Hatfields & McCoys History Channel Lots of smoke


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Moose26
April 17, 2012, 01:54 PM
Memorial Day starts a 3 part mini series. Lots of smoke poles.

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Moose26
April 17, 2012, 01:59 PM
OOPS, Hatfields - enough error to cause a fight.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
April 17, 2012, 02:26 PM
Looks like it might be good. I will tune in.

Saddlebag Preacher
April 17, 2012, 04:01 PM
Looking forward to it also. Have some family history with that fued, actually my step father's side, so my sister really has the blood connection on the West Virginia side. Have an aquaintance who handled the reenactors for the back ground people.

Costner came to Ft. Knox last week and did a speech and a song (didn't know he had an album, but he does) for some of our folks killed overseas. Seems a good guy, but boy is he tall!

4v50 Gary
April 18, 2012, 01:38 PM
The Hatfields and McCoys feuded in the late 1880s. They used Winchesters and revolvers. Those hillbillys of Kentucky (McCoys) and West Virginia (Hatfields) were not ignorant when it came to weapons technology. If ARs or AKs were around then, they'd use those too.

Moose26
April 18, 2012, 03:03 PM
1865: Former Union soldier Asa Harman McCoy killed January 7, 1865 probably by the 'Logan Wildcats' led by Jim Vance.

1878: Bill Staton (nephew of Randolph McCoy not shown on family tree) was killed in 1878 as revenge for testifying for Floyd Hatfield in his trial for stealing a McCoy hog. Shot by Sam McCoy-nephew of Randolph McCoy Sr.

1882: Ellison Hatfield is mortally wounded in a fight with Tolbert, Pharmer, and Randolph McCoy, Jr. on August 7, 1882, dying two days later on August 9.

1882: Tolbert McCoy tied to pawpaw trees & killed as revenge for Ellison Hatfield's shooting/stabbing on August 9, 1882, the day Ellison died.

1882: Pharmer McCoy tied to pawpaw trees & killed as revenge for Ellison Hatfield's shooting/stabbing on August 9, 1882, the day Ellison died.

1882: Randolph McCoy Jr. tied to pawpaw trees & killed as revenge for Ellison Hatfield's shooting/stabbing on August 9, 1882, the day Ellison died.

1886: 'Jeff McCoy' killed fall of 1886 following his murder of mail carrier Fred Wolford, shot by "Cap" Hatfield

1888: Alifair McCoy killed January 1, 1888 at Randolph's house by 9 attackers led by Jim Vance. The attackers failed in their attempt to eliminate witnesses against them.

1888: Calvin McCoy killed January 1, 1888 at Randolph's house by 9 attackers led by Jim Vance. The attackers failed in their attempt to eliminate witnesses against them.

1888: January 7-Jim Vance killed by Frank Phillips

1888: January 18-Bill Dempsey killed by Jeff McCoy and Frank Phillips

1890: Ellison Mounts was hanged on February 18, 1890 for Alifair's murder.

4v50 Gary
April 18, 2012, 03:07 PM
Great timeline Moose26. I didn't know the first killing was in 1865.


Alifair was a 16 year old girl when she was killed. It hit the national newspapers and outraged a lot of city people about the backwoods feud.

Deltaboy
April 19, 2012, 11:12 PM
It is a legendary feud dating back to the Civil War.

littleguns223
April 20, 2012, 12:20 AM
This will be very interesting to watch. Will tune in.

Smokepole14
April 20, 2012, 10:13 AM
This will be very interesting to watch. Will tune in.


Yeah definitely will watch, besides the 58 remmy on the front advertisement hooked me:D. BP is a very addicting disease lol

sleepyone
April 20, 2012, 11:20 AM
Looks like the McCoys got kilt lots more than the Hatfields. I score it 8-4 in favor of the Hatfields. However, the McCoys finished what the Hatfields started.

Gatofeo
April 21, 2012, 05:13 AM
History Channel had an interesting 1-hour documentary on this feud some years back.
As I recall, the conclusion was reached that most of it was inflamed by sensationalized reporting from the northern newspapers. Much of it was exaggerated, so the documentary claimed.
But your timeline sure refutes that. Interesting.

I don't think this series on the feud is by accident. The proliferation of, "Let's Watch Dumb Rednecks Do Stupid Things" shows on TV, particularly the misnamed History Channel, is disgusting.
If the media portrayed blacks, chicanos, asians or even Episcopalians as unfairly and prejudicial as they did rural people, there would be a hue and cry.
It's almost minsterel show, the way they portray rural residents.

I certainly won't look for objectivity from this Hatfield/McCoy series. It's just another opportunity for urban dwellers to assert their superiority over rural residents, point and laugh at the "rubes."

4v50 Gary
April 21, 2012, 11:39 AM
1888 was supposed to have been the big shoot out where numerous Hatfields and their supporters were killed and Anse "Devil" Hatfield's spirit was broken.

If anyone thinks those hillbillys are stupid, those hillbillys can point to urban gangs who fight over colors and turf - housing projects, or glares or perceived slights. Now that's dumb.

Ex
April 21, 2012, 12:12 PM
Interesting that this thread comes up. I have the blood of both familys.

bikerdoc
April 21, 2012, 01:02 PM
Though not related, my wife's family traces back to that part of KY, and mine to that part of WV. I too resent hillbilly, redneck, jokes.

Moose26
April 21, 2012, 10:43 PM
My wife's mothers family all were in the Summersville, WV area. We visited the area and Grandma warned us to stay away from some places even today.

JN01
April 21, 2012, 11:14 PM
I don't think this series on the feud is by accident. The proliferation of, "Let's Watch Dumb Rednecks Do Stupid Things" shows on TV, particularly the misnamed History Channel, is disgusting.
If the media portrayed blacks, chicanos, asians or even Episcopalians as unfairly and prejudicial as they did rural people, there would be a hue and cry.
It's almost minsterel show, the way they portray rural residents.

+1000

I wish all that "reality" crap would run its course and go away.

Deltaboy
April 22, 2012, 11:43 PM
All I will say to you folks making the dumb redneck comments don't go out in them areas and say that. At the least you will get a busted mouth, knifed or shot.

meef
April 24, 2012, 10:46 AM
All I will say to you folks making the dumb redneck comments don't go out in them areas and say that. At the least you will get a busted mouth, knifed or shot.::Jeff Foxworthy voice::

If you tend to punch, knife or shoot people that offend you - you just might be a redneck.

