How corrosive is Pyrodex?


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rajb123
April 10, 2012, 11:38 AM
After every shoting session, I've always cleaned my BPs with sopie water, but lately I have been using only Hoppes and non-clorinated brake cleaner.

After the clean I use a very light coat of oil in the bore and that seems to prevent rust OK.

Is this appropriate, or do you always need to clean with soap and water?

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J-Bar
April 10, 2012, 01:36 PM
You will get replies from some who think Pyrodex was invented by the devil to ruin guns.
You will get replies from others who love it.
If you use either soapy water or Ballistol diluted with water to do a thorough cleaning within a day after shooting, your guns will survive with no damage.

351 WINCHESTER
April 10, 2012, 02:32 PM
It is just as corrosive as real black, but doesn't crud up like black. As long as you clean it with hot water you will be fine. 777 is much better imho.

Pancho
April 10, 2012, 03:27 PM
I use BP when I can get it and Pyrodex when I can't. Pyrodex seems to be no more corrosive than BP but then again I don't give either one a chance. I use hot water and follow up with a wipe down with ballistol and never have had a problem.

rcflint
April 10, 2012, 03:27 PM
I found Pyrodex much more corrosive than real BP. With non-corrosive caps, in a dry climate like Arizona, the bp can go for many days without cleaning, Pyrodex cannot. It's also more corrosive on Brass in a cartridge load.

josmund
April 10, 2012, 10:52 PM
If you're shooting Pyro, plan on cleaning your gun at the end of the day.

Can you wait 1,2 3 days? Perhaps, but why chance it. You'll need to clean it anyway so get'er done.

hawkeye74
April 10, 2012, 11:41 PM
The main difference is what causes the corrosion. With BP, the primary corrosion is caused by salts. The pyrodex produces an acid based corrosion, all of the subs do. If you clean them WELL promptly, no major problems, but it is best to use a BASE as part of the cleaning process with the subs to nuetralize the acid.

BP can heavily pit a barrel and the barrel still perform well. The barrels where Pyrodex goes uncleaned the acid will eat the rifling out of a barrel in short order making it totally useless.

BHP FAN
April 11, 2012, 03:08 AM
Pyrodex was invented by the devil to ruin guns. On one occasion, I inherited some, used it for an outing, and [ based on the results] used the rest of it for fertilizer, for which it works pretty well. I won't put that crud in my guns, but you're welcome to. It's more prone to hydrating than BP, less powerfull, and more corrosive, and while I know not everyone can get ahold of real black powder, anything Pyrodex can do, Triple Seven can do better. Other than that, it's fine.

Noz
April 11, 2012, 10:25 AM
I'm on the dis-like side. I use it in shotgun loads because I got some real cheap. I insure that the shotgun is at least wiped down right after the shoot finishes.
I have a very nice Ithaca-SKB that I used, with Pyrodex rounds, to kill some black birds. I forgot to wipe it down and I have a pitted area on the outside of the muzzles for my punishment.

doubleh
April 11, 2012, 11:19 AM
I can't tell any difference. I clean my guns thouroughly after each shooting session and have had no corrosion problems with either.

Fingers McGee
April 11, 2012, 01:03 PM
You will get replies from some who think Pyrodex was invented by the devil to ruin guns.


Count me in the 'invented by the devil' column. That's the only place that fouls smelling stuff could have come from.

I had a bad experience with it many, many years ago in a frontstuffer at a rendezvous and have not forgotten it.

ZVP
April 11, 2012, 01:51 PM
I've always used Pyrodex because I can't get real BP locally or even within 80 miles and have had no problems.
Once due to illness, I didn't clean my '58 Remington for 7 days ( it only had 10 shots thru it tho ) and with a Windex and Water washdown it cleaned right up!
I think the metal preservative you use has a lot to do with it. I use CLP Break- Free for a lube and for all metal surfaces. That stuff really works!
ZVP

junkman_01
April 11, 2012, 02:17 PM
It is not black powder nor Pyrodex that corrodes guns by itself. It is the moisture that they attract that does the corroding. If you are in a very dry place (low humidity) you won't get any corrosion with either product.

Busyhands94
April 11, 2012, 04:23 PM
I use Pyrodex, but I always clean my guns after every range trip as soon as I get home and have never opened the trunk to find all my guns coated in rust. There's a ton of ways to clean blackpowder guns, everyone has their own way and says it works better than the other ones. I personally just use soap and water, wipe it all dry, then slap a coat of Hoppes oil on there. No rust problems at all, and I've been doing that ever since I got into blackpowder.

