Semi Auto for IWB/OWB carry. Down to two I like...


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robinkevin
April 11, 2012, 10:55 AM
Hey yall it's been awhile but back to look for a pistol to replace my P3AT. I like the P3AT but really want to go up to 9mm and the thing is just too small for me, I find my finger running out of bending room before the trigger is all the way back... Anyhow I been looking and I have two pistol in my price range that I have held and both seem to fit my hand pretty well. I admit these two pistols have a lot of differences but here it is.

I am looking at a Smith and Wesson Sigma 9mm or a Kahr CW9. So first one is double stack and the other is single stack. One has a safety action trigger break the other is standard solid DAO trigger. Personally I like the full size Sigma better than the Kahr, mainly because the extra rounds and the heavier trigger (I am old fashion and like a heavier trigger on DAO guns for safety), not to mention it being full size should shoot better. The Kahr on the other hand seems like it would be A LOT easier to conceal, I like how thin it is for IWB carry and the trigger though not very heavy is still long enough that I believe it to be safe so long as it is handle correctly.

So here is where yall come in. Is there anything I am missing? Would the Kahr be that much easier to conceal? The sigma seems close in size to my old XD and that thing was very hard to conceal. I have learn to love small pistol with the P3AT as it is so easy to have on person at all times, of course is the Kahr is bigger but I need something that fits my hand...

Thank you for any input you can offer.

EDIT: Btw I am 6'3" and right at 200lbs. So slim, tall, with just a tad of a gut from being married for 5 years now, happens to the best of us.

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allaroundhunter
April 11, 2012, 02:23 PM
Is there anything I am missing?

Yup.....you should skip the Sigma and put an M&P in its place.

However, if you had a hard time concealing your XD, then neither the Sigma or the M&P would be a good choice. But a good holster can do a lot more for concealment if you haven't given one a try.

Yes, the CW9 would be much easier to conceal....

robinkevin
April 11, 2012, 02:34 PM
M&P isn't in a poor working boy's budget.

That's kinda what I am thinking... I have put on a few pounds since I had my XD but still don't think I could conceal it that well... But then again I read that the grip length makes a larger difference than the thickness, but I really want the full grip so it might be something I just have to work around. Was thinking maybe even I did go with the Sigma a holster such as a Kholster would help with concealment. (Used a normal pancake with the XD).

allaroundhunter
April 11, 2012, 02:38 PM
But then again I read that the grip length makes a larger difference than the thickness

I notice that width makes a larger difference for comfort than grip length.

Consider a holster such as a Crossbreed Supertuck or a Comptac Minotaur (they aren't "cheap", but if you continually buy cheap holsters trying to find one, you will end up spending more money than if you just paid for quality in the first place). They are holsters that will help you to conceal a full-size pistol more easily than you probably think is possible.

robinkevin
April 11, 2012, 03:30 PM
Kholster is like a supertuck just cost less as it's not brand name. Usually $60 and during certain times of the year he does sales and drops it down to $50... http://kholster.com/Holsters.htm I can't remember if it was this forum or another that I had learn of them from but apparently very good people to work with.

The holster I had for my XD was a Blackhawk 3 Slot Pancake. It was decent but still didn't conceal that well unless wearing a jacket or something to cover it. Seems to me the thickness would make a difference... At the same time I hear of a lot of people concealing G19s and they are very close in size to the Sigma.

allaroundhunter
April 11, 2012, 03:36 PM
At the same time I hear of a lot of people concealing G19s and they are very close in size to the Sigma.

I conceal my M&P9 FS and Glock 19. Neither are much of a problem, but if I were looking to go smaller than an XD I would go with the Kahr over the Sigma.

I am actually waiting to see how the Sig P938 does after some T&E and thinking about adding it to the CC lineup.

needmorecowbell
April 11, 2012, 09:53 PM
I'd go with the Kahr over the Sigma. If you're wanting something a bit larger than the Lagrange but similar price you should look at Ruger SR9c.

robinkevin
April 12, 2012, 08:28 AM
Ruger SR9c is a fine pistol but then that's another $100 over the Sigma and still just as thick. I have shot the Sigma and fine it to be a nice weapon, people make too much of the trigger. Personally I would like to afford a M&P9c but there just isn't no way. If I get the Sigma I can spend $50-$70 on a good holster and still be in my budget, the Kahr will leave a little less room for a nice holster but think with the size of the Kahr a simple Uncle Mike IWB holster would work just fine.

ForumSurfer
April 12, 2012, 08:48 AM
I had a cw9 with 500 trouble-free rounds through it. It even fed the evil Tula ammo just fine. It digested all of my defensive ammo, also. At around 300 bucks for a new one plus good factory support...it is a bargain in my book. You want get any ohhhhs and ahhhs over it, but mine ran like a clock before I sold it.

BossHogg
April 12, 2012, 10:47 AM
When I feel like carrying the hi-cap 9mm Sigma I use a Kholster with it and they work together very well. Just takes a little time finding the best adjustment on the holster.