:cool:

Pulp
April 24, 2012, 11:30 AM
Well, if I was in the area, I think I'd stay away from pawpaw trees! Seems to be a dangerous tree to be around.:D

Just think, if the society fixers of the day had outlawed pawpaw trees, some of those folks might still be alive! But then I reckon the Bambi lovers of the day would have protested the removal of the pawpaw trees, and a new feud would have developed.

buggley
April 24, 2012, 02:40 PM
i heard of that war.... something about them kentuckys throwing dynomite across the river and us west virginians lighting it and throwing it back.

jon_in_wv
April 24, 2012, 08:08 PM
Though not related, my wife's family traces back to that part of KY, and mine to that part of WV. I too resent hillbilly, redneck, jokes.

West Virginians don't take offense to the term "redneck" or "hillbilly". The history of those words make them proud to claim both titles. Its the ignorance of history from the people calling them the names they would resent.

bikerdoc
April 24, 2012, 08:59 PM
Its the ignorance of history from the people calling them the names they would resent.


Your right jon. You said what I was trying to say.

I like Deltaboy's comment.

The Red Hot Rider
April 24, 2012, 09:52 PM
i heard of that war.... something about them kentuckys throwing dynomite across the river and us west virginians lighting it and throwing it back.
Wellllll.....that's not quite EXACTLY how it went. I actually live in Pike County, KY...where most of the feuding and violence happened. As a matter of fact, I wrote a book about the feud.

I will not be so "low road" as to make comments as obviously trollish as yours. Suffice to say, I doubt that there are many people around this neck of the KY/WV border, on either side, that would make such comments outside of their own home. It's been a long time since the last of the killings, but some wounds only scab over without ever fully healing.

Eastern KY and Southern West Virginia might as well be the same state, culturally speaking. Both areas are homes to Appalachian people. There's lots of pride in mountain people, and comments like the above can do NO good. As a matter of fact, it's just poking a hornet's nest. Plenty of Kentuckians AND West Virginians died in that conflict, and for someone to make comments like that is provocative and disrespectful of the people who died in the feud.

Actually, your comment reveals some ignorance about the feud on your part. The feud wasn't necessarily based on KY vs WV sentiment. It sprang from a mountain culture of honor and old resentments from The Civil War. Nor was it as simple as Hatfields versus McCoys. Hatfields and McCoys were intermarried, as a matter of fact. It was more like a question of "Do you support Randall, or do you support Anse?".

If you want a pretty good idea of what mountain culture was/is like, in my humble opinion, watch a movied called "Matewan". You'll be glad you did...great movie.

So, to wrap it up, before people make provocative comments like "...them kentuckys throwing dynomite across the river and us west virginians lighting it and throwing it back" (notice I'm not commenting on the poor grammar, erroneous spelling, and lack of punctuation...high road, you know), they should find out what they are talking about first and consider the implications of their statement. It would make them seem less "trollish".

Curator
April 24, 2012, 11:02 PM
Wana know what fuels the Shiite vs, Suni or Orangemen vs Cathotics? Here it is: Hatfield vs. McCoys, North vs. South. What's next, Normans vs. Saxons, Neandrethals vs. Cro-Magnon? Come-on folks let it rest! Forgive your enemies; it will make them go crazy!

Donny
April 25, 2012, 09:55 AM
Looks like an interesting show. Now if I can get the wife to watch it too. I already torment her with my large collection of westerns on DVD.:evil:

Don

buggley
April 25, 2012, 03:42 PM
guess grammer is 1 thing you got over us :D just poking ribs no reason to fired up over something that realy has no bearing over 99% of us.
sounded like only one person on here had reason to bring any animocity, region and boold is very different playing field.

junkman_01
April 25, 2012, 05:29 PM
Sounds like a fun show! :D

bikerdoc
April 25, 2012, 05:50 PM
buggley,

I reviewed all 26 of your posts and you seem to be nice gun guy, family man, and have a small gun related. business. You live in West Virginia. I dont get it, then again I dont have to.

The red hot rider got it right.

stay safe and God bless,

Doc

buggley
April 25, 2012, 10:36 PM
just pokin no harm ment i apologize for not keeping it to my self, it wont happen any more.

The Red Hot Rider
April 26, 2012, 11:18 AM
No harm, no foul. I apologize as well. We're all on the same 2A team.

bikerdoc
April 26, 2012, 11:37 AM
Can i get in on this group hug? :) Since I may have been harsh also.

SleazyRider
April 26, 2012, 11:46 AM
If you want a pretty good idea of what mountain culture was/is like, in my humble opinion, watch a movied called "Matewan". You'll be glad you did...great movie.

Just downloaded and watched "Matewan," and you're spot on. Great movie! Thanks for the suggestion!

The Red Hot Rider
April 26, 2012, 03:08 PM
Just downloaded and watched "Matewan," and you're spot on. Great movie! Thanks for the suggestion!
Sleazy,

How 'bout that scene towards the end of the movie where Sid Hatfield shot those two Baldwin-Felts agents at the same time? That gun battle is called "The Matewan Massacre" to this day. You can find plenty of info about it on the internet.

I'm glad you liked the flick.

The Red Hot Rider
April 26, 2012, 03:09 PM
Can i get in on this group hug? :) Since I may have been harsh also.
Biker,

Ummmmm....how 'bout a firm handshake 'til I get to know you better?...lol

bikerdoc
April 27, 2012, 07:18 AM
Ummmmm....how 'bout a firm handshake 'til I get to know you better?...lol

LOL, OK :)

We are taking the grand kids to the area this summer to show them thier roots, I will PM you and dinner is on me.

buggley
April 27, 2012, 10:42 AM
this is as bad as bringing flowers to the proctologyst

bikerdoc
April 27, 2012, 05:53 PM
Bug, you remind me of my uncle in Hinton, he is not right either. :) Will try to hook up with you also.

SleazyRider
April 27, 2012, 11:07 PM
Sleazy,

How 'bout that scene towards the end of the movie where Sid Hatfield shot those two Baldwin-Felts agents at the same time? That gun battle is called "The Matewan Massacre" to this day. You can find plenty of info about it on the internet.

I'm glad you liked the flick.
The movie was incredibly well directed, with a remarkable sense of place. The gun fight in particular left me wondering what was accurately portrayed and what was not. Suffice it to say that I'm not finished with my investigation of this tragic event.

