[Dajerseyrat]

I can tell you this much about the gun, dont buy it. I waited months for mine and recently took delivery of it and as any excited boy with a new toy would do,I cleaned it and I went straight to the range. First Impression,it looks cool and that’s where the good impressions end.

The gun is very awkward almost to the point of difficult to load and you will most likely cut your finger doing so. Now imagine trying to load this thing in the field under high stress situations. I dont see how it is possible to combat load a round into the chamber without turning the gun upside down. The magazine selector switch is very hard to manipulate from right to left on my gun and would need to be in the neutral position to attempt a combat load, which is one more extra step which would most likely get you shot in the face in real combat..

Chambered and fired first round, and racked it back only to encounter a double feed jam! The gun failed to extract the spent shell and attempted to load not 1 but 2 additional rounds at once, so a total of 3 rounds were stuck in there, leaving me with a 26″ long baseball bat to defend myself with. This type of jam is simply impossible to clear in a combat situation and would have cost me my life. It takes several minutes to clear the jams once they happen. I fired another round and it did the same exact thing. In fact the first 6-7 attempts the gun jammed the same way. Thinking it was me possibly limp wristing the slide, I allowed 4 other colleges to attempt to shoot it and it did the same thing for all 4 of them, including one range master/fire arms instructor. So it was not me. Now I am far from a gun expert, but I have been in law enforcement for over 15 years and qualify 2 times a year with our shotgun and have put thousands of shotgun rounds down range and never once had a shotgun jam on me.

I notified Kel-tec who told me they wanted me to return the gun which keep in mind was just purchased a day or two prior, and would send me a call tag and take a look at it when they get a chance. That was over 4-5 days ago, no call tag, no returned email or phone call.

I fired the gun several more times since and the gun now religiously jams on me at least once out of every 10-15 rounds.

To make things worse I attempted one more time today to shoot it utilizing a forward pistol grip which subsequently broke 2 teeth of the rail within the first 3 shots….

Kel-tec stated this gun would revolutionize the industry, and if by revolutionize they mean get a ton of people killed, then yes they are doing it. At this point I fell that Kel Tec is utilizing people like me to do their R&D for them while making big money on markups.

The design is really stupid when you look at it in detail and how the rounds are extracted and rechambered via one exit which increases the jamming probability much more than a side eject. The extracted round has to pass downward past the rounds in the magazine, then a new round needs to be fed upward. In my opinion this X-crossing effect is a poor design prone to failure and jamming. There is no way this gun would ever stand up to the abuse of actual combat performance either for police or military.

Save your money and buy a real shotgun this thing is a video game cool looking novelty, and I dont predict Kel Tec being around the marketplace much longer with failures like this weapon.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-13_16-17-08_245.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-13_15-48-33_583.jpg

Now reliable sources tell me that out of 100 guns shipped so far, the have had 8 failures not including mine which would be 9. Now that's assuming all 100 guns are in the hands of end users and not sitting on shelves in gun stores being gouged for 3X's the MSRP by these animals...That's also a conservative number released by KelTec to my source, which means the actual failure rate may be much higher than that..Even so lets assume 10 guns out of 100 had issues thus far, that is an dismal 10% failure rate!!! What do you think the Military or police personnel would do with a 10% failure rate? It would not make the initial testing and be cut from their arsenal for sure. Lets take our assumption 1 step further, and realize that out of the 100 guns shipped, all 100 of them are in the hands of recreational shooters who shoot in a controlled environment and very few of these guns will see actual combat or real life scenarios. When you look at the fact that 10% of these guns have failed under those conditions and almost immediately, it is quite disturbing.....Put this gun in a harsh dessert or jungle environment and the failure rate will skyrocket IMHO...

Keep the Keltec in the video games, because in real life you dont have extra lives..

[Bubba613]

Thanks for that review. Shows that something can be a neat concept but a fail in real life.
Kel Tec is getting a rep for this sort of thing.

[Legionnaire]

My sense is that Kel-Tec uses early adopters as beta testers. I had one of the first 150 P32s some years ago. It had problems, but they made it right ... and soon the P32 had a good reputation ... as does the P3AT. I don't still own a Kel-Tec, but still consider them good guns for the money. Even Ruger's LCP, which looks like a P3AT clone, had some early issues and was subject to a recall.

My guess is that if you stick with it, Kel-Tec will get yours running right, learn from the experience, and solve any design or manufacturing issues along the way. But I agree with you; as an early adopter, you're part of their R&D team.

[the_hustleman]

I'm just waiting for ruger to pick it up and do it right

*swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*

[Jon Coppenbarger]

That does not sound good and I have not fired mine yet but sounds like I better.
If someone is interested they should go to the kel-tec forum as they do discuss the known problems in detail.

[Dave McCracken]

Meanwhile, all of the 870s here continue to function flawlessly....

[dprice3844444]

dave,oh so true,and are lighter,to boot

[wriggly]

Kel-Tech comes up with some neat stuff......on paper, but the problems associated with some of them get swept under the proverbial rug for a long time before being addressed.

Case in point. The red locktite being used to secure the barrel to the pivot block on the Sub2000. One rapid fire session with a high cap mag, is all it takes to break the hold of the locktite, and voila, you now have a gun that allows the barrel to rotate.

They did finally address that issue, and since last September or so, the Sub2000 barrels are now pinned in place. Now if we can get them to come up with a decent front sight. :D

[Dajerseyrat]

Im sure if everyone here was given a free KSG to be part of a beta tester group there would be no complaints. Unfortunately we all paid for our guns, some of us 2-3X's retail. The gun should work flawlessly. I didnt buy a shotgun so that I could keep shipping it back to them for them to design it correctly...:banghead:

[BamAlmighty]

I dont predict Kel Tec being around the marketplace much longer with failures like this weapon.

Their guns despite the many hiccups still sell like hot cakes. They're going to be around a lot longer than you have the capability to predict.

I am not smart enough not to buy a first production gun, but I'll be buying a KSG down the road.

[lobo9er]

Meanwhile, all of the 870s here continue to function flawlessly....

well most.... :P

[armoredman]

I've had 870s fail me on the Dept range...but not very many of them!
I am still interested in the KSG, but the hyper exaggerated price tag means I will continue to be interested for several years, until availability is far wider and all "beta" testing is concluded.

[Carl N. Brown]

I'm sure if everyone here was given a free KSG to be part of a beta tester group there would be no complaints.
But then we would know up front we were testers, not consumers. If you buy a consumer good, you expect it to be pre-tested.

[Jon Coppenbarger]

yep went and tried it out and had no problems so I got lucky.
Did not have the problem with the bottom rail because I researched the ksg and found as I posted 6 days ago you would have a problem if you did what you did do.

I put the sling on it and it really helped free the hand I used to load it. I found it easier to load upside down but after a little practice it became easier to load right side up. Need to practice it more.

