Kel-Tec P 11


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MrDig
April 10, 2012, 08:50 PM
Anyone have any experience with them?
I can't really afford the Ruger or the Walther in the same size and would really like a Pocket Gun for the Summer months.
The P 11 holds 10+1 and has a 12 round mag available. The PF 9 is I believe a single stack and is a little slimmer than the 11.
According to the Literature the PF 9 has a shorter DAO trigger than the P 11 but I tested the 11 and don't mind the length of pull.
I'm asking if others have experience with one not if you think I should buy a different gun.
With a spare mag I'm thinking if I need more than 21 rounds I'm in an environment too target rich and deserve what I get for being there.

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Snowshoe
April 10, 2012, 09:03 PM
I use mine as a carry gun quite a bit.
It is light, thin and has 11 rounds.

This is definitely a "Carry a lot, Shoot a little" pistol.

Recoil is stout and the grip is not a lot of help.
The trigger is stiff but not unbearable.

If you are looking for a range/play gun, I would keep looking.
If you want it for carry I think it's great.

Invest in the belt hook and the magazine finger ledge.
I works really well inside the pants.
I found it heavy for pocket carry though:)

As with all things....YMMV

Coyote3855
April 10, 2012, 09:26 PM
We have 3 P-11s in the family. My wife uses hers for a car gun, my son carries his backpacking in southern Arizona. Our experience, they are decent guns for the money. Run a couple hundred rounds of hardball through it, then be sure it works with your chosen defensive loads. I agree with the belt hook for carry, although IWB needs a chrome slide or a daily oiling against sweat.

Jeremiah10:23
April 10, 2012, 09:36 PM
I have the P40 which physically identical and love it as far concealing it. My main dislike is the fact that I have large hands and sometimes eject the mag. Overall I have learned to like it.

lil dragon
April 10, 2012, 09:53 PM
I had one. I should have never sold it but wanted a range toy for my 10 year old daughter. It went nearly everywhere with me. After a while you don't notice the weight so much. It was fairly accurate with Federal 124 grain PD and reliable. I say go for it. You wont be disappointed...

Nico Testosteros
April 10, 2012, 09:58 PM
My P11 was my first pistol. I like it, for what it is. Trigger pull is long and hard but it's accurate, for such a small gun. With brass or aluminum cased ammo it's reliable. It doesn't like cheap polymer coated stuff.
I recommend a Hogue Handall Jr grip and the trigger shoe and the pencil eraser trigger stop mod.

It has no firing pin block safety. I've read it can fire if dropped "right."
I've dropped mine but it didnt go off.

frankmako
April 10, 2012, 10:54 PM
i got two and they are good guns. they are not range gun, but they make good carry gun for the price. the belt clip works well for summer carry.

wild cat mccane
April 10, 2012, 11:18 PM
I say it every P11 thread. It is one a very few modern autos that does not have a physical drop safety. You would be held liable for an accidental discharge.

Not worth the litigation nighmare (7 million dollars is the average negligent death suit award in America).

wild cat mccane
April 10, 2012, 11:19 PM
Here is proof that it will fire when dropped before someone comes in and says they dropped it this one time on concrete and nothing happened therefore it can't ever.

http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/droptestresults.htm

orionengnr
April 11, 2012, 12:01 AM
I bought one because I thought it would be an "improvement" over my Kahr PM9 (11 rounds vice 7).

I quickly noted the error of my ways. It went away, and four years later, my PM9 is stilll here. Yes, the PM9 is more expensive, but you can find a used one for ~$500, or a CM9 for ~$400.

Kiln
April 11, 2012, 12:48 AM
The P11 is a great gun. I've dropped my P40 (same gun in .40 S&W) a few times and it has never went off. I've read that the gun will go off if dropped directly onto the muzzle from around three feet but is unlikely to go off when dropped at other angles.

If you get one make sure to pick up a pinky extension that attaches to the magazine base, it will make the gun much easier to use.

