personal weapons in afghanistan USAF


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paintballdude902
April 15, 2012, 07:49 PM
got talking with a Lt COL. i work with the other day. anyone know we can take a personal weapon when we deploy? i thought that was done away with a long time ago, but nope he showed me pictures of him and several other guys carrying glocks, sigs, even a 1911 while they fly while deployed.

pretty awesome, he said it comes down to the SQ commander so after you get authorization you will have to go to CATM and qualify with your personal weapon. i guess its not very common out side the flying world but us AFSOC guys dont have to much problem doing it. also had a Tsgt flight engineer tell me hes done it too.


pretty awesome

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Balrog
April 15, 2012, 07:53 PM
Yea it would be pretty neat as long as you aren't the guy trying to fit Beretta 92 mags and 9mm ammo into his Colt 1911.

Drail
April 15, 2012, 08:26 PM
I know that when I served back in the 70s in SEA (USAF Traveling Air Circus) there was a rule in "the book" that forbade personal weapons. I also know that once you got far enough "in country" no one really cared about the rule (except for some of the really dumb "gung ho" freshly turned out 2nd Lts. and a few senior staff weanies that you rarely had to deal with.) Getting it in and out of the theater is going to be your main problem. They checked our gear REAL thoroughly. I also imagine once you get there you'll find lots of weapons "for sale" by guys rotating back to the world. We were pretty much directed to "do whatever you need to do, just don't get caught and don't flaunt it." And yeah, your Sqdrn. Commander is pretty much God. First thing I would do is ask about availability of ammo. Finding .45 ACP ball might be easy in some areas or not. Good luck man.

altitude_19
April 15, 2012, 08:36 PM
Imma take a stab and say you ain't commissioned. The short answer is, you will always see your officers doing awesome crap you aren't allowed to. They are the cool kids and you aren't. Unless you personally know your squadron commander or have a SERIOUSLY good reason, they aren't signing that waiver for you. Personal preference is not a good enough reason to put a weapon afield that your commander cannot speak to the quality, maintenance, legality, or effectiveness of.

25cschaefer
April 15, 2012, 08:42 PM
In the Army, it was up to the commander (usually brigade) and almost all say no. I guess there is a lot that can go wrong. I did run across a military intel unit in Iraq that were carrying personal AKs, AR15, Glocks, Sigs, ect. Even a MAC 10 clone with a stock.

jmr40
April 16, 2012, 12:23 AM
It is my understanding that unissued weapons that can be picked up once you get over there are quite common. Taking them back home when your tour is over is impossible so if you have something it is passed along to someone else when you leave. At least for average soldiers.

I'd bet the non-standard weapons seen carried did not go overseas with those AF personel and will not be allowed back into this country when they come back. They probably got permission to carry personal weapons they aquired after getting over there just like the Army and Marines do.

45bthompson
April 16, 2012, 12:34 AM
I regularly carried a single shot 12g pistol that I "picked up". I never for a second was tempted to bring it home. That would have at least cost me my stripes plus it was an impractical pos that wouldn't penetrate an ammo can with 00 at ten feet. It did look pretty badass sticking out of my kit though.

doc2rn
April 16, 2012, 01:42 AM
When I rotated into the C.A. the outgoing corpsman handed me a Colt 1911 and a spare mag. Along the way I picked up 4 more mags, and a few partial boxes of rounds. Company C.O. let it come back with us as, "original Marine Corps issue!" in the connex boxes. When we deployed again, it came with us, as a back up service piece, but we all carried it! I liked it better than the M9, and even was allowed to shoot quals with it.
We picked up alot of pieces like AKs and PPpsh's, we just had to either give them to our reliefs or have the bolts welded shut for souvenir returns. I will also guarantee you the Thompson we picked up in the former Yugo is still riding kit along with that 1911.
The classics never die they just fade into history!

scythefwd
April 16, 2012, 07:18 AM
We had a "no privately owned weapons" standing order when I went back in 02.

Nushif
April 16, 2012, 07:20 AM
We had a "no privately owned weapons" standing order when I went back in 02.

That's all I've ever seen as well, both garrison and field wise.

Most of the claims as to anything else come usually from pre-Iraq and special squirrel operators.

Hacker15E
April 16, 2012, 09:04 AM
The fact is, CENTCOM General Order #1B has prohibited privately owned firearms in the CENTCOM AOR (which obviously includes Iraq and Afghanistan) ever since the 1990s.

I have seen it done in the USAF twice on deployments, and that was primarily because the Life Support Officer of the squadron (the one who was responsible for the squadron armory) was a "gun guy" and looked the other way for one aviator who wanted to bring a 1911 instead. They both risked potentially serious punishment by doing it.