I did find something interesting as it was not as easy to switch from side to side with the tubes. which ever tube you are using the shell moves slightly to the rear. if you shoot that side empty you can just switch it over but if you already have the switch to one side and decide to switch it over when loaded you have to push the shell in to allow the switch to move.
So it would never be a problem unless you decide on the other tube after you made your selection.

I have not decided on what kind of sight system I plan on yet.
interesting and so far fun.
Oh I had forgot they have the small slots in the tubes so you always know how many rounds left and Since I had the sling on the loaded weight did not seem to bad.

[Dajerseyrat]

John, the gun is advertised with a lower rail for attachments such as grips, even their website shows pictures of it with one. So therefore why would should I not be able to utilize a lower rail mount fore grip? Especially a reputable one like a Sig Sauer???

Here are some pictures of the 2 piece construction if thin plastic used in the gun. Some of the edges are still rough.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-15_15-16-42_404.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-15_15-17-12_576.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-15_15-43-44_202.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-15_15-43-55_136.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-15_15-44-05_804.jpg

In this picture you can see what appears to be rust in between the barrels of a brand new gun...Rust!!! Seriously? How do you make a gun that starts to rust immediately?:mad:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-15_15-44-32_779.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-15_15-44-48_481.jpg

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Just curious as why you just decided to join today and your first post is negative?
No info in profile so tell us a little about yourself.

[Dajerseyrat]

Jon,

I joined about 10 different gun forums to post my review of this gun I was sold. My motive is clear and obvious...No smoke or mirrors. If I can stop people from making the same mistake as I did, or at least not paying 3X retail. In fact I had my gun sold for $1300 but dont have the heart to screw someone with this junk..Im just going to return the gun to Keltec and dispute my Credit Card charges. Their attitude was that they were more concerned with going to the NRA show then dealing with a customers problem in a timely manner. It does not take over 5 days to issue a UPS call tag, Im not an idiot.. If your doubting anything I am saying I can post emails from Ryan at Keltec, but that would be disrespectful to him I feel..

Jon if you feel that strongly about this gun, I will sell you mine for what I have into it which is $1000 with the Grip, and you can see from first hand experience that this gun is not ready to be sold to people..

[Jon Coppenbarger]

why did you take possession of a rusted firearm?
Yes you are right as they did show them with folks using the bottom rail and when I first seen it I did not think it was right and that was one of the reasons I went to the kel-tec forum to find out about the ksg before I shot it.

They will replace it from what I am told but also watch if you put a light on it like the sure-fire with grip as it also seems that the 3 point lever on the rail has also caused some problems.
If you keep it when you get it back look for a shorter grip to help keep from using excessive torque when cycling with the grip or use one which helps even the pressure out with more contact area.
I gree this should of been addressed before they went out but I also believe they will change that design down the road.

I have been thinking about a making a adapter to put a metal bottom rail on it and then I can use anything I want.

Good luck when you get it back.

[Dajerseyrat]

Jon,

Didnt notice it at first, and was excited to get the gun I guess and didnt do a complete inspection until it was too late.

I read somewhere that keltec would replace the lower rail if it broke, ONCE..lol.. I like the looks of the gun but it definitely could have been built better I really would have waited. Im just pissed off that:

A) Keltec didnt issue a call tag ASAP and seemed more concearned about going to NRA.

B)Im going to be shipping this gun I just purchased back for a 6 week repair...

Keltec didnt wait 6 weeks to take my money did they?

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I can see what you are doing and can not blame you.
The NRA show has caused a few company's to be behind as was the shot show time.

I have a bad laser in a new 380 bodyguard and have a email from the smith rep from my area but him being at the NRA show he has not gotten back with me. But I feel confident we will get everything resolved this week.
Call tags usually take from a few days to about a week but with the show it is expected to take a little longer and being a small company its expected.

I had a bad lc9 and it took a week to get the call tag and another week for the company to have it back in their records and I hope to have it back soon.

Sorry you are having problems and since you are dissatisfied I do not blame you for wanting to sell it. get it fixed and then get your money back by selling it as the prices are not going down anytime soon. sorry but not interested as I got mine for cost.

good luck

[Husker1911]

How were they "issuing the call tag?" Call tags are either emailed to you through an email received directly from FedEx/UPS, or are arranged for a particular day and time window, where the driver will pick it up from you and have shipping label in hand. Have you checked your spam filter for the call tag if it were emailed?

Aren't you jumping to a time frame concusion of "six week repair?"

[boricua9mm]

What you see and describe as rust is most likely Brazing, which is typically used in shotgun construction where adhesion of tube assemblies and other more squared off pieces is required. We see this same type of Brazing in use by Mossberg and Sons.

As for the ergonomic issues you've found, ufortunately I fear you are in fact Beta testing the shotgun for Kel-Tec. Let's face it, despite SHOT Show and NRA marketing materials, Kel-Tec does not have a strong Gov't, Military or LEO reputation. Don't be fooled by the cool advertising with some random dude wearing a SWAT helmet. Had KT been genuinely interested in designing and developing a user-friendly "Tactical" shotgun, then they likely would have enlisted the help of Law Enforcement, Military, and even Gun Games Shooters to help lend them some advice.

There is no excuse for that so-called Picatinny rail to split like that, other than the fact that it should not be there at all. Forming an M1913 rail out of two halves of plastic molds is, quite frankly, 1/2 @$$ed!

Unfortunately, many more will be there, cash-in-hand, ready and willing to make the same mistake.

[MachIVshooter]

The design is really stupid when you look at it in detail and how the rounds are extracted and rechambered via one exit which increases the jamming probability much more than a side eject. The extracted round has to pass downward past the rounds in the magazine, then a new round needs to be fed upward. In my opinion this X-crossing effect is a poor design prone to failure and jamming. There is no way this gun would ever stand up to the abuse of actual combat performance either for police or military.

The Remington 10/17 and Ithaca 37 use that design. It's fundamentally sound, though it would seem KT needs to iron out the kinks in their adaptation.

Meanwhile, all of the 870s here continue to function flawlessly....

Of the 3 I've owned (all 870 express 3" chambered), two had serious issues with 3" shells. One would jam almost every time, the other too frequently to be trusted. But they worked fine with 2-3/4 stuff.

The KSG is very unique, and they'll get it right. It's unfortunate that KT does often sell products that aren't quite ready for market, but they do get it right, and they do make it right for those who bought problematic guns. I've had 6 KT's, only two had (minor) issues; My 1st gen P3 needed a new mag catch (fixed for free), and my PMR-30 broke the assembly pin, which KT replaced (plus a spare), that I had in my hands 3 days after contacting them, no charge. They've also sent me free parts to replace the ones I've lost (not broke, LOST) as well as free replacement recoil springs. Never even paid shipping.

