Gun store know it all.....what do you do?


PDA






M.Weier
April 15, 2012, 07:51 AM
I was in Cabelas in Ft.Worth TX, listening to a guy behind the gun counter feeding 2 women (that had never held a gun before) so many un-truths. Two examples were ".22 LR is a great self defense round" and "here try this HI Power, its the gun that started it all, they designed the 1911 after the HI Power" i just cringed..... What would you do? I didnt want to start an argument with the guy so i waited patiently for them to walk away from the gun counter and quietly told them they should talk to other gun store clerks and try to get better information. I really wanted to call him out on his lies.......being polite is frusterating sometimes.....:cuss:

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun store know it all.....what do you do?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
beeenbag
April 15, 2012, 08:18 AM
myob... I know YOU know better, but you don't want to come off as a gun store commando either. Unless these two women are friends of yours and you feel responsible for their choices, leave them alone and go about your business. This is just my opinion.

joed
April 15, 2012, 08:26 AM
I'm with beeenbag on this one. How do you know the next person won't tag you as a moron? When I see things like this I walk away, when I'm on the receiving end it's different.

alsaqr
April 15, 2012, 08:28 AM
Lots of gun store clerks are untrained. They also come cheap, thats why the store hires them. On the other hand; one should never miss a chance to mind his own business.

M.Weier
April 15, 2012, 08:36 AM
I basically did just walk away. I just politly told the women to not take everything he said as "true or correct" and to get other opinions and information. I didnt go into any specifics with them as far as his mistakes.

303tom
April 15, 2012, 08:52 AM
I am sorry, but I would have made a scene, started a argument & probably cost somebody a job............Un-truths about firearms is what has given our passion & sport a BAD name, so yeah I probably would have caused a ruckus.

bikerdoc
April 15, 2012, 08:54 AM
Im retired. I got a dream P/T job in a gun store, a small Mom and Pop, but Mom died last year. About 3 times a year we get complaint letters. Two are stupid but the third is valid enough for boss to call us all tgether and tell us about it.
Feel stongly that this might be valid if it got in the right hands, then again we are talking about a big corp.
Thats about all you can do short of forgeting about it.

buck460XVR
April 15, 2012, 09:04 AM
myob...


This. Only thing worse than a gun-store-know-it-all is TWO gun-store-know-it-alls.

guntech59
April 15, 2012, 09:05 AM
I am sorry, but I would have made a scene, started a argument & probably cost somebody a job............Un-truths about firearms is what has given our passion & sport a BAD name, so yeah I probably would have caused a ruckus.
I agree, although I would try to be polite about it.

If the clerk lies, or is ignorant about that, what else is he telling trusting customers that is patently false.

glassman
April 15, 2012, 09:05 AM
Agree you should walk away even though you might want to scream. Seeking opinions of experienced shooters and doing homework/research is something that any shopper should be doing. Caviat emptor!

Apuuli
April 15, 2012, 09:23 AM
You did the right thing. Advice like that could have gotten someone killed.

Double Naught Spy
April 15, 2012, 09:34 AM
I am sorry, but I would have made a scene, started a argument & probably cost somebody a job............Un-truths about firearms is what has given our passion & sport a BAD name, so yeah I probably would have caused a ruckus.

No. More than likely you would have gotten yourself thrown out.

Gtimothy
April 15, 2012, 09:34 AM
I guess I would have been considered a "Gun Store Commando" then. Nothing upsets me more than people who are unknowlegeable making untrue or unsafe recommendations to people who are looking to them for advise. I would rather have someone tell me that they don't know than have them make stuff up! Yeah, you may upset the guy behind the counter but at least those two women are getting some useful information and not a sales pitch. Or look at it this way...Would you want your daughter or wife depending on a .22 to protect herself? Not me!

Our hobby gets enough of a bad rap without store clowns throwing BS out there to people who don't know any better. My 2 cents!

SlamFire1
April 15, 2012, 09:41 AM
If you own the store, and therefore the counter man is an employee, representing your business, then take action and get the guy educated.

If you have a certificate from God, establishing you as his Prophet and ordering you to set the world right, then you have the moral authority to intervene.

If you are simply a shopper, then it is none of your business.

If it really, really bothers you, don't go back to the store, or buy the store and fire the counter man.

The Lone Haranguer
April 15, 2012, 09:59 AM
I personally disagree as well about using .22 for self defense, but that is only opinion, not necessarily fact. Too many people have been killed with .22s, while others have taken multiple hits with large calibers and survived or even kept fighting, to make such an assertion. The .22 might well have been the best choice for those individuals, who you don't even know. And yes, the BHP was designed after the 1911 - and not even by John Browning - but what is the real impact? I will have to go along with MYOB. If you just can't let it go, maybe you could have a discreet and tactful talk with the manager about these egregious factual errors. :rolleyes:

Big JJ
April 15, 2012, 10:13 AM
He is there to sell guns.
His facts are wrong but his intention is right.
He is there to sell a gun for the store owner and for the customer.
After all any gun is better than no gun at all and a 22 cal is probably where they should start if they don’t have any experience.

jad0110
April 15, 2012, 10:27 AM
The .22 might well have been the best choice for those individuals, who you don't even know.

I agree. Two words: Rheumatoid Arthritis

My mother has fairly painful RA, and finds everything except her beloved Hi Standard Supermatic Citation to be painful to shoot.

The Lone Haranguer
April 15, 2012, 11:09 AM
My mother has fairly painful RA, and finds everything except her beloved Hi Standard Supermatic Citation to be painful to shoot.

Ten rounds of .22, in the hands of an obvious enthusiast (this gun was expensive even then and commands collector prices today), isn't something I would want to stand in front of. :D

GEM
April 15, 2012, 11:18 AM
1. Cabela's clerks usually know very little. Guns mismarked. Don't know their stock. One told me that they didn't have shooting gloves, never did. Found them by wandering around.

2. Their ads are less than truthful. Many of the specials - they don't have. Just a come on.

3. I once tried to bring some sanity to a similar conversation about buying a shotgun. Guy wanted a pump just to scare folks with the rack. He also wanted blank rounds for more noise. The clerk recommended rubber 00. So I spoke up and the two of them looked like they wanted to kill me. :eek:

On the other hand, for some reason (I guess I look like a sage like Fred), I've had folks ask me questions.

Bottom line. It's their life.

JVaughn
April 15, 2012, 11:34 AM
this to me is no different than a thousand vendors in the world at flea markets, retail stores, on the internet, and at the malls - doing whatever they have to in order to make a sale. The rule is and always was: buyer beware. If you see someone selling snake oil, and you recognize it for what it is, don't buy it. I don't hear anyone railing out about the latest ginzu knife on the infomercials. same thing.

Rail Driver
April 15, 2012, 11:43 AM
Personally if I'm in a shop and a clerk is passing out misinformation whether it be about their products or about self defense or guns in general, I will usually get in touch with the manager or owner and explain the situation. More than once I've been the result of a clerk being reprimanded and re-trained, or fired depending on the severity of the lie. I don't do this to get people in trouble or fired, I do it to prevent more misinformation about my beloved hobby from being spread around to new shooters.

