

Personally, I agree with the above poster mentioning the weight - this gun was designed for video game players who think it looks cool and that they would need that firepower amount, especially in the other rant thread about this where the poster mentions having issues when "you're in a combat situation" ...please, gimme a break

Mainsail
April 16, 2012, 02:04 PM
^^^So you're saying my dealer is defective for applying his standard mark-up to the RFB and selling it to me at that price?

Are you a gun dealer yourself?

BlahX3
April 16, 2012, 06:59 PM
Same with Keltec PMR30.
Seems like they could hire a few more folks and sell a boatload of both.
Hopefully at retail.

Lee D
April 17, 2012, 01:36 PM
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=105487

oneounceload
April 17, 2012, 03:57 PM
^^^So you're saying my dealer is defective for applying his standard mark-up to the RFB and selling it to me at that price?

Are you a gun dealer yourself?

Haven't had an FFL now for quite some time, and no, your dealer isn't defective - but then neither is he trying, it seems, to maximize his profit margin - which is what selling is all about

Again, just because YOU find it too high priced, does not mean it is. A Fabbri can start at $100,000 and go up from there. Is it overpriced? To many it is - to those who want one, no it isn't; the same with a Ferrari, Patek Phillipe or anything of high cost - as long as someone is willing to buy it, then no item is over priced

Mainsail
April 18, 2012, 10:58 AM
^^^Well, let's just agree my dealer has a different perspective on how to maximize profit, to which I agree. With dozens of other local gun dealers, and hundreds on the internet, when I'm looking for a new firearm, I call them. I know I don't need to shop around trying to save a few bucks, or $800. Beside that, I've mentioned Mary's Pistols on dozens of threads on several gun boards. Somebody who begrudgingly pays several hundred dollars more for a gun just because they really want it will never do that. More so when they pay MSRP +$ for something that turns out to be a POS, like the Keltec shotgun seems to be.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 18, 2012, 01:45 PM
turns out to be a POS, like the Keltec shotgun seems to be.

How do you figure that? Other than them being rare at this point, and thus expensive, how is the shotgun itself a POS?

Tipro
April 18, 2012, 02:22 PM
How do you figure that? Other than them being rare at this point, and thus expensive, how is the shotgun itself a POS?
Silly Ragnar - a handful of people getting online and posting negative reviews clearly establishes that all ksg's are a POS

Mainsail
April 18, 2012, 03:47 PM
Should I rephrase it?

How about,

Somebody who begrudgingly pays several hundred dollars more for a gun just because they really want it will never publicly praise their dealer. More so when they pay MSRP +$ for something that turns out to be a POS, like the Keltec shotgun may be.

I don't disagree with either of you, right now the jury hasn't even been seated for the KSG, so I apologize if I ruffled some feathers. The KSG and its suitability/useability was never my point anywhere in this thread, only its value as an indicator of the business practices of some gun dealers.

oneounceload
April 18, 2012, 04:08 PM
only its value as an indicator of the business practices of some gun dealers.

Called making a profit - no different than when Apple announces a new I-whatever and the lines go around the block and people pay high prices and then after a bit the prices come down. Gun stores are retail establishments and they need to make a profit whenever and however they can. Fore very high priced KSG they can move quickly, they typically have a dozen or more regular guns sitting for months at a time. Inventory carrying costs are brutal, new, higher utility and taxes are as well.

Real simple, if the price is not what you are willing to pay, then do not buy it. If EVERYONE feels the same way, and the product doesn't move, the price will drop until it does

Jon Coppenbarger
April 18, 2012, 07:21 PM
Yeah the guy who posted the negative on another site posted here also with the same thing. He went around to a whole bunch of sites and posted the same thing.

I have a 380 bodyguard with a bad laser and a lc9 that lost its ejector on the first shot so does that mean they are all bad.

Any body who wants one at cost needs to get their own ffl and then stand in line and hope you get one in your shop.

Any one who wants one at a decent price just wait till the prices come down in about 5 or 6 years if then.

How about when a dealer gets 5 guns in like the ruger 1911 and 4 were pre-paid with deposits so those 4 got a good deal with that dealers standard markup and the one left he put out at list or below and then a clown comes in that did not have any money down like the others and have to wait months to get their guns and then bitches about the price.

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