I'm sorry you're having trouble, Dajerseyrat, but you've jumped the gun a bit here. KT is second to none in customer service, and they will fix it. Chances are whoever you talked to simply forgot (as humans do), so give them another call. I'm betting they'll be very apologetic and very prompt getting it handled once you explain the situation in a calm, courteous manner. Don't blow up at the person on the other end of the phone; It won't make them inclined to bend over backwards for you. Treat the individual with the respect due another human being, and I'm quite sure you'll get the great service KT is known for.

[berettashotgun]

Sure that is rust?
REALLY looks like ......solder... to me; commonly used to attach O/U barrels. Sure what it looks like to me.
As far as feeding/jamming/not working problems~ you stated they reduced after you RE-tried it out.
I feel for you, those look cool, but I never considered looking cool/tactical or just bada$$ that important. I hope you get relief for your troubles.

[bigfatdave]

Keltec didnt wait 6 weeks to take my money did they?you bought a gun straight from KelTec? How'd you pull that off?

[Ronin8451]

I saw 2 at the Dallas gun show this weekend and they were marked up to $1900 :cuss:! I made it known this was price gouging on an $800 suggested retail gun ! No thank you, I'll take my 35 year old Mossberg 500 or a Saiga .12 !! :evil:

[Dajerseyrat]

I can tell you I paid a lot less than that for mine..:D But that dont make it OK that the gun malfunctions.

[lobo9er]

Meanwhile, all of the 870s here continue to function flawlessly....

My wingmaster rear sight broke off a few days before deer season last year! :) making sure things were sighted in I noticed i was all over the map on paper and that the rear sight was "wiggley" :( easy fix no big fail. Its my back up anyhow so all was well and freezer was filled.

[Dajerseyrat]

I spoke with Ryan today and he was very apologetic as to what happened with the call tag not being sent and he assured me he would get the weapon broken down and repaired in a timely manner. He also explained to me there was an issue with the Sig Saur grip and a few others breaking the rail and they may be adding that they dont recommend those grips to their manual in the future. He listened to my complains with the gun and took down notes so that the proper repairs can be made.The gun is packed up and awaiting UPS pick up. Ill keep yall posted.

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks.

[snooperman]

you could buy several Ithaca 37 and/or Remington 870 wingmaster that would serve you well -for use in the field and around the house. My 2 cents.

[CoRoMo]

...they were marked up to $1900 ! I made it known this was price gouging...
That's actually just the upper end of the current market price. Several customers jumped all over this one (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=272512732) and those customer(s) decided it was worth $1,900.

Suckers? Possibly.

But many of these guns get auctioned on GunBroker, starting out at a price of a penny on up above $1k, but the customers who buy them almost always commit to a price between $1,500 & $1,800. VERY FEW have ever sold on GB for less than $1,300.

[theCan]

My problem is mostly with the intended use of this shotgun. How many officers a year really get into a situation where they need 14+1 capacity. If you're anticipating that kind of firefight, you should probably bring a semi-auto something.

[Dajerseyrat]

Zombie hunting?

[Centurion75]

"...He also explained to me there was an issue with the Sig Saur grip and a few others breaking the rail and they may be adding that they dont recommend those grips to their manual in the future..."

Or they could sackup and just make the rail out of metal!

[Comedian]

My problem is mostly with the intended use of this shotgun. How many officers a year really get into a situation where they need 14+1 capacity.The same could be said of handguns. Is the capacity to carry more ammo than necessarily needed really a significant issue (must be one of those "good" problems)? That said, I don't think the ammo capacity is the part that would attract law enforcement, but the short OAL and the ability to switch ammo types just by working the action.

[NG VI]

Comedian, those are known as "first world problems".


Like when my fiance wants too much adult time for our work schedules, or when I cook her something in a way she doesn't care for.

[theCan]

Personally I think it was irresponsible of KelTec to advertise the ability to put less lethal rounds in one tube and lethal in the other. Accident waiting to happen.

[KTXdm9]

I second Carl's comment. I don't mind being a tester, but I'd like to know up front and have it reflected in the purchase price. Seems like KelTec had an interesting idea, but is struggling on the execution.

[Comedian]

Personally I think it was irresponsible of KelTec to advertise the ability to put less lethal rounds in one tube and lethal in the other. Accident waiting to happen.Not really. KelTec hardly had to advertise that their platform allowed for switching from lethal to non-lethal rounds. Either way, what KelTec advertises doesn't (and shouldn't) dictate police department policy on how non lethal ammunition is implemented.

[theCan]

Not really. KelTec hardly had to advertise that their platform allowed for switching from lethal to non-lethal rounds. Either way, what KelTec advertises doesn't (and shouldn't) dictate police department policy on how non lethal ammunition is implemented.

But that's really all the KSG offers over any other shotgun. and its 300 dollars more than a 500 or 870.

[Comedian]

But that's really all the KSG offers over any other shotgun. and its 300 dollars more than a 500 or 870.By what possible measure is that the only thing the KSG offers over a 500 or an 870? It offers a much shorter OAL without any loss of barrel length or ammo capacity (in fact an increase) on top of the ability to switch between ammo types by working the action. Seriously if you wanna blast KelTec for trickling them into the market and making them impossible to find at MSRP or that the gun has had teething issues since release, go ahead. They deserve it. But ignoring the specs just so you can pretend it doesn't potentially have something to offer over other guns? That's just desperate.

[mr.trooper]

I joined about 10 different gun forums to post my review of this gun I was sold. My motive is clear and obvious...

I HATE it when people do this...

To those who are searching the web, it makes it appear that 10 different people all got bad guns, when in reality it is just one guy with a chip on his shoulder. :mad:

which is one more extra step which would most likely get you shot in the face in real combat..

Just curious ...But what kind of combat shotgun training do you have, and in what professional capacity have you used a combat shotgun?

Either way, what KelTec advertises doesn't (and shouldn't) dictate police department policy on how non lethal ammunition is implemented.
Seeing as most entities that use less lethal munitions have dedicated platforms for them, I would have to agree.

That said, I don't think the ammo capacity is the part that would attract law enforcement, but the short OAL and the ability to switch ammo types just by working the action.

Using a duty shotgun in the majority of real world situations isn't like shooting a few rounds at the range, or even like running a 3 gun stage... There is a heck of a lot more carrying and decidedly less shooting. I'll take an 870 with an 18" barrel, 4 shot tube, and ZERO tactical gadgets - and so will you after you've been holding it at low ready for 3 hours strait. ;)

Some departments like to strap toys to their shotguns ... but in my novice opinion, lighter and simpler is better.

