School me on Denver Open Carry.


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thefish
April 17, 2012, 10:54 PM
OK, second try, not sure what happened to the first post.

It's my understanding that OC is a bad idea in Denver. And by Denver I mean Denver County, The City of Denver, and Downtown Denver.

The question is what exactaly is "concealed". If you have a CCW, and you are in "denver", and you print, or part of your weapon becomes exposed from a shirt riding up, etc, are you in for a hassle (or worse).

Aside from the prohibited places, like courthouse, school, federal building, what other areas would be strictly prohibited to CCW. Is there any acid test, such as "if they charge admission, you can't CCW?

I'd like to carry when in Denver (periodically), and am weighing the options between small IWB, and pocket. Obviously, IWB would be preferred.

I did a few searches, and didn't find what I was looking for, so point me in the right direction if you can.

Thanks in advance.

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DAP90
April 18, 2012, 10:54 AM
When it comes to open carry in Denver – don’t – it’s banned in Denver County. A few other places have some restrictions (Pueblo and Castle Rock I think).

As far as accidental exposures, it would be best if you didn’t do that either. I don’t know of any specific rules governing this in Denver but I doubt that would stop you from getting hassled.

Overall Colorado is pretty gun friendly. Denver is not.

This is a good place to start.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

http://www.rmgo.org/gun-law-faqs

CoRoMo
April 18, 2012, 11:20 AM
See here...
http://www.rmgo.org/gun-law-faqs/open-carry
Where can I not Open Carry? Several places. These fit into four main categories: Prohibited by Law Areas, Prohibiting Municipalities, Prohibiting Private Businesses and Prohibiting Private Residences.
...
Prohibiting Municipalities. (Denver, Arvada and Breckenridge. Please message us if you know of other municipalities who ban open carry).

There used to be an image of a Denver Police Department letter here -> http://www.rmgo.org/2004-news/dps-carry-letter

I can't get it to load and I believe it might have been pulled from RMGO. If anyone can acquire it, it'd be worth saving and/or posting.

NavyLCDR
April 18, 2012, 11:43 AM
A few other places have some restrictions (Pueblo and Castle Rock I think).

State law makes it illegal for municipalies and counties to ban open carry. Denver/Denver County won an exception in Court, but they are the only municipality exempt.

X-Rap
April 18, 2012, 12:08 PM
I don't think CO has a law allowing OC but they don't have one forbidding it, that is my understanding. Denver is the place that actually forbids OC but some anti PD's can and will charge you with Brandishing if they get complaints.
The charge probably won't stick but it will cost you in time and money.
The west side of the state is pretty gun friendly and I have not heard of any gun carriers complaining of being hassled for OC or Printing and I carry concealed in Denver without any trouble. Check and see but I think there is a 20 rd capacity limit in Denver as well.

DAP90
April 18, 2012, 12:23 PM
State law makes it illegal for municipalies and counties to ban open carry. Denver/Denver County won an exception in Court, but they are the only municipality exempt.

Which some places may be getting around by not outright banning it, just restricting it.

According to Rocky Mountain Gun Owners (2nd link in my post above) Castle Rock has an open carry ban on nearly every city owned location.

9.04.165 Open carry of firearms.
It is unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties, to openly carry a firearm in any Town-owned or -operated building, or on any Town-owned or -operated park, recreation area or property upon which the Town Manager has directed to be posted a notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited. (Ord. 2003-41 §1, 2003)

Found here: http://www.colocode.com/castlerock/castlerock_09.pdf

Pueblo supposedly has a law against open carry in places that sell alcohol. I couldn’t confirm that with a quick Google search but I couldn’t say for sure that it’s incorrect either.

Even if these are in violation of the state law (and the Meyers decision as I believe it’s called) unless they’ve been challenged and overturned wouldn’t they still be in force? I wouldn’t want to be the test case if they are.

788Ham
April 18, 2012, 12:45 PM
I could be mistaken, don't think so though, Denver has an ordinance about carrying rifle, shotguns in the vehicle inside city limits. Now, if you're just passing through, on your way to the hunting fields, you're fine, unless you're stopped for a traffic offense. They're so unfriendly in Denver, I don't go there unless its on business, then I ride the RTD transit bus.

Robert
April 19, 2012, 08:27 AM
State law makes it illegal for municipalies and counties to ban open carry.
Can you cite the CRS? Unless something has changed there are no state laws limiting open carry but there are no laws allowing it either. The state takes a "since there are no laws against it, then it is ok" stance. Citys may make up their own mind on the matter. But then it has been a few years since I studied the CRS in depth.

Amendment to CRS 18-12-105
"Concealed" means placed out of sight so as not to be discernible or apparent by ordinary observation. People ex rel. O.R., 220 P.3d 949 (Colo. App. 2008).

NavyLCDR
April 19, 2012, 11:11 AM
Can you cite the CRS? Unless something has changed there are no state laws limiting open carry but there are no laws allowing it either. The state takes a "since there are no laws against it, then it is ok" stance. Citys may make up their own mind on the matter. But then it has been a few years since I studied the CRS in depth.

Amendment to CRS 18-12-105

CRS:

29-11.7-101. Legislative declaration.

(1) The general assembly hereby finds that:

(a) Section 3 of article II of the state constitution, the article referred to as the state bill of rights, declares that all persons have certain inalienable rights, which include the right to defend their lives and liberties;

(b) Section 13 of article II of the state constitution protects the fundamental right of a person to keep and bear arms and implements section 3 of article II of the state constitution;

(c) The general assembly recognizes a duty to protect and defend the fundamental civil rights set forth in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this subsection (1);

(d) There exists a widespread inconsistency among jurisdictions within the state with regard to firearms regulations;

(e) This inconsistency among local government laws regulating lawful firearm possession and ownership has extraterritorial impact on state citizens and the general public by subjecting them to criminal and civil penalties in some jurisdictions for conduct wholly lawful in other jurisdictions;

(f) Inconsistency among local governments of laws regulating the possession and ownership of firearms results in persons being treated differently under the law solely on the basis of where they reside, and a person's residence in a particular county or city or city and county is not a rational classification when it is the basis for denial of equal treatment under the law;

(g) This inconsistency places citizens in the position of not knowing when they may be violating the local laws and therefore being unable to avoid violating the law and becoming subject to criminal and other penalties.

(2) Based on the findings specified in subsection (1) of this section, the general assembly concludes that:


(a) The regulation of firearms is a matter of statewide concern;

(b) It is necessary to provide statewide laws concerning the possession and ownership of a firearm to ensure that law-abiding persons are not unfairly placed in the position of unknowingly committing crimes involving firearms.

NavyLCDR
April 19, 2012, 11:13 AM
Can you cite the CRS? Unless something has changed there are no state laws limiting open carry but there are no laws allowing it either. The state takes a "since there are no laws against it, then it is ok" stance. Citys may make up their own mind on the matter. But then it has been a few years since I studied the CRS in depth.

Amendment to CRS 18-12-105

AND:

29-11.7-103. Regulation - type of firearm - prohibited.

A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.

29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.

A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

thefish
April 19, 2012, 06:05 PM
Thanks guys.

I've been looking at a few links. Sure isn't cut and dry.

I may opt for pocket carry instead of IWB when in Denver. Seems like it may be a safer (from a