In the land of single stack 9's


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Averageman
April 11, 2012, 08:08 AM
It's ironic to me that so many single stack mini 9's have become suddenly popular and we have stacks of Makarov's @ $200 a pop everywhere you look.
Now it's definatly not a precison accuracy pistol, it's a belly gun thats cheap, reliable and easily hidden.
Is it overlooked by the general population as a viable alternative to a new wonder mini 9?

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scythefwd
April 11, 2012, 08:23 AM
Is 9mm mak still easy to get? Does it come in a hollow point?

It appears it still is. The mak is a direct blowback.. not generally as comfortable as the delayed blowback. It's a bit heavier. You can get a new keltec, with a lifetime warranty for not that much more than a used mak.

gotigers
April 11, 2012, 08:39 AM
occasionaly, Aim Surplus has them for +/-$220. A friend at work has one. It stays next to his bed. It seems to be capable of being a go to gun. There are better, but at the price of the guns and ammo, why not.

loneviking
April 11, 2012, 08:42 AM
9 Mak costs about double that of 9mm, and half again as much as .380 where I live. If you reload, the RCBS dies cost over $60 which is twice as much as 9mm or .380. In over four years of picking up brass at the local range I've picked up maybe a handful of 9 Maks as compared to thousands of 9mm and .380. That, in turn, means that if I wanted to reload I'm going to also have to buy brass and can't rely on the local range for a supply. Looks like a losing proposition to me, which is why I sold mine.

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 11, 2012, 08:56 AM
Go online for ammo, you'll find it's cheaper then 9mm there.
http://www.jgsales.com/ammo-for-handguns-c-25_30.html

Vonderek
April 11, 2012, 09:55 AM
If you shoot a lot, you will quickly use up the savings on buying a cheap gun with the expense of costlier ammo. If you like the 9x18 and the gun then it's a great buy but I would prefer a 9x19 which is cheaper to shoot and a more effective round. And there are less expensive guns like the Kel-Tecs so you really aren't saving that much in the first place.

pockets
April 11, 2012, 10:14 AM
I love shooting my Makarov pistol, it's a joy. I shoot it a lot. I also have an FEG PA-63 and Radom P-64, both chambered in 9x18mm as well. 9x18 ammo is reasonably inexpensive, easy to order, and plentiful.

However, when comparing the Makarov to something like a Kel-Tec PF9 or it's Ruger copy, the Makarov is larger, heavier, and a lot wider. It was designed to be open carried in a military holster and withstand the rigors of the battlefield. YES, it can be carried concealed...but to me it is simply more expedient to 'carry' a modern pistol designed for CC.
The newer polymer frame pistols like the PF9 or LC9 are simply easier to carry and conceal (smaller, lighter, thinner). Not to mention that they are chambered for the more powerful 9x19 cartridge.
Oh yes: brand new, the PF-9 cost me only about $50 more than my old Bulgarian Makarov cost surplus.

Also to consider; the 9x18 isn't much more powerful than the .380acp. In that light, a P3AT, LCP, etc etc would be far smaller and lighter to carry than a Makarov.

But hey, I still love too shoot my pistols chambered in 9x18.

.

ahil925
April 11, 2012, 10:16 AM
Last time I checked at the nearest Academy Sports&Outdoors 9x18 was running about a dollar less then the cheapest brass cased 9x19. Not alot of selection bullet wise though. I guess it all depends on where you are.

Madcap_Magician
April 11, 2012, 10:28 AM
Eh. 9 x 18 mm ammo is cheap, true, but there's not a great selection of self-defense ammo for it. Also, the direct blowback action seems to me like it increases felt recoil. And the Makarov is small, but there are 9mm Parabellum guns that are smaller and subjectively more comfortable to shoot.

NG VI
April 11, 2012, 12:18 PM
Now it's definatly not a precison accuracy pistol, it's a belly gun thats cheap, reliable and easily hidden.
Is it overlooked by the general population as a viable alternative to a new wonder mini 9?