[theCan]

By what possible measure is that the only thing the KSG offers over a 500 or an 870? It offers a much shorter OAL without any loss of barrel length or ammo capacity (in fact an increase) on top of the ability to switch between ammo types by working the action. Seriously if you wanna blast KelTec for trickling them into the market and making them impossible to find at MSRP or that the gun has had teething issues since release, go ahead. They deserve it. But ignoring the specs just so you can pretend it doesn't potentially have something to offer over other guns? That's just desperate.

The KSG is about as useful as one of those 26+ shot magazine extensions you can get for your traditional shotgun. OAL is pretty much irrelevant when you get down to carbine length. I'm sorry but it's a flop of a shotgun, even ignoring the release issues.

[Dajerseyrat]

I would not classify it as a total flop having used it briefly. Once the bugs are worked out I can see it having some tactical advantages over some traditional shotguns. The OAL is about 26" long and you can literally sit in the seat of a vehicle or even drive a car with it slung across your chest in an urban combat environment. However how many of us will find ourselves in such a real world situations..Also if you were scanning a building for intruders it does make it easy to go through doorways and around corners in the "low ready" position or have it up on target. It does fire from the hip quite easily if need be also. Also the comfort of having 14 rounds of devastating ammunition without having to reload is quite a nice feeling, if your faced with multiple attackers. Unfortunately the you know what would have to really be hitting the fan to take advantage of some of these features.

I can tell you from experience the gun is very brutal on your shoulder, especially with 3" slugs. Im 6-00 280 lbs and have very big muscular shoulders and bruised the crap out of my left shoulder running 40 rounds of 00 buck and 20 rounds of slugs through it..Due to the short length you pretty much absorb the entire recoil yourself...

[Comedian]

Using a duty shotgun in the majority of real world situations isn't like shooting a few rounds at the range, or even like running a 3 gun stage... There is a heck of a lot more carrying and decidedly less shooting. I'll take an 870 with an 18" barrel, 4 shot tube, and ZERO tactical gadgets - and so will you after you've been holding it at low ready for 3 hours strait. ;)Nah, I've held my dept. issue 870 with tube extension and 6rnd side saddle loaded up with slugs for a couple of hours, and while it sucks taking some ammo out of the gun isn't going to have a meaningful impact. That and, according to KelTec's website, the loaded weight of the KSG is a mere 8.5lbs which (I can't find exact loaded weights for an 870 tactical) isn't much heavier than an 870. With a loaded side saddle (which are an extremely common sight on shotguns, police and civilian alike) I doubt the difference is all that significant. That said, show me the rule that says that the KSG must be fully loaded in order to still work. If you don't like the additional weight and don't want/need the additional ammo, just don't fill both tubes.
The KSG is about as useful as one of those 26+ shot magazine extensions you can get for your traditional shotgun.Orly? Due explain how the KSG, at less than 30" OAL, is as useful as an extention that would add another foot to the end of a Remington 870. Really curious to hear this one.
OAL is pretty much irrelevant when you get down to carbine length.Nope, you're wrong. Between two carbines that are functionally identical in all categories except OAL, the shorter one will be better for use in close quarters. That's relevant if you're clearing buildings or using the weapon from inside a vehicle.
I'm sorry but it's a flop of a shotgun, even ignoringthe release issues.If not because of it's problems at release (teething issues, scarcity, etc) why is it flop?

That said, I'm tired of this. If you'd like me to take any more of comments seriously please take the time to back up your broad brush statements with some facts.

[danez71]

I would not classify it as a total flop having used it briefly. Once the bugs are worked out I can see it having some tactical advantages over some traditional shotguns....

Now wait a minute.....

I can tell you this much about the gun, dont buy it.

The gun is very awkward almost to the point of difficult to load and you will most likely cut your finger doing so. Now imagine trying to load this thing in the field under high stress situations. I dont see how it is possible to combat load a round into the chamber without turning the gun upside down.

The magazine selector switch is very hard to manipulate from right to left on my gun and would need to be in the neutral position to attempt a combat load, which is one more extra step which would most likely get you shot in the face in real combat..

Chambered and fired first round, and racked it back only to encounter a double feed jam!

This type of jam is simply impossible to clear in a combat situation and would have cost me my life. It takes several minutes to clear the jams once they happen.




Jon,
In fact I had my gun sold for $1300 but dont have the heart to screw someone with this junk ..


Jon,
Jon if you feel that strongly about this gun, I will sell you mine for what I have into it which is $1000 with the Grip, and you can see from first hand experience that this gun is not ready to be sold to people..

So you wouldnt sell it for $1300 and make a profit because you didnt want to "screw someone" but then turn around and willing to sell it to Jon for your cost of $1000?

Wow... very admirable all the way around.


Jon,
I joined about 10 different gun forums to post my review of this gun I was sold. My motive is clear and obvious....

Yep.

But some of your posts seem a bit contradictory.

[Dajerseyrat]

Danez,

Allow me to clarify since you either did not READ my statments fully or simply can not Comprehend what I said.

#1) My particular gun is broken (as in it does not function properly) which is why I would not sell someone a broken gun. I had it sold but I am not some ******bag who will pass off the problems to the next owner. I emailed him and told him of the issues and stated that when I got the gun back, I would let him know if he is still interested. But no way in hell was I selling someone a gun I was having issues with at the time.

#2) what I said in my last post was that I could see how the KSG would have a "TACTICAL ADVANTAGE" over some other shot guns, I did NOT say it will "PERFORM" better or be "MORE RELIABLE" than other guns. I said due to its smalle size and increased ammo potential it would have a tactical advantage. Do you even know what that means?

In my opinion having used other guns, the KSG is poorly made,not fully tested and proven and is not reliable in my personal experiences thus far. That having been said, the gun is not entirely without uses. I can see plenty of criminals utilizing it due to it's small size,easy concealment and high magazine capacity. Urban gangsters would love this weapon..However for it to be utilized for LE it would have to be more durable, more tested and have any and all bugs worked out fully.

If your going to take the time and dissect every word I type and quote them in your responses, at least take the time to read, re-read,understand and comprehend what your quoting when attempting to discredit any and everything I say....

Thank you..

[theCan]

Orly? Due explain how the KSG, at less than 30" OAL, is as useful as an extention that would add another foot to the end of a Remington 870. Really curious to hear this one.

It doesn't add a foot. It's no longer than a regular magazine extension. It's a spring loaded rotary magazine, like the M32 grenade launcher.

[btg3]

Dajerseyrat,
Thanks for a reality check on what the KSG promises versus delivers. I've been following this shotgun with interest, but am becoming less and less inclined to own one. You've likely saved myself and others some disappointment.

[danez71]

Danez,

Allow me to clarify since you either did not READ my statments fully or simply can not Comprehend what I said.
.....
.....
.....
If your going to take the time and dissect every word I type and quote them in your responses, at least take the time to read, re-read,understand and comprehend what your quoting when attempting to discredit any and everything I say....

