The conundrum of the day.


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Sobel
April 16, 2012, 03:13 PM
I own a cz-82 and mn 91/30 and they are wonderful tho my cz has had quite a few failures to eject. Looking to the future I notice my 21st birthday and it has me rather excited for the opportunity to get my permit to carry concealed. The main issue is I have no funds and as it stands right now no manner in which to collect funds. I don't really know how trade ins work but would not mind trading in both of my current firearms for a handgun. I feel like my trade ins wouldn't get me enough store credit ( if thats how it works ) to get anything in 9mm other than a hi point. Any advice or ideas on what to do would be amazing Idk if this is posted in the right place either. ps. do gun shops take ammo? I have 300 rounds of 7.62x54r in a surplus can.

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General Geoff
April 16, 2012, 03:32 PM
Don't trade in your existing firearms just to purchase a more suitable carry gun. You'll regret it later in life, when reminiscing about your first guns. Plus trade-in value for those particular guns will not be very enticing.

Shoobee
April 16, 2012, 03:34 PM
I agree with the General. I wish I still had my original S&W model 39.

If a gun is not functioning right, take it to a gunsmith.

MrDig
April 16, 2012, 03:43 PM
Keep what you already have as the resale let alone the trade value are not all that great.
Generally a store will give you about 1/3 of the sale value, if you are lucky and have a good rapport with the owner you might get 1/2 the resale value.
Save your money and get a decent carry piece and keep the others for the fun of it.

Sobel
April 16, 2012, 03:44 PM
I agree with the General. I wish I still had my original S&W model 39.

If a gun is not functioning right, take it to a gunsmith.
well the problem is funds if i take it to a gunsmith thats more money i just don't have :/ the price of ammo for the cz is just too high as well. I totally understand sentimental value. As I was thinking of ways to somehow get a newer gun it kinda made me sad that I'd be giving up my first gun. I'm much less attached to the m/n and i feel if i could find someone who wanted an extra one to strap a scope onto it plus the ammo maybe I'd get some money.

ApacheCoTodd
April 16, 2012, 03:52 PM
Maybe you should lay some more facts on us for the extraction issue:

Degree of wear

Mags

Ammo

Consistency of failure

Quality of "successful" ejections

Photos of extractor/ejector

Does it fail with others shooting it?

All in all - I'd get the CZ working on your own if possible.

Sobel
April 16, 2012, 03:55 PM
Maybe you should lay some more facts on us for the extraction issue:

Degree of wear

Mags

Ammo

Consistency of failure

Quality of "successful" ejections

Photos of extractor/ejector

Does it fail with others shooting it?

All in all - I'd get the CZ working on your own if possible.
It failed with my friend as well , it seems that it will fire and as the casing is about to escape it gets caught by the rim just about every time. This doesn't always happen. It happens more often with the Fiocchi ammo. the sellier and bellot not as much. I wish i could take pictures but my laptops pretty busted.

ApacheCoTodd
April 16, 2012, 04:03 PM
No failures to feed?

Is the gun doing this when it's very, very clean also?

hermannr
April 16, 2012, 04:03 PM
That CZ-82 is a good carry weapon, concealed or open. If you do need it, and use it, and the police sieze it, you are not out a lot. If you have an expensive carry..it will hurt a lot more to have it seized.

As for ammo, if you are careful, 9X18 isn't any/or at least not much/ more expensive than 9mm Lugar.

First thing you need to do is diagnose what your ejection problem is, then fix it, or have it fixed. Go over on the CZ forum and start asking questions...my 82 works/has worked flawlessly/ so yours has something warn/broken...most things on that pistol are easy to fix, and relatively inexpensive.

Sobel
April 16, 2012, 04:05 PM
No failures to feed?

Is the gun doing this when it's very, very clean also?
Yes sir I always try my best to clean it, sometimes when I'm bored I just take it out and clean it to the best of my ability. Does that cause issues? Never a failure to feed its a nice gun it just has a flaw, that to me seems rather fatal if I need it to defend my life.