If I could find real blackpowder I'd buy that instead of Pyrodex, but I can't and for Christmas and my birthday my family has gotten into the habit of getting a pound of Pyrodex pistol for me. It's not bad stuff, sure I prefer Triple Seven but Pyrodex will do just fine for plinking and informal target shooting.

Levi

alsaqr
April 12, 2012, 10:06 AM
Pyrodex will rust your gun if its not cleaned soon after firing. Never had any rust problems from using Pyrodex. i use Windex with vinegar to clean my muzzleloaders. After the bore is swabbed dry, a patch moistened with ProTech is run through the bore. If the gun will be put away for awhile the bore is then swabbed dry and lubed with MiliTec or a light oil.

zimmerstutzen
April 12, 2012, 10:44 AM
I bought a pound of Pyroduh back around 1983 and made the mistake of shooting it in an original trapdoor springfield. Despite three cleanings, rust kept appearing in the bore. I even put a pinch of baking soda in the hot water.

In an older gun, there are scores of microscopic crevices in the metal, in addition to the pits and wear with age. Once the acid gets into those crevices, it is a SOB to clean out. It seems to hide and keeps coming out as rust for days.

Holy Black fouling is easier to neutralize and doesn't keep giving the way Pyroduh fouling does. With real black in the same trapdoor, I use old WW2 surplus bore cleaner. Stinky stuff with benzene. It will neutralize the fouling from real black almost immediately and I would sometimes let the gun sit for days before a good cleaning and no rust if I gave it a good once over with the bore cleaner before I went home. (i even use that bore cleaner on my muzzle guns before leaving the range.)

Plastikosmd
April 12, 2012, 12:12 PM
I hated shooting muzzleloaders. For some reason, I did not think real BP was easily available (it is always behind the counter up here.) One day I got a fancy BP gun and some BP with it and gave it a try. No more pyrodex and now my BP stuff outnumbers my centerfires. Maybe it is the temp/humidity/area that I live, etc. but BP is much easier to ignite and clean in my firearms.

AbitNutz
April 12, 2012, 04:36 PM
Man I shoot it all...black, Pyrodex, you name it. I just take the grips off my SS ROA squirt it down with Ballistol and put it in the dish washer. Then squirt it again after its dry.

junkman_01
April 12, 2012, 04:51 PM
If you are going to just remove the grips, why not just put it in a pail of water. I think you would would reduce your water bill that way. :confused:

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
April 12, 2012, 07:41 PM
I remove the grips and go to the speical little room I have it the house just
for cleaning and put it in the little white bowl that has water in it and give
it what I call a "Flush Clean" Three or four flushes and she comes out clean.

joecil
April 12, 2012, 07:54 PM
I've been shooting it a year now in my Uberti Cattleman, Liberty 12 ga shotgun and Rossi 92 both in 45 Colt with no problems cleaning it when I get home. I clean by using Simple Green followed by a rinse with water. I then blow it dry with compressed air and follow that with Hoppes #9 and lubing with Break Free CLP and Tetra Grease. I've seen no rust or corrosion at all after a full season of shooting it exclusively in my NCOWS cowboy action group.

foghornl
April 12, 2012, 08:07 PM
kwhi...your method made me laugh.

Just hope you never lose your grip on it....................

arcticap
April 12, 2012, 10:26 PM
This reply from Hodgdon about the corrosiveness of Pyrodex has previously been posted on several forums:




Ok, here’s the deal. I get this question 50 times a year and they all originate from web sites. The problem with the internet is that there are so many “experts” who really have no knowledge but want to portray themselves as the keepers of all knowledge as long as they can hide in the anonymity of the internet.

Yes, Pyrodex contains pecrhlorates.

No, they do not etch the barrel at some minute level so small it can only be viewed under a full moon while wearing a wizard outfit.

NASA and the DOD both have tested and used Pyrodex over the past 35 years. Their testing contradicts the “experts” on the internet. They found Pyrodex to be no more corrosive than black powder.

Cleaning of Pyrodex residue is the same as black powder. No petro solvents, only water based or polar solvents. Soap is great. Windex with vinegar is great, Ballistol is the best thing for cleaning muzzleloaders I have ever seen, with all powders.

I don’t know how to make it any more plain, no special problems with Pyrodex. Shoot the gun, Clean the gun completely and you are just fine.

Those who want to continue to spew about their “expert” knowledge about the corrosiveness of Pyrodex and how it magically micro-pits barrels are going to continue to spew the same old tired stuff. How could the continue to be the anonymous “expert” hiding on the internet if they gave up. That is just the nature of the internet. I (we) are bound by truth, the “experts” are bound by their imaginations.