Legionnaire
April 15, 2012, 11:54 AM
Tough call. I hate to see someone being fed bad information that might cost them later. At the same time, it's not really my right or responsibility to weigh in unasked. For me it has been very situational.

Had one instance in a large store I don't frequent often where a clerk was feeding a guy bad information about a very good gun (Ruger revolver, IIRC). When the clerk was called away for a moment, I started a conversation with: "That's a very nice gun; have one like it and love it." That got us talking in a positive vein. Buyer started off with something like, "Great! I've been looking for something I can use for (can't remember his actual purpose) ..." I was able to say "Well, that is a great gun, but there are better for what you intend." Turned into a good conversation that continued after the clerk came back. But because I started off positively ("That's a great gun ..."), I don't think the buyer or the clerk were defensive or offended.

That was an exceptional case, though; generally, I keep my mouth shut, especially in stores I tend to frequent regularly.

larryh1108
April 15, 2012, 12:06 PM
Seeking opinions of experienced shooters and doing homework/research is something that any shopper should be doing.

Well, these ladies thought they were seeking "professional opinions". They could even not take good advice "because the guy at the gun store said..." Caveat emptor is one thing, going to a place that sells something and asking for their advice is another, to the uneducated.

Would I have said anything right there?
No but I would have done what the OP did and tell the women to seek other opinions because what they were told was not the truth but a sales pitch. Then I'd write the owner and tell him what I thought of his employee. Maybe nothing would happen to him but you didn't sit on your hands, either. IMO, of course.

sallzy
April 15, 2012, 12:54 PM
I have two thoughts,
1. Put yourself in the buyers position. your in a store looking to buy something you know little about,talking to the store clerk and trying to decide what to buy. How would you feel if a total stranger decided to inject themselves into the conversation by telling you the store clerk doesn't know what he's talking about and you should do "this" instead. would you be ok with that? I don't think most people would. I know I wouldn't and would probably tell the guy to mind his own business. He may actually be more knoweldgeable than the store clerk but honestly,I don't care. It's none of his business.
2. I carry a Jennings J-22 in chrome ( yes I know, JENNINGS!!!!GASP!!!) It's loaded up with cci 36 gr mini mags and goes bang every week when I shoot it. It's accurate and hides nicely. I'm more of the mind that it's not so much the size of my shooter but how comfortable I am shooting it. I could carry my G19 but it's just not as easy to conceal and even being a 9mm it's still not as cheap to practice shooting as my .22. I could open up a whole can of worms by asking the question, "just what is the minimum caliber for a proper carry piece" but the opinions would be varied and numerous. and have already been beaten to death time and time again. carry what your comfortable shooting and shoot it a lot. I'd rather see someone carry a .22 that they practice with weekly then someone carry a .50AE that they've only shot twice. but thats just me......

Jorg Nysgerrig
April 15, 2012, 01:16 PM
Well, these ladies thought they were seeking "professional opinions". They could even not take good advice "because the guy at the gun store said..." Caveat emptor is one thing, going to a place that sells something and asking for their advice is another, to the uneducated.
Anyone who seeks "professional opinions" from someone who is looking to sell them something has already made a mistake. Doesn't matter whether it is guns, cars, or laser eye surgery.

wyohome
April 15, 2012, 01:55 PM
If it was a matter of opinion, I would say nothing, I have seen someone killed by one head shot from a .22. If it was something dangerous and factually wrong like 'They will be tight, but 3 1/2" shells will work in your 2 3/4" shotgun' I may speak up.

BlkHawk73
April 15, 2012, 01:58 PM
Tough call, if it was a question of safety, you interrupt. If it's simply fables and stories like this scenario, you politely keep your distance and perhaps intercept the customers away from the counter. You then speak to the manager - maybe. It's a widespread occurrence actually. It's the testosterone kicking in with the male ego helping create the genius once they're on the other side of the counter. Same occurs on the customer side even more actually. Both sides are quite evident at gun shows. (love the customers with the "I know what these cost" lines to get a better deal. :rolleyes:
Now that all being said, if the know-it-all comes across as the ego trip type rather than just the ignorant (term not used as a derogative term but as one that's simply doesn't know they are mistaken) then I might interject. Maybe not my place but it'll bring the ego-junkie back down to Earth and maybe have him think about telling tales at a later time.
Bottom line, all depends on the scenario and the attitude the story is told with.

larryh1108
April 15, 2012, 02:06 PM
Jorg, I do not disagree. However, if someone is ignorant on the subject they may think the guy selling them should have the right answers. If you need a computer and never owned one and are intimidated by them and you walk into Best Buy with their Geek Squad, wouldn't you trust what the guy behind the counter tells you? After all, it's his job to know. Same with guns. They aren't on shelves at every box store. They are somewhat mysterious and clandestine. If you are ignorant on the subject and you walk into a gun store to learn about them then I don't know where else the uneducated would go when it comes to firearms. Discussion at work may be taboo. Talking to your neighbor who thinks the .50 anything is the best way to get to your .308 or 12ga may not be the best way either. Go to your local sheriff and he'll likely tell you that most shootings are with your own gun or a bunch of other lies to dissuade you from getting one. Talk to a friend of a friend who likes pepper spray and knives and you get another answer. So, I'd guess that when a newbie to guns walks into a gun store, they believe the advice they will get is from an "expert". That's my thought. Firearms are a different story than almost any other consummable. Everyone drives, has or had a car, etc. Easy to seek opinions. Not so with firearms.

beatledog7
April 15, 2012, 02:12 PM
Same thing happened to me a few months ago. I solved it by getting out of earshot.

willypete
April 15, 2012, 02:38 PM
one should never miss a chance to mind his own business

That's great advice, right there. Well put, too. ;)

I have a hard time biting my tongue when I hear know-it-all nonsense, and I usually have to walk away. Unless someone is speaking directly to me or someone I'm with at a gun store (I love introducing new shooters to some of my favorite local gun stores :D), I try very hard not to respond to this sort of bloviation.

coalman
April 15, 2012, 02:55 PM
A .22lr is better than nothing. Getting shot can be psychological as much as physical, and just displaying the gun can be effective. However, "great" for SD it's not. This is an unprofessional statement IMO.

The BHP recommendation is the more frustrating part for me. IMO, he had a BHP they could not move and was trying to just get it out of the case; something he'd joke about after the sale. Suggesting a BHP in this case as a first gun is unprofessional IMO.

Professionally, IMO, the salesman's job is to make the sale, BUT to also try and find a balance with what's best for the customer. This is good for business long-term IMO. And, this is good for gun owners as a whole as the more people who have a good experience as a gun owner the better.

Personally, I have a hard time stomaching these things; people being taken advantage of. I think our society has changed somewhat with our tolerance of it, and it varies by locale. What if he'd suggested 10mm? A .500 S&W? When does it become too much? When does it become okay or not okay to prey upon ignorance?