Well, the Makarovs are great pieces of 20th Century history to own, and are definitely a serviceable pistol, but the Makarovs weight puts them in the same class as the subcompact and compact Glocks, and all the other pistols available in that weight and size class. And they are superior fighting weapons to the Makarov, because they are commercially produced pistols that draw on up to 120 years of life experience with autoloading pistols.
And they are significantly more powerful, the range of ordinarily encountered loadings puts it in a very desireable position, where a 9mm bullet can be designed to both expand well and penetrate well, where the .380 and 9mm Mak force designers to choose between no expansion

PabloJ
April 11, 2012, 12:26 PM
It's ironic to me that so many single stack mini 9's have become suddenly popular and we have stacks of Makarov's @ $200 a pop everywhere you look.
Now it's definatly not a precison accuracy pistol, it's a belly gun thats cheap, reliable and easily hidden.
Is it overlooked by the general population as a viable alternative to a new wonder mini 9?
Having had one I would buy Ruger LC9 instead. The 9x18 was appealing when surplus Makarov pistols were $120 and ammo was "dirt cheap".

Averageman
April 11, 2012, 12:41 PM
Well, the Makarovs are great pieces of 20th Century history to own, and are definitely a serviceable pistol, but the Makarovs weight puts them in the same class as the subcompact and compact Glocks, and all the other pistols available in that weight and size class. How is a G26 cmparable in size and weight to a Makarov?And they are superior fighting weapons to the Makarov, because they are commercially produced pistols that draw on up to 120 years of life experience with autoloading pistols.
I dont care if we compare them to any commercially produced weapon, but to be fair I think similar Guns such as the Mak and LC9 aren't fighting guns, but a last ditch weapon. Hopefully that isn't all of the gun you bring to a gun fight.
Ammo selection is certainly limited almost completely to ball ammo, but at bad breath range is that an issue?
Lets face it when it comes to subcompact pistols it isn't my first choice by far, but is certainly overlooked for lesser more modern flavors of the weak.

Certaindeaf
April 11, 2012, 12:46 PM
The Star BKM has been around for a long time.

PabloJ
April 11, 2012, 01:03 PM
Well, the Makarovs are great pieces of 20th Century history to own, and are definitely a serviceable pistol, but the Makarovs weight puts them in the same class as the subcompact and compact Glocks, and all the other pistols available in that weight and size class. How is a G26 cmparable in size and weight to a Makarov?And they are superior fighting weapons to the Makarov, because they are commercially produced pistols that draw on up to 120 years of life experience with autoloading pistols.
I dont care if we compare them to any commercially produced weapon, but to be fair I think similar Guns such as the Mak and LC9 aren't fighting guns, but a last ditch weapon. Hopefully that isn't all of the gun you bring to a gun fight.
Ammo selection is certainly limited almost completely to ball ammo, but at bad breath range is that an issue?
Lets face it when it comes to subcompact pistols it isn't my first choice by far, but is certainly overlooked for lesser more modern flavors of the weak.
You forgot one bit of info. Used PM magazines are about $30 a piece:barf: if you can find them.
With what is available out there there is little reason to buy Makarov nowadays. It's about same size as S&W CS45.

Nushif
April 11, 2012, 02:48 PM
I want a Makarov and some dies just so I can shoot one a lot. "Better pistol," "better round" be damned.
I love the way they look, and the one time I got to shoot one it felt awesome. The fact that I could actually conceal one makes it a pretty darned good pistol in my book.

beatledog7
April 11, 2012, 03:21 PM
Subcompact pistols chambered in 9mm Luger are more popular than all other 9mm variants chiefly because the people who want a small SD pistol in many cases already have a larger 9mm pistol, thus they already have ammo or reload 9mm Luger.

That, and 9mm Luger ammo is ubiquitous.

Jaymo
April 11, 2012, 07:10 PM
Subcompact 9s lose a good bit of velocity compared to their full sized counterparts.

The Makarov and CZ 82 are both accurate, reliable guns with good triggers.

I've never paid more than $10.00 for Makarov mags. I don't know where people are getting them for $30.00, but they're getting ripped off.
I bought quite a few mags for mine a few years ago.

