[Josey]

I had a STRANGE idea! What if Taurus and S&W and Ruger took their five (or more) shot small revolvers that use 9MM and upped the ante? 45 GAP in a J frame sized revolver seems possible. The moon clips already exist for 9MM. The manufactuerers already have 45 barrels. I would think that 357 Magnum nonfluted cylinders could be cut to 45 GAP chambering easily enough. Am I INSANE!?

[Jim March]

Not enough metal in the cylinder. 40S&W would be iffy.

[SMLE]

Yep, You're insane! :neener:

It would have to be a K or L frame size at least. To me though, 45 GAP just seems like an answer to a question nobody was asking.

[c_yeager]

Even in a medium frame revolver i dont see the GAP cartridge being all that better than the old ACP. The width of a revolver is what makes them hard to carry. And since GAP is the same diameter you wont save anything in that regard. ANd the case length isnt different enough to make a huge difference. For example most people cant really tell the difference between a .38spec cylinder and a .357mag cylinder just by looking at it.

[Nightcrawler]

.45GAP might actually require thicker cylinder walls, since it's higher pressure.

Remember, six shots of .45 Caliber requires an N-frame size. Five shots and you're looking at L-frame size. (Whereas you can get seven shots of .357 in an L-frame.)

[Andrew Wyatt]

you can't fit .45 in an L frame. not enough barrel shank.

[BluesBear]

The .45acp cartridge is quite a bit shorter than the .38 special cartridge.
Therefore why even consider the .45gap (the G is pronounced "kr") ?
The .45acp can do anything the .45gap can and do it in a cylinder that is short enough for concealment.

A concealable sized 5 shot revolver would be great. But instead of worrying about moon clips why not just repopularize the .45 Auto Rim cartridge? Nice heavy Keith style bullets, with a nice heavy roll crimp would allow you to reach out and THUMP someone.

A 5 shot HKS speedloader doen't have much more bulk that a moon clip and the small knob gives you something to grab. A Safariland type I speedloader is almost as compact as a moon clip.

Too bad so many people have forgotten the good ol' .45 Auto Rim. It's a very versatile cartridge.

[MrPink]

I'm not advocating the 45GAP, I like the 45ACP too much. But in revolvers, I do like moonclips over speedloaders anyday. Much faster and less of a finesse move. I had my 629 Mountain Gun machined for moonclips, so I like the concept even for rimmed cartridges.

[surfinUSA]

Moon clips are great for competition where a bent or out of spec clip isn't anymore serious than a lost match. As far as the 45 GAP goes its rebated rim may not work with the moon clips and proper alignment of the rounds with the chambers. As was already pointed out, the diameter of both rounds is the same so there is really nothing to be gained over the standard ACP round.

But I believe that the real hinderance is that the forcing cone is way too thin to accomidate a 45 caliber rounds use on the existing five shot snubbie's frame size.

[Sean Smith]

You'd need to design a proprietary frame to do it, but I bet you could make a 5 shot snubby in .45 ACP on a considerably smaller frame than a L frame, if not smaller than a K-frame in most dimensions.

[Brian Williams]

The Taurus Trackers are just a little smaller than a K frame. I had a 460 Tracker in 45 colt and the frame and grip were smaller than a S&W 66 I had. The concept of a 5 shot concealable revolver in a K frame is around in Taurus Tracker with 2, 4, 6.5 in barrels and in 45 colt and 45 acp. The ACP versions have the "new" Stellar clip. S&W also have the 696 and the 296, 44 spec L frames, the question is could the L frame be punched out to the .452 dia. vs .429 for the spec.

[SMLE]

you can't fit .45 in an L frame. not enough barrel shank. Hmmm, I just got to shoot an L frame 44 special and 44 spec. is longer than .45 ACP. Perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean by "barrel shank"?

[Majic]

45 GAP in a J frame sized revolver seems possible.
Probably not enough metal in the frame for the barrel to fit. If it does then the forcing cone would be paper thin.

[Josey]

Hmmmm, what about a Colt Python snubbie then? The frame is large enough. A 2" barrel and a rounded butt with Hi-Viz sights.

[Majic]

:eek: How could you think such a thought Josey? Hi-viz sights on a Python and round butted? That could be considered blasphemy.
Here's the required bar of soap for speaking such things.

[BluesBear]

SMLE,

The barrel shank has to be small enough to be able to be screwed into the frame, yet be strong enough to contain the forces exerted by the bullet, and its accompanying gasses, rushing out of the cylinder and slamming into the forcing cone.

If the barrel is to thin the stresses will eventually cause it to fail.
If you make the barrel bigger and the frame becomes too thin to adequately support it, then the frame can fail.

It's a fragile balance in the smaller frames.

[SMLE]

Thanks Bluesbear. So it's a matter of diameter, not length.

Hmmm, that could also be applied to other subjects not germaine to this forum. :evil:

[BluesBear]

Yes SMLE,

There are many "Fragile Balances" in the world.

[c_yeager]

A five shot snuppy in .45acp (or GAP if you MUST) could be done. It wouldnt necessarily be a "J" or "K" frame though. It would have to be purpose build, which isnt really a big deal. I bet there would even be a market for it. How about the sp101 frame though? It seems that the cylinder is a tad thicker and .45acp is pretty low pressure. any thoughts?

[Josey]

That was my line of thought. The SP-101 can handle 9MM and 357 Magnum pressures. The 45 GAP is below even 9MM pressures. I have seen 357 Magnums used as conversions to 44 Specials. These were .429 or varied to .431. A .452 diameter round does reduce the forcing cone to a thin piece of metal. IIRC, the forcing cones were problems though in S&W 22 rimfire Ladysmiths around the turn of the century. We have better metals today though. The entire pistol could be made of scandium. There could even be dual cylinders a la 45 Long Colt with moonclips for 45 ACP and a second cylinder for 45 GAP. Three calibers in one platform.

[seeker_two]

Because of the cylinder diameter & barrel shank, you'd need a frame size b/t an L-frame & N-frame to safely do a .45 caliber 5-shooter. Just look at the cylinder walls on a 696...:eek:

Taurus's Trackers do this for their .45's, and I imagine you could do the same w/ a Ruger GP-100. But either way you end up w/ thin cylinder walls that limit the type of ammo you can use. No hot-roddin' allowed...:uhoh:

Instead of a .45ACP snubby, I'd like to see the ammo companies improve the SD ammo choices for the .44SPL and the .41MAG to duplicate .45ACP ballistics. Heck, I'd like to see the .41 Special go mainstream (are you listening, Taurus/Ruger?...:banghead: )