The discussion was about a self-defense gun, right? The women could be in because they'd just been assaulted or fear imminent assualt for good reason. Who knows. IMO, as it's a gun and not a pair of shoes (or the like), there is more responsibility on the salesman's part than to just the store. So, I do not see the salesperson as being a know-it-all, I see him as being unprofessional and irresponsible. As such, I would have likely (politely) suggested they also consider a .38 revolver if they'd not already and that my wife/girlfriend/daughter/whatever really liked hers as her first gun. Or, encourage them to visit a local range to try guns out. Or, if I did not know enough I may ask why they are considering a gun. It's how you say it, but, IMO, you can interject without be a jerk about it. And, I think there is a social responsibility to do so at times.

Lex Luthier
April 15, 2012, 03:06 PM
There will always be ignorant people who cannot tell good information from bad. This is one way in which selective evolution works every time. Choose to help the people closest to you.

I have given up on trying to correct falsehoods and vagaries in those situations. I have also learned to never ask for technical help at certain stores, except for where the bathroom is and do they have more (insert product) in the back.

There is a great comfort knowing what other people don't know.

JRH6856
April 15, 2012, 03:07 PM
3. I once tried to bring some sanity to a similar conversation about buying a shotgun. Guy wanted a pump just to scare folks with the rack. He also wanted blank rounds for more noise. The clerk recommended rubber 00. So I spoke up and the two of them looked like they wanted to kill me.

Good thing the guy just wanted blanks... :)

Jorg Nysgerrig
April 15, 2012, 03:10 PM
If you need a computer and never owned one and are intimidated by them and you walk into Best Buy with their Geek Squad, wouldn't you trust what the guy behind the counter tells you? After all, it's his job to know.
It's his job to sell you things. He only needs to know enough to convince you that you want what he is selling. Same with guns.

I understand what you are saying about the somewhat esoteric nature of guns and I agree it might be hard for newbies to find out information. Hopefully sites like this one help out some, but there will always be some people who turn to the experts who want to sell them something.

jeepnik
April 15, 2012, 03:16 PM
Me being me, I'd speak up and suggest the ladies speak to the store manager. If the counter jerk got upset, I'd offer to speak with him and his manager. If the idiot were the manager, I'd ask to be put in contact with the owner.

We don't need newbies being few a line of BS just to make a sale.

Heck, one place I used to deal with also had a range attached. I offered one young fellow a chance to shoot what I had along. I, also, suggested he find another shop and compare what they told him to what he had heard there.

JRH6856
April 15, 2012, 03:19 PM
In any big retail outlet, a good sales clerk is there to sell product, not give good advice. He is there to sell the customer what he can get the customer to buy, not necessarily what the customer wants or needs. The more a sales clerk knows about the product, the more likely he is to resist selling the customer a product that is not right for the customer, and thus, more likely to lose a potential sale. So the best sales clerk is one that knows little.

It is the same with guns, computers, cars, appliances and electronics. I do my own research, learn what I need to know, decide what I want to buy and where I want to buy it, and then go buy it. I don't ask clerks for anything unless I can't find it on the shelf and there is not a self-serve computer for checking stock. I don't need their advice or opinion, just their knowledge of the store layout. And even that is often lacking.

Small, dedicated mom & pop type shops are often different and can be a gold mine of knowledge, but not necessarily good prices. The higher price is often worth the expertise that comes with it. If you find one of these stores, the worst thing you can do is mine the knowledge and then buy where prices are lower.

mljdeckard
April 15, 2012, 03:32 PM
I learned a long time ago, retail store managers are either unwilling or able to pay for genuine expertise. The vast majority of their customers don't need advanced advice, and those that might need more advanced advice will get it somewhere else. (like here, for example.)

Some years ago, I applied for a phone support job with a well-known online gun retailer. Durng the interview, it became obvious that I knew MUCH more about shooting and phone support than the g uy interviewing me ever would. And I remembered the lesson I had learned in the music gear business. There are far too many new guys who think that the subject is so much fun they will work f(r minimum wage in store credit. They don't HAVE to pay what a real professional is worth.

Loosedhorse
April 15, 2012, 03:34 PM
I don't know. Let's assume that the women don't buy anything, and after they walk away from the gun-counter you walk up and tell them the salesman was feeding them a lot of...stuff. My guess is that you've got at least a 60% chance of getting a polite version of, "So...you think perhaps I've never encountered a salesman before?"

;)

And if the conversation is proceeding to sale, well--I'm not sure which I'd rather do: step between a mamma bear and her cub, or a salesman and his commission.

A fool and her money...

David E
April 15, 2012, 03:39 PM
"The Browning Hi Power is a great gun. I forget, what year did it come out? It had to have been before 1911, right?"

BigN
April 15, 2012, 04:26 PM
Keep your mouth shut and move on. Even if the information you're giving is correct, just by the mere fact of you creating a scene will shift the balance from your information to you just being an idiot. Nothing here to do but myob.

aeriedad
April 15, 2012, 05:50 PM
Keep your mouth shut and move on. Even if the information you're giving is correct, just by the mere fact of you creating a scene will shift the balance from your information to you just being an idiot. Nothing here to do but myob.
What scene did he create? After the customers were out of earshot form the wannabe salesman, he suggested they could get better information from another clerk. Maybe I wouldn't have done the same thing, but he wasn't necessarily wrong in his recommendation. He was just trying to be helpful by sharing a relatively uncontroversial opinion. No scene, no controversy. And in any case, it was just his opinion; the ladies were free to ignore his advice, or to engage him in further conversation if they though he could do better than the store clerk.

Either you didn't read the OP, or you ignored inconvenient details so you could tell him how foolish he was to interfere. He wasn't wrong to do what he did, and he wouldn't have been wrong to ignore the customer/clerk interaction and go do something else. Why do so many here on THR derive so much pleasure from judging the actions of others?

moewadle
April 15, 2012, 06:03 PM
many who said MYOB. I do not think OP has any business butting in. At the very most he might casually suggest to the women to check out other places of business and other opinions about firearms and move on. Like already said...the only thing worse than one gun store commando is two. And technically, the statement about the .22 being a good defense gun is just sales person's hyperbole. It is not like he said it would drop a Cape Buffalo at 1000 yards. And, I think there is an ethical line being crossed should another customer overhear a sales persons sales talk and openly contradict him. Meaning that is unethical and interfering in another's place of business. So, MYOB and move on. None of your business and do not be self-righteous.

gym
April 15, 2012, 06:04 PM
You would lose either way. Bite your tounge and just blow it off. If they were buying something as important as a gun, they should heave done some research first. It would be like an alien walking into a KIA showroom. He must have had a reason for pushing a particular gun, either he had a lot of them, his commission was better on that one, or his boss told him to get rid of it, either way you would have made an enemy, and not have been welcomed in there. you may not even have been thanked by those ladies, who may think he is the expert and you are just some guy off the street who is bothering them. you did the right thing by leaving it alone.