TennJed
April 11, 2012, 01:24 AM
Here is proof that it will fire when dropped before someone comes in and says they dropped it this one time on concrete and nothing happened therefore it can't ever.

http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/droptestresults.htm
Having a hard time following that link, was any alterations made to that P11 or is it all factory (springs, firing pin ect)?

edit to see that he says he shortened the firing pin spring on the tested gun. Are there any reports of firing when dropped on Factory P11s?

http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/droptest.htm

shiftyer1
April 11, 2012, 03:02 AM
I've had mine for 5 or 6 years and it's held up ok. I don't shoot it alot but it does get shot. It has a looong trigger pull but that is the only safety on the gun. It's small and light enough that carrying it is never a bother.

It does rust quickly so be prepared.

Kiln
April 11, 2012, 03:07 AM
Yeah I forgot to mention, 2500+ rounds through my P40 so they hold up fine.

MCgunner
April 11, 2012, 11:10 AM
I stopped estimating at 11K rounds in my P11 which I've been carrying since 1996. I don't shoot it as regularly at the range as I once did, makes counting rounds a little harder to do. I pocket carry and love the gun for that with its true DAO long trigger. I've dropped mine several times over the years and it never went bang. It is designed with a zero inertia hammer which eliminates the need for a drop safety. I just believe none of what I hear and half of what I see and nothing from the internet. I mean, I'll take suggestions, but some folks have agendas. If it were not drop safe, Kel Tec wouldn't be in business anymore for all the tort suits. :rolleyes: I'll carry it, won't pocket carry a Glock 26, can tell ya that, when it comes to safety. I consider the gun MUCH safer than a Glock for pocket carry in a soft holster.

I had one problem not long ago, finally broke a part, the extractor. I got one from Kel Tec in the mail free of charge and installed it myself. The gun is accurate and reliable. Mine hasn't rusted despite the sweaty summer pockets, but the bluing doesn't look real nice anymore. So long as the bullet goes where I place it, I really don't care about a bit of pocket wear in a carry gun.

momano
April 11, 2012, 12:38 PM
IMHO, the Ruger LC9 is worth the extra $100. I had a P11 and traded it off because the recoil aggravated my arthritis. The LC9 is a joy to shoot; both the recoil and accuracy are better in my experience. Good luck!

wild cat mccane
April 11, 2012, 02:27 PM
Unlike the other Kel Tec guns, the P11 is a true double action that does not to be reset by cycling the slide after each shot.

That is why it doesn't have drop safety by design-from what I've read at KTOG. Not that it doesn't need it.

A guy had one drop bang while sitting in a booth at a Chilies or something like that here in Utah. Google using KSL.com as part of the search. Picture clearly shows a P11.

You can't say "i dropped it a couple of times and it didn't fire" and say that conclusively proves it is drop safe. At 4 feet in the link above they clearly are striking hard enough.

MCgunner
April 11, 2012, 05:56 PM
All internet hearsay and I consider the gun, with zero inertia hammer, plenty safe and safer than "safe action" guns to carry by virtue of its true DAO trigger. If you're that paranoid of guns, don't carry one. They can be dangerous.

If P11s are that unsafe, why is KT still making them and how is it that KT is still in business, not besieged with lawsuits? :rolleyes:

TennJed
April 11, 2012, 06:42 PM
I understand what you are saying. and you have admitted to bringing this up everytime the P11 is mentioned.

But it looks like the only examples are a guy in utah and someone else that modified the firing pin screen.

I am not sure that is nearly enough evidence to make me feel that the gun is unsafe. One guy in utah vs a lot of owners who have dropped their guns with no issues.

No offense, but curious as to why you feel strongly enough about this to bring up on every thread.

With the legal system the way it is, i would be suprised any company would knowingly sell a gun that was not drop safe. Obviuosly there is not nearly enough evidence for kel tec to see an issue.

walker944
April 11, 2012, 10:28 PM
I have two of the P11s also. They are very reliable, and a preferred carry gun for me. I keep one in my truck, and holster the other. They aren't gorgeous, but I prefer that for a frequently handled gun...not worried about scratching it up. It is, however, 100% functional, and the 11 rounds is a big plus. I paid $175 for one, and $225 for the other...both used. Highly recommend the pistol...but, it may not be for everybody.