Sobel
April 16, 2012, 04:10 PM
That CZ-82 is a good carry weapon, concealed or open. If you do need it, and use it, and the police sieze it, you are not out a lot. If you have an expensive carry..it will hurt a lot more to have it seized.

As for ammo, if you are careful, 9X18 isn't any/or at least not much/ more expensive than 9mm Lugar.

First thing you need to do is diagnose what your ejection problem is, then fix it, or have it fixed. Go over on the CZ forum and start asking questions...my 82 works/has worked flawlessly/ so yours has something warn/broken...most things on that pistol are easy to fix, and relatively inexpensive.
Its a really nice gun , it really is. I hear a lot that the 9x18 just isn't enough. The ammo that seems like its supposed to be defense ammo is expensive the fmjs i get are around 20-24 for 50 that seems kinda expensive when I see 100 normal 9mm for the same price( wallyworld orlando fl ) .

ApacheCoTodd
April 16, 2012, 04:37 PM
OK - do you have any extreme marks from any of the following on your cases - especially the non-ejected ones:

Marks on the case exterior which might be caused by a chamber mar of some kind.

Unusual marks from the ejector on the base of the case

Displaced or missing metal from the engagement of the extractor

Also, the cost of a quality spare recoil spring is well worth it and may have an effect on the ejection issue. I don't have mine here but it seems the operating spring on my 83 - while able to be inserted in either direction - is in fact uni-directional.

Could be wrong but I'll check when I see it.

Manny
April 16, 2012, 04:43 PM
I always see posts where folks recommend these types of guns when newbies are looking to purchase for the first time because they are cheap. I think this is a text book example of why that is NOT a good way to start out. Instead of having one decent and common gun that almost anyone can work on, you've got a virtually non-functional pistol not worth much that will bring a pittance if he gets rid of it and a hard kicking rifle that may be a poor peasants wet dream but is a very poor choice for a new shooter that is also not worth much.

Private sale would be the way to go on getting rid of these, the ammo too. Look for a gun show in your area and show up, folks with cash will be willing to take them off your hands, though I wouldn't expect to get much. Take that money, sit on it and do whatever is needed to add to it and purchase a better quality weapon in a common caliber such as 9mm or .38 special.

Maybe not what you want to hear, but the best advice I can offer.

Sobel
April 16, 2012, 04:44 PM
OK - do you have any extreme marks from any of the following on your cases - especially the non-ejected ones:

Marks on the case exterior which might be caused by a chamber mar of some kind.

Unusual marks from the ejector on the base of the case

Displaced or missing metal from the engagement of the extractor

Also, the cost of a quality spare recoil spring is well worth it and may have an effect on the ejection issue. I don't have mine here but it seems the operating spring on my 83 - while able to be inserted in either direction - is in fact uni-directional.

Could be wrong but I'll check when I see it.
nothing seems messed up on the casings at all it seems like it should work perfectly fine. The Fiocchi ammo is like 90 something grains could it not be enough to force the slide back enough? So that it isn't completely back and snaps back too quickly and catches em by the rim ?Could that be remedied by say more grains of powder? Im not entirely sure as to how this business works. But, if I can figure all this out I'd want to try out some hollow points for it.

knoxy
April 16, 2012, 04:46 PM
Fix that CZ-82! ;)

Some things that might cause ejection issues:

Have you put a new recoil spring in the gun?
Wolff springs are cheap (less that $20 shipped) and simple to replace.

Is the extractor worn?
The extractor is a pretty easy fix, if you can find one. Some light filing to restore some grip on the extractor might help, if you're comfortable with that sort of thing.

Are you guys limp wristing it?

Sobel
April 16, 2012, 04:48 PM
Fix that CZ-82! ;)

Some things that might cause ejection issues:

Have you put a new recoil spring in the gun?
Wolff springs are cheap (less that $20 shipped) and simple to replace.

Is the extractor worn?
The extractor is a pretty easy fix, if you can find one. Some light filing to restore some grip on the extractor might help, if you're comfortable with that sort of thing.

