Virginia Tech publishes final ‘Weapons on Campus’ regulation


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JohnPierce
April 11, 2012, 02:55 PM
In the April 9, 2012 edition of the Virginia Register, the final Virginia Tech ‘Weapons on Campus’ regulation was published and now has the force and effect of law.

The regulation, which is codified at 8VAC105-20-10 through 8VAC105-20-40, addresses the “carrying, maintaining, or storing” of both “firearms” and “weapons.”

Excerpt ... Read more (http://monachuslex.com/?p=410)

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JohnPierce
April 11, 2012, 02:56 PM
Are you a female student taking a night class at Virginia Tech? Worried about that long walk to the car? Want to carry pepper spray just in case? Do it and get expelled! :(

rajb123
April 11, 2012, 02:59 PM
It is not OK to bring two fists to a gun fight since you will loose every time.

Neverwinter
April 11, 2012, 03:01 PM
Are you a female student taking a night class at Virginia Tech? Worried about that long walk to the car? Want to carry pepper spray just in case? Do it and get expelled! :(
Many campuses have nightwalk programs which alleviate that problem.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

JohnPierce
April 11, 2012, 03:07 PM
Many campuses have nightwalk programs which alleviate that problem.

Sent using Tapatalk 2
True. But my point was that this regulation is dangerously over-broad and makes no exception for even the most basic self-defense.

Also, at the campus where I attend law school, the Night Escort program will only take you to the edge of campus but parking overflow often forces students to park blocks away in not-so-nice neighborhoods. :(

HOOfan_1
April 11, 2012, 03:19 PM
True. But my point was that this regulation is dangerously over-broad

No, it is plain idiotic and knee jerk.

steelerdude99
April 11, 2012, 05:53 PM
No, it is plain idiotic and knee jerk.

It does an excellent job of protecting the University from lawsuits. An individual's safety is irrelevant.

chuck

redstategunnut
April 11, 2012, 08:35 PM
If only they had this regulation in place before the massacre....

HOOfan_1
April 11, 2012, 08:39 PM
They ought to call it the "fox in the hen house" regulation

bushmaster1313
April 11, 2012, 09:40 PM
First rule of gunfighting:
Bring a gun.

JohnBT
April 11, 2012, 10:24 PM
Culpable? That's nonsense. You can repeat that silliness until you're blue in the face and it won't make it true.

When I was there some folks had guns in the dorms, some guys had throwing axes (you know, the forestry types) and so forth. I guess times change.

John
Class of '72

hso
April 11, 2012, 11:01 PM
alleviate that problem.

Try to alleviate the problem, but staffing and scheduling issues leave many people without that sort of support. Then there's the question about being dependent upon a bureaucracy for your safety. No, escort services are an attempt to address violence on campus, but they're only partially effective.

Sam1911
April 12, 2012, 08:51 AM
[Ahem...let's keep it on topic and polite, please.]

Old Fuff
April 12, 2012, 12:20 PM
As usual, an ivory tower administration believe that safety lies in published rules and regulations (which apparently also have the force of law) that they cannot possibly enforce against a person who has absolutely no respect for them, and intends to intentionally violate each and every one while engaged in a deliberate act of individual or mass killing.

In the face of this obvious truth they offer the student population, as well as others, no effective way to protect themselves against a criminal attack - lethal or otherwise.

These administrators live in a dream world of their own making, and force others to possibly pay the ultimate price because of they're incompetence.

And no one stands up to point out that the emperor isn’t wearing any clothes.

Elkins45
April 12, 2012, 12:35 PM
Wasn't there already a rule that said you can't shoot 30+ people?

Just checking.

Mike OTDP
April 12, 2012, 01:10 PM
I always detested the administration at that school - and I went there 1980-1985. They could never manage to think of the student body as anything other than a group of irresponsible teenyboppers.

Just never mind the students in their mid-20s, the students attending on GI Bill benefits, and the graduate students. None of whom fell into the category of irresponsible teenager.

brickeyee
April 12, 2012, 01:53 PM
These administrators live in a dream world of their own making, and force others to possibly pay the ultimate price because of they're incompetence.

It is not referred to as an 'ivory tower' for nothing.

These are the same folks that think court orders can stop bullets.

I stopped donating after the slaughter, and now have no reason to ever start again.

PigButtons
April 12, 2012, 10:31 PM
When other colleges tried this kind of institutionalized stupidity their State Legislators stepped in and passed a law specifically thwarting the move by the college staff. Oregon, that bastion of hippies, PETA, and all things liberal, made the move last year sometime. If they can do it, why can't Virginia law makers get off their duff and put a stop to disarming adult CCW permitted students that want to protect themselves.

Just asking the question.

razorback2003
April 12, 2012, 11:01 PM
There is nothing illegal about carrying on campus in VA. It is against policy. I wouldn't let it keep me from carrying.

NavyLCDR
April 12, 2012, 11:14 PM
In the April 9, 2012 edition of the Virginia Register, the final Virginia Tech ‘Weapons on Campus’ regulation was published and now has the force and effect of law.