The Red Hot Rider
April 27, 2012, 11:14 PM
Oh, I'm sure they took plenty of artistic license with the gun battle and lots of events from the whole conflict. If that interested you and got you going, research the Battle of Blair Mountain in West Virginia. Also, there's a History Channel documentary called "Hillbilly", I believe. It's hosted by Billy Ray Cyrus, but it's still a good documentary.

It's good to see someone else interested. I thought I was the only one. I went to Matewan not too long ago (only about an hour from me). There is a museum there worth seeing if you are ever down our way.

SleazyRider
April 28, 2012, 12:02 AM
So far, the most detailed description of the event I found here: http://joeroxby.com/article_sidhatfield.html , but I did not check its references or primary sources. I plan to visit the area this fall.

cheatin charlie
April 28, 2012, 06:41 AM
The most interesting part of this thread was the mention of pawpaw trees.
When we went back to WV to visit grandma I remember dad stopping the
car and getting some ripe pawpaw's from a tree. That had to have been
50 years ago. He died in 1968, thanks for bring a warm memory back.

The Red Hot Rider
April 28, 2012, 10:11 AM
Sleazy,

Please let me know when you make your trip to my neck of the woods. I would be more than happy to show you around. I can show you the combatants' graves and some other interesting sights related to the feud.

The Red Hot Rider
April 28, 2012, 10:14 AM
LOL, OK :)

We are taking the grand kids to the area this summer to show them thier roots, I will PM you and dinner is on me.
That sounds great. I would be more than happy to show the stuff I mentioned in my reply to Sleazy to you and yours as well. It's actually pretty engrossing stuff.

Ditchtiger
April 28, 2012, 11:51 AM
+1000

I wish all that "reality" crap would run its course and go away.
The sooner the better.

SleazyRider
April 30, 2012, 09:05 AM
Sleazy,

Please let me know when you make your trip to my neck of the woods. I would be more than happy to show you around. I can show you the combatants' graves and some other interesting sights related to the feud.
That is very generous of you, Red Hot Rider, an offer I will take you up on. In the meantime, I want to educate myself about he feud. I'm aware of the references in your most excellent treatise on the feud; but if you had to pick just one or two---not necessarily scholarly works, yet informed---which would they be?

And as a general interest item for all the membership: the character Sid Hatfield is worth reading up on, a genuine, dyed-in-the-wool, 2-gun toting lawman who was a central figure in the Matewan (pronounced MATE-wan, I believe) Massacre.

walk soft
April 30, 2012, 10:44 AM
I'm a direct descendant of Frank Phillips,am from there(19 years),own land there(far eastern Pike Co.) and have read about it and watched the documentarys,so yeah I'm looking forward to it.

walk soft
April 30, 2012, 10:54 AM
It's funny, most people don't know what a Paw Paw is.The memory it brings back for me is crossing Paw Paw mountain from KY into VA to buy beer from a bootlegger.Then later to buy it legally on Sundays.There were three mountains to cross from where I lived to buy beer(underaged),all three were dirt and rough.We took this route because we only had to cross the paved(patrolled) roads in a couple spots. We would then drink on the way back and didn't usually make it farther than the top of the second mountain wher we'd build a fire and get drunk and pass out til morning.

Carl N. Brown
April 30, 2012, 11:17 AM
A lot of the history of Matewan got written by the "winning" side--the coal companies and Northern syncophants of big money--especially some of the accusations against Sid Hatfield by the Baldwin-Felts.

Two of the stories you hear about Sid Hatfield, who stood up to the Baldwin-Felts detectives, coal company thugs, at Matewan are (a) he was not related to the Hatfield clan as he had claimed, and (b) that he, not Albert Felts, shot and killed mayor Testerman in order to marry his wife.

(a) Sid Hatfield's grandfather, Jeremiah Hatfield, was half-brother of Valentine Hatfield who was grandfather of "Devil Anse" William Anderson Hatfield who was head of the family during the Hatfield-McCoy feud.

(b) During the Battle of Matewan between the Baldwin-Felts detective agents for the coal company and police chief Hatfield, Mayor Cabell Testerman and townsfolk for the miners' union, Albert and Lee Felts were killed, along with five other Baldwin-Felts detectives and Mayor Testerman. Later, brother Thomas Felts and the Baldwin-Felts spy Charles Everett Lively claimed that Hatfield must have shot Testerman since Hatfield married Bessie Testerman soon after.

According to Bessie Testerman, her husband had asked Hatfield to take care of her if he were killed, because he had a premonition of doom. According to Hatfield and townfolk, Albert Felts shot Mayor Testerman.

The Baldwin Felts survivors assassinated Sid Hatfield when he went to the courthouse for an appearance. They knew he would be unarmed because the courthouse was a gun-free zone. Lively administered the coup-de-grace. Then they, the survivors, got to defame Hatfield's memory.

junkman_01
April 30, 2012, 12:33 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/Sidhatfield.jpg

The Red Hot Rider
April 30, 2012, 08:43 PM
That is very generous of you, Red Hot Rider, an offer I will take you up on. In the meantime, I want to educate myself about he feud. I'm aware of the references in your most excellent treatise on the feud; but if you had to pick just one or two---not necessarily scholarly works, yet informed---which would they be?

And as a general interest item for all the membership: the character Sid Hatfield is worth reading up on, a genuine, dyed-in-the-wool, 2-gun toting lawman who was a central figure in the Matewan (pronounced MATE-wan, I believe) Massacre.
Wow, Sleazy. Believe it or not, that's actually a tall order.

The actual details and facts of the feud are easy to gather from something as accessible as "wikipedia". I think we know all we are ever going to know about the actual events of the feud. To me, the fascination is the attempt to understand the mindset of the combatants.

Otis Rice's book about the feud is easy to find. There is one book, though, that I would particularly recommend. It is entitled: "Days of Darkness; The Feuds of Eastern Kentucky" by John Ed Pearce. It covers the Hatfield-McCoy Feud, but it also covers TONS of other Eastern Kentucky feuds, a few of which make the Hatfield-McCoy feud seem small potatoes in comparison when you consier the sheer amount of combatants killed. Also, it's hard to find, but if you could find the book "Squirrel Hunting Sam McCoy", it would be well worth the read, although it can be hard to read because it is from the handwritten memoirs of one of the McCoy participants in the feud. VERY worthwhile read.

The Hatfield-McCoy feud got more press because it caused a riffe between Kentucky and West Virgina because the combatants lived on either side of The Tug River, which divides the two states. The newspapers picked it up from there and a legend was born. There were far bloodier feuds in Appalachia, not to downplay the H-M feud, though.

