Berry's Plated Bullets in .357 Magnum


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ArchAngelCD
April 14, 2012, 10:48 AM
I have never loaded plated bullets before. I was at an auction and won a box of Berry's 158gr plated bullets and was wondering how tough/fragile they are? Can I use them in a .357 Magnum load with W296? If not how much pressure can they withstand?

Thanks...

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Walkalong
April 14, 2012, 10:59 AM
They probably will not take a full load of W-296. It will be on the edge of what they can take. Your gun makes a difference as well. You could always try a few, but I believe you will be better suited keeping them a bit slower with medium speed powders.

Only way to know is to try it. I truly believe you are right there on the ragged edge of what they will take loading to max with W296.

I can push the X-Treme 158 Gr SWC to almost 1300 FPS with no problems in a couple of guns, but in one I used to have, they would shoot like crap. (Serious crap) Everything looked OK, and it shot jacketed great, but it hated those plated bullets. Go figure.

4895
April 14, 2012, 11:13 AM
I treat them like a standard lead bullet but with a cleaner burn. I keep them under 1100 fps but haven't tried to really push them. I really like them with a load of 231. Very clean.

rcmodel
April 14, 2012, 11:18 AM
W-296 would not be a good choice.
See the Berry FAQ about speeds & load data to use.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.aspx?n=413765

rc

Ex
April 14, 2012, 11:21 AM
I can't speak to .357 with Berrys, but I have used them in 9mm. In said caliber using TiteGroup powder and a 124 gn bullet, I found that with 4.2 gns powder, they were key holing the paper. At 4 gns powder they did OK.

My conclusion is that they become unstable at the higher velocity.

4.0 gns is what Hodgdons recommends as max in 9mm and they "felt" like a normal round with that load. 4.2 "felt" like a +P and resulted in tumbling.

As it's been said, treat them like a cast lead and they'll be fine.

ArchAngelCD
April 14, 2012, 11:33 AM
How about 14.5gr 2400 under those 158gr Berry's bullets?

If not I'll shoot them at .38 Special +P pressures...

ColtPythonElite
April 14, 2012, 11:49 AM
I have loaded a good amount of Berry's 158's. I found the best accuracy at 1000-1100 fps. If I tried to push them any faster, my groups opened up.

joneb
April 14, 2012, 12:29 PM
I have loaded 158gr Rainier and Extreme bullets in 357 mag. I use a taper crimp, you can use a 9mm luger die crimp if you don't have one for 38/357.
I use powders that are suitable for 38spl like AA#5, HS-6, W231 ect. and load somewhere between 38spl and 357 mag. keep a eye out for bits of copper in the cylinder, forcing cone and barrel.

Walkalong
April 14, 2012, 03:31 PM
How about 14.5gr 2400 under those 158gr Berry's bullets?That might very well work. Should be in the 1200 to 1275 FPS range if I am guessing correctly. Worth a try IMO.

GLOOB
April 14, 2012, 03:34 PM
Even if you could push them to max velocity, I don't think you'd be able to get a good enough crimp on them to keep the bullets in.

I stopped using Berry's in 357 because
1. No crimp groove
2. I've had pieces of jacket spit out the cylinder gap fast enough to cut my friend's lip. Using a light crimp and 6 grains of Unique.

I'm now shooting 158 MBC Action! bullets, mostly. They seems to handle full charges of H110 just fine.

Walkalong
April 14, 2012, 03:39 PM
I taper crimp them, just for the reason you mention, they cannot take a heavy roll crimp.

greenlion
April 14, 2012, 09:42 PM
Berry's is recently making some of their 9mm and .40 bullets with a thicker plating so they can be pushed to much higher velocity. I don't think they have done the same for their .38 caliber bullets yet, but they might before long..

1911 Nut
April 14, 2012, 11:44 PM
Many plated bullets will demonstrate degraded accuracy much past 15 yards when pushed to velocities beyond 1100 FPS. I have seen it happen in 9mm, 10mm, and .44 Magnum. If you're going to push MV to the 1100 FPS number, you will be better off with a hard cast or jacketed bullet.

germ
April 15, 2012, 09:48 AM
I believe Berry's says to not exceed 1200fps. Yep, here it is (http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q10-c1-How_fast_can_I_shoot_these_bullets.aspx)
"Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities."

More from Berry's FAQ's (http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx)
"Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads. "

Walkalong
April 15, 2012, 11:10 AM
Many plated bullets will demonstrate degraded accuracy much past 15 yards when pushed to velocities beyond 1100 FPSNot my experience, and I have shot 1000's of them from many makers.

ryan3465
April 15, 2012, 12:29 PM
How about 14.5gr 2400 under those 158gr Berry's bullets?

If not I'll shoot them at .38 Special +P pressures...
With 14.5 grains of 2400 in .357 Mag you most likely will be going well over what the Berry's bullets can handle. In .357 with 158 grn lead bullets 13.5grn of 2400 is a really hot load in my .357 revolvers IMHO

greenlion
April 15, 2012, 02:05 PM
"Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities."

If you think about which bullet weights most people load, and what people usually use Berry's bullets for, Berry's bullets make a lot of sense.

If you are loading 230gr .45acp, or 180gr .40S&W, or 147gr 9mm loads at or near 1200 feet per second, you have WAY bigger problems than degraded accuracy. I've never had any problems or inferior accuracy when loading Berry's 158gr .357 caliber bullets to +P .38special velocities.

Walkalong
April 15, 2012, 09:08 PM
I am looking forward to the range report on 14.5 Grs of 2400.

blarby
April 15, 2012, 09:38 PM
Me too, walkies.