There is nothing illegal about carrying on campus in VA. It is against policy. I wouldn't let it keep me from carrying.

Correct. I know JohnPierce was just quoting the article. The prohibition of firearms on the campus does NOT have the effect of law. It is only school policy.

SK2344
April 12, 2012, 11:34 PM
Let us just imagine if only one person was armed during that massacre when that mutant entered one of those rooms and he fired back to stop the threat and kill the mutant. I wonder if they would have expelled him or even prosecuted him for an Illegal firearm on campus .........I just Wonder!

NavyLCDR
April 12, 2012, 11:36 PM
Navy,your opinion on George Mason and VCU? State Law or just school?

Politics. A state's administrative code is just that..... administrative. It's like firearms on private property....carrying a firearm against an administrative code does not have a criminal penalty associated with it - only expulsion from the university as a student or removal from the campus and trespassing if you don't leave.

Shoobee
April 13, 2012, 12:36 AM
I went to a private university that thugs could not afford to get into.

For public colleges and universities, I can see where this would be a problem though.

Even so, it seems to me that college kids are not mature enough to carry firearms.

The brain is not fully developed until age 25. And that's way past college daze.

Pepper sprays and mace sprays always seem appropriate however, for all students, especially for the girls.

gc70
April 13, 2012, 12:39 AM
Even so, it seems to me that college kids are not mature enough to carry firearms.
The brain is not fully developed until age 25.

Did your college have an age limit of 24 for students.

Shoobee
April 13, 2012, 12:41 AM
Nobody at my university would have dreamed of bringing a weapon onto campus.

No reason too.

Weapons stayed at home, for the firearms enthusiasts.

Twmaster
April 13, 2012, 01:05 AM
Lucky you didn't have Cho as a fellow student ....

Sam1911
April 13, 2012, 07:55 AM
I went to a private university that thugs could not afford to get into.So the high fences and armed guards at the gates kept the bad guys out? So there were NO rapes, assaults, or homicides on/around your college campus? Really? Yes, of course there were.

As James Thurber once wrote, "He who goes unarmed in paradise had better be sure that's where he is." You WEREN'T.

Even so, it seems to me that college kids are not mature enough to carry firearms.
The brain is not fully developed until age 25. And that's way past college daze.And yet, every state that does not prohibit concealed carry will issue a permit to those over 21, and some at 18. But, I guess if you're in college maybe you don't have/deserve the same rights? :scrutiny:

Pepper sprays and mace sprays always seem appropriate however, for all students, especially for the girls. Californian and sexist at the same time? I thought that was against the law! :rolleyes:

Nobody at my university would have dreamed of bringing a weapon onto campus.Hee hee...you think? So you didn't see a weapon on campus during your years there. I promise you they WERE there as folks (good ones and bad ones, too) not only "dreamed of" bringing weapons on campus, but went ahead and did it!

tyeo098
April 13, 2012, 10:10 AM
George Mason U and VCU appear to be exceptions. With Progressives ,there are always exceptions. :rolleyes: See Handgun Law.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf
But thats in the buildings. Anywhere on campus, outside is fair game.

Possession or carrying of any weapon by any person, except a police officer, is prohibited on university
property in academic buildings, administrative office buildings, student residence buildings, dining facilities,
or while attending sporting, entertainment or educational events.

NavyLCDR
April 13, 2012, 11:10 AM
I went to a private university that thugs could not afford to get into.

For public colleges and universities, I can see where this would be a problem though.

Even so, it seems to me that college kids are not mature enough to carry firearms.

The brain is not fully developed until age 25. And that's way past college daze.

Pepper sprays and mace sprays always seem appropriate however, for all students, especially for the girls.

Nobody at my university would have dreamed of bringing a weapon onto campus.

No reason too.

Weapons stayed at home, for the firearms enthusiasts.

I've heard it all now! :D

Heck, Johnny....I've heard all that before.... just not on a PRO-gun forum. :scrutiny:

JohnBT
April 13, 2012, 12:09 PM
"I went to a private university that thugs could not afford to get into."

Maybe not when you attended, but now many of the top schools in the country provide 100% financial aid to those who can't afford it. The eight Ivy League schools will cover everything in many cases. Here's Harvard's policy.

"The Harvard Financial Aid Initiative, which was launched in early 2004, exempts families with annual incomes below $60,000 from having to contribute anything to a child's Harvard education. "

Old Fuff
April 13, 2012, 12:30 PM
So Shoobee said...

Even so, it seems to me that college kids are not mature enough to carry firearms.

Really? Well next door to California in Arizona anyone who is 18 or older can own and carry handguns, unless they are a prohibited person.

So far that doesn't include on college campuses, but we are working on that.

I suppose you'd expect that all of those immature teens and early twenty's young folks would be shooting up a storm and blood would be running in the streets. After all, according to you their brains aren't fully developed yet.

