Nugent at the NRA meeting.


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General Tso
April 17, 2012, 04:11 PM
Stuff like this is why I cannot support the NRA. I mean whether you support the president or not he is our president.
This scumbag just compared him to a coyote that should be shot. The NRA should not be involved in political hate speech.


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General Tso
April 17, 2012, 04:13 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/04/16/ted-nugent-romney-obama_n_1429698.html?


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Konstantin835
April 17, 2012, 04:16 PM
I still like the NRA overall but it amazes me that they still keep that nut job Nugent around. He just perpetuates the stereotype that gun owners are all crazy rednecks. I agree, like him or not at least show the President of the United States some respect.

General Tso
April 17, 2012, 04:19 PM
Exactly. I don't wanna make this a political thread and have it locked, I just want to point out that it makes us gun enthusiasts look bad having an idiot like that speaking at your convention. Definitely not gonna bring anyone over to the RKBA side.



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BemidjiDweller
April 17, 2012, 04:21 PM
Yeah, he totally wasn't speaking metaphorically at all...

rajb123
April 17, 2012, 05:28 PM
I don't think TN speaks for the NRA even though he is a board member.

I did not find his comments about Obama hurtful. I'm sick of people who are politically correct and who dissagree with someone and then say, "these people should be stopped"

If you don't like the NRA, don't join...

Unistat
April 17, 2012, 05:34 PM
The fact remains that certain lobby groups and political parties support 2A rights (to a greater or lesser degree) and other lobby groups and political parties do not. The NRA does. They have been doing so for decades, when it wasn't popular and when it was very difficult. Without a doubt we would not have the freedoms we have today if it wasn't for them and groups like them.

Vote for whoever you want and support (or don't) whatever lobby group you want, but don't cry about it if your rights are taken away.

Oh, and a fair read of Nugent's comments make it clear that he was making a metaphor and not actually talking about shooting anyone.

Rail Driver
April 17, 2012, 05:38 PM
I gotta say... At least Mr. Nugent has the "intestinal fortitude" (as Major Peppins used to put it), to say what he thinks about the situation. "Our" president does NOT deserve respect, he and his wife have disrespected his office and our nation more times than I can count (for example his hand over his heart during the Russian National Anthem, but hands clasped at his belt during the American National Anthem; His vacations during Veteran's Day instead of attending the ceremony at Arlington; the First Lady's comment during the 9/11 flag folding of "All this for a flag?", etc, etc, etc).

The president and his wife deserve less respect than we give the coyotes we shoot, in my opinion. We give coyotes a clean, ethical death. They're giving our once great nation a slow, lingering, cruel death. Granted they didn't start it, but they're doing a smashing job of finishing it.

tarakian
April 17, 2012, 05:45 PM
Ted Nugent has been outspoken for gun and hunting rights for as long as he has been able to get people to listen. He is not politically correct, and does not care to be. Why should he have to tone down his opinions because they may not please any given person? He also believes in the first amendment. The speech was clearly metaphorical rhetoric, and in no way a direct threat to the personal safety of Obama. The president is no better by default than any other citizen of this country.

Respect is not given, it is earned.

jcwit
April 17, 2012, 05:53 PM
I still like the NRA overall but it amazes me that they still keep that nut job Nugent around.

Why is he kept around? Simple, he's a board member elected by the membership.

At least he's got a pair, and is entitled to his opinion as is everyone else.

jcwit
April 17, 2012, 05:57 PM
Respect is not given, it is earned.

Hey now, thats a new concept!

whalerman
April 17, 2012, 06:10 PM
And General Tso, you're going to use the Huffington post as a source for your information? I wouldn't do that. Remember the recent "recording" released by NBC. And besides, the NRA is a big tent, it has all kinds of people in it. Don't run from it just because you don't like the words of one individual. That's exactly what the phobes want you to do. Think for yourself.

General Tso
April 17, 2012, 06:16 PM
OK mods. The right wing nutjobs are coming out. Time to lock this one.