Thank you..

LOL... dont get all butt hurt.


Seriously... you stated that its "impossible to clear in a combat situation" and "The gun is very awkward almost to the point of difficult to load and you will most likely cut your finger doing so. Now imagine trying to load this thing in the field under high stress situations."

Lets just throw out the "impossible to clear in a combat situation" and focus on the "The gun is very awkward almost to the point of difficult to load ..." comment.

How is that an advantage with anything tactical?

Sorry if your offended....I did read... re-read... and understood... and comprehended... that...
But some of your posts seem a bit contradictory.

[Comedian]

It doesn't add a foot. It's no longer than a regular magazine extension. It's a spring loaded rotary magazine, like the M32 grenade launcher.My point still stands. A shotgun with a rotary magazine hanging off the end of it is considerably less useful as a tactical shotgun compared to the KSG.

[theCan]

I'm inclined to put them in the same category of ridiculous. But go ahead. Waste your dollar on one of these pieces of junk. I care not.

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Why are you going to waste your money on this when you can spend alot less on other shotguns. just go buy one and then sell it on the net for a BIGGGGGG profit!!

So did you have problems with yours also? Which shotgun do you own right now?

[theCan]

Why are you going to waste your money on this when you can spend alot less on other shotguns. just go buy one and then sell it on the net for a BIGGGGGG profit!!

So did you have problems with yours also? Which shotgun do you own right now?

To whom are you speaking?

[Dajerseyrat]

D,

When I stated the following:

"impossible to clear in a combat situation" and "The gun is very awkward almost to the point of difficult to load and you will most likely cut your finger doing so. Now imagine trying to load this thing in the field under high stress situations."

Lets just throw out the "impossible to clear in a combat situation" and focus on the "The gun is very awkward almost to the point of difficult to load ..." comment.

How is that an advantage with anything tactical?

I was referring to the loading of the gun being awkward and almost difficult IMO. And the jam is pretty much a done deal if it jams your dropping it and going to your side arm. There is no racking the action and clearing the jam easily. That aside, tactically as is used for clearing buildings,through doorways, concealment,driving in a vehicle or firing from tight spaces such as a vehicle, it has advantages over conventional shotguns. Comparing the 2 different statements is not even in the same ball park.

The gun has uses, but also has flaws or at least my particular gun did. I cant speak for others.

[Comedian]

I'm inclined to put them in the same category of ridiculous.And yet you still fail to explain why it's ridiculous. All you've done is make a handful of generalizations that (as I've been pointing out) have no actual connection to reality.
But go ahead. Waste your dollar on one of these pieces of junk. I care not.Never said I was going to buy one nor did I recommend it anyone else.

[dcarch]

Dajersayrat, I appreciate your honesty in reviewing this gun. The only stuff I'd heard from the gun rags was about how "awesome" and "revolutionary" this gun was. It is very helpful to hear some real, unfiltered, end user comments. Thanks!

[Tirod]

It was said Page One that Keltec is getting a reputation for less than stellar execution. In the minds of many, the specific complaints about the jamming, loading, and moving the switches around would be entirely expected by experienced Keltec owners. A simple search of other reviews have pointed it all out months ago.

Another example of one doesn't make them all bad, however, the sum is that it's likely something could be less than reliable with this new design. And Keltec does have a reputation for releasing their first generation as a Beta. Entirely why a lot of shotgunners have already stated they will wait a few years and let others guinea pig the introductory run.

Along with Keltec's rep as less than stellar on new models is their rep in fixing them - they do have excellent Customer Service, and they do improve the details as time goes one. Those waiting to buy one have reason to - they know they won't suffer from issues in the production guns 18 months from now.

The handling of this design isn't necessarily optimum when a single tube conventional gun is compared. It's much like comparing the M14 and M16, they just don't do some things the same, and it's the user who has to change to take advantage of it. I'm taking complaints about how it works with a grain of salt, especially when "tactical" gets thrown in. At present, nobody on earth is likely an seasoned practitioner of it's tactical use. Give it a season or two on the three gun circuit and I'll listen to someone who's actually experienced in getting the most out of it -

And, there's also the follow ons. This is a significant new approach in design, something that isn't being ignored, and likely is sitting on R&D workbenches in other makers plants. Under scrutiny, different viewpoints with other experiences might come up with alternative ways to select, load, and operate it. Somebody WILL likely jump on it for production, simply because they know they can put out a more reliable design at a more attractive price point, and tout their longstanding expertise in the combat shotgun. Tactical is selling, and it will be a way to keep their foot in that market so they don't lose share when PD's and other organizations start looking at the old standby's with a more informed view. More rounds in the gun is a significant selling point - if you reload it less, you have less loading issues, entirely the point in mag fed rifles anyway. It won't be ignored, it will be a matter of who has the low price bid on expanded cap shotguns.

You can't stop progress, and this constitutes an advance. It's other makers who will likely benefit more. Ruger High Capacity Shotgun, anyone?

[ForumSurfer]

I'm disappointed to hear this. One would have high hopes for something in that price range.

I'll take an 870 with an 18" barrel, 4 shot tube, and ZERO tactical gadgets -

Nah...I'll add a light for serious work, just in case. I prefer handheld, but it's hard to hold one and an 870. But other than that, no tactical doodads for me. No ghost rings, just a good old bead (tritium bead if you just have to have something tactical).

[oneounceload]

Due to the short length you pretty much absorb the entire recoil yourself...

Fit determines bruising, length has ZERO to do with it; sounds like this gun doesn't fit you very well

[theCan]

And yet you still fail to explain why it's ridiculous. All you've done is make a handful of generalizations that (as I've been pointing out) have no actual connection to reality.

Oh and you've just been all full of facts. You're starting to **** me off. It's my ****ing opinion man. Leave it be.

[Comedian]

I'm just trying to get/understand the reasoning behind your opinion that it's "ridiculous" since, conceptually, it solves several real world problems. Traditional shotguns are quite long, and shortening them limits ammo capacity and may require converting to a SBS (if your state even allows it). I don't see why a platform that solves those issues is ridiculous.

[Dave McCracken]

Careful,folks. this is teetering over The Abyss Of Closure.

Stick to the issues, keep it clean. This is a G rated, family friendly forum.

And my take.....

I give Keltec credit for thinking outside the box. And brickbats for releasing the product so flawed and so early.

That's all I'm saying....

[danez71]

D,

When I stated the following:
....
....
.....

I do realize that the concept has some real neat advantages.

Its just the execution of the concept. Being very awkward to load is no good in most situations.

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I can not really think of a firearm that has caused such a stir in a long time. I did a show this last weekend and put one of mine out with a not for sale sign on it just to let folks see what its all about.

Was not surprised how much attention it brought and how many folks wanted a photo of it.