If you read my dissertation, you know I believe it all boiled down to a southern "culture of honor". That same culture still pervades today, not only in Appalachia, but wherever there is property or resources to be had and disputed and there are people who have to maintain "face" in order to keep what they have.

I'm rambling on and on here. It's a subject near and dear to my heart. Let me now if I can be of any further assistance to you, OK?

bikerdoc
April 30, 2012, 08:45 PM
I alos am doing a lot of reading on the subject and also the Blair mountain battle as family oral history says my great uncle was killed their.

Some where I read something about Sid Hatfield that said he would fight at the drop of a hat and sometimes you didnt need a hat.

As an aside. Here is a notable quote from Eric Haney author of Inside Delta Force
on his mountain folk heritage "We are easily offended and prone to violence when offended. When the only thing you own is your sense of honor, you tend to protect it at all costs."

The Red Hot Rider
April 30, 2012, 10:58 PM
I think that quote is dead on the mark, biker.

Art Eatman
April 30, 2012, 11:14 PM
Quite a few sociologists have commented on the prevalence of the concept of honor in the southern states.

I'm rusty on the details, but IIRC, it ties back to the ancestry and the mores of Elizabethan times.

The Red Hot Rider
April 30, 2012, 11:25 PM
Well, actually, well before that, Art. It came out of agriculturalism. When people were hunter-gatherers, land and resources weren't fought for as much because, if you were muscled out of your territory, you could always hunt and gather more somewhere else.

BUT, if you have spent time and effort farming and raising livestock, to have them taken from you is likely to have much more deadly consequences for you. If someone steals your harvest or meat animals, then you are screwed royally come wintertime. So, you had better make sure no one steals from you or belittles you, which would make you seem an easy "mark" for others who wanted to take advantage of you or steal from you. In other words, think of Sean Connery's "Chicago way" speech to Costner(Ness) in "The Untouchables".

I guess the best way to say it would be that retaliation for slighted honor means you have demonstrated to the offender and to any others who would care to learn the lesson that you are not a person to be trifled with and there will certainly be repercussions for messing with you.

Niccolo Machiavelli outlines this much better than I can in a book called "The Prince". It was his treatise on ruling government and the use of show of force and other things every young dictator wanted to know but was afraid to ask.

Sorry if I get to rambling in these posts...

bikerdoc
May 1, 2012, 12:07 AM
I guess the best way to say it would be that retaliation for slighted honor means you have demonstrated to the offender and to any others who would care to learn the lesson that you are not a person to be trifled with and there will certainly be repercussions for messing with you.



To complicate matters in my family tree, my ancestors were the Italian immigrants to the mines, who not only accepted the local code, but brought with them the omerta, honorata, vendetta thing (silence, honor, revenge)

I still have grandads shotgun and pistol.

walk soft
May 1, 2012, 07:02 AM
Agreeed RHR.Very well put.

The Red Hot Rider
May 1, 2012, 10:42 PM
To complicate matters in my family tree, my ancestors were the Italian immigrants to the mines, who not only accepted the local code, but brought with them the omerta, honorata, vendetta thing (silence, honor, revenge)

I still have grandads shotgun and pistol.
Biker,

If you watch the movie "Matewan", you will see depictions of your Italian ancestors in Appalachia. They were brought here as "scabs" (no offense meant by that word).

I think they frequently did not know they were hired as scabs until they arrived and stepped off of the train. By that time, they had no way home and they were in debt to the company already for the train ride in. If they tried to go back to where they came from, they would have been arrested for theft by the local law enforcement, who were usually in the pockets of the coal company.

Once they found out the true score, the Italians usually joined with the union. At least that's what they did in the movie...

Now, to keep this thread 2a so we don't get closed by an administrator, let's say it's easy to see how 2a was beneficial to the poor coal miners who wanted to strike for better conditions, pay, etc. They were frequently harrassed by coal operators, even killed. Thanks to the 2a, they were able to defend themselves with the firearms the 2a provided to them.

I wonder how unionization went in other countries where there was no 2a.

4v50 Gary
May 2, 2012, 01:22 AM
No union talks please. Lets stay out of politics. Turning to honor, Clayton Cramer addresses it in his book on early weapon laws in the South. He goes heavily into honor and feuding.

SleazyRider
May 2, 2012, 07:02 AM
"All men who have honor are kings; but not all kings have honor." Could it be that this concept of honor is central to gang violence? And if so, would it be advantageous for us to understand it as armed citizens?

bikerdoc
May 2, 2012, 09:59 AM
I think they frequently did not know they were hired as scabs until they arrived and stepped off of the train. By that time, they had no way home and they were in debt to the company already for the train ride in. If they tried to go back to where they came from, they would have been arrested for theft by the local law enforcement, who were usually in the pockets of the coal company.

Once they found out the true score, the Italians usually joined with the union. At least that's what they did in the movie...



No offence taken as it was Absolutely true.

The mine owners had recruiters in NY who lied. Bold outright lied. They dangled the American dream and delivered exploitation.

I had a great uncle killed at the Blair mountain battle. Another who died of Black Lung.


As you said earlier,

To me, the fascination is the attempt to understand the mindset of the combatants.



Thats key central issue for me also.

From my perspective the native born and the immigrants were similar in character, mindset, and values. I am 63 and can remember family conversations going back 3 generations. Honor, dignity, and family were central themes

The quest for understanding is fascinating, They were different. The why and the how drives me. It is who we are. Who I am. and the world could use a whole bunch more of us with similar values.

Please call me Doc, my biker days are over

The Red Hot Rider
May 2, 2012, 03:39 PM
You got it, doc. The union talk was not intended to be political. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Dr.Rob
May 3, 2012, 04:57 PM
"Thunder in the Mountains"

http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-In-Mountains-Virginia-1920-21/dp/0822954265

Is a pretty good book on the 'Matewan Massacre' andthe events leading up to it. You'll find the origin of the word redneck explained there and the first example of 'interdiction' bombing in the USA. Sid Hatfield's two gun rig was a pair of Colt New Service revolvers (some sources say they were army models). That's one of the reasons I picked a New Service.

Fascinating stuff.

As a kid driving up to my great granny's house in Taylorville we'd be told to 'hush up' when driving past the Hatfield family plot, as "Devil Anse" was watching.

http://www.ghat.com/hatfwh01.htm

Now granted this was just a folk tale told to shush up rowdy kids in the car but you could see 'Anse' from the road when I was a kid.