I buy ammo for no more than $15.00 a box, locally.

Would I rather trust my life to a Mak than to a 44 or 45? No.
Would I rather carry my Mak than my .45? Yep.

My Mak and CZ82 are also both more comfortable to shoot than my Kel Tec P3AT.
Plus, the longer barrel yields higher velocity.

David E
April 11, 2012, 07:31 PM
Would I rather trust my life to a Mak than to a 44 or 45? No.
Would I rather carry my Mak than my .45? Yep.


Then you ARE choosing to trust your life to a .380 magnum.

Me, my bottom line is 9x19, even tho good guns for it cost more. I figure my family and I are worth it.

SharpsDressedMan
April 11, 2012, 08:34 PM
I made the choice a little while back to eliminate the Makarov from my lineup. It is a fine weapon, super reliable, easy to shoot, accurate, and I respect the Makarov a lot. However, for its size and weight, it did not stack up against the S&W 3914 & 3913 that I have. The S&W's are just as reliable, accurate, and equally concealable, but more powerful, and maybe a little more ergonomic. Since I reload, 9mm Luger ammo is cheaper than Russian steel case, NC current ammo, and there are a hundred more high performance loadings for 9mm Luger than 9mm Mak if commercial ammo is to be used.

jon_in_wv
April 30, 2012, 09:00 PM
It's ironic to me that so many single stack mini 9's have become suddenly popular and we have stacks of Makarov's @ $200 a pop everywhere you look.
Now it's definatly not a precison accuracy pistol, it's a belly gun thats cheap, reliable and easily hidden.
Is it overlooked by the general population as a viable alternative to a new wonder mini 9?

Yup, and load your belly gun up with a clip of dum dums and you can blow a hole the size of your fist through him.

But seriously, the Makarov was designed as a combat pistol and served for longer than almost any other pistol in that capacity. Its capable of great accuraccy and is one of the most reliable combat pistols ever made. I think calling it a "belly gun" is a little on the silly side.

If you put aside the caliber wars, the posturing, and the gee my weapon is cooler stuff, and you have a weapon that is super tough, superbly reliable, accurate, and with enough power to be deadly in the Makarov. I'm sure more than one Russian, Bulgarian, Chinese, etc...... soldier would tell you they trusted their life to it just fine. All things being equal is a more powerful round better? Yes, but none of the 45s I've had were better shooters or more capable than my Makarov.

Girodin
April 30, 2012, 11:48 PM
I like the the old 9x18 guns but the new nines offer various advantages.

As others have stated 9x19 is a superior round. It is more powerful and even more importantly comes in many more quality SD loads. It is also a round that can be purchased everywhere.

The single stack nines are also available in arguably superior platforms. Take a CW9 for example. It is roughly nine ounces lighter, that's not insignificant. It is smaller in every dimension. It has roughly the same capacity. The Mak is blow back and as such has IMHO more felt recoil. It also can be bought for $350 new.

A Glock 26 is not much bigger and is lighter than a mak.

For a hundred or a couple hundred dollars more I'd buy the gun I really want. A Mak is a serviceable gun though and a good value. Not my first choice though.

TimboKhan
May 1, 2012, 12:33 AM
I don't know that anyone would choose a Mak over any number of modern, purpose designed concealed carry guns. However, economic reality being what it is, it is a very good low cost option, and that it happens to be one with some historical cachet makes it even better.

As far as ammo expense, that cost can be spread out over time, which while actually more expensive certainly doesn't feel more expensive. A Glock (for example), while not exactly expensive, is a much larger one time outlay and therefore a much harder purchase to make. The much smaller initial outlay makes the Mak very attractive to people who just want a functional pistol and don't want to crank out a (relative) ton of money.

It's not my first choice, and there are other inexpensive options out there, but the Mak isn't a bad choice at all.

Dentite
May 1, 2012, 01:38 PM
I agree with the last two posts. Mak is not a bad choice (I have two 9x18 pistols) but there are better choices in a better caliber. And what's a couple hundred dollars when you are talking about it's intended purpose.