If you order from Jimmy at Kholster use my rebate code # 12-2498 in the special instructions field during check out and get a 10% rebate when they ship the holster, or so he say's. Don't hurt to try.:rolleyes:

smalls
April 12, 2012, 10:47 AM
If you don't mind the trigger, get the Sigma. It's a fine carry weapon. It's reliable, and already ugly, so you won't mind beating it up.

robinkevin
April 12, 2012, 11:37 AM
BossHogg thanks for the info I will do so as I plan on getting a kholster for either of the pistols that I get.

It looks like the Sigma is going to be an underdog in this thread but still really giving it a lot of thought. Regardless of which one I get I actually like both so much that I'll more than likely end up with both in the long run that way I have both a single and double stack in 9mm to go with whatever I am wearing. Still having a hard time deciding on which I want first... It will be a year or two before I would be able to get the other so I want to choose wisely.

Then again here in a few S&W is suppose to release it's newest pistol which many say is going to be a single stack which COULD depending on what it is be an option as well, who knows...

allaroundhunter
April 12, 2012, 12:27 PM
Then again here in a few S&W is suppose to release it's newest pistol which many say is going to be a single stack which COULD depending on what it is be an option as well, who knows...

Just a heads up, *if* it is released, I would expect the price tag to be at least what M&Ps are already going for.

robinkevin
April 12, 2012, 01:00 PM
I was thinking that as well but you never know. They did release it today at noon, $449 MSRP, which means what around $400 retail? That is if they can keep up with demand. A little over my budget as with the ruger... But I am not too interested due to the short grip would need a different magazine for it to be comfortable for myself...

Still leaning towards Kahr but still considering the Sigma...

allaroundhunter
April 12, 2012, 01:06 PM
I was thinking that as well but you never know. They did release it today at noon, $449 MSRP, which means what around $400 retail? That is if they can keep up with demand. A little over my budget as with the ruger... But I am not too interested due to the short grip would need a different magazine for it to be comfortable for myself...

I just saw that and was trying to find the thread to mention that haha. So, a little cheaper compared to the other M&P lineup.

Also, this (http://gunnuts.net/2012/04/12/smith-wesson-mp-shield-9mm-review/) was posted on another thread and the author (tester) was able to get a full firing grip with the flush fitting magazine.


And out of curiosity, what price are you looking at getting the Kahr for?

MCgunner
April 12, 2012, 01:12 PM
Didn't vote. Don't really prefer either. I'm a Kel Tec guy. I like Rugers, too.

m2steven
April 12, 2012, 01:23 PM
I think at 6'3" you can probably conceal a Sigma pretty well. I'm 5'7" on the other hand and I can get away with comfortably concealing my Glock 36 and my PM9 (which is a fantastic pistol).

I agree with you about the trigger pull and safety. It's not easy to try to pull your pistol from a pocket or holster and resist the temptation to try to get your finger in the trigger guard. When you do that you tend to exert upward pressure on the trigger - not good.

The Sigma is a good, solid pistol with a fine reputation. There are simple things you can do to improve the trigger pull if you want to. It really is quite a difficult pull, but that's probably by design.

One thing you could consider is a good 380 calibur pistol loaded with Buffalo Bore or Corbon high pressure ammo. That combo produces impact pressure about like a 38 special and is really easy to carry. Most folks knock a 380 as being marginal, but if you shot some Buffalo Bore in that caliber - you'd change your mind.

The problem with the Kahr 9mm mini pistols is that they lend themselves to carrying in a pants pocket and if you don't wear loose pants - they are quite thick and difficult to retrieve from a tight pocket. They feel pretty much the same as a Sigma sized pistol in many IWB holsters too but obviously not quite as tall. If you're not large - an IWB carry is going to eventually irritate you in some fashion.

Get the Sigma if you like it. Both it and the Kahr are very reliable. I personally love the Kahr trigger as it doesn't pull my barrel off target.

Skylerbone
April 12, 2012, 01:47 PM
M&P 9c and Kahr CW9. As always, your decision.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=134622&d=1295665205

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=134621&d=1295665205

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=134623&d=1295665227

robinkevin
April 12, 2012, 02:36 PM
With that review I want to handle the Shield now even if it is a little above my price range if it felt good in the hand and could get it around $400 it would be worth saving up the extra hundred perhaps.

Thanks for the pictures, that puts it into perspective. I think it's only .300 of and inch difference but can see how it could make a big difference, especially when looking at those pictures. Do you carry both of these? If so how much of a difference does the thickness make in your opinion?

Skylerbone
April 12, 2012, 05:51 PM
The Smith is my wander about and nightstand most of the time and the Kahr was a present to my dad so he had no more excuses not to have one with him. He's old enough that the Kahr is concealable with wardrobe choices ranging from slacks to a waistpack designed for concealment.

After spending a few days poking around under the hood and marveling at the light weight I can say the Kahr is worth the asking price and more. The next one I buy will be staying with me.

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