GT1
April 17, 2012, 06:20 PM
People like TN do far more harm than the far left antis, unfortunately. The extreme 'gun nut' mentality will never help promote the 2A.
Just because one is a celeb doesn't mean their opinions are good ones.

He was a hell of an axe player in his prime though, first concert I ever went to.

Rail Driver
April 17, 2012, 06:24 PM
OK mods. The right wing nutjobs are coming out. Time to lock this one.
Time to lock it? You're the one making personal attacks here (right wing nutjobs? Scumbag? How very high-road of you). All because we don't agree with your assessment of the situation... So it's ok for you to disagree and speak out about it, but it's not ok for someone who doesn't believe as you do?

Don't run from it just because you don't like the words of one individual.

General Tso: It seems to me that you're crying out to the mods to lock the thread because the response to your own "political hate speech" wasn't what you expected.

oldbear
April 17, 2012, 06:30 PM
I'm a fairly NON-P.C. myself, yet Mr. Obama is the president of this great country of ours and should be given the respect the office deserves. We were taught in basic training that we did not have to respect an officer, but we HAD to respect the uniform the officer was waring!! Same concept with POTUS.

mljdeckard
April 17, 2012, 06:31 PM
If our opposition played fair, was honest in their dealings, and could have I civil dialogue, I would say Nugent was too much.

But none of these things are the case.

jcwit
April 17, 2012, 06:32 PM
general, why do you feel the need to call folks that disagree with you names?

Real class act!

GT1
April 17, 2012, 06:41 PM
Here is a way to rank him.
Drop him in a crowd of the people you need to sway and convert, not folks who are already pro-2A. He will do horribly in that crowd. Hell, he'd have them running and screaming to take away all guns from the gun nut. (This is an ongoing problem even without him)

A poor choice for any kind of spokesman, is Ted Nugent.

Besides, he crapped himself on purpose at the induction station to get out of serving his country. Respect that if you want....

JRH6856
April 17, 2012, 06:41 PM
OK mods. The right wing nutjobs are coming out. Time to lock this one.

Why lock it when the discussion is just becoming fair and balanced?

BemidjiDweller
April 17, 2012, 06:42 PM
...I don't wanna make this a political thread and have it locked...OK mods. The right wing nutjobs are coming out. Time to lock this one.

Good job not making this a political thread. Just because we don't agree with you, doesn't make us nutjobs. I'll keep the rest of the comments I want to say for myself.

wlewisiii
April 17, 2012, 06:46 PM
Nugent is a washed up draft dodging coward. What else needs be said?

barstoolguru
April 17, 2012, 06:46 PM
I agree, like him or not at least show the President of the United States some respect.

when he takes sides of an issue in FL because he is black and makes it a point to play the race card I have no respect for him... sorry I agree with uncle ted

General Tso
April 17, 2012, 06:53 PM
I tend to think people who don't respect the president are "nutjobs". I apologize if I offended anyone.
My point I was trying to make (I may have done a bad job making it) was that this kind of rhetoric does not help the RKBA cause. In fact, it hurts it. I gives anti-gun folks more ammo and it makes the stereotype of "crazy gun nuts" seem fitting.

jcwit
April 17, 2012, 07:01 PM
Being as the anti gun crowd already has a warped mindset you may be right. Still no reason for all of us to be politically correct. I normally also speak my mind and let the chips fall where they may.

My thinking is that is someone has a problem with my viewpoint they have all of 2 options, get over it, or stay upset/offended. Neither option makes any difference to me.

Nico Testosteros
April 17, 2012, 07:03 PM
Nugents just another chickenhawk draft dodger.

jcwit
April 17, 2012, 07:09 PM
Nugents just another chickenhawk draft dodger.

And to all of you who feel the same, remember when pointing fingers at someone else there 3 pointing back at yourself. Do not cast the stones unless you are totally free of any wrongdoing.