Truth is, nothing of the sort is going on. Our law enforcement experience doesn't show any extraordinary problem with those in this age group, regardless if they are in college or not.

So I have to presume that those in the 18 to 21 year old age group in Arizona must be much more mature then those that live west of us where you are.

Ya' think? :uhoh:

Elkins45
April 13, 2012, 12:31 PM
Poor does not equal thug. Rapists come from high-wage families too.

JohnPierce
April 14, 2012, 09:49 AM
George Mason U and VCU appear to be exceptions. With Progressives ,there are always exceptions. :rolleyes: See Handgun Law.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf
Read my article more closely. The reason that GMU and VCU were exceptions is because they promulgated REGULATIONS (which in VA have the force and effect of law). The whole point of the article was that, after AG Cuccinelli's opinion that UVA's POLICY was trumped by VA law whereas GMUs regulation was not, there have been over half-a-dozen REGULATIONS promulgated. I list them all in the article. :(

NavyLCDR
April 14, 2012, 11:06 AM
Read my article more closely. The reason that GMU and VCU were exceptions is because they promulgated REGULATIONS (which in VA have the force and effect of law).

Can I ask what are the criminal punishments associated with violating these regulations? Fines and/or jail sentences possible?

JohnPierce
April 14, 2012, 11:36 AM
Can I ask what are the criminal punishments associated with violating these regulations? Fines and/or jail sentences possible?
Generally such regulations give rise to the possibility of a criminal trespassing charge.

jad0110
April 14, 2012, 12:28 PM
Even so, it seems to me that college kids are not mature enough to carry firearms.
The brain is not fully developed until age 25. And that's way past college daze.


How old do you think the typical rifleman or machine gunner in the Army or USMC is? Do you believe we need to increase the minimum age of enlistment to 26? Same for LEOs? Heck, some of those guys are trusted with multimillion dollar aircraft, and most do just fine.

I went to a private university that thugs could not afford to get into.


So you actually have to be enrolled in a university before you can go on a shooting rampage? Who would of thunk it? :D

NG VI
April 14, 2012, 01:39 PM
Even so, it seems to me that college kids are not mature enough to carry firearms.

The brain is not fully developed until age 25. And that's way past college daze.

Pepper sprays and mace sprays always seem appropriate however, for all students, especially for the girls.


Too bad pepper spray is defined as a weapon and possession of it is treated the same as possession of any other weapon. Meaning expulsion.

Is it reasonable to expel or even pursue some charge or other against students found carrying pepper spray?

I don't think it is. I don't think it's reasonable to penalize people like that. It seems that many people equate campus bans with bans from possessing weapons on board commercial planes. That doesn't work at all, because there is no campus in America that travels hundreds of miles an hour, with a closed population, isolated from every other human by miles of open air, and who have all been thoroughly scanned and screened and searched ahead of time.

Colleges do not exist in a (practical) vacuum, unlike airliners. Fighting to restrict your student's ability to successfully drive off or defeat an attack is wrong. That's the aspect many don't seem to get about 'weapons' on campus. There are large groups of people actively fighting to make absolutely sure that their students are held to TSA standards in regards to weapons, regardless of the truth that those students are not temporarily inside of a secure facility full of likewise surveilled and screened people.

There's no question about why a responsible person might want to have a firearm or other weapon on their person or in their home, in general or on campus only, we know why it's a good idea to be capable defending your life from an otherwise superior threat. The real question is, what is objectively gained by preventing responsible adults from having the tools to survive a life threatening attack?

NG VI
April 14, 2012, 01:51 PM
Quote:
I went to a private university that thugs could not afford to get into.

So the high fences and armed guards at the gates kept the bad guys out? So there were NO rapes, assaults, or homicides on/around your college campus? Really? Yes, of course there were.

As James Thurber once wrote, "He who goes unarmed in paradise had better be sure that's where he is." You WEREN'T.



The image I came up with was of a walled-off campus with turnstiles onto the street that scan your prior year tax returns and do a credit report on you before letting you in.

NavyLCDR
April 14, 2012, 10:23 PM
So, the claim is made that these regulations have the force of law. However, if a person is carrying in violation of these regulations, no citation can be issued because there is no statute violated and no criminal punishment specified for violation. In other words, the university can ask the person to leave campus because of their gun, and if they don't, they can be cited for trespass. The police have no means to cite the person for carrying the gun only, because they are not violating an actual statute, only a college regulation.

To me, when something "has the force of law" it means that the police can arrest you or issue you a citation for the act of violating the prohibition itself.

Hacker15E
April 14, 2012, 10:34 PM
If only they'd had this policy on the books in 2007 -- would have solved....well, absolutely nothing.

brickeyee
April 16, 2012, 11:33 AM
If only they'd had this policy on the books in 2007 -- would have solved....well, absolutely nothing.

But now they have 'Done something.' :banghead:

JohnBT
April 16, 2012, 07:56 PM
And it only took them FIVE YEARS.

John
Class of '72

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