[gunnutery]

Great thoughts Tirod, although the bickering seemed to drown out your post. I do have to wonder though if longer reputed manufacturers are going to pick this one up, or at least at a price to compete with KT's MSRP. Remington came to mind when you mentioned "longstanding expertise." However look at the ACR and how they jumped at the hype to hyperinflate the price tag. I think if Remington were to take something like this on, it would probably charge in the $1200+ range. I think Remington probably feels like laying low for a while after the drive-by attacks from NBC.

[Dajerseyrat]

Check out this Turkish made shotgun similar in design to the KSG. What concerns me about this type of design is what the man says at the end of the video, listen carefully " It didnt jam this time".
http://youtu.be/QrLRmxXdXZo

http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/phoca_thumb_l_4-tfb.jpg


Turkish firearms design company UTAS used the IDEF exhibition in Istanbul to unveil a new combat shotgun, which it claims addresses all the shortcomings of current products on the market.

The UTS-15, which features a magazine top-feed system and light-weight carbon fibre and polymer construction, weighs 3kg and is 71cm long and yet is capable of holding 15 rounds.

UTAS director of manufacturing and product development Ted Hatfield said the company had originally been approached by Smith & Wesson to develop a high-capacity, short, robust and yet simple to operate pump-action shotgun.

However, following the development of a prototype, the US firearms company pulled out of the project and UTAS decided to take it forward itself.

Designed for use by police and military forces during urban engagements, the shotgun features automatic alternating or selectable feed dual magazines, with quick loading ports, compressible magazine springs and shell counters. The company claims that the UTS-15 is the fastest loading shotgun ever designed.

Hatfield highlighted aspects of the design to Shephard, including a selector that allows each magazine to be selected, a collapsible follower that removes any pressure on the last round, and an action that loads the shell at the same speed regardless of how fast or slow the pumping action.

The shotgun also features a point-and-shoot spotlight and laser night sight as well as an integrated top-mounted picatenny rail for iron sights or optics.

Hatfield said the company was hoping to move into full production of the
UTS-15 before the end of the month and was currently looking at tooling and manufacturing options in the US.

We have done hours of tests and fired thousands of rounds, and we are extremely happy with the design the shotgun is capable, robust and simple to operate and maintain.
Perhaps there is a reason shotgun manufacturers have stuck to simple pump action design for quite some time now.

[Series 70]

Allow me to add my experience with the KSG. As I mentioned in another thread, I got mine from my LGS for $650. I am not a terribly experienced shotgunner, so I did not have a lot of old habits to fight. My adult son and I took the KSG, along with my Benelli Nova, to an indoor range. Slugs only inside, so I took the opportunity to zero the Magpul MBUS sights.

I can see how short-stroking could be an issue; the lift only drops all the way down at the very end of the slide travel. I did not find it difficult to feed, though I was taking my time. Under pressure may be a different story, but maybe not after enough practice. And of course, with FOURTEEN ROUNDS ON TAP, you really shoudn't find yourself in a situation where you need to reload under pressure, unless you're shooting a 3-gun match.

My son and I both agreed that the KSG had less perceived recoil than the Benelli. Not a lot less, but a noticible difference. For such a compact weapon, that was surprising.

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Yes that is what I found that I was really making sure it was fully cycled to the rear or it did not pick up a new round. Once I realized it worked very nicely.

[50 Shooter]

I don't find how this shotgun is revolutionary? Since when, 2012?

All Kel-Tec did was copy a design that goes back to the 70's, it was called the Swatriplex-18 and it was a semi-auto 12 ga. that held... wait for it... that's right 18 rounds of 12 ga. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/03/28/winter-swatriplex-18-the-original-dual-magazine-shotgun/

Then let's fast forward to the 90's and you'll see the NeoStead 2000 http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=401 and then into the next centruy we have the SRM-1216. http://srmarms.com/store/pc/home.asp

Yes, the latter is different from both as it is semi and uses a detachable mag but it's still along the lines of loading as the others. In the end it's just another shotgun that isn't "revolutionary" but it looks kinda cool. Hopefully Kel-Tec will get the KSG working and out in more numbers to bring the price back down to where it should be.

ETA: Forgot this one also UTS-15 http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/tr/shotgun-utas-uts-15-e.html

[Jon Coppenbarger]

From my understanding today it is NOT being produced at the rate they say it is. (BIG SURPRISE HUH)

[Jon Coppenbarger]

So Now that I have the KSG I just may take the SPAS 12 to the gun show this weekend. It is a shotgun that others find hard to use also but I don't.

So how many of you have both?

[50 Shooter]

I used to own a SPAS-12, loved it as the looks alone were just badass!!! Wish I still had it, if I ever move out of CA I will buy another to replace it. I sold it to buy a Benelli super 90 M3 which is by far a better shotgun then the SPAS but doesn't have the same cool factor.

Where the Benelli will eat up all types of ammo in semi, the SPAS won't as it needs heavy loads to cycle the action. Maintaining the Benelli is also easier, lose that rubber o-ring on the SPAS and It's done. The SPAS does have one of the best folding stocks, I always enjoyed shooting it one handed when the stock was configured to do it. Plus Arnie never looked better when he used the SPAS to lay waste to those pesky humans. LOL

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I have the fixed stock but always did like the folding one better

[Dajerseyrat]

This is the email I just received and apparently they did find a few issues with the gun that were hopefully resolved. Unfortunately I will not get the weapon back till after May 3rd due to me leaving the country in the morning for vacation. :thumbsup:
Reading what repairs they did, it makes perfect sense to me with the issues i was having.Hopefully it will shoot very good for me in the future and I will be able to post a positive review of the weapon...

I have personally reviewed your weapon and have done the following reviews / repairs:

· Replaced Barrel Assembly / Honed Barrel and Chamber: There was nothing “wrong” with the other barrel except I saw some cosmetic issues with the Picatinny and Barrel… the dimensions were good though with the barrel. That and if you were having extraction issues, I wanted to keep that system here to review in case we receive any more in the future… just in case.
· Reviewed Bolt: Bolt was good. Polished Bolt Lock as it was on the high tolerance and tight on the inside of the Bolt as the Bolt Lock cams down unlocking the system. This was most likely the issue with the weapon not extracting consistently.
· Grip: Good. No issues.
· Rear Stock: Good. No issues.
· Receiver: Completely rebuilt Receiver. It still has the same serial number and is the same Receiver, but it was rebuilt to ensure it was done correctly. The Receiver was sandblasted and re-parkerized to give it a new look again. New magazine springs / magazine plugs / followers, to ensure the rounds are seating properly—nothing wrong with the old ones, but I’m not going to re-use the old ones here. New Cartridge Stops / Selector / Selector Catch. The issue on Double Feeding also came from the inner cartridge stops (KSG-314 and KSG-315) were sanded to the lower tolerance, so there would be times when they did not work… I saw that too on testing. Those were replaced and the weapon does not Double Feed any more. No issues on anything else there. I did polish the swage / feed ramp area and this is smoother here on loading.
· Re-proofed. New assembly as stated above. Weapon was re-proofed.
· Test fired and Function Tested. I shot 200+ rounds through the weapon and two of our technician each shot 100+ rounds through the weapon. The weapon did not double feed and it extracted every round, including the “more challenging Centurion rounds” from Italy.