Yes I am a Veteran!
Yes I lived thru the peace demostrations of the 60's in D.C.
Yes I was called a baby killer and spit at.
I know all about it.

Rail Driver
April 17, 2012, 07:10 PM
There's no need to introduce misinformation to the thread (GTI,, wlewisiii, Nico T). Not everybody who registered for the draft (Yes, Mr. Nugent DID register for the draft.) was called. He did NOT show up to the induction station covered in feces or urine. His number was not called up. He has gone on record stating that fact. There is no proof otherwise aside from a few reporters that wrote false stories (and those stories were later retracted).

Introducing lies that are off topic in the first place does not help your case. Let's keep it on topic please.

rajb123
April 17, 2012, 07:25 PM
Some looked at the past president of the NRA, Chuck Heston as a nut job. I would dissagree with that assesment and I would consider him a brilliant person who cared deeply about our gun rights.

Eventually, I beleive Teddy will become the NRA CEO and that would be a good thing. The orgainization is long-in-the-tooth and needs new blood. Unfortunately, right now it is not active enough in challenging gun controls in court cases and, hopefully, this will change in the future.

GT1
April 17, 2012, 07:26 PM
The guy 'avoided' having to serve, call it what you want. *shrug* I'm not saying I really blame him, who wanted to go to 'Nam?

General Tso
April 17, 2012, 07:49 PM
http://t.co/blDv7UC4Video: Why Ted Nugent

bobbo
April 17, 2012, 07:59 PM
There are two very good reasons why TN should "tone it down."
1) Saying the president should be shot like an animal is not respectful. In fact, that is verging on criminal. Yes, much like the Second Amendment, the courts have ruled there are limits to the First Amendment. What if somebody shoots the president? TN and the NRA in turn could possibly be found liable for the shooting (not likely, but it's not impossible). It's like when somebody sues the KKK for a lone wolf gunning someone down.

I don't care if the opposition is "playing fair." Calling for the death of an elected official is a horrible idea. If you don't like somebody who is elected, vote them out. You don't call for the murder of a sitting president. That's not cool.

2) Every time TN opens his mouth, it's good for a couple million dollars in the DNC war-chest. Money is power. So every time he opens his mouth about killing public officials, he is effectively giving the opposition more power.

So there. Can he legally say whatever he wants? Actually, that's debatable, but theoretically he can. Should he? Not by any logical process.

hogshead
April 17, 2012, 08:03 PM
Proud to be a right wing nut job. Much better than being a whiny lib who reads the Huffy post.Rock on Nuge.

alsaqr
April 17, 2012, 08:07 PM
Nugent is a washed up draft dodging coward. What else needs be said?

Bingo!!!
i'm a US Army retiree. IMO: A guy who urinated and defecated on himself to avoid military service is not my idea of a patriot. See Nugents interview with the Detroit Free Press.

TurtlePhish
April 17, 2012, 08:15 PM
1) Saying the president should be shot like an animal is not respectful. In fact, that is verging on criminal. Yes, much like the Second Amendment, the courts have ruled there are limits to the First Amendment. What if somebody shoots the president? TN and the NRA in turn could possibly be found liable for the shooting (not likely, but it's not impossible). It's like when somebody sues the KKK for a lone wolf gunning someone down.

I don't care if the opposition is "playing fair." Calling for the death of an elected official is a horrible idea. If you don't like somebody who is elected, vote them out. You don't call for the murder of a sitting president. That's not cool.


Did you read the actual quote? He was making a metaphor, not calling for the death of an elected official. His message was to do something about a problem, not just sit there and let it happen. He was saying that the problem was the result of people doing nothing to prevent it and it was their fault that it happened.

robhof
April 17, 2012, 08:28 PM
I also find TN a breath of fresh air, as political correctness has ruled over common sense, and I agree that the RACE card has been played to death during this administration, case in point allowing the black panthers to intimidate voters in IL. had they been KKK they would still be in jail, also prejudging a possible SD shooting that insures there will be no fair trial in FL.

jcwit
April 17, 2012, 08:30 PM
Bingo!!!
i'm a US Army retiree. IMO: A guy who urinated and defecated on himself to avoid military service is not my idea of a patriot. See Nugents interview with the Detroit Free Press.