Are you guys limp wristing it?
oh no I don't limp wrist it my friend might have but thats because hes an ogre of a guy and doesn't respect the power lol. I haven't put in a new spring I didn't know there was a reason to I figured you'd need one if the spring was super worn and the slide didn't return or something. Would that really fix the issue?

Sobel
April 16, 2012, 04:51 PM
I always see posts where folks recommend these types of guns when newbies are looking to purchase for the first time because they are cheap. I think this is a text book example of why that is NOT a good way to start out. Instead of having one decent and common gun that almost anyone can work on, you've got a virtually non-functional pistol not worth much that will bring a pittance if he gets rid of it and a hard kicking rifle that may be a poor peasants wet dream but is a very poor choice for a new shooter that is also not worth much.

Private sale would be the way to go on getting rid of these, the ammo too. Look for a gun show in your area and show up, folks with cash will be willing to take them off your hands, though I wouldn't expect to get much. Take that money, sit on it and do whatever is needed to add to it and purchase a better quality weapon in a common caliber such as 9mm or .38 special.

Maybe not what you want to hear, but the best advice I can offer.
Oh I like the rifle the recoil helps me remember I'm shooting something that destroys things. It isn't like they are boxes of garbage. I know it wasn't something really expensive but at least it wasn't a hi-point . :D Then I'd have a real problem.

B!ngo
April 16, 2012, 06:35 PM
When was the last time that you bought/shot fresh ammo for the CZ? That and going on line where the CZ folks hang out sound like the first steps. If that fails, please just take it to a gunsmith. I would not try to fix it yourself if you're planning to carry it. You don't sound like an experienced gunsmith or armorer and you'll really need this thing to work.
But I would keep it.

TurtlePhish
April 16, 2012, 06:49 PM
You really won't get much at all for the Mosin. It's better to keep it and enjoy it- the fun of having it is worth more than the rather low resale value, unless it's a rare or special one.

Sobel
April 17, 2012, 02:58 AM
I shot it within the last two weeks with some fiocchi ammo I don't think it was that old. I got that box when I got the gun so maybe a year or 2 ago? Does that much time really degrade the ammo? I could try and find a gunsmith but idk if I'll be able to.

Sobel
April 17, 2012, 03:02 AM
You really won't get much at all for the Mosin. It's better to keep it and enjoy it- the fun of having it is worth more than the rather low resale value, unless it's a rare or special one.
It just an average 1942 gun that spent time in the Ukraine getting re-arsenaled ( I don't know if that is the term ) It has " matching " serial numbers. Not sure if they just made them all match by changing them or not.

shuvelrider
April 17, 2012, 04:22 AM
Get a job, if needed then get a second job to bank that money specifically to your NEW gun fund. Then buy as good as you can afford or feel like spending.
Any gun is fixable if you throw enough money at it, you have to decide if it's worth it. At least try different ammo, that gun just might not like a certain brand or type of ammo, semi's can be like that.
By banking some green, it will give you time to check out different models and to do your homework on the best deal for yourself.

Manny
April 17, 2012, 08:35 AM
Oh I like the rifle the recoil helps me remember I'm shooting something that destroys things. It isn't like they are boxes of garbage. I know it wasn't something really expensive but at least it wasn't a hi-point . :D Then I'd have a real problem.

To each their own, but a working Hi-point would be my pick over a non functioning CZ.... I can't abide things that don't work, especially something as serious as a gun.

Sobel
April 17, 2012, 10:27 AM
Get a job, if needed then get a second job to bank that money specifically to your NEW gun fund. Then buy as good as you can afford or feel like spending.
Any gun is fixable if you throw enough money at it, you have to decide if it's worth it. At least try different ammo, that gun just might not like a certain brand or type of ammo, semi's can be like that.
By banking some green, it will give you time to check out different models and to do your homework on the best deal for yourself.
It would be nice to get a job certainly. Tho my situation denies me that ability. Simply because of where I am in relation to jobs. Also the heat plays quite a roll due to Florida's delightful heat and my sensitivity to the sun. But, if I could find a job that wasn't more than 3-4 miles away I would get myself a job.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 17, 2012, 10:34 AM
If you're not readily able to get yourself a carry pistol, I'd look at it as you're not ready.