Taylorville (a wide spot in the road with a post office general store bait shop even in the 40's) is over the hill from Matewan (a road narrow and full of coal trucks to this day) and it turns out I am related to the Hatfields by marriage. Half the people in the area around Matewan are related by blood or marriage to a Hatfield or McCoy. These are my roots and I am fascinated by the area and its rich history.

My scanner isn't working but I'll try to post a pic of "Anse" as he appears in the last 10 years or so.

(Granted this is a photo of a photo)

SleazyRider
May 3, 2012, 08:13 PM
Thanks for the recommendation, Dr. Rob, I just ordered a copy. That was a great anecote, and I look forward to checking it out this fall.

I don't understand how this event has escaped "mainstream" history, as it is not only compelling, but critically important to understanding the American experience.

4v50 Gary
May 4, 2012, 01:20 AM
Dr Rob. Is that image a cemetery marker or a statute of Devil Anse?

bikerdoc
May 4, 2012, 05:50 AM
That is his tomestone.
Scroll down the link for a better pic

http://www.ghat.com/hatfwh01.htm

bikerdoc
May 11, 2012, 10:55 PM
Just saw the first commercial for the special. Wow, big time cast and Kostner had a lever action in a short scene. Looks good, hope it is accurate!

SleazyRider
May 12, 2012, 07:49 PM
I was in the Big Apple last week and saw it advertised on one of those large LED signs a block or two from Times Square. It was strange to see a black powder revolver "brandished" in NYC!

bikerdoc
May 26, 2012, 11:08 PM
HHHHMMMM, just read where it was filmed in Romania.

Let's see if they get it right.

junkman_01
May 27, 2012, 08:17 AM
bikerdoc is absolutely correct. Here is the proof...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1985443/locations

The Red Hot Rider
May 29, 2012, 01:10 AM
I intend to see this thing through and watch all 3 episodes. HOWEVER, so far, it's total crap and far from the truth. LOTS of artistic license taken to this point. I kind of figured that would be the case.

towboat_er
May 29, 2012, 02:20 AM
Seems their making one side good, and one bad.

brushhippie
May 29, 2012, 05:12 AM
Total crap! bill paxton is just the WORST....hows that go " Ive seen better acting in a cambodian whore house"

bikerdoc
May 29, 2012, 07:11 AM
So far, it's crap.

I agree. Very disappointing.

junkman_01
May 29, 2012, 09:35 AM
I liked it so far. :rolleyes:

zimmerstutzen
May 29, 2012, 01:11 PM
Absolutely everything scripted for a movie is rife with errors. From the way folks talked and looked to the clothes and all kinds of other things. If I sat down and tried to pick through every show I saw looking for errors, there would be no enjoyment. I don't like blatant error, like showing a trapdoor at the siege of Boonesboro. (Actually an early Dan'l Boone talkie)

Chuck Dixon has a sign on the wall in his shop that says something to the effect that: Josey Wales is the only man that never had a cap and ball revolver misfire. Movies take license with all kinds of things whether intentionally or not.

Personally, on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd give it a 7. I expected a little more fleshing out of why they felt the way they did about each other. I don't see one side portrayed as evil or good, so much as they were from opposite sides of the tracks/ river.

junkman_01
May 29, 2012, 01:41 PM
Well in the movie it is clear that Randall McCoy's dislike for Anse Hatfield is a direct result of Hatfield's desertion from the Confederate army. In McCoy's eyes, Hatfield has no honor.

desidog
May 29, 2012, 06:01 PM
Well, at least there are no aliens for sale in a pawn shop... It's pretty rare to see factual historical content on the History Channel these days, and this show is closer to that mark than anything else they've done lately.

I concur with 7/10

4v50 Gary
May 29, 2012, 06:25 PM
I don't watch TV, but didn't one side fight for the Union and the other side for the Confederacy?

I thought the feud was over the Hatfield treatment of some McCoy women. It caused a stabbing for which three McCoys were lynched.

bikerdoc
May 29, 2012, 06:28 PM
Well in the movie it is clear that Randall McCoy's dislike for Anse Hatfield is a direct result of Hatfield's desertion from the Confederate army. In McCoy's eyes, Hatfield has no honor.



Neither were regular CSA The logan wildcats were a local guirilla group who harrassed yankees. There is no evidence Hatfield deserted, or McCoy was a POW.

usmcchet9296
May 29, 2012, 06:46 PM
I appriciated the show for what it is ................entertainment but the history channel doesnt have a good track record for being historically correct. I did think Bill Paxtons character was a little over the top.

scrat
May 29, 2012, 10:39 PM
in case you missed it like i did here it is on history.com
http://www.history.com/shows/hatfields-and-mccoys/videos#hatfields-and-mccoys-part-1

bluethunder1962
May 29, 2012, 10:59 PM
To much GDing it for me. I was looking forward to it.

Dan Carey
May 29, 2012, 11:12 PM
I never let the language or the casting that hollywood shoves down our throats, stop me from watching the parts that interest me. Being politically correct is not one of my virtues.

RDCL
May 30, 2012, 01:18 AM
Totally agree with statements regarding the movie "Matewan". Exellent movie.

Great scene where Baldwin Felts agents are attempting to evict minors from company owned homes and are "faced down" by "gen-u-ine hill-folk" (as stated by a charactor).....coming out from the woods angry that their hunting had been disrupted by all the ruckus:

Agent to hillbilly: "where'd ya git THAT gun......revolutionary war?"

Hillbilly : (shakes head in negative....raises muzzle) "War 'tween th' states".

Without a doubt one of the most brutal and realistic gun battles ever put on film, although I've often wondered if Sid Hatfield actually did "duel-wield" a pair of revolvers during the battle as depicted in the movie.

Dr.Rob
May 30, 2012, 06:29 AM
He did.. there are numerous pics of him sporting a two-gun rig.

http://blairmountainreenactment.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/dscf0077.jpg



As for the mini series.. I'm watching and while there is indeed some fast and loose 'premise' stuff from the civil war.. it is very likely Jim Vance killed a McCoy who had been a union soldier. The FEUD however has always been described as starting over the pig.. years later.


The McCoy 'lawyer' isn't someone I recognize from folk history, seems more like a conglomorate character. (I could be wrong).

The logging rights attempted swindle is a story I HAVE heard told many times. Granted I am from the Hatfield side of the Tug Fork, so what I grew up hearing might be a skosh different.. though my grandfather on my dad's side was born in Pikeville KY.. most of the 'lore' I've heard was from the WV side in Matewan and Taylorville.