Would be wise to read post #28.

You would actually believe everything you would especially the detroit free press. After all it is a liberal rag.

Yarddog
April 17, 2012, 08:31 PM
By jcwit
"[Why is he kept around? Simple, he's a board member elected by the membership.

At least he's got a pair, and is entitled to his opinion as is everyone else.]"

^^^^^------------------------------------------------^^^^^
Exactly, He dos'nt hold his toung, Thogh he comes across as well spoken. He'd be a great,, NO He Is a GREAT Spokemen Truth Be Told ; )
Y/D
__________________

Tommygunn
April 17, 2012, 08:32 PM
OK mods. The right wing nutjobs are coming out. Time to lock this one.

Yeah, we would never want to may "right wingers" to be able to get their thoughts published in a website, for sure! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Nugent is a bomb thrower. If you think he's ... "rough" I invite you to listen to radio talk shock host Neal Boortz. For him it's the year of "talking dangerously."
Have fun out there.

ACP
April 17, 2012, 08:32 PM
In my parent's day, and in my grandparents' day, what you call being "politically correct" was what used to be called having good, old-fashioned "manners."

Nugent doesn't have any, nor does he have any common sense, and shame on those here defending him. Forget about his 2nd Amendment support. The man is advocating violence against a democratically elected man and against a broad group of innocent people in general.

Ted will very quickly find out he is in hot water. He'll be quiet for a while, he'll be cleared, he'll mouth off again somewhere else to show how "country" he is, but he'll be scared stiff inside about ever screwing up like this again. And well he should.

jcwit
April 17, 2012, 08:44 PM
In my parent's day, and in my grandparents' day, what you call being "politically correct" was what used to be called having good, old-fashioned "manners."

Surly you jest! Not in my day, nor in my parents day.

BTW, my parents were born in the 1800's.

manner's my, Oh heck I just won't say it. Too politically incorrect.

Hacker15E
April 17, 2012, 08:51 PM
Based on the general media coverage of Uncle Ted's speech (from both ends of the media spectrum), it really doesn't paint firearms owners -- which right or wrong are closely associated with public perceptions of the NRA -- in a very positive light.

mac66
April 17, 2012, 08:55 PM
Huffington Post=left wing propagandist rag

MSNBC=left wing propagandist media outlet

Ted Nugent=big mouth preaching to the choir

Obama=left wing card carrying socialist

I don't think anything Nugent said holds a candle to what leftist celebrities have said about President Bush or Sarah Palin or other conservatives.

General Tso
April 17, 2012, 08:56 PM
Most combative were his remarks calling Romney supporters to action, saying *We need
to ride into that battlefield and chop their heads off in November.*

Do you think that's appropriate speech for an NRA board member?

General Tso
April 17, 2012, 08:58 PM
Huffington Post=left wing propagandist rag

MSNBC=left wing propagandist media outlet

Ted Nugent=big mouth preaching to the choir

Obama=left wing card carrying socialist

I don't think anything Nugent said holds a candle to what leftist celebrities have said about President Bush or Sarah Palin or other conservatives.

Only Fox News is true, right?

DanGuy48
April 17, 2012, 09:00 PM
Peraonally, I don't understand that phrase. I have no respect for the man in that office at all. I think he's a liar and a fraud. Once we get someone there that deserves respect, then will the office be respectable. It's just a very sad situation in DC now, and that includes congress. The SCOTUS is the only branch i respect right now.

JRH6856
April 17, 2012, 09:01 PM
*We need
to ride into that battlefield and chop their heads off in November.*

Do you think that's appropriate speech for an NRA board member?

Euphemistically? Sounds like a good plan.

jcwit
April 17, 2012, 09:12 PM
Only Fox News is true, right?