1. You said you didn't have a job, or any means to collect the funds-
If this is the case, how will you afford ammunition for practice? How're you able to pay for maintenance? Cleaning supplies?

2. You will end up regretting selling or trading the firearms you have, especially when you're losing two to gain one.

Just wait until you get a job, and start saving. I don't even have my carry permit yet, and I've had pistols since last year. It's because I have other things that need my money sooner.

Sobel
April 17, 2012, 11:14 AM
If you're not readily able to get yourself a carry pistol, I'd look at it as you're not ready.

1. You said you didn't have a job, or any means to collect the funds-
If this is the case, how will you afford ammunition for practice? How're you able to pay for maintenance? Cleaning supplies?

2. You will end up regretting selling or trading the firearms you have, especially when you're losing two to gain one.

Just wait until you get a job, and start saving. I don't even have my carry permit yet, and I've had pistols since last year. It's because I have other things that need my money sooner.
I suppose your right , but even before the ccw issue the fact that my handgun doesn't work correctly right now means I'm defenseless in my own home. I live in an apartment complex and the mosin will fly through lots of stuff i know the cz will too but it seems like a much lesser evil.

Furncliff
April 17, 2012, 11:23 AM
I bought my CZ82 on Gunbroker. It had problems. The gun smiths at CZUSA did a great job working out the kinks and now it shoots like a new gun. Highly recommended. Call, don't email them. They are friendly and helpful, not at all what we've come to expect from customer service at other gun makers.

HoosierQ
April 17, 2012, 11:30 AM
Frankly, I am all for trading up and moving on when the time is right. Yes, I have divested of guns I wish I had not. Divested of a Mini-14 when money was tight...regretted the heck out of not having a semi-auto .223...UNTIL I bought an AR...regret over.

Divested of a GP100 and regretted that...UNTIL I bought a 627...regret over (although in this case I paid way too much for the 627 and other than 8 over 6 shots really doesn't do anything better than the GP100...trigger is better).

Divested of all my commie milsurps and funded other gun purchases. Some folks will disagree and it's up to each individual, but barring some sort of real collector or sentimental item, a gun collection is a fluid, dynamic thing.

If you could divest of the two guns you've got via private sale, save a couple bucks back, you could purchase a Glock 19, a Ruger SR9c, a S&W M&P, a good used Sig...whatever...and have a more modern pistol in a very common caliber. Gun sale regrets are not one of life's bigger regrets. I mean don't sell a Savage 99 for a Glock :what: ...or a vintage SAA or something...but commie guns...easy come, easy go I say.

shuvelrider
April 17, 2012, 11:32 AM
That's a tough one then, figure a way to work from home then. Hopefully you have wheels of some sort, think outside of the box. We don't know your entire story, not anybody's business to ask. Maybe get certified in some public/social service skill, drive a bus, hire on as an bug exterminator. Just trying to be helpful, best of luck then.

Sobel
April 17, 2012, 11:37 AM
That's a tough one then, figure a way to work from home then. Hopefully you have wheels of some sort, think outside of the box. We don't know your entire story, not anybody's business to ask. Maybe get certified in some public/social service skill, drive a bus, hire on as an bug exterminator. Just trying to be helpful, best of luck then.
Thank you sir. I'll try and figure something out.

Sobel
April 17, 2012, 11:39 AM
Frankly, I am all for trading up and moving on when the time is right. Yes, I have divested of guns I wish I had not. Divested of a Mini-14 when money was tight...regretted the heck out of not having a semi-auto .223...UNTIL I bought an AR...regret over.

Divested of a GP100 and regretted that...UNTIL I bought a 627...regret over (although in this case I paid way too much for the 627 and other than 8 over 6 shots really doesn't do anything better than the GP100...trigger is better).