SleazyRider
May 30, 2012, 07:43 AM
I find myself wondering if this mainsteam History Channel series will result in a significant increase in tourism of West Virginia/Kentucky, or perhaps an interest in black powder shooting.

Skyshot
May 30, 2012, 08:27 AM
For the most part, I find the show entertaining. I think some of the characters are a little over the top. I'm disappointed that the show was filmed in Romania. There are plenty of places they could have filmed the movie right here in the Appalachians that would have made the film more authentic. Having lived in the Apps. most of my life, its clear that the scenery is not a correct match. But still an entertaining show.

1911Tuner
May 30, 2012, 09:55 AM
For those who are following it, the series is historically more accurate than any tinseltown effort to date. I had kinfolks in and around Eastern Kentucky from Pike to Harlan counties who were on hand to see some of that drama and knew a few members of the extended families. Those people were completely serious about a blood feud, and many carried it to their graves.

My grandfather's brother lived in the Tug Fork area on the Kentucky side of the river within a day's walk of the Hatfield and McCoy properties. Don't scoff. In those hills, a day's walk was about 10 statute miles. It took a while.

Reports from people who were there say that the feud actually continued well into the 30s...but mostly fistfights and the occasional non-lethal knifing...and you could get a fight started by simply voicing an opinion on who was in the right/wrong, depending on which side you took and who happened to overhear it.

For those who are interested in Appalachian history, there was another smaller, lesser-known feud that began in the 1890s and culminated in the Hillsville Courthouse tragedy in Carroll County Virginia, near the North Carolina border. You can get into a fight to this day in Carroll County by taking the wrong side...again, depending on which side you take and who's listening. I'm acquainted with a few members of the descendants of the Allen clan, and some of them still harbor ill will a hundred years after the incident. "Carrying a grudge" is redefined in Appalachia.

1911Tuner
May 30, 2012, 09:57 AM
A "smatterin" of the way they talk in them parts. I ain't been in them hills in quite a spell, but I can understand'em. I knows just 'zactly what they's sayin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXghKHHzlXQ&feature=endscreen&NR=1

ghitch75
May 30, 2012, 10:25 AM
i like the show so far....

grampster
May 30, 2012, 12:39 PM
Part of my family on my dad's side resides on Wheeling Island and around and about nearby in W. Virginia. When I was a kid in the '50's we'd drive down from Michigan to visit and then on to Pittsburgh where the rest of the family lived.

Anywhoo, I was always reminded by family in W. Virginia that we were not Hillbillies, we were Ridge Runners in W. Virginia. My gramma always said the cows in and around Wheeling had legs that were shorter on one side because of having to walk on the hillsides.:D

Never heard anything about feuds when I was a kid, but used to get stories about the Zane's and the Wetzel brothers and Col. McCollough from the settlement days in the area.

Sorry for the drift, but this thread kick started some fond memories. I am enjoying watching the show for the firearms being used. I don't have anything to offer other than I am struck by the sadness that watching stories such as this brings about.

FiveStrings
May 30, 2012, 10:01 PM
For those of us who share this heritage, a good read is "Born Fighting" by Jim Webb.

andrewstorm
May 30, 2012, 11:11 PM
the movie depicts 1858 remington brass frame conversions to centerfire,is this accurate?

Tommygunn
May 31, 2012, 12:26 AM
The 1858 Remington was never made as a brass frame. Remington made a small .31 caliber, called an 1863 IIRC, which was made in four basic versions, two of which had brass frames, so yes Remington even being a Northern maker, did use brass.
But the larger .36 and .44 caliber revolvers were steel frame jobs.
What you saw was an artifact or anachronism; someone using what he thought was a Confederate-made gun that never really existed.

Carl N. Brown
May 31, 2012, 01:00 AM
My mother's folks came from the area between Norton, Virginia, and Louisa, Kentucky. During the 1950s and up to 1965 or so we would travel by car from Kingsport to Louisa to stay with an aunt and uncle every Labor Day weekend, mom, dad, us kids and mamaw and papaw. It was a 212 mile trip and we heard lotsa tales of life in the coal towns, and about scrip and the company store.

I also remember my great-granma used what I learned later were pronunciations that dated back as far Alexander Pope at least, like she pronounced join "jyne" (rhymes with "line").

"...the show was filmed in Romania..." Cold Mountain set in Civil War era North Carolina mountains was filmed in Romania, also. Sort looks like Great Smoky Mountain area, but fewer TVA power towers, superhighways and jet contrails in the sky. :)

...lesser-known feud that began in the 1890s and culminated in the Hillsville Courthouse tragedy...
Hillsville, Carrol County, Virginia, Floyd Allen family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Allen

Wife and I got all six hours in the DVR waiting for us tomorrow morning.

Tinpan58
May 31, 2012, 01:49 AM
I enjoyed the show, You just need to take it for what it is entertainment, brass frame remmie and all. It was a very tragic story, so many lives ruined over foolishness.

junkman_01
May 31, 2012, 08:27 AM
Being Sicilian, I don't know if I would consider it 'foolishness'. ;)

1911Tuner
May 31, 2012, 08:55 AM
Carl, once again I see that we've had similar paths. My mother was born and raised in Coeburn, and my cousins ran a law firm in Norton. I remember the Inn at Wise when it was an operating hotel...and stayed there once. A very elegant place as I remember. The last time I saw it, the building had fallen into disrepair. I imagine it's been torn down by now.

I remember the operating coke ovens over on the Pound. At night, the scene was positively Medeval.

My maternal grandparents lived on top of Wise Mountain, in the days before they had indoor plumbing. My grandfather never lived in a house with a flush toilet, central heating, or an electric range. Outhouses, "cookstoves" and wood and coal-fired pot belly stoves were all he knew. Modern conveniences made him nervous, although he did consent to electricity...Edison Lights... when he was about 80. I remember him saying that goin' to the head inside the house just didn't seem right to him. He didn't even use a slop jar except in the winter months. He was born 3 months before the Sioux and Cheyenne handed Custer his keister at the Little Bighorn.

I also remember him talking about the Hatfield-McCoy affair. He said they were a buncha hellions that didn't have no sense.