Don357
April 12, 2012, 12:28 AM
As far as the Ruger vs Kel-Tec... Why buy the knockoff when you can buy the original cheaper?

I've had a P-11 for about 8 years now, and it's been dropped more times than I care to admit, with no accidental firings. Not that it won't happen, it could, but it can with ANY gun. At least you can't accidentally pull the trigger like you can on guns with the "safe action" trigger system.

And I think Wild Cat McCane is a trolling gun snob who dislikes and find fault with any gun that costs under $400, except his.

Ditchtiger
April 12, 2012, 01:10 AM
I've run 4000+ through mine.
The only issues were when my quality reloads were not.
Not a tack driver but I would trust my life with it.

wickedsprint
April 12, 2012, 06:17 AM
Buddy likes his, says no issues reliability wise but admits trigger needs work.

MCgunner
April 12, 2012, 02:22 PM
The trigger needs no work, not for pocket carry. If it were a target gun, the trigger would need work, but that's not what it is. It is for serious social work and carried discretely. It has the perfect trigger for pocket carry in a soft holster IMHO. I can shoot 3.5" groups to POA with mine off bags at 25 yards and mow down 6 for 6 8" plates off hand at that range, but I wouldn't enter a bullseye shoot with it.

wild cat mccane
April 12, 2012, 04:21 PM
The fella that did the drop test (you did see there are ones without the firing pin being played with?) is/was pretty big at KTOG.

I bring it up because your chance of having to use a gun is frankly zero. The chance that you drop your gun while changing it off you ever single day...around loved ones or other people...?

The guy in Utah is a great example. Seated, from 2 feet it drop fired. No one in here has admitted their gun landed on the muzzle...

TennJed
April 12, 2012, 08:04 PM
The fella that did the drop test (you did see there are ones without the firing pin being played with?) is/was pretty big at KTOG.

I bring it up because your chance of having to use a gun is frankly zero. The chance that you drop your gun while changing it off you ever single day...around loved ones or other people...?

The guy in Utah is a great example. Seated, from 2 feet it drop fired. No one in here has admitted their gun landed on the muzzle...

I am still having a hard time following that link. The other ones with the factory springs, were they other guns of his? did he have other people participate in the study? Did he replace the parts in his gun?

not disputing or trying to be argumentive just trying to understand. He does not mention other guns in his description, he only mentions the altered gun. Where did the factory stock results come from?

The p11 has been around a while now and lots have been sold and this is the only reports claiming that it is not drop safe

Kiln
April 13, 2012, 05:17 PM
I read that it is very unlikely to go off in any way other than being dropped directly on the muzzle due to the design.

If you do drop it on the muzzle and it goes off at least it is discharging into the floor. Personally I'm not too worried about it.

wunderkind
April 14, 2012, 01:17 AM
The trigger on mine was horrendous. Didn't break until the VERY end of a loooong pull.

The new Taurus Slim is striker fired with a supposedly Glock-like quick/audible reset. And there is one on GunsAmerica for $315+15 shipping. Not too much more than a P11 with a much better trigger.

MCgunner
April 14, 2012, 12:52 PM
The trigger on mine was horrendous. Didn't break until the VERY end of a loooong pull.

What you describe as "horrendous" to me is the BEST part of the P11 for CCW carry. Once used to it (one must shoot it to get used to it), it's very controllable, very smooth, very repeatable, and has just a hint of staging at the end for placing your shots, but that does not interfere with fast shooting. It is VERY safe to carry in a pocket. Long, heavy revolver like DA guns are the only way to go for ME for pocket carry in a soft pocket holster.

Again, this is NOT a target gun, but it is surprisingly accurate. It's fully capable of acceptable service gun accuracy, under 4" off the bench at 25 yards from sand bags. It's like having a service 9 in my pocket and with near service carry ammo capacity.

wild cat mccane
April 14, 2012, 02:10 PM
Horrendous:
Extremely long, at 9 pounds, with a thin trigger (hence the kel tec offering of a trigger overlay for width), not smooth (hard at start with an inconsistent pull after), has over travel (hence people making the "white trigger stop" on KTOG...