[theCan]

Well hot damn. That's pretty thorough. I may have to get myself a sub2k eventually.

[Lateck]

I just put my name on a list for one.... :D

I have a number of Kel-Tec guns and all have had the Internet problems...
The problems only seem to be on the internet..:evil:
Just not mine... I have had a great time with my guns.

Sorry you had the issues next time do some research and not be a beta tester,,,, :cuss:
Good Luck
A Happy Kel-Tec customer. :)

Lateck,

[bigfatdave]

I have a number of Kel-Tec guns and all have had the Internet problems...
The problems only seem to be on the internet.
Just not mine... I have had a great time with my guns.

My Kel Tec guns are like that as well, the only "problem" is availability, and that's just solved with persistence and a little extra money. (how much extra is up to the buyer, and can be offset with more persistence)

Sub2k (in the desirable Glock 19 and longer mag version - reliable and as accurate as the sights allow)
p32 (runs like a top with any ammo the right length and shoots to POA out to 20 yards, the tiny grip amplified my errors too much past that, I wonder what kind of groups putting it in a Ransom Rest would produce?)
pf9 (reliable and decently accurate ... not particularly fun to shoot as a 9x19 gun, but the T.I. kit makes it a fun plinker)
pmr30 (reliable, accurate, and came with the old-design barrel and a bag of mixed ammo for ~MSRP when I found someone who had become bored with theirs)

I've seen the RFB in the wild twice, I just don't need a .308 for my purposes.
I've yet to see a KSG in the wild, but then I'm not a shotgun guy and I haven't been looking
A su16 variant seems to be in the works (the Mrs wants one, so she gets one) ... just have to choose and start looking

[wyocarp]

The rat might not be able to give the ksg a positive review but I can. You guys above are correct. One can find whatever answer one wants on the internet. This might not be a starter gun, but it is a serious weapon in the hands of the skilled gunman. My wife plans on shooting my ksg tomorrow but I wouldn't. give it to her for a primary house gun until she had more time with it.

[Dajerseyrat]

I took the gun to the range last night and ran about 100 rounds through it and it did not jam once, so it looks as if the issues are resolved for now. I did immediately the gun was much easier to load and the magazine selector switch was easier to select from side to side, before the repairs it felt like it had to be forced to the point it would break. The action seemed smoother also. I put my sight back on and dialed it in at 15 yards, and will say this much for the gun, it is DEADLY ACCURATE for a short shotgun. With 00 buck I was able to put a hole dead center of the target and was able to then put every other round of 00 buck through the same hole at 15 yards.

Another good thing was that one of my range masters who was there the very same day I first fired the gun and had malfunctions, was there last night and he got to shoot the gun also and said it was night and day from when he first fired it. I will say that I am now happy with my KSG's performance wise so far, time will tell on the durability of the weapon.

[WardenWolf]

That's pretty nice customer service. I heard from another person whose rifle went back to them a couple of times. On the 3rd time, they destroyed it and stamped his serial number on a brand new second-gen version of the rifle, and shipped it to him. They declared it a lemon and gave him a brand new gun in a newer model for free.

[PT92]

Kel-Tech comes up with some neat stuff......on paper, but the problems associated with some of them get swept under the proverbial rug for a long time before being addressed.

Case in point. The red locktite being used to secure the barrel to the pivot block on the Sub2000. One rapid fire session with a high cap mag, is all it takes to break the hold of the locktite, and voila, you now have a gun that allows the barrel to rotate.

They did finally address that issue, and since last September or so, the Sub2000 barrels are now pinned in place. Now if we can get them to come up with a decent front sight. :D
Is there documentation concerning this (I googled it and can't find anything)? I've had two Sub-2000's for many years now absent any problem with many rounds fired...? Point me to this "known-flaw" if you would be so kind.

-Cheers

[Dajerseyrat]

I put a magpull angle grip on it, and am waiting on a muzzle break for it. I was contemplating selling this gun to buy an AR, but screw it, Im gonna keep it and but the AR also.Shhhhhhh dont tell my wife...Also Ryan from Keltec is sending me a newly designed stronger fore end to try out on the gun as well as the special lug used to take off the nut at the end of the muzzle to put the muzzle break on =-) I will say this, now that the gun works right, i am in love with it all over again!!

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-05-16_19-39-22_927.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/pix199168338.jpg

And here is my shoulder after 50 rounds of 00 buck =-)
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/2012-04-12_09-08-25_758.jpg

[PT92]

That shoulder bruise pic strikes home with me. As I get older, I find myself shooting my semi-auto shotguns for multiple reasons, chief among them being the reduced recoil (as well as no need to laboriously pump the gun any more). Don't get me wrong, I still love my pumps but life seems to get shorter and shorter as well as more painful as we age :o and I no longer want my shoulder to look like hamburger or exert more energy via pump-action. When I was younger I saw litlle to no difference between the two different actions.

Back on topic, thanks for the info on the Kel-Tec as we need all we can get considering the scarcity of the model.

-Cheers

[Dajerseyrat]

Keltec just sent me a newly designed front stock to test out. They added structural supports to it to give is some more strength for the use of vertical for grips. I will be testing it soon and report back...

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/DSC_1355.jpg
Original



http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/DSC_1356.jpg
new one

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/mrcmotorsportsLLC/DSC_1354.jpg
side by side comparison

[50 Shooter]

Your shoulder is bruised because you're shooting it off your shoulder and not in the pocket of your shoulder. Move it over a couple inches and this should stop the bruising that you're getting.

[Zoogster]

I believe it was JShirley that was saying the one he handled at last year's Shotshow had a LOP a little long for them. And that they normally use the LOP the gun is listed as having on their other shotguns. (A standard which is already a little long for some people, which is why some youth stocks or other short stocks can be popular, especially on tactical guns where a more straight when aimed profile can be preferred. Even people that typically use a longer LOP on a hunting or clay gun can prefer slightly shorter LOP for ease of use in the type of defensive roles the KSG is geared towards.)



Yet if the LOP is too long on a bullpup with internals within the stock right next to the shoulder one cannot shorten it, which means the person will have to adjust how they hold it and make due instead.
That could put it further out on the shoulder where recoil has more impact.

[Youngster]

What's the effective reach to the forend on the KSG? it doesn't seem that long.