Pilot
May 1, 2012, 02:26 PM
I carry a Makarov in 9MM Mak on occassion, but I also carry a Beretta M85FS .380, so consider the Mak to be in the same class regarding caliber.

I agree that there are better choices for CCW in 9MM Luger, like the Walther PPS. However, I would not, and do not hesitate to rely on the Makarov. It always goes bang, and hits where you point it.

jon_in_wv
May 1, 2012, 08:53 PM
From my personal experience I can list a few reasons why I would choose the Makarov over several of the other pistols I've owned regardless of caliber.

1. Reliability. I've owned several "modern" pistols that were not 100% reliable. My Makarov has gone bang every single time I've pulled the trigger.
2. Accuracy. It's at least as accurate as any other defensive pistol I've had and more accurate than most.
3. Size. It is all steel and a nice chunk of weapon for its caliber but it is also very slim and easy to carry.
4. Cost. At its price point there are VERY few guns you can buy that can hold a candle to it.

Now my everyday carry gun for the past few years has been a M&P 9C and the past few months I have gravitated towards carrying my 3913 and I wouldn't choose the Makarov over either but I wouldn't feel undergunned carrying the Mak either.

wrs840
May 1, 2012, 09:06 PM
I think the S&W 3913 or 908 would be a better choice in all parameters. I own both, and they're certainly not expensive (<$400), or large, or heavy, or unreliable. And you can usually buy a Crossbreed Supertuck "blem" holster for them off the Crossbreed blem thread at XDtalk for $35.

benzy2
May 1, 2012, 09:43 PM
It is what it is. I don't see many Makarov's at $200 a pop locally. AIM has them for $220 plus shipping and transfer fee (if you aren't a C&R holder). That puts the price much closer to $275 ($300 if you pay tax on top of that cost). Not bad but not amazing either. If a local store had a Mak priced at $200 I'd be sure to head home with at least one. Ammo is a little harder to find but often priced right with steel cased 9mm. I'm not sure I'd buy one for a duty of any kind but having one for their quality and history is certainly another issue. I had an FEG PA-63 a few years back and gave it to a friend. That pistol is the only one I have not wanted to shoot beyond a box of ammo, though I haven't shot any of the extremely massive pistols out there. From a duty use I would go with either a smaller option in .380 or a similar sized option in 9mm. If the mak or other 9x18 round were to be used for a serious use I would make sure the pistol fed the ammo selected well and run it. I wouldn't trust any of the HP to open so it would all be down to feeding reliability.

Litlman
May 1, 2012, 10:15 PM
The days of a $200 mak around here are gone a long time now. I like the Mak allot. I shoot S&B FMJ mostly, but Hornady makes a Critical defense round for it. I carry it CCW, very reliable. I also have a Feg SMC in 380, a Beretta 85B in 380 & a Walther PPKS (Ranger Arms). I do have a CZ75 compact & a S&W 6906 in 9mm, bigger & larger capacity. Different choices for different days.

frankmako
May 1, 2012, 10:57 PM
i got a p64 and it is a hand full. ammo is higher than 9mm and 380. but the gun was cheap. built like a tank,

280shooter
May 2, 2012, 01:32 AM
I would have to have one.. A friend and I went to a gun show about 6 years ago.Maybe less..And as we walked around. we came across lots of guys selling these Mac's. they were all greased up in boxes..I asked what are these.? not many knew what they were selling. the did come with a holster. cleaning kit. 2 clips. these looked new,, I picked one up.and handed it to my buddie..what do you think.. he said not bad. but what the hell are they,, beats me,,,they were 165 bucks or about depending what vender you asked, some had red stars on the grips. some didnt,,,I already had a Feg,r61 in 380. but We didnt pick any up.. and I have to say we been kicking our selfs in the ass for not picking one up.These hand guns werent really what you would call a conceal wepons,since they came with holsters.. they arent light..
They are what they are,, a service side arm..My 2 cents,,

Pilot
May 2, 2012, 09:46 AM
These hand guns werent really what you would call a conceal wepons,since they came with holsters.. they arent light..
They are what they are,, a service side arm..My 2 cents,,


I agree that it is a service sidearm, but it is also very concealable. I am sure many were used by Russian cops, and KGB who carried them concealed.