Hint: If ya don't know what a slop jar is, you'uns ain't from around here. :D

Skyshot
May 31, 2012, 09:05 AM
My mother's folks came from the area between Norton, Virginia, and Louisa, Kentucky. During the 1950s and up to 1965 or so we would travel by car from Kingsport to Louisa to stay with an aunt and uncle every Labor Day weekend, mom, dad, us kids and mamaw and papaw. It was a 212 mile trip and we heard lotsa tales of life in the coal towns, and about scrip and the company store.

I also remember my great-granma used what I learned later were pronunciations that dated back as far Alexander Pope at least, like she pronounced join "jyne" (rhymes with "line").

"...the show was filmed in Romania..." Cold Mountain set in Civil War era North Carolina mountains was filmed in Romania, also. Sort looks like Great Smoky Mountain area, but fewer TVA power towers, superhighways and jet contrails in the sky. :)


Hillsville, Carrol County, Virginia, Floyd Allen family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Allen

Wife and I got all six hours in the DVR waiting for us tomorrow morning.
The movie "Winter People" which stared Kurt Russell and Kelly McGillis a depression era family fued in North Carolina between the Wrights and Campbells was acutually filmed in Avery County North Carolina and had great Cinematography. No power lines or jet contrails. And they even had some locals play parts in the movie. My cousin got to be in the bear hunting scenes which was pretty cool.

Voodoochile
May 31, 2012, 12:39 PM
My wife Becky was born in Norton, Va. & her Papaw still lives in the Pound, his house is practically a stones throw from the Kentucky border & in the late 40's till not too long ago he had a store off of the highway coming from Ky. that sold wine & beer, well he made a killing because the county in Ky bordering the Pound is a dry county.
You do the math.
Told Becky that her & my G-pa have a lot in common, her Papaw sold beer & wine at his location to those from the dry county & my Poppop was a shine runner back in the mid 30's-early 40's before he joined the Army in 41'.

I'll have to ask her Papaw about his memory about the area since he's lived there nearly all his life & he's 87 now.

Watched some of the show but other things got in the way of me finishing it but my oldest asked me some trivia about the show just last night, I told her that I know the real history from what I've read & heard not much about the show.

1911Tuner
May 31, 2012, 02:54 PM
Voodoo...That would be Highway 23 goin' into Jenkins. Letcher County. Some of our kin probably pulled a cork together. My mother was the baby of her family. If she'd lived, she'd be 89. Her brother...18 months older...was a police officer in Coeburn for a time, but all the city police were under the thumb and authority of the Wise County sheriff.

Oh...and it's "over on the Pound" to the locals. ;)

Voodoochile
May 31, 2012, 04:12 PM
Oh...and it's "over on the Pound" to the locals.

LOL I was more than once corrected of that from Becky.

I like the area & would love to have my retirement home out there.
Had to show a few friends here in Fredericksburg that one resident just outside of the Pound has his single wide sitting on his property at what seemed to need a Chinok heli to place it there.

bikerdoc
May 31, 2012, 06:58 PM
My wifes family is from Louisa, mine from Hinton and Beckley, we are retired but we go back for visits but kind of like our little piece of dirt on the VA/NC border.

1911Tuner
May 31, 2012, 07:08 PM
Dang! Lotsa hillbillies on board! Best folks I know of.

aeriedad
May 31, 2012, 09:30 PM
Voodoo...That would be Highway 23 goin' into Jenkins. Letcher County.

My dad went to Dorton HS before it was absorbed by Shelby Valley. I've driven through Norton and Pound, VA on the way to Jenkins and Pikeville, KY a few times, visiting family. My Mamaw and Papaw lived in Jenkins when I was a kid, still got about a hundred cousins there, more or less. I didn't grow up there though, and my dad says even with all our connections to the area, I would still be an outsider if I tried to relocate there.

Haven't seen the H & M series yet...too busy. Got it on DVR, probably will see in the next week or so. Don't really have high expectations for it either...History Channel consistently disappoints...

Dr.Rob
May 31, 2012, 09:50 PM
Just a reminder many 'historical' photos of the era were shot in a photographer's studios with prop guns. Don't be too hard on the prop department. ;)

bikerdoc
May 31, 2012, 10:42 PM
Don't really have high expectations for it either...History Channel consistently disappoints...


And it continues to disapoint with this one. I expected more. Bill Paxton and the writers need to get into another line of work.

Tommygunn
June 1, 2012, 12:35 AM
And it continues to disapoint with this one. I expected more.

Well, I DVD recorded the series and watched Pt 1 this afternoon.
Sorry, it was disappointing. I guess I'm just not that interested in a couple of clans engage in arguments. The stolen pig thing was a little too .... dumb. A lot of it also seemed slow and disjointed.
As for the guns, that too was disappointing; brass-frame Remmie '58s which never existed. Yes, I know propmasters go with what they can get and they don't all know what is real and what is just a fiction created by a modern Italian gun maker pumping out repros, but, still.
I am not sure I will be watching parts 2 & 3 ....maybe this weekend........

TennJed
June 1, 2012, 03:09 AM
I enjoyed it. I will agree that Bill Paxton was over the top, but I thought the rest of it was entertaining.

As far as accuracy, I have no clue, but not too concerned. It was a movie, not a documentary. I am not very well read on the subject. I am interested in the subject now and plan on doing some digging.

maybe it is just me, but I watch MOVIES for entertainment and do not pay too much attention to little details. History and facts are best gained with ones own research then relying on actors.

Keep in mind that is was entertainment and the History Channel has to make money. Personally I think they did something a MOVIE about history should do. Entertain me and peak my interest into a subject. Now I need to read and watch documentaries to get the facts straight. If it had been more factual, but less entertaining there is a good chance the end result would be me knowing less about the Hatfields and McCoys

1911Tuner
June 1, 2012, 05:52 AM
True that, Jed. It was a movie...known as entertainment. It depicted a piece of Appalachian history and had most of the facts straight, but the simple truth is that there would be no way in God's creation to tell the whole, factual story that spanned some 50 years in three nights.

Tommy...in that culture, stealing a man's pig was serious business. It could mean the difference between half the winter subsisting on potatoes, cornbread, and pintos and having meat on the table. If we knew the truth, there were probably more than a few shallow graves filled over a "dumb" pig....and there are a lotta places to bury a body in them thar hills.

To see the topography is to understand just how rugged and remote some of it is to this day. It's said that in Harlan County, "The sun rises at 9 in the mornin' and sets at 5 in the afternoon." The same is true in several locations.