SwampWolf
April 15, 2012, 06:06 PM
Me being me, I'd speak up and suggest the ladies speak to the store manager.

And "me being me", I'd keep my mouth shut and tend to my own business. Nothing worse in my mind than some "informed" customer butting in on a conversation between a clerk and another customer that may or may not have any relevance to the subject at hand with their informed opinion. I don't think it's my duty or obligation to intervene in a discussion just to "enlighten" the ignorant and to parade my insights on a subject I might (or might not) have more knowledge of, no matter how well intentioned. But that's just me...;)

As others have opined so succinctly: MYOB!

barstoolguru
April 15, 2012, 06:07 PM
two problem stem from this…one is guns are non returnable and two is the guy behind the counter is making a commission on sale so he is and will say whatever he has to make a sale

aeriedad
April 15, 2012, 06:14 PM
At the very most he might casually suggest to the women to check out other places of business and other opinions about firearms and move on.
Read the OP again. That's exactly what he did...after they left the clerk.

Fremmer
April 15, 2012, 06:18 PM
Oh I think I would have let that alone. They may have liked the 22 or the hi power, nothing wrong with that.

moewadle
April 15, 2012, 06:32 PM
at the risk of beating a dead horse. The more I think about it the more I wonder why so many people in the world self-appoint themselves to be guardians for others. So many people on this forum talk about the "Nanny State" and government interference and then someone decides he/she will be the nanny in a gun store for two adult women. I think even more strongly now that what I said was the correct path. Ethically and otherwise. Are you going to try and protect everyone from mistruths just because you know something about firearms. Who gives you the right to be interfering??

aeriedad
April 15, 2012, 07:06 PM
Who gives you the right to be interfering??

The OP said:

I didnt want to start an argument with the guy so i waited patiently for them to walk away from the gun counter and quietly told them they should talk to other gun store clerks and try to get better information.

Doesn't sound so much like interference to me. If we take the OP at his word, it doesn't even sound pushy, just polite. The ladies were free to act on his suggestion...or not.

Maybe you wouldn't have done the same thing, and I don't think I would have either, but it seems like he was more helpful than anything else. It sounds like he took care NOT to interfere. Of course you disagree, but what puzzles me is why you feel the need to pronounce judgement here. No harm, no foul.

Kendahl
April 15, 2012, 07:15 PM
In my opinion, the OP handled an awkward situation tactfully. He avoided an argument with the clerk and didn't try to sell the women on his own point of view.

In his shoes, I might have done two more things. The first would be to suggest to the women that, if they hadn't already, they take an introductory handgun class from a disinterested provider, preferably one aimed at women. The second would be to send a letter to the store manager which listed all the clerk's misinformation and suggested that, in the interest of not alienating potential repeat customers, he train or screen his sales staff better.

willypete
April 15, 2012, 07:22 PM
Ethically and otherwise. Are you going to try and protect everyone from mistruths just because you know something about firearms. Who gives you the right to be interfering??

I think that most people with a strong set of ethics would consider correcting "mistruths" to be a proper course of action.

In fact, I think a lot of people here on THR and in the real world would consider it a beneficent act if they could prevent harm from occurring to someone by the simple intervention of correcting an erroneous statement or giving a little guidance.

PBR Streetgang
April 15, 2012, 07:33 PM
I Like this quote
“Never seem more learned than the people you are with. Wear your learning like a pocket watch and keep it hidden. Do not pull it out to count the hours, but give the time when you are asked.”

The only time I would speak out is if the person gave out unsafe information where someone could get seriously injured or killed.

newfalguy101
April 15, 2012, 07:46 PM
And yes, the BHP was designed after the 1911 - and not even by John Browning - but what is the real impact?

The OP typed that the clerk said it the other way around, that the 1911 came AFTER the HP, which is nonsence, but in reality more than likely meant nothing to those shoppers anyway. Oh and JMB DID in fact design the HP, and had a working model upon his death in 1926, D Suave (sp?? ) did the double stack mag.

JMB's patent drawing:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=2DVLAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false


As for the OP's question, I would, and have politely intervened in the conversation, hoping the guy simply misspoke, and asked for clarification, then either the guy corrects himself, explains his reasoning,or shows himself to be the idiot he is. At that point, I say something like, "hmmmm interesting, first time I have heard that one" and walk away.

Dr T
April 15, 2012, 07:55 PM
I am with MYOB. In general, the ladies are generally used to hearing male puffery and are trained to ignore it.

As for the 22: I have been known to carry a North American Arms mini-revolver with Speer Gold Dot 22 magnums in it. But then, I can usually hit a 5 inch circle at 5 yards with it.

valnar
April 15, 2012, 08:03 PM
At a minimum, I would have given a noticeable sigh or "ahem" so that the clerk heard me. It would be his choice to address me or man up and fix his error. If he truly did not know which came first, the 1911 or BHP, then in his response to me about my guttural inflection would prompt a friendly discussion with the customer present.

12gaugeTim
April 15, 2012, 08:04 PM
The one about 1911 vs HP is negligible but the 22 as a SD round is debated heavily, and even the most zealous believers in it still don't classify it as the best there is. I personally don't believe it would be more impolite towards the clerk as it would be helpful to the two women to tell them that this clerk cannot be trusted. It doesn't make you a jerk, it doesn't make you a "commando", it's just filling the vacuum of factual information and/or advising greenhorns that no, that rusty secondhand HP22 will not in fact work every time.
He was providing the women with incorrect information, and probably knew it too; OP did nothing wrong.

moewadle
April 15, 2012, 08:59 PM
the ethics of this...you have missed my point...if a person starts interfering he/she is setting himself up as the knowing person here...when he/she was not asked, was in someone else's place of business, etc, etc...just because you think someone is wrong does not give you the ethical right to butt in. That is my point. And someone questioned our questioning of this....the reason we are doing it is because the OP asked for our opinion so he is getting our opinion.

willypete
April 15, 2012, 09:48 PM
just because you think someone is wrong does not give you the ethical right to butt in

Man, you've just eliminated about 99% of the threads on THR...

And missed the part where I mentioned preventing harm.

Anyway, yeah, if someone is dead nuts wrong about something that may be a safety issue, I do have an ethical right, and sometimes an obligation to butt in.

pockets
April 16, 2012, 08:52 AM
Gun store know it all.....what do you do?
I continue with my own shopping.

If you set out to correct every wrong thing you heard a salesman tell someone, you'd have no time for anything else.


.

Legionnaire
April 16, 2012, 09:16 AM
I keep thinking about this thread. Guess I mostly follow the counsel from Proverbs 26:17 ...

"Whoever meddles in a quarrel not his own
is like one who takes a passing dog by the ears."

That sounds a lot like "MYOB."

LeonCarr
April 16, 2012, 09:28 AM
Just keep in mind that most of the gun store know it alls spend most of their time at the gun shop working and not at the range shooting.

