When some manufacturers were registering unproduced serials pre-Hughes


PDA






Saakee
April 12, 2012, 01:51 AM
How much did this cost or was there no cost to do so?

If I've gotten that Q wrong, here's my example.

Company A, in 1986 before the amendment passed through, decides to register a number of serials, linked to automatic AR-15s. Was there a charge per serial?

Also, did they have to specify what kind of NFA weapon that serial was or could they just have serials 00000001-99999999 registered then build whatever they wanted off that serial (e.g., 00550087 might be a 4burst AR-15 while 11249465 is a full auto AR-15) post Hughes Ban?

If you enjoyed reading about "When some manufacturers were registering unproduced serials pre-Hughes" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Telekinesis
April 12, 2012, 02:19 AM
The cost depends on who was making the weapon. If it was an individual, they would need to register the weapon and pay the $200 tax. If it was a manufacturing FFL/SOT, the SOT is paid in place of the tax. If it was an individual, it would be a charge for each registration form, which in effect is each serial number.

As far as specifying the weapon, they had to completely fill out the registration form. That means SN, manufacturer, caliber, type of NFA weapon etc. For instance, you can't register a piece of serialized muffler tubing as a suppressor and then build a Sten off of it (or vice versa), and you can't register a SN for a Mac-11 and have it show up on a BAR. However, the form doesn't have a field for the fire modes of the weapon, so it wouldn't matter if the gun fired in burst or FA. For the most part, it is the receiver that is registered (lets just set aside registered sears for a second) so the internals could be repaired and replaced (or swapped out with a different fire control group) without consequence.

Saakee
April 12, 2012, 05:10 AM
Excellent, that was what i was looking for. In this story i'm working on, character's father registered a number of serials for receivers (Machine shop owner doing runs for large scale black rifle mannies/FFL 7/gunshop owner) and i couldn't find the info easily via google.

Trebor
April 12, 2012, 10:24 AM
My understanding is that they were NOT allowed to "register serials" without actually producing the receiver. There was no registration of just a serial number. The registration was for a physical object that actually had to exist at the time the papers were filed.

If all they had to do was register numbers there'd be more MG's now as some companies really ramped up production right before the deadline to make more receivers. They would have made even more if it was just a matter of registering the paperwork and actually making the receivers later.

RhinoDefense
April 12, 2012, 11:10 AM
As soon as the auto sear pin on an M16/AR15 receiver is drilled, it's a machine gun. What was common was take ready made receivers, drill the sear pin hole, then Form 2 it. This created registered receivers and they could then build the weapon from there leaving the OAL section blank.

For suppressors, the tube is considered the receiver and this part needs the engraving of the manufacturer's information. You can register as many tubes as you want and leave the caliber blank.

For fully automatic weapons, it doesn't matter if it's traditional full auto or burst fired, they are both legally a machine gun by definition and the fire mode is of no consequence thereafter.

Saakee
April 12, 2012, 01:49 PM
My understanding is that they were NOT allowed to "register serials" without actually producing the receiver. There was no registration of just a serial number. The registration was for a physical object that actually had to exist at the time the papers were filed.

If all they had to do was register numbers there'd be more MG's now as some companies really ramped up production right before the deadline to make more receivers. They would have made even more if it was just a matter of registering the paperwork and actually making the receivers later.
That makes sense.

RhinoDefense: How complete did the receiver have to be? This (http://www.cncguns.com/images/117-1718_img.jpg) complete or all extraneous metal removed?

RhinoDefense
April 12, 2012, 02:37 PM
All extraneous metal removed. It had to have a method of attaching a trigger and barrel to it for it to be a receiver. Basically what is called a bare lower or "stripped" lower like you buy to assemble your own, minus the anodizing. So fully machine the cuts, then drill the sear pin hole and at that point you back the drill bit out out of the hole, it's a machine gun.

Carl N. Brown
April 12, 2012, 02:46 PM
I heard that a number of Sten tubes had serial numbers engraved and registered on the national firearms registry in the days leading up to 19 May 1986; I believe that was also featured as a plot point in Ross' Unintended Consequences (yes, fiction even if historic fiction, but was it done?)

medalguy
April 12, 2012, 11:30 PM
Really, they were supposed to be completed receivers at the time of registration. There were more than one or two manufacturers who registered pieces of metal and later made them into various types of guns. A Sten number appearing on a BAR, as mentioned earlier, really happened more than once. It was a no-no, but it did happen.

dogrunner
April 13, 2012, 09:22 AM
I am personally aware of at least one instance immediately prior to the effective date of the Hugh's amendment wherein a number of Sten receivers, on an SOT's book, were confiscated with the statement that they were "not sufficently down the manufacturing path".

medalguy
April 13, 2012, 04:23 PM
Yup. And a few Sten receivers ended up as 1919A4 receivers too.:rolleyes:

p2000sk
April 15, 2012, 11:59 AM
Is it fact that at some point, registered MG receivers became the subject of an annual inspection by the BATFE?

medalguy
April 16, 2012, 12:06 AM
No one has ever asked to look at any of mine. Most are '68 amnesty registered guns, three are pre-86 manufactured weapons, three are pre-86 purchases.

RhinoDefense
April 16, 2012, 02:03 PM
Is it fact that at some point, registered MG receivers became the subject of an annual inspection by the BATFE?
Not to my knowledge.

Bubbles
April 16, 2012, 02:14 PM
FFL's are subject to annual ATF inspections. Non-licensees who own Title II firearms are not.

If you enjoyed reading about "When some manufacturers were registering unproduced serials pre-Hughes" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!