Divested of all my commie milsurps and funded other gun purchases. Some folks will disagree and it's up to each individual, but barring some sort of real collector or sentimental item, a gun collection is a fluid, dynamic thing.

If you could divest of the two guns you've got via private sale, save a couple bucks back, you could purchase a Glock 19, a Ruger SR9c, a S&W M&P, a good used Sig...whatever...and have a more modern pistol in a very common caliber. Gun sale regrets are not one of life's bigger regrets. I mean don't sell a Savage 99 for a Glock :what: ...or a vintage SAA or something...but commie guns...easy come, easy go I say.
That is probably my best bet. Finding people who want to buy is rather difficult. Seems like everyone I know has a bunch of guns all of which are more modern than any I have. Some fellow said he would like my 91/30 so he could put a scope on it and he hasn't contacted me beyond the initial conversation.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 17, 2012, 05:19 PM
I suppose your right , but even before the ccw issue the fact that my handgun doesn't work correctly right now means I'm defenseless in my own home. I live in an apartment complex and the mosin will fly through lots of stuff i know the cz will too but it seems like a much lesser evil.

Just because it's not functioning 100% of the time doesn't mean you're defenseless. I seen someone recommended you to another website for your CZ. I would recommend it to, as someone might know a simple fix for you that would cost nothing.

I know what you're going through, I've been unemployed since last August, and just finally got on at another job. Was working at a bar/grill, but that just made my cigarettes appear. I got a job now where I'm working steadily.

I lucked out with my last pistol purchase. Got most of my payable-as-of-now fines paid, had a little money left over, and my buddy had a Glock 22 for sale that he only wanted $175 for. I lucked out, and it's a Gen 4 LNIB, so call it luck.

I have an Astra A-90 that I got as my first pistol, and believe me, I know unreliable. I need to find replacement magazine springs before I can totally trust it, but with some WWB or Winchester NATO, it's reliable, even with the mag spring problem.

northark147
April 17, 2012, 08:12 PM
I know it wasn't something really expensive but at least it wasn't a hi-point . Then I'd have a real problem.

I have a C9, a HP40, and a 995. I can't remember ever having pulled the trigger on any of them without hearing a bang, and seeing a hole appear in the target afterwards. Of course I wouldn't carry wither of the pistols since I have much nicer ones, but I don't get the at least it isn't High Point crap.

On other notes it cost about 200 dollars ish to get a permit where I live. How do you plan on coming up with that money without a job? a Good gun belt cost at least 60, about the same for a good holster. It seems to me as if you have worse things to worry about than finding/paying for the gun itself.

Sobel
April 18, 2012, 12:44 AM
I have a C9, a HP40, and a 995. I can't remember ever having pulled the trigger on any of them without hearing a bang, and seeing a hole appear in the target afterwards. Of course I wouldn't carry wither of the pistols since I have much nicer ones, but I don't get the at least it isn't High Point crap.

On other notes it cost about 200 dollars ish to get a permit where I live. How do you plan on coming up with that money without a job? a Good gun belt cost at least 60, about the same for a good holster. It seems to me as if you have worse things to worry about than finding/paying for the gun itself.
Those things would hopefully/likely come with my birthday. If they didn't I would try to find some way of getting all the things to come together.

Godsgunman
April 18, 2012, 03:27 PM
First off, I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet, but you are getting ripped off on your ammo prices for your CZ. I have an 82 also and absolutely love it. It is for a fact the most reliable gun I've owned. As far as ammo goes NEVER buy from a LGS because they see it as a "specialty" item and severly over charge. Either go online to cheaperthandirt.com or go to a gun show and get silver bear or brown bear for $12 to $13 a box. Also they are 94 grain which in my opinion, the problem seems to me that the Foichi isn't packing enough umph to blow the slide far enough back to properly eject the spent case. If that doesnt work then replace the spring.
Secondly don't let anyone fill your head with the hogwash that 9x18 isn't a viable SD round. There is no "magic caliber" with "knock down" power. The 9x18 has enough power to get the job done. I trust it enough to be one of my carry guns. I'm sure I'll be argued with but 90% is shot placement and 10% is size of the projectile in my personal opinion.
After you work out the kink's with better ammo and maybe a new spring, get confident and efficient with your CZ. They are great guns. Once you get some employment and some funds to live off of, if you think you absolutely MUST have a different firearm then go for it. Don't be in a hurry to ditch the CZ it'll probably be something you'll regret in the long run.