Everytime I go to the Fort Worth Cabelas I leave with my tongue bleeding from all the complete untruths being told by the staff behind the counter.


Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Gtimothy
April 16, 2012, 09:48 AM
It's his job to sell you things. He only needs to know enough to convince you that you want what he is selling. Same with guns.

I understand what you are saying about the somewhat esoteric nature of guns and I agree it might be hard for newbies to find out information. Hopefully sites like this one help out some, but there will always be some people who turn to the experts who want to sell them something.


As a NOOB to some types of guns, I ask questions on this site often. However, as someone who has been shooting for over 40 years, I have a bit of knowledge to fall back on. The responses I get to some questions range from useful information to "this has been covered MANY times before - try using the search function". :fire: BTW, the search function is painfully hard to use especially when you're looking for useful information!:scrutiny:

Now imagine a person who has never picked up or fired a gun. They go to the "Big Box Gun store" to find a gun for home/personal defense. Who is the expert? The guy behind the counter!!!! I'm not saying he isn't, just saying that more often than not, he is only barely qualified to even pick up a gun! KEY WORD...SALESMAN!!! I've heard people say they don't want to get involved because it isn't their business, I call BS!!!! It is always our business to promote our hobby in a positive and safe manner! The Anti's love to hear about someone who accidentally shoots them self or someone else! These new shooters need to be taught CORRECTLY right from the beginning! And that includes the right gun for the purpose they are buying it. As a responsible shooter I would have tactfully interjected questions during their conversation/sales pitch and try and and get the customer to ask even more questions. It's very easy to do and unless you're in a big hurry to leave, takes very little time. I personally don't care if the guy behind the counter is only there for the sale. If he doesn't at least care enough to know his job then he could be putting someone in danger. It would make me sick to see a picture of one of those two women on the news because of some gun related incident! (Unless they took out a bad guy of course! ;) )

zeke707
April 16, 2012, 11:19 AM
Did you hear the entire conversation? What gun shop would you feel comfortable in when making a purchase? You are most likely to be correct in your assessment of the information provided. Would your suggest a Heizer .45? How about your favorite .50? I know, somewhere in between. Then the information provided by an expert may very well be "all over the board" i.e., subjective. Actually I want to purchase a gun for my wife. One she can carry in her purse. Based on the initial post, what carry would you recommend? Where to carry on her person? Thanks

ForumSurfer
April 16, 2012, 11:26 AM
I am with MYOB. In general, the ladies are generally used to hearing male puffery and are trained to ignore it.

Not to mention I hear too much puffery and fecal banter to even begin an attempt at correcting it.

moewadle
April 16, 2012, 12:17 PM
I would say if you interjected as you suggested that would be just plain rude and still none of your business. Your thoughts about the antis, notwithstanding. Still none of your affair, none of your business. Not your conversation.

Gtimothy
April 16, 2012, 01:26 PM
I would say if you interjected as you suggested that would be just plain rude and still none of your business. Your thoughts about the antis, notwithstanding. Still none of your affair, none of your business. Not your conversation.


I love the comments that have been put out on this thread that basically say "It's none of my business so I just bite my tongue and walk away." :scrutiny: I guess the whole reason people gain knowledge is to hoard it and dole it out only to those who know the "secret handshake!"

I never said you have to charge right in and make an A$$ Hat out of yourself, I'm just saying there are tactful ways to do it (I have done it) and nobody got upset.

I would expect to get slammed if I walked into my LGS and interrupted a conversation. I adhere to the 60 second rule...I don't make any comments until I've been listening for 60 seconds. That way I feel I have a firm grasp of what the content of the conversation is. I only make comments when I feel they are warranted and I don't cause scenes. I guess if you can't do that it would be considered rude!

303tom
April 16, 2012, 01:48 PM
No. More than likely you would have gotten yourself thrown out.


Then I would have gotten thrown out, but not at our Midway store.............

moewadle
April 16, 2012, 02:20 PM
with people acting, what I consider rudely, and butting in is that the person who does this tells himself he is justified because he knows this/that rule or fact, or he knows more about guns, or he knows this and that, and he believes he is morally obligated and ethically correct in doing this. In short, a lot of the time there is big-time rationalization going on for acting inappropriately.

Grogan14
April 16, 2012, 02:31 PM
Anyone who seeks "professional opinions" from someone who is looking to sell them something has already made a mistake. Doesn't matter whether it is guns, cars, or laser eye surgery.

My sentiments, exactly.

The chances of someone today actually being thankful to you are very low. Most people aren't worth your time, sadly.

dom1104
April 16, 2012, 02:43 PM
Guns are not a religeon to me, I really dont care what other people think they know.

Never even feel the need to butt in or correct someone.

In the end it doesnt matter.

Other people, dont feel the same way I have noticed, generally the young, ethusiastic ones who play video games a lot.

fdf
April 16, 2012, 03:41 PM
Interesting comments and insight.

Would be interesting to hear from knowlegable counter salesman and the many inaccurate and stupid comments and questions they get from customers who do not have clue, especailly those in full camo. clothes.

I have a feeling it's a two way street.

fdf

moewadle
April 16, 2012, 03:58 PM
because this is my third post on this...but further thinking in the same direction I have taken....I have seen so many posts on THR about the "Nanny State" sort of government that some antis want. We 2nd amendment people get in an uproar over self-righteous people that want to protect everyone from themselves by taking away guns and gun rights. These nanny-state advocates are self-righteous, think they have the right answers so people will not hurt themselves and others with the evil, dangerous guns. I want to say...."Who are they to set themselves up as protectors." But we all know, I think, that most of those people really believe, or have rationalized at least, that they are morally and ethically correct; that it is their job to do this because, we the people, cannot do if for ourselves as individuals.

So, my conclusion is, going in a gun shop or wherever and setting yourself up as some type of moral guardian and/or protector of those two ignorant, unknowing, adult women is the same thing. Leave those women alone to be the adults they are and to consult with whom they wish. I was always taught, and it is a rule of courteous society, that you do not give advice unless you are asked. So, that enters this also. Again, leave the adult women alone. They did not ask for your advice. As for the salesman.....it is just sales hyperbole and, in my opinion, you can not objectively prove him wrong and he has a right to believe what he wants and pass that opinion along. We see sales hyperbole all the time in our economy (Ford is better than Honda, GE is better than Motorola...). If you think you are justified in interfering it is my opinion that this is equal to those of the Nanny government who think they know better than me how many guns I can have and what kind, etc. End of rant, for now. :banghead:

Flopsweat
April 16, 2012, 04:31 PM
...
... "I adhere to the 60 second rule...I don't make any comments until I've been listening for 60 seconds. That way I feel I have a firm grasp of what the content of the conversation is." ...
I like this technique. I really should use it more than I do.

larryh1108
April 16, 2012, 05:04 PM
moewaddle, you make a compelling argument. Many good points. However, the OP stated he waited for the women to walk away and he suggested they seek another opinion. His reaction was, IMO, correct. However, those who wish to jump in and make a scene should read your post again. Lots of food for thought.