Beats the drivel from the others listed.

Mayhap we should listen to Keith Olbermann! Ya that'll work.

Hacker15E
April 17, 2012, 09:22 PM
How about they're all hopelessly biased sources.

The smart, critical thinker would consume media from many different sources and from many different parts of the political and social spectrum, and then use their gray matter to determine the essential truth that exists between.

loneviking
April 17, 2012, 09:22 PM
Whether you like the way Nugent said it or not, what he spoke had a lot of truth to it. Anyone who cares to look into the history books can quickly see some very close parallels between our country today and our country in 1859 to 1860. The only question for me is how one points out where this is all likely to end up. You can be very blunt,like Ted or you can soft peddle the message using PC speech.

mljdeckard
April 17, 2012, 09:25 PM
All news is biased. The difference is, Fox's coverage is much more complete. They will run stories that the other networks won't mention at all until they look foolish for ignoring them in the first place. It is up to every viewer of all news to filter the bull and make their own decisions.

xXxplosive
April 17, 2012, 09:29 PM
So what would you rather have hime do.....

Stand outside a polling place with bats and intimidate voters as the come to vote.
Place a $10,000.00 bounty on a man's head in violation of the Rico Statute.

Whether you agree or not he excercised his 1st A right...at least he didn't break any Federal Laws and have them give another pass as they do to there brothers.

General Tso
April 17, 2012, 09:33 PM
But RKBA is different than right and left. Both side will sell us out. Look at the stupid gun laws on the books now. Why don't they fight more to get rid of those? I think Nugent is more about partisan politics than RKBA. Bush 41, 43, Reagan, Clinton, Romney, Obama are all anti-gun. Look at legislation they support. Sometimes it's *Better the devil you know than the one you don't*.

General Tso
April 17, 2012, 09:34 PM
I just think that type of speech does more harm than good.

opsman
April 17, 2012, 09:35 PM
Whether you like Mr. Nugent or not he has the right to his opinion where ever he happens to be, just the same as you and I have the right to ours. I believe Mr. Nugent tells it like it is, and obviously is not politically correct, but if you do not like what he has to say then do not listen. I don't like a lot of things that our current president says, along with a lot of the elected officials. I wish I had the microphone where millions could hear what I have to say.

JRH6856
April 17, 2012, 09:38 PM
I just think that type of speech does more harm than good.

I may disagree with what you say, but I don't deny your right to say it.

Nushif
April 17, 2012, 09:47 PM
I may disagree with what you say, but I don't deny your right to say it.

I don't think at this point the discussion is about the "right to say" anything. The point of discussion at this point is what this INVITED GUEST SPEAKER of a NON-PARTISAN organization said, which you know, wasn't very non-partisan. That's what peeves me, personally.
But all this aside, we're talking right now about the effect this will have on our continued fight for constitutional carry everywhere in the US. And I don't think it was a net bonus.

Remember. Ted Nugent as far as I'm aware didn't step out of the crowd and grab the mic. He was an invited guest speaker. This means that whatever he says at a certain point is backed by the host, in this case the NRA.

He has the right to say whatever he wants, as do all of us. But that doesn't mean it's gonna help our case, or be of a net positive.

[edit]
Constitutional carry and gun ownership in the US is our goal, right? I mean, everyone, right? Or am I missing something here?

rajb123
April 17, 2012, 09:51 PM
There have never been any NRA leaders who have made controversial statements in public!

Chuck Heston: "You will take my guns from my cold dead hands"

Wayne Lapierre: "ATF agents are jack-booted government thugs"


Did I miss anyone? The point is that these kind of statements are often made by NRA bigs to rally the troops, raise money, make waves and cause people to think.

jcwit
April 17, 2012, 09:53 PM
Remember. Ted Nugent as far as I'm aware didn't step out of the crowd and grab the mic. He was an invited guest speaker. This means that whatever he says at a certain point is backed by the host, in this case the NRA.