Other than that, in the "regular" Air Force there is no way to have a privately owned firearm brought into theater for carry/use. Squadron Commanders certainly do not have authorization to over-ride or circumvent the orders signed by 4-Star Generals in charge of CENTCOM.

Grousefeather
April 16, 2012, 09:26 AM
I remember back in NKP Thailand, A-1 Skyraider and spotter plane pilots with a variety of pistols. Lots of Browning Hi-powers and one in particular guy, aussie bush hat and a ruger single action .44 mag in a custom holster, with handle bar mustache. That place was great.

Madcap_Magician
April 16, 2012, 11:41 AM
I would think flight crews would be able to get away with it more than those of us who go to and fro on charter flights flying through civilian airports.

moxie
April 16, 2012, 12:40 PM
The old days are...gone.

Today, private weapons are, like you said, "usually" the domain of aircrew members, special ops/PJs, but dependent on time and place.

SharpsDressedMan
April 16, 2012, 04:40 PM
I guess I'd be in trouble over there, as I have this acute sense of self-preservation that might include a sidearm if I felt the need, powers be damned. If they wanted to court-martial or Art15 me, that'd be o.k. And if they wanted to send me home because I didn't play well with the other kids, that'd be o.k., too. When you are are in a war, you should be in it to fight/win, and the tools should not be inhibited by some arbitrary regulation. As noted, SOME troops have the ok., some officers, have the o.k. If a grunt who goes in harm's way is somehow a second class citizen and isn't given the same opportunity to arm himself, then that is flat wrong.

jeepnik
April 16, 2012, 05:14 PM
I remember back in NKP Thailand, A-1 Skyraider and spotter plane pilots with a variety of pistols. Lots of Browning Hi-powers and one in particular guy, aussie bush hat and a ruger single action .44 mag in a custom holster, with handle bar mustache. That place was great.
When were you at NKP?

And yea, I saw some firearms were certainly "not" GI issue there and at few other airplane patches. I know of one Husky pilot that carried a Blackhawk or Superblackhawk can't remember which.

jeepnik
April 16, 2012, 05:22 PM
Someone mentioned "battle field" pickups. Both my boys managed to "locate" handguns quite rapidly once they were in Iraq and Afghanistan on their various tours.

Grunts that they were, they weren't authorized issued handguns. But they listened to me and, really more to my dad, that while they may never need it, it couldn't hurt. Push comes to shove, they could just toss it away and find another.

GI's know there are rules, and that the rules are often made by folks who will never have to live or die by them. And, most officers I met had some serious vision problems from time to time.

Grousefeather
April 16, 2012, 05:31 PM
Jeepnik, I was at Udorn 70/71, NKP 71/72 and again 74/75. Udorn I was in ABCCC, and NKP did Comm work.

jeepnik
April 16, 2012, 05:54 PM
Jeepnik, I was at Udorn 70/71, NKP 71/72 and again 74/75. Udorn I was in ABCCC, and NKP did Comm work.
NKP 72/73. We likely overlapped.

BSA1
April 16, 2012, 06:18 PM
I guess I'd be in trouble over there, as I have this acute sense of self-preservation that might include a sidearm if I felt the need, powers be damned. If they wanted to court-martial or Art15 me, that'd be o.k. And if they wanted to send me home because I didn't play well with the other kids, that'd be o.k., too. When you are are in a war, you should be in it to fight/win, and the tools should not be inhibited by some arbitrary regulation. As noted, SOME troops have the ok., some officers, have the o.k. If a grunt who goes in harm's way is somehow a second class citizen and isn't given the same opportunity to arm himself, then that is flat wrong.

I'd advise you to play with all the guns you can before you get shipped home for court martial. That Dishonorable Discharge will keep you from ever legally owning a gun again.

altitude_19
April 16, 2012, 07:38 PM
If a grunt who goes in harm's way is somehow a second class citizen and isn't given the same opportunity to arm himself, then that is flat wrong.

You're mistaken about the discussion here. It's not whether you should be able to arm yourself, it's whether you get to pick the hardware. With that comes many issues from effectiveness, to whether the weapon in question complies with the Law of Armed Conflict. I might find comfort in picking out my own handgun/rifle, but I find infinitely more comfort knowing my buddies are all carrying iron that uses the same ammo as mine, is identical to mine in configuration/function if I need to use it, and has parts that fit my weapon.

moxie
April 16, 2012, 08:10 PM
I was at Takhli in '73 after we left RVN, where we left all our "goodies" (including a lot of very primo small arms) with our South Vietnamese friends. We had F-111As at the time. Bombing Cambodia. The flying wing (474TFW) was there TDY; there were no private sidearms at Takhli.

Grousefeather
April 16, 2012, 09:30 PM
Jeepnick, which unit were you in?

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