Elkins45
April 16, 2012, 05:24 PM
Man, you've just eliminated about 99% of the threads on THR...

People come here actively looking for the opinions of random strangers. That's not so much the case when shopping.

I fail to see how not knowing when the High Power was designed would harm the ladies in any way. And the thing about .22 for self defense will still be debated long after we are all dust.

I'm in the MYOB camp just because the world seems to function better with fewer self-appionted white knights. Just think how much better things would be in Sanford, FL if that guy hadn't taken it upon himself to be the zealous, crusading guardian of his neighborhood.

Besides, as others have commented, how many women do you know that aren't used to men being know-it-all blowhards?

Gtimothy
April 16, 2012, 05:26 PM
The original post was " Gun store know it all.....what do you do?" I answered according to the way the OP was stated...Apparently I answered wrong. :what: Sorry!

However, I still stand by my assertion that it is not ok to just "bite my tongue and walk away". I guess for most its just another thread for the forum..."You'll never guess what I overheard the Mall Ninja saying when I was at the range last weekend!" or better yet "Can you believe some woman thought she could stop a rapist with a .22? Yuk Yuk Yuk....My 2 cents!

larryh1108
April 16, 2012, 05:33 PM
As moewaddle touched on, I'd like to know from those who felt compelled to jump in and say something is where do we draw the line? We bristle when he says the .22 is perfect for SD. We "know better" but there are a lot of people who carry a .22 or .25 or .32.

What if the guy told the ladies that the .380 has been proven to be the "best for self defense" due to the number of successful defensive shootings and you believe that anything that is less than a .40 is useless and you jump in. As moe mentioned, you are now putting your personal views ahead of another person's views. Where do you draw the line when it comes to jumping into the conversation? What makes you more right than another?

B!ngo
April 16, 2012, 06:21 PM
I think this is an excellent model to live by. And as a 'car guy' as well as a 'gun guy', I tried this example on myself:
I am in the Chevy dealer, discussing buying a car (probably a 'Volt', but that's another issue). I spot two young well-off drivers discussing that they just got their license and getting talked in to buying a Corvette ZR1. In the wrong hands, and on a rainy road, not a car any rookie should be driving.
Should I, would I say something? Answer is heck no. Even though I think the probability of wadding up a ZR1 by the uninitiated is liklier than these women having problem with their .22, I would be pained, but would just look the other way.
I think some of us look at guns as some higher power and those with knowledge have a higher calling to inform all others. But ultimately, caveat emptor. It's just not my business.

I Like this quote
“Never seem more learned than the people you are with. Wear your learning like a pocket watch and keep it hidden. Do not pull it out to count the hours, but give the time when you are asked.”

The only time I would speak out is if the person gave out unsafe information where someone could get seriously injured or killed.

M.Weier
April 16, 2012, 07:38 PM
Just to clarify, since it seems to have gotten really twisted since my op, i did not cause a scene, nor did i butt in on a conversation, nor did i force my opinion on anyone.

Bingo, if the salesman told the young driver that the corvette was perfectly safe to drive on ice and snow, would you still not say something ......politly.....away from confrontation with the salesman?
I

willypete
April 16, 2012, 07:39 PM
I would say if you interjected as you suggested that would be just plain rude and still none of your business. Your thoughts about the antis, notwithstanding. Still none of your affair, none of your business. Not your conversation.

I think it's awfully ironic how vocal some people are about other people shutting their gobs. :D

Especially when they go on to rationalize it. :evil:

I'm not going to let some moron spread bad gouge, especially when it stands a good chance of being harmful to an ignorant person. That's my stand, if you don't like it, tough. If ever I give out unsafe information, I want someone to fix me.

B!ngo
April 16, 2012, 08:33 PM
You pose a good question. And, depending on my answer, there likely will be a follow-up! :)
But honestly, I'd like to think my answer would be 'no' I would not. Just not my business to patrol and inform on all of the questionable comments and behaviors of salespeople in environments with which I have no controlling interest (i.e. I am just a patron).
I also accept that it's a tough call, but at some point people should be smart enough to know what to do with their money.
B

Just to clarify, since it seems to have gotten really twisted since my op, i did not cause a scene, nor did i butt in on a conversation, nor did i force my opinion on anyone.

Bingo, if the salesman told the young driver that the corvette was perfectly safe to drive on ice and snow, would you still not say something ......politly.....away from confrontation with the salesman?
I

B!ngo
April 16, 2012, 08:43 PM
You pose a good question. And, depending on my answer, there likely will be a follow-up! :)
But honestly, I'd like to think my answer would be 'no' I would not. Just not my business to patrol and inform of the comments and behaviors of salespeople in environments with which I have not controlling interest (i.e. I am just a patron).
I also accept that it's a tough call, but at some point people should be smart enough to know what to do with their money.
B

Just to clarify, since it seems to have gotten really twisted since my op, i did not cause a scene, nor did i butt in on a conversation, nor did i force my opinion on anyone.

Bingo, if the salesman told the young driver that the corvette was perfectly safe to drive on ice and snow, would you still not say something ......politly.....away from confrontation with the salesman?
I

holdencm9
April 16, 2012, 08:43 PM
I have never overheard blatant lies or untruths, but a few times a clerk has been puzzled by a question or something, and I chimed in. One time, for instance, a customer asked the difference between the Kahr CM9 and PM9, and other than the adjustable front sight, they couldn't figure it out, or why there was such a huge price difference. Finally I just casually mentioned something about the polygonal rifling and some parts being metal instead of plastic on the PM9. I didn't want to "show up" the clerk but felt it would be to everyone's benefit. And I tried not to do it in a "know-it-all" way (as I clearly don't!)

I think in your exact situation I would have left it alone too, but it is hard to say.

jrdolall
April 16, 2012, 08:46 PM
If I was absolutely certain that said clerk was completely clueless, rather than just stating an opinion that differs from my own, I would inform the manager of the department or of the store. If you had the clerks name it would be better as they could identify the culprit. Most stores do not want their employees misleading customers but also don't want to pay for knowledgeable sales clerks.

I can only hope that a person looking into buying a first handgun will do a little more research than just listening to a clerk at Cabela's but you never know. I have been buying guns for many years and have been told some outright bald faced lies. I have disagreed with many assertions made by clerks at different stores but I usually just move on when they tell me that Cobra makes the finest handgun available below $500 or that I am wasting my money on anything other than a Glock.

aeriedad
April 16, 2012, 10:41 PM
I have seen so many posts on THR about the "Nanny State" sort of government that some antis want. We 2nd amendment people get in an uproar over self-righteous people that want to protect everyone from themselves by taking away guns and gun rights. These nanny-state advocates are self-righteous, think they have the right answers so people will not hurt themselves and others with the evil, dangerous guns. I want to say...."Who are they to set themselves up as protectors." ...