Sobel
April 19, 2012, 01:05 AM
First off, I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet, but you are getting ripped off on your ammo prices for your CZ. I have an 82 also and absolutely love it. It is for a fact the most reliable gun I've owned. As far as ammo goes NEVER buy from a LGS because they see it as a "specialty" item and severly over charge. Either go online to cheaperthandirt.com or go to a gun show and get silver bear or brown bear for $12 to $13 a box. Also they are 94 grain which in my opinion, the problem seems to me that the Foichi isn't packing enough umph to blow the slide far enough back to properly eject the spent case. If that doesnt work then replace the spring.
Secondly don't let anyone fill your head with the hogwash that 9x18 isn't a viable SD round. There is no "magic caliber" with "knock down" power. The 9x18 has enough power to get the job done. I trust it enough to be one of my carry guns. I'm sure I'll be argued with but 90% is shot placement and 10% is size of the projectile in my personal opinion.
After you work out the kink's with better ammo and maybe a new spring, get confident and efficient with your CZ. They are great guns. Once you get some employment and some funds to live off of, if you think you absolutely MUST have a different firearm then go for it. Don't be in a hurry to ditch the CZ it'll probably be something you'll regret in the long run.
I really like your advice sir. But, I have found a friend who is willing to buy both of my firearms for $300. So now I'm in the process of looking for work and trying to find a good new handgun. I've never owned a new gun at all. What is a good handgun for around 300 to 350?

gotboostvr
April 19, 2012, 06:40 AM
What is a good handgun for around 300 to 350?

There is literally a vast plethora of good, quality used (and a few new) firearms in that price range. I've picked up a 1911, and 2 nice K frame revolvers (4"19-3 and a 2" 64-5) within that price range and they're my three favorites, I do like my HK P7, just not quite as much especially when you factor in cost!

For a carry pistol, a used J frame (small 5 shot revolver) would be great, you should be able to find one without too much trouble as long as you're either A: not picky (about specific grips, finish etc, don't over pay for a old beater) or B: patient.

If you're into semi auto's you should also be able to find a used Glock in that price range. The police trade in's are great deals, but typically only full sized.

Best advice I can give is go to a few gun shows and handle as many as you can to see what fits right, which sights you like, which grips you want and if possible, bring a friend/realitive that's more knowledgeable than you. Buy what you want though, let them "steer" you, not "push" you into a purchase.

Good luck!

Sobel
April 19, 2012, 07:40 AM
There is literally a vast plethora of good, quality used (and a few new) firearms in that price range. I've picked up a 1911, and 2 nice K frame revolvers (4"19-3 and a 2" 64-5) within that price range and they're my three favorites, I do like my HK P7, just not quite as much especially when you factor in cost!

For a carry pistol, a used J frame (small 5 shot revolver) would be great, you should be able to find one without too much trouble as long as you're either A: not picky (about specific grips, finish etc, don't over pay for a old beater) or B: patient.

If you're into semi auto's you should also be able to find a used Glock in that price range. The police trade in's are great deals, but typically only full sized.

Best advice I can give is go to a few gun shows and handle as many as you can to see what fits right, which sights you like, which grips you want and if possible, bring a friend/realitive that's more knowledgeable than you. Buy what you want though, let them "steer" you, not "push" you into a purchase.

Good luck!
Thank you I'll have to see when the next Orlando gun show comes around. I see a bunch of rugers and kel tecs and even a kahr but im not sure if they are good or not.

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