I think that's what he meant by the P11 having a horrible trigger?

* I have carried a P3AT for years. Not bashing on Kel Tec in general...just this gun specifically.

Hossfly68
April 14, 2012, 04:20 PM
The trigger gets better with time and use. And call me naive but I've never understood the problem with dropping a gun. I've never dropped one. It's either in my holster or in my hand. Is there a group of clumsy shooters out there that I haven't heard about?

MCgunner
April 14, 2012, 06:00 PM
Not sure where these unsmooth P11 triggers are. Mine don't have one nor does my SIL's that is a little lighter trigger than my old one.

Is there a group of clumsy shooters out there that I haven't heard about?

Yeah, and I'll bet these are some of the same folks that claim they can keep their booger picker out of the "bang switch" on a Glock. If they can keep from Glock leggin' themselves while holstering, looks like they'd have to dexterity to holster a Kel Tec without dropping it. Strange.

I'll admit I've dropped mine once or twice over the 16 years I've been carrying it. It didn't go bang. It always seems to go bang when I want it to, pretty much what counts I reckon.

MR.G
May 10, 2012, 09:12 AM
Mine has fired about 450 rounds without any failures. Looks like it has had more use because the finish has worn off in spots from pocket carry. Have shot some +P and no signs of excessive wear. Recently picked up some
9BPLE +P+ that I want to try in it.

Mooseman
May 10, 2012, 03:13 PM
I've been using mine as my main carry for years now. The frame clip makes it super easy to slip on as I'm heading out the door. I agree with other posters that the magazine extension really helps hold onto it. Overall I really like this little gun.

On the other hand, the trigger does take some getting used too and it will never be a fun gun to use at the range. I think it's rather heavy for pocket carry and the slides tend to rust if you're using the frame clip. I've also noticed that it should be cleaned and lightly oiled every few weeks if you're carrying it daily, mine tends to get lint build up in the hammer slot.

jrdolall
May 10, 2012, 03:27 PM
I went with the PF9 because of the lighter weight and I carry it in my pocket. I bought it used, always a bad deal for me with a pistol, and had to send it to the smith for some work as I was having a LOT of light strikes. New spring and a totally cleaned out firing pin and I fired 50 rounds of Tula this past weekend with no FtFs of any sort.

The PF9 has a lighter trigger than the P11 but it is still plenty safe for pocket carry. The trade off between the two is the lighter weight vs the extra rounds. I do not own a P11 but have shot one extensively. The trigger is very long which makes it a very safe gun.
Try not to drop it on the muzzle from 3 feet please.

MrDig
May 10, 2012, 03:40 PM
So I did get a P11 and am quite happy with it. The trigger is a little long but not that hard to pull for me.
I like that it is still effectively a pocket gun but then I am rather corpulent and tend to have a little more material available in my clothing than most....
Another plus is the fact that if Gods forbid I am involved in a shooting I'm not letting the Local LEO's keep my Hi-Power in lock-up while they investigate. If it gets held as "Evidence" I'm out $250.00 as opposed to $800 or better.

Lonerider357
May 11, 2012, 03:51 AM
I had one a few years back. Was unloading it one day, dropped the mag and went to rack it to remove the chambered round, lost my grip on the slide and it fired!!!! A bookshelf and 2 walls later the bullet lodged in my roommate's dresser in his bedroom!!! I went to the gun show the next day and sold it!!!

sheepdog on duty
May 13, 2012, 01:00 AM
I bought a P-11 about 4 years ago and pocket carried it primarily. At the time it was between the P-11 and the PF9. I recently bought the PF9 and there is a big difference in comfort, weight (especially considering a loaded one), and printing. I would buy the PF9. If you are worried about capacity, just buy 2 or 3 extra mags. They are light and you can carry them in multiple places on your body if need be.

engineer88
May 13, 2012, 01:56 AM
I have had both and for pocket carry between P11 and PF9 I highly recommend the PF9 (size and weight). But what do I know, most days I pocket carry a P32 since many of my pockets are too shallow for my PF9 or my beloved Jframes. :(

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