If you are loading 230gr .45acp, or 180gr .40S&W, or 147gr 9mm loads at or near 1200 feet per second

I would love a 45 acp that could handle 230 gr @ 1200 fps !

Please keep us posted, arch- I've never tried plated .... seems like a compromise to me, but there may be a sweet spot of satisfaction to be had there !

ljnowell
April 15, 2012, 09:39 PM
With 14.5 grains of 2400 in .357 Mag you most likely will be going well over what the Berry's bullets can handle. In .357 with 158 grn lead bullets 13.5grn of 2400 is a really hot load in my .357 revolvers IMHO

14.5gr of 2400 and a 158 swc is a classic load for 357 mag. Not really "hot" either. I can remember a thread here where people were asking for favorite recipe with a 158gr bullet, and the majority of the responses with 2400 were 14.5 gr.

TonyT
April 15, 2012, 10:13 PM
I never shoot plated bullets above ca 100fps and most at 900 or below.

PO2Hammer
April 15, 2012, 10:25 PM
I've never had anything but good results with plated bullets in .357 and many other calibers at speeds up to 1,275 fps.
In .357 and other revolver calibers I use a roll crimp die, but adjust it for a light crimp. In the bullets I've recovered you can see the crimp mark, but no peeling or any other problems.

chrisf8657
April 16, 2012, 04:19 AM
Berry's says to use Lead bullet data with their bullets, but I've loaded some 40 S&W's to 1200fps in a Glock 22 (beyond their maximum) and still had good accuracy and no issues. YMMV, though...

Walkalong
April 16, 2012, 07:16 AM
From Berrys web site FAQ page:
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

Ranier is the one who says to use lead data on their web site, despite the old data they published.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6195350&postcount=11
.

kludge
April 16, 2012, 12:08 PM
Not being able to put a good roll crimp on the bullet also hampers the ability to shoot true "magnum" loads.

ArchAngelCD
April 16, 2012, 12:30 PM
OK, as expected 14.5gr 2400 was too much for those bullets. I think they came apart after leaving the barrel but that wasn't the worst part, the bullet pull was. Even though I used a tapper crimp it wasn't enough so that load is out. I did however load up some 8.6gr and 9.0gr HS-6 rounds and they worked just fine. They were accurate enough and I guess they will do until I shoot of the rest of the bullets I have. (not buying more!) Sorry I didn't send any over the Chrono so I can't tell you what velocities I'm getting. The weather was bad the day I went out so I didn't bring the Chrono...

floydster
April 16, 2012, 05:17 PM
I get too much bullet movement in my 357's using Berry's plated, even with a taper crimp. Went back to cast bullets, much better and accurate.

Walkalong
April 16, 2012, 05:44 PM
Did you ever try this much taper crimp?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=106429&stc=1&d=1254418794

greenlion
April 16, 2012, 05:52 PM
Out of curiosity, why do you need to load them to .357 velocities? Are you target shooting long-range, or thinking about hunting with them?

ArchAngelCD
April 16, 2012, 08:27 PM
Out of curiosity, why do you need to load them to .357 velocities? Are you target shooting long-range, or thinking about hunting with them?
I don't need anything... If you read the OP you would know I came upon these bullets and was curious if they could be used in the .357 Magnum. I saw no reason to use them in .38 Special ammo and since they are .357" my alternative choices are limited...

Once this one box is gone that will be that.

joneb
April 17, 2012, 12:32 AM
For 158gr plated try 7.5-8.0gr of AA#5 or 5.5-6.0gr of W-231

GLOOB
April 17, 2012, 04:08 AM
Did you ever try this much taper crimp?
Nope! But I don't think anyone's gonna rush out to buy a Redding taper crimp die for $40 bucks to load one box of bullets that can't hold up to magnum velocities, anyways. :)

That sure is pretty though.

greenlion
April 17, 2012, 06:12 AM
I don't need anything... If you read the OP you would know I came upon these bullets and was curious if they could be used in the .357 Magnum. I saw no reason to use them in .38 Special ammo and since they are .357" my alternative choices are limited...

I did read the OP, and I didn't ask you where you got them. 38 special bullets ARE .357 magnum bullets. They are the same size. Most people who would load Berry's bullets in 38spl, or 357 mag, would load them at or near 38special velocity for target shooting, because that is pretty much the only use for them. That is what made me wonder why you were trying to turn them into something they were not designed for. I thought you might have a reason, but apparently not.

Walkalong
April 17, 2012, 07:28 AM
I don't think anyone's gonna rush out to buy a Redding taper crimp die for $40 bucks to load one box of bullets that can't hold up to magnum velocities, anywaysI was curious as to how much floydster was crimping his bullets, not suggesting ArchAngelCD buy a $20 crimp die. I was wondering how much taper crimp floydster had on the bullets that were still creeping forward to much to suit him.

ArchAngelCD answered his question, that Berrys bullet will not take magnum loads in his .357.

That is a Powerbond bullet in the pic, and it can take at least 1300 FPS, as I have proved that.

Hammerdown77
April 17, 2012, 08:46 AM
Archangel, one thing you could do is seat the bullet a little deeper, and roll crimp over the shoulder. That will be plenty of crimp to prevent bullet pull. You'll need to back down your charge and work up, though.

That's done a lot with 45 ACP type bullets in a 45 Colt case. I've seen very good results doing that with a 200 grain LSWC (no crimp groove, typical 45 ACP bullet) in the 45 Colt.

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