It was also a matter of honor. Thieves were...and are...regarded as some of the lowest forms of life in Appalachia, and a neighbor stealing from a neighbor was...and is...regarded as a serious betrayal of trust. Pigs were allowed to free forage, and if a man found a pig on his property with his neighbor's mark, he was expected to return it. Sort of a "Code of the Hills" thing. Ignoring it could prove fatal.

As another point of interest, "The Pound" is the home of U2 pilot Francis Gary Powers. He attended high school with one of my first cousins, and had sold his guitar...a J-45 Gibson...to my cousin after he enlisted. It was the first guitar that I ever played at age 7 or 8. I sat and picked out the theme to Bonanza by ear after breakfast at my uncle's house, to my father's amazement. After that, he saw to it that a guitar was at my disposal, and I took to it like flies to molasses.

Tommygunn
June 1, 2012, 12:24 PM
Tommy...in that culture, stealing a man's pig was serious business. It could mean the difference between half the winter subsisting on potatoes, cornbread, and pintos and having meat on the table. If we knew the truth, there were probably more than a few shallow graves filled over a "dumb" pig....and there are a lotta places to bury a body in them thar hills.

Yeah, I did get that much from the show. Sorta like it being OK to shoot horsethieves because being without a horse in the old west could leave you stranded & dead. But IMHO the seriousness of the pig-thievery was insufficiently played.
I think it might have been as a result of the apparant "disjointed-ness" of the show.
It is often hard to fit years' worth of history in a 2 hour film so maybe I am being too critical ...... but the show hasn't "lit my fire" so to speak.
Another technical thing is that I recorded from 8:00-10:00PM exactly for three days; in order to fit three episodes on one DVD I used the slowest record speed, but I note atleast part one ran over-time. Things like that tick me off. Now I'm thinking my recording is probably missing the conclusion on all episodes and that sorta sours me on wanting to spend time watching them.

scrat
June 1, 2012, 07:58 PM
Tommy Go to History.com you can watch the video on line that way you will know if it is ok or not. The ending of the first episode was the best. It left you hanging wanting to find out what happened. The ending of the second episode was ehh.

All in all i am glad i watched it. To me it was great. But then i grew up in the land of sun, beaches, mountains and desert. So California. So not really knowing that much about it except where it was mentioned it was good to see it. Heck does anyone remember the Bugs Bunny episode of the hatfields and mc coys.

XD 45acp
June 1, 2012, 08:46 PM
Dang! Lotsa hillbillies on board

Yep! I'm originally from Wheelwright KY, in Floyd county... 1 county over from Pike. My wife is from War, WV. We are all the time messing with each other... she'll call me hillbilly, and I'll call her a Briar Hopper. She hates that. Oh, and she really goes off if I say, " Hey baby, lets go play in the woodpile".:D

crstrode
June 2, 2012, 03:59 PM
Swiping a hog, or holding one for ransom was indeed serious business.

As a kid, my family moved to the sticks a few miles from the town of Yamhill Oregon. Anyone familiar with that part of the country in the early 1960's knows that hillbillies of Appalachia had nothing at all on those of NW Oregon. The aroma of sour mash was regularly on the breeze.

The farm was being sold by a fellow that had caught a hog that escaped once too often from his neighbor's pen.

The dispute evolved into an actual shootin' feud, forcing the man to flee for his and his family's life.

We moved in, unbeknownst to the hog's rightful owner. The tires on the tractor were soon slashed along with sugar added to the gas tank.

My father was clued-in to the feud by one of the other neighbors, and quickly make friends without any accusations by anyone.

A wise move on Dad's part.

Ryanxia
June 2, 2012, 10:23 PM
I thought it was a good mini-series. I never knew much about the feud and what I did know I forgot long ago so it was neat to see the whole story.

Jaymo
June 2, 2012, 10:54 PM
If you really want to see stupid people and behavior, just watch Jersey Shore or TMZ.

Harlan County, that reminds me of one of my favorite shows-Justified. Don't know how culturally correct it is, but it sure is fun to watch.

1911Tuner
June 3, 2012, 12:11 PM
Justified is...pretty close. The character of Mags Bennett was based on the real-life Harlan County lady bootlegger, Magdalene (Aunt Maggie) Bailey. I remember my grandparents speaking of her and her locally famous peach and apple "pies."

http://boingboing.net/2005/12/12/rip-maggie-bailey-th.html

david58
June 5, 2012, 12:49 AM
Grew up in upper East Tennessee - Justified does the redneck, drug-dealin' rebel really well. I'd swear I grew up with some of those folks....

But back to Hatfields and McCoys, I figgered it to be good entertainment, and was right. History it was not, but for Hollywood it was about as historical as one could expect. 'Course the fact that Uncle Jim's dog lived some 23+ years was a bit interesting - and how so many folk didn't age much over that stretch of time - shoot, the preacher baptizing Anse in 1911 hadn't aged much a'tall....

TheBigAR2003
June 5, 2012, 04:25 PM
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/dc3/905/229/resized/giorgio-tsoukalos-meme-generator-hatfields-mccoys-nope-aliens-51104d.jpg

hang fire
June 5, 2012, 05:00 PM
The Hatfield and McCoy feud was small potatoes when compared with the Graham and Tewksbury (feud) Pleasant Valley war here in Arizona. Over fifty men died in 15 years and only ended when the last Graham was shot in the back and killed on a Tempe, AZ street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hekALWtiWm0

DMH
June 5, 2012, 10:11 PM
The show piqued my interest and if it was shot on location that is some very beautiful land. It also lead to this thread that has been informative and appreciated.

DMH

junkman_01
June 5, 2012, 10:19 PM
You mean it 'piqued' your interest. That mini-series was filmed in Romania.

bikerdoc
June 5, 2012, 10:20 PM
I am reading Otis Rice's book on my nook. Facinating insight and well written.

mohican
June 15, 2012, 02:55 PM
1. liked the 2nd part of it best. Part 1 was kinda slow.

2. On Pawn Stars, someone came into the shop with a 1892 Winchester they said was passed down through the family and supposedly used by an escaping hatfield. Even if the feud continued to some degree into the 1930s, my understanding that the peak and end of the shooting was in 1888. Rick (of pawn stars) never seemed to pick up that the gun was probably too new for the Hatfield-McCoy feud.

Dellbert
June 15, 2012, 05:45 PM
I kind of liked the show. Something defferent to watch. T.V. shows are all kind of fading out nowdays. Just about everythings a rerun nowdays. Think goodness for DVDs least you can control what you want to watch. :uhoh:











Dell

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