Many people conceal full size 1911's, and other larger pistols, so the Mak is comparitively easy to conceal. A decent belt, and holster works wonders, but even with my regular belt, and cheap Uncle Mike's nylon holster, my Mak carries well.

JustinJ
May 2, 2012, 06:42 PM
I got one for the GF. The weight, round and grip make it much more comfortable to shoot for her than the PF9 i had or the LC9 i have. I'd prefer she go with 9 but with this she is willing to practice more.

280shooter
May 2, 2012, 07:29 PM
maybe I should have said its not a so called pants pocket type hand gun.
hell you can hide a mac10 if you so want,under a coat, but when I think of a hide out I think light weight ,,a hand gun you can stick in your pant pocket where you dont need suspenders to hold your pants up///

thats all i meant,,

jon_in_wv
May 2, 2012, 08:02 PM
The Makarov is much smaller than a 1911 and its presence inside the waistband is way smaller than a lot of pistols. My 3913 can't squeeze in a Makarov holster. In fact my Bodyguard 380 won't fit in my Makarov holster. The Mak is a little havy but its lighter than a lot of other CCW pistols. It works great for concealed carry if you ask me.

harmon rabb
May 2, 2012, 09:48 PM
9 Mak costs about double that of 9mm, and half again as much as .380 where I live. If you reload, the RCBS dies cost over $60 which is twice as much as 9mm or .380. In over four years of picking up brass at the local range I've picked up maybe a handful of 9 Maks as compared to thousands of 9mm and .380. That, in turn, means that if I wanted to reload I'm going to also have to buy brass and can't rely on the local range for a supply. Looks like a losing proposition to me, which is why I sold mine.

If you order online, 9mm mak is the cheapest centerfire round. A good $2-$3 cheaper than regular 9mm per box... and you can cheaply and easily cut 9mm luger brass down to work for a 9mm mak, lots of guys do it. ;)

The reason people are choosing the single stack 9's is that they're MUCH lighter than a Mak. Maks may be pretty compact, but they're sure as heck not light. They are dead reliable though. I'd trust a Mak to work properly in poor conditions any day of the week over most of the current single stack 9's.

I don't typically carry one of my Mak's, but I would absolutely not feel like I was making a bad choice to carry one. If that was all I had, or all I could afford, I'd carry it with confidence.

I own.. 5 Maks... None of them have EVER malfunctioned. I even decided to not give one a fair shot -- got it "new" to me, didn't clean it, took it to the range with a mixed bag of Mak mags I'd just purchased online and had never used before (some of which seemed to have much stronger springs than others), tried some crappy steel cases ammo as well as some jhp's... damn thing performed 100%. Made my cm9 (new that that time), cleaned and oiled properly, look rather bad.

weregunner
May 3, 2012, 05:42 PM
Nothing wrong with the SIG P6/225 or the mini 9x19 pistols that have double recoil springs to soak up recoil.

The S&W 3913/908 clan are classics.

I own two Makarovs, but am going over to the 9x19 single stack pistols for CCW carry.

For ammo there is this.

www.ammoseek.com

Most of the online stores are there. Not all.
www.ammoengine.com
www.georgia-arms.com
www.sportsmansguide.com
www.venturamunitions.com
www.cabelas.com
www.gandermountain.com

Sox
May 3, 2012, 08:05 PM
Don't lose sleep averageman, While a good pistol you mention, it is date, heavy and clunky and underpowered compared to todays skinny guns. If money is your only issue fine.

Vonderek
May 3, 2012, 08:10 PM
The defunct Astra A75 fits my hand like a glove. Parts are hard to come by but springs and mags are still available if you look. The DA trigger is not the greatest but it was my first 9mm and is still a viable SD handgun. Every once in a while I see them for sale and they are a very nice handgun, especially in the lightweight version.

jon_in_wv
May 4, 2012, 05:38 AM
If you ever want to part with that A75 let me know!

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