In case you missed it, he also is on the board of directors, elected to that office by the membership. So I doubt the word "guest" applies here.

JRH6856
April 17, 2012, 10:00 PM
I don't think at this point the discussion is about the "right to say" anything. The point of discussion at this point is what this INVITED GUEST SPEAKER of a NON-PARTISAN organization said, which you know, wasn't very non-partisan. That's what peeves me, personally.
But all this aside, we're talking right now about the effect this will have on our continued fight for constitutional carry everywhere in the US. And I don't think it was a net bonus.

Remember. Ted Nugent as far as I'm aware didn't step out of the crowd and grab the mic. He was an invited guest speaker. This means that whatever he says at a certain point is backed by the host, in this case the NRA.

He has the right to say whatever he wants, as do all of us. But that doesn't mean it's gonna help our case, or be of a net positive.

[edit]
Constitutional carry and gun ownership in the US is our goal, right? I mean, everyone, right? Or am I missing something here?

You say the NRA is non partisan yet you say as a guest speaker, TN represents the views of the NRA. Doesn't sound so non-partisan if that is true. I think you will find a disclaimer published somewhere to the effect that "the views of NRA members are their own and do not represent the views of the NRA" even though they may to some exent.

The protection and extension the the Second Amendment is one goal, certainly, but I suspect most of us have others, as well. One of mine is the defeat at the polls of any politician that has shown himself or herself to be more of a threat to the Constitution than a Protector and Defender of that document. Otherwise the 2A won't mean much. You may have other, differing goals and that is your right.

Nushif
April 17, 2012, 10:01 PM
[...] So I doubt the word "guest" applies here.

Very true!

Which makes it even worse. He's an ELECTED OFFICIAL of the NRA and continues doing what he seems to do best. So not only is he a guest speaker that some guy who did the inviting agrees with, but some kind of majority of the member base agrees with it.

Are you seeing where I'm going with this, or is this really not getting through? This isn't good for our shared cause. This is very, very tangibly bad for enhancing private gun ownership. Not like Z-Max bullets or Tacticool. This is an ELECTED OFFICIAL causing damage.

Guillermo
April 17, 2012, 10:13 PM
I have never been more embarrassed by some of my fellow High-Roaders.

Please Mr. Moderator...having a thread just bashing Ted Nugent, a very popular pro-gun personality is

A- not high road
B- serves no purpose
C- is nauseating

PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD

Walkalong
April 17, 2012, 10:17 PM
We are in a non shooting war for our freedoms. obama hates Capitalism and loves Marxism. That is why he will not salute our flag but held his hand over his heart for mother russia's.

Nugent is definitely inflammatory at times, but I love his steadfast championing of gun rights and freedom.

If that makes me a right wing nut job, that's OK. I prefer Patriot, but what the heck. :)


A- not high road
B- serves no purposeCannot disagree with this.

rajb123
April 17, 2012, 10:18 PM
I thought Ted's analogy was inspiring and I don't beleive it hurts the cause of gun owners at all.

The NRA is a now a political organization that raises funds and gives them to candidates that support their cause. Their role as a fighter of bad gun control laws in the courts is minimal and other organizations are much more effective in doing this function.

The real battle against bad gun control laws is being faught in the federal, state and local courts and the NRA is playing a very minor role here.

Guillermo
April 17, 2012, 10:20 PM
Nugent is definitely inflammatory at times, but I love his steadfast championing of gun rights and freedom.


Totally true, which is why 3 pages of bashing him is bad.

Also, this is activism...there is the call to action?

Guillermo
April 17, 2012, 10:21 PM
federal, state and local courts and the NRA is playing a very minor role here

Heller?

Tom609
April 17, 2012, 10:26 PM
He has the right to his opinion, but it sure isn't mine. I'm in the camp with those that see him as a detriment to the cause. He rallies the base, but alienates those we would like to convert.

hso
April 17, 2012, 10:28 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=270671

no plan of action

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