A lot of folks who're running a pistol grip shotgun seem to try to use the grip to push the gun away, which winds up just letting the gun get a running start at them apon recoil.

Using the grip to help keep the gun pulled into the shoulder works much better.

[danweasel]

Moral of the thread:

Hope you get a broke KSG. Then Kel-Tec will go through it with a fine-tooth comb and you will end up with one of the best ones out. And maybe some unreleased stuff too!

[Zoogster]

Good customer service should still always be commended, even if you would have rather not needed it to begin with.

It would appear many of KelTec's popular models get better after being released awhile.

They certainly do innovate and bring designs to market that make them a valuable asset to the firearm community.
Many gun manufacturers just stick with what has worked, decade after decade with very slight differences between models, and slight differences from other manufacturer's firearms.

Of course with innovation by a small company trying to market designs that are radical or unique at a reasonable price point it is to be expected the designs have flaws to be ironed out sometimes.
Many companies the size of KelTec just stick with copying some existing design, like AR-15s or 1911s or slight variations on existing 9mms. Perhaps one slightly unique design.
KelTec comes out with one new yet consistently desirable enough to peak the interest of many people on a regular basis. You have to appreciate that, even if the outcome is not always perfect, or initially there is some hiccups.

[schutzlowe]

While the quality control of the KSG and Kel-Tec may leave something to be desired, the OP probably should have waited for his issues to either be rectified or not before slamming Kel-Tec all over the place. He disparaged Kel-Tec customer support pretty quickly, and then two weeks later he is complimenting them. I hope he now goes back and updates all 10 forums to tell 'the rest of the story'.

I think we need to go back to something never really discussed, at least initially; namely what is the intended use? Was this supposed to be a patrol car gun? I doubt it as i assume most PDs have approved lists. So is it for home defense or as a SHTF weapon? I doubt most would pick a revolutionary design in its first production run from a company that has never made a shotgun before for either use. Sounds like it was a new gun with an uber 'cool factor' which is now, after some initial issues, is now running like a scalded dog.

In the end i think Keltec and the OP both got exactly what they intended. Sure there were some initial issues, but Keltec produced a revolutionary gun that is drawing a lot of attention. And the OP got a cool gun at a decent price, that they now appear happy with, with some extra doodads thrown in by Keltec for playing beta tester.

Sure, the gun was a broken POS initially. You paid a grand for beta junk, but really, what did you expect? It's flipping Keltec here, not Larue.

So in the end, what is the right use for this gun (or the RFB for that matter)? Sounds like it is a cool range toy until you put thousand rounds through it w/o incident. And even then i would probably take a close look at the internals to see how the gun is wearing. I saw someone on a another forum rave at the reliability of their RFB after a thousand rounds, and then he had a catastrophic failure (broken bolt or bolt-carrier linkage). He still raved about the reliability despite the gun going down hard after 1000 trouble free rounds. Sorry, in my book it's a toy until i can get about five times as many rounds through it before failure. Sure, cool gun,draws comments at the range,fun to shoot, yada, yada, yada. But it is not the gun that is going to stay loaded in the bedroom.

[schutzlowe]

Posted today, Guns America KSG range report;

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/kel-tec-ksg-15-round-shotgun-range-report/

[eddism]

glad i read this. i was bidding on one on gunbrokers. they are going for over $1500. sorry you had a bad experience. i watched jeff quinn's review of it and he seemed pleased and said it ran flawlessly. his review got me interested in getting one. now i have doubts and probably will pass on it for now.

[sign2]

I must have gotten lucky. i have a Sub 2000 .40 cal that runs without a tick. I also just recently purchased a KSG directly from Kel Tec and it runs with no problems at all. It is very accurate and holds a surprisingly tight pattern with buck. With slugs it is also above average accurate (out to 100 yards so far).

The only problems i had with this Shotgun were:

1. Initially I was jamming up the ejection port with my wrist as I am accustomed to "tucking in" when I shoot long arms. As soon as I adjusted to the ergonomics of the KSG failure to feed/extract/jams were gone.

2. I was short stroking the gun due to the nature of the KSG pump action needing a complete and firm stroke in order to complete the cycle.

As you can see ..the KSG itself was not the problem.. it was a training problem. As soon as I adjusted to the KSG it ran like a champ.

As far as i am concerned this shotgun is a tactical marvel.. it is light even with 15 rounds, it is versatile with its multi-round capability, It has a less perceived recoil than my 870 ( with a small limb-saver its actually quite easy on the shoulder).

Those that say that the KSG offers no real advantages over a conventional shotgun are spitting in the wind. This thing is an awesome weapon that can fit in a backpack.. an awesome "truck-gun".... an outstanding HD shotgun... and with its 18inch barrel you can still reach out and touch someone with slugs. All the tactical advantage of an SBR shotgun and none of the disadvantages.

[PT92]

I have multiple Kel-Tec products and cannot complain. Good quality hardware for a reasonable price to be sure.

For civilian use I see the pump action much like I do the revolver in that it will forever be useful in both defensive and sporting capacities. However I don't see even the Kel-Tec KSG stopping the migration of both LE and Military over to the semi-auto shotgun.

--Happy Holidays

[signkutter]

I agree about the semi-auto migration. But i really cant compare any other semi-auto with the KSG atm. I am sure some enterprising company will make an awesome bullpup semi-auto shotgun in the future but I dont see one with 15 round capability showing anytime soon ( I wish it would/could).

I have a souped up/converted Saiga 12 from Lonestar Arms, its dependable as they come with an 18 inch barrel and a 12 round drum, it is pretty amazing... but in an HD setting or "truck Gun" setting I would rather have the KSG.

I really dont see why anybody would have trouble reloading it, let alone cutting their finger. I reload mine from the bottom with very little effort now.. all it takes is a bit of practice. Switching the tube selector is no problem either.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

However I don't see even the Kel-Tec KSG stopping the migration of both LE and Military over to the semi-auto carbine.


Fixed that for you. ;) I know many PDs that went from the pump shotgun to the semiauto rifle. One PD went to automatic shotguns and then to AR15s. Carbines are becoming king in the LE world of long guns.

[PT92]

Fixed that for you. ;) I know many PDs that went from the pump shotgun to the semiauto rifle. One PD went to automatic shotguns and then to AR15s. Carbines are becoming king in the LE world of long guns.
That's too funny as I was thinking the very same thing while posting...The SG (be it semi or pump) is definitely becoming more of a "relic" in terms of its once feared tactical prowess. However and truth be told, they never had much of a presence in the military outside of a few particularly defined roles (door breaching etc.). Conversely and as we all know they always played a prominent role in LE.

Not easy for me to accept its declinig influence to say the least as I am a life-long shotgun afficianado to be sure--but it's still too early to write their official "tactical obitiatiary" quite yet ;).

[Fred Fuller]

Fads are everywhere. They come and go.