I hope this helps. I would say that it may be best to just give the best advice ever, “When you want to know about a product, call the maker. 800-622-4366”


Mike Daly

Customer Satisfaction Manager

The Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants

Hodgdon Smokeless Powders

Winchester Legendary Propellants

IMR Propellants

Pyrodex

Triple Seven

Goex Black Powder

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4020904/Re_Pyrodex_Corrosion

MCgunner
April 12, 2012, 11:05 PM
I don't care if it's Black (which I cannot get) or Pyrodex or 777, I clean 'em at the end of the day. Lazy gets you nowhere with ANY corrosive propellant. If you're that lazy, stick to smokeless. It was an improvement for more than THIS reason, ya know.

I like the 777 but find myself shooting more pyrodex lately primarily because I like the sulfur smell, more like the holy black. 777 is cleaner and shoots harder, but it's sort of a sanitary smoke, no neat sulfur smell.

The only BP subs I DON'T like are Blackhorn 209 or Buckhorn or whatever that crap is that takes a blasting cap to ignite and the APP Shockey's Gold which goes bad in 10 minutes down here in this humidity.

AbitNutz
April 13, 2012, 07:39 AM
We have a well....and geothermal HVAC...water is not a concern...

As far as giving the pistol a swirly...I'm against firing "poo ball".

zimmerstutzen
April 13, 2012, 03:18 PM
Frankly, whether what he says is true or not, I would not expect any different response from a representative of Hogdon.

So, perhaps, we need a test. My thoughts are take a piece of bar stock so the steel is the same. Clean it good. Pour 15 grains of black in a spot on one end and light it. then repeat five times. Do the same on the other end with an equal volume of Pyroduh and place the piece of bar stock out in my pump house, so it is exposed to humidity but not weather. And photograph the results each day. We could even use a spot in the middle as a neutral to show the corrosion from just humidity on the steel.

See which, if any, produces the most evidence of corrosion.

Would that be scientific enough?

junkman_01
April 13, 2012, 03:42 PM
Make sure you document each step with pics, as it's clear from your posts that you do not like Pyrodex (Pyroduh).:uhoh:

J-Bar
April 13, 2012, 07:04 PM
additional reading for entertainment and such...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_pyrodex.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/doc_white2.htm

Acorn Mush
April 13, 2012, 08:26 PM
So, perhaps, we need a test. My thoughts are take a piece of bar stock so the steel is the same. Clean it good. Pour 15 grains of black in a spot on one end and light it. then repeat five times. Do the same on the other end with an equal volume of Pyroduh and place the piece of bar stock out in my pump house, so it is exposed to humidity but not weather. And photograph the results each day. We could even use a spot in the middle as a neutral to show the corrosion from just humidity on the steel.

See which, if any, produces the most evidence of corrosion.

Go for it Zimmerstutzen! If you can leave your sample under the proposed conditions for a long term, say six months, the results may be very interesting indeed.

Plastikosmd
April 13, 2012, 09:07 PM
I think we should come up with accepted parameters and have a few of us try it

zimmerstutzen
April 13, 2012, 09:25 PM
I have a few pieces of bar stock
A piece that is 1 x12 ought to be large enough.
My thought would be to sand the surface to make sure it is clean metal
Clean it well and namely the ends for black & pyro
Then measure out and burn 5 equal charges of each
Place out of the weatheri

frontiergander
April 13, 2012, 10:59 PM
Whats the test going to prove? Both black powder and pyrodex will destroy a barrel when you dont clean it?

Plastikosmd
April 14, 2012, 11:10 AM
I will poke around for a scrap barrel to cut up. Maybe mimic bore condtion and the outside/surface condition. Maybe several storage locations (outside/garage/basement/house) and see how it changes over a fixed period of time. Could do new england vs west vs south etc. Of course different steels may become an issue between test sites. I was thinking lit bp/pyro, unlit pb/pyro and blank steel as control.

Pyro
April 14, 2012, 11:36 AM
Works just fine. Use it in my pistol and my shotshell reloads.
People on the internet think to much.

zimmerstutzen
April 14, 2012, 12:08 PM
I suspect modern steel is much different than older steel and iron barrels. Cleanup with modern steel is probably less problematic.

ie Where there are more microscopic pores in the older steels if would be a problem.

If you only shoot modern recently made guns, there may be little to no problem. My experience has been that in old barrels Pyrodex is far worse.

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