So, my conclusion is, going in a gun shop or wherever and setting yourself up as some type of moral guardian and/or protector of those two ignorant, unknowing, adult women is the same thing. Leave those women alone to be the adults they are and to consult with whom they wish. ...

Really? This is how I see it:

The Nanny State says private businesses such as bars and restaurants may not permit its patrons to smoke. Prosecution and fines are levied against violators.

The Nanny State says motorcyclists must wear helmets. Prosecution and fines are levied against violators.

The Nanny State says motorists may not talk on a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle. Prosecution and fines are levied against violators.

The Nanny State says your firearms must be registered and listed on your license. Prosecution and fines are levied against violators. In some cases jail time and permanent loss of the right to keep and bear arms may also apply.

The Nanny State says...a lot of stupid things that do little to make anyone safer and serve only to make the state more powerful.

As I understand it, the OP took care to avoid a scene and had nothing to gain by offering friendly advice:

I didnt want to start an argument with the guy so i waited patiently for them to walk away from the gun counter and quietly told them they should talk to other gun store clerks and try to get better information.

Yeah, that's real Nanny State material there. :rolleyes: Well, unless it's just one private citizen giving a bit of polite, friendly advice to a couple of ladies who may or may not need it. It is possible he's not trying to control anyone, isn't it? The ladies were free to ignore his advice without threat of fines or imprisonment, weren't they?

As for the salesman.....it is just sales hyperbole and, in my opinion, you can not objectively prove him wrong and he has a right to believe what he wants and pass that opinion along.

So, John M. Browning did design the Hi Power before the 1911? I suppose you have objective proof of this?

If you think you are justified in interfering it is my opinion that this is equal to those of the Nanny government who think they know better than me how many guns I can have and what kind, etc. End of rant, for now. :banghead:

In my opinion, this is not a matter of being "justified in interfering." It's just one private citizen sharing his point of view without controversy. How very "High Road" of you to distort his tactful behavior into something it clearly was not. :uhoh:

homatok
April 17, 2012, 12:38 PM
Personelly I think the OP acted in the right way! I hope I would have had the courage to have done the same in similar circumstances. If the only one who could/would get hurt was an idiot that was buying too much car, or not enough gun I might agree the OP had no business speaking up BUT such was not the case here. Helping someone come to an informed decision is comendable. Have a great day.

RevDerb
April 17, 2012, 07:24 PM
I would have found a manager and asked him/her to inject him/herself into the conversation. Bad advice could cost lives.

Twmaster
April 18, 2012, 02:49 AM
Chances are the manager of the department does not know any more than the sales clerk.

Complaining to that manager would have gotten you nothing. So long as his department makes or exceeds it's numbers they do-not-care.

I think the OP did the right thing. He did not cause a scene nor did he sound like a know-it-all.

Me? I'd have just finished getting my reloading supplies and got outta there. (I shop at the Allen, TX Cabela's)

whalerman
April 18, 2012, 03:04 AM
jrdollol says a very smart thing that gets right to the point. Many businesses want knowledgable salespeople, but won't pay to obtain and keep them. They also won't do the WORK involved to train their people appropriately. There was a saying my Dad used to tell me, something about getting more with sugar than something else.. YOu know what I mean. In other words, keep it positive. I would do as some have suggested. I would talk to management and tell them how much I appreciate their knowledgeable staff. I might just add that this guy might need a little work. With all due respect to twmaster, ask the manager if they plan to stay in town very long. Suggest they won't be if they continue to mislead future customers. But I certainly know what you mean, Twmaster. Many just look to today and don't care about tomorrow.

murphys_law
April 18, 2012, 03:32 AM
Personally if I'm in a shop and a clerk is passing out misinformation whether it be about their products or about self defense or guns in general, I will usually get in touch with the manager or owner and explain the situation. More than once I've been the result of a clerk being reprimanded and re-trained, or fired depending on the severity of the lie. I don't do this to get people in trouble or fired, I do it to prevent more misinformation about my beloved hobby from being spread around to new shooters.

Amen, I just recently did this at a lgs and got a prompt and sincere response from the stores owner letting me know he would have a talk with his employee.

Chris-bob
April 18, 2012, 04:05 AM
There was a saying my Dad used to tell me, something about getting more with sugar than something else.. YOu know what I mean.
You catch more flys with honey than vinegar.

I think the OP handled it grandly. He never said the salesman was wrong, but merely informed the shoppers to get a second opinion on the matter with another salesman. I've done that many times. Often, the customer then asks my opinion. I give it and still point them to another salesman. I never complain when another customer injects their opinions and experiences into my ears, and am grateful they want me to be informed(even if I don't like what they say). I do find that I am much kinder in person than online...

evan price
April 18, 2012, 04:08 AM
Unless it is patently dangerous or illegal, MYOGDB. Not enough people nowadays seem to be able to do that.

coalman
April 18, 2012, 04:41 AM
I read two underlying philosophical camps:
1) MYOB always = Right or wrong does not matter... let 'em get shafted if that's the outcome... I'd just be sure to leave quietly so I don't have to actually witness it... better them than me anyway... and it's really their own fault because they should have known better, even if just starting out, and if they don't or couldn't have, well, it doesn't matter anyway because... (repeat mantra)
2) Good Samaritan = (At least) Try and help 'em get good information starting out, even if to just respectfully and humbly suggest they get more information.

It really comes down to those two philosophies IMO: MYOB always or Good Samaritan, and we see this in many other instances, big and smalll, on this forum and in the real world. It's a difference in fundamental belief system in a way. The rest of this thread attempts to validate and justify one or the other with endless what-ifs and yeah-buts.

justice06rr
April 18, 2012, 05:05 AM
This would've been a perfect chance for you to pick up these women and get their phone numbers! :D

then say, I have a big gun.. wanna see?

Lol j/k. Seriously tho, U did just fine man. many LGS clerks are uninformed and sometimes simply clueless about firearms. Actually this would've been a good opportunity for you to have talked to these women and parted some more accurate information about guns. Maybe even take them shooting with you sometime! There you go, how's that for a pick up line? lol.

P-32
April 18, 2012, 05:26 AM
There are times one should jump in. A friend of mine, not a friend of a friend but a real friend of mine was at a well known gun store in southern CA. A lady came in with a Winchester mdl 42. She had borrowed the shotgun from a relative and it was slightly damaged while she had it. The lady was doing the right thing, wanting to repair the minor damage. The clerk behind the counter talked the lady into a re blue job of the entire shot gun. My friend spoke up and told the lady if she had the 42 re blued it would de value the 42 more than the minor damage did. He suggested she was better off by just leaving it alone. The clerk was none too happy but a 42 was saved.

45_auto
April 18, 2012, 07:53 AM
Why are all you guys so upset because the clerk is a wrong on his history of the 1911 vs the BHP?

At least he was right about the most important part - the .22 is a great self defense round.

aeriedad
April 18, 2012, 08:13 AM
Why are all you guys so upset because the clerk is a wrong on his history of the 1911 vs the BHP?

At least he was right about the most important part - the .22 is a great self defense round.

Ha! I see what you did there...45_auto.

Yeah, the guy was wrong on a historical matter, and he has an unconventional opinion on SD cartridges. Either of those could be overlooked alone, but taken together as examples of other questionable things he was allegedly saying behind the gun counter, he has indicated he may be an unreliable source of advice to new shooters.

Anyway, this whole discussion is little more than the sharing of opinion...hardly material for an epic rant. IMO.

Double Vision
April 18, 2012, 08:40 AM
This sort of thing comes up in motorcycle shops too.
It's a thin line between trying to be helpful, or an annoyance.

jrdolall
April 18, 2012, 09:25 AM
In my former life (prior to making my money and bailing) I was a business owner. I had to interview, hire, train and often fire employees from minimum wage positions to six figure folks. I occasionally had to fill a position with a less than qualified applicant for a variety of reasons and then try to get them as well trained as possible before they began interacting with customers or operating equipment.
Getting quality people is VERY difficult at any price so in this instance I would assume the clerk was relatively new to the job and learning the ropes. As my mother used to say "after 6 months he knows where the bathroom and Coke machine are". That does not make it right for him to give out bad information but it does make it understandable. I don't have a Cabela's near me so I have never bought a gun from them though I have perused several of their stores. I love the one in Kansas City with the mule deer room that sits right next to the Kansas Speedway. They have a great gun selection and I would hope that the manager of that department would like to know if his clerks are giving out bad info. He probably already knows it and hopefully is working to train the guy.

I gave many sales presentation as well as lsitened to many sales presentations in my career. As a young pup about 25 or 26 YO I heard a phone conversation between one of our salesmen and his customer where he gave the customer completely erroneous information about a product. I just laughed after he hung up and told him the real answer. I told him that, IMO, it was usually better to tell a customer that you would get back with them and make sure you gave them correct information rather than giving an answer that was completely wrong.

I once had two appointments back-to-back with sales teams from competing companies. It was like watching Fox News and MSNBC on the same topic. They BOTH had facts and figures to prove that their product was the better seller and most liked by consumers. Neither of the groups was actually being untruthful but I thought it was funny how they could put a spin on their products.

JohnBT
April 18, 2012, 12:42 PM
"Gun store know it all.....what do you do?" "

If the shop owner wants my opinion he'll ask for it. Seriously, it happens, ususally over some obscure fact or model number. I'll be standing around minding my own business and the next thing I know, here it comes, "Hey, let's ask Mr. Knowitall."

John

willypete
April 18, 2012, 10:37 PM
In the spirit of this thread, I'll jump in and be a know it all.

If your opinion runs contrary to fact, it's wrong.

E.g., "In my opinion, .308 Winchester was a great basis for the .30-06. .30-06 is the magnum version of .308, that's why it's got a more numbers in the name."

kb58
April 19, 2012, 11:01 AM
Why are people smart enough to know that they shouldn't trust car salesmen, but set their brains aside when in a gun shop? A gun is simply wood/plastic/steel, and the salespeople's job is to sell them - period. Anyone looking for "facts" in a gun store needs to rethink where they are. It's like asking to have a balanced rational discussion about God with a pastor... The conclusion's written before you even ask.

A great rule-of-thumb that's saved me a lot of grief: when money is involved, don't believe what they're telling you.

larryh1108
April 19, 2012, 04:15 PM
Look at it logically.
Let's use the 2 women the OP mentioned.
Let's say that one of them had a girlfriend who was mugged or had a break in. So she decides to get a gun "for protection". No one in their circle has a gun and many are strongly anti-gun. Work has the same mindset. They don't know about THR because they just decided they need protection.

Now, if you look at it logically, where would they go? I'd say they'd go where they sell guns. Who better to know? So they go to the gunshop mentioned above and the clerk tells them what was said and they go home to think about it. They feel they consulted "an expert". We know better. They don't. A car salesman is no different than this gun salesman but they're spending $500, not $20,000. Big difference. So, what choices does someone like these women have? Seriously? How do they get "better" educated? They feel they got the info they needed. Why would they believe otherwise? They went and saw a "pro".

Yes, sales staff is there to sell but responsible sales people also help to educate. That's how you make a sale. You give them options, educate them as best you can and then let them decide. I've worked in sales for 40 years. Human nature showed me that if you give the customer one choice (this is the best gun for you) then you have less of a chance to sell it "right now" than if you give them 3 choices. (This one is a .22LR, cheap, small but under-powered. This one is a 9mm, popular, cheap ammo, easier to control, many choices on size. This is a .38 revolver. Easiest to use, relatively cheap ammo, relatively easy to handle, relatively easy to conceal in the J-frame. Which one will fit your needs the best?) Give them 3 choices and they usually pick 1. Give them 1 choice and they'll probably walk. Give them more than 3 choices and they get confused and want to go home to do more research on it. It's psychological as much as anything else. A salesman is there to educate and help them pick the best gun (in their shop) for their needs. Shoving a .22 at them and telling them this is the way to go isn't salesmanship, it's ignorance.

SFsc616171
April 20, 2012, 02:34 PM
Find a firearm that YOU know a lot about, ask 'bubba' to allow you to have a closer inspection, then hit him with a tech question pertinent to that firearm. Find a 'Nambu', a Radom, a Makarov, or even an EAA Witness (Are they an Italian firearm? Aren't they patterned after the CZ-BHP?)
BTW, which came first, the BHP, or the CZ? (BHP ca. 1935; CZ ca. 1975)

SwampWolf
April 20, 2012, 07:37 PM
BTW, which came first, the BHP, or the CZ?

The BP. And other than the fact that they are both semi-auto pistols, they have little else in common in terms of design.

SwampWolf
April 20, 2012, 07:40 PM
Find a 'Nambu', a Radom, a Makarov, or even an EAA Witness (Are they an Italian firearm? Aren't they patterned after the CZ-BHP?)

With the exception of the EEA Witness (which is an off-shoot of the CZ, not the BHP)-no.

SwampWolf
April 20, 2012, 07:43 PM
Find a firearm that YOU know a lot about, ask 'bubba' to allow you to have a closer inspection, then hit him with a tech question pertinent to that firearm. Find a 'Nambu', a Radom, a Makarov, or even an EAA Witness (Are they an Italian firearm? Aren't they patterned after the CZ-BHP?)
BTW, which came first, the BHP, or the CZ? (BHP ca. 1935; CZ ca. 1975)

So, the moral of this story might be: watch out for Bubba. He might well know more about guns than you think you do. :rolleyes:

Stump Water
April 20, 2012, 08:28 PM
I only got through two pages of this thread, but I was only on about the 10th post before I found amusement in the people that said, "Mind your own business".

Then, when it comes to 2nd ammendment rights those same people will say, "Speak out!".

So when the gun control groups spew BS we're supposed to take a stand, but when "one of our own" spews BS we're supposed give a free pass.

Is keeping the same face on all the time that hard?

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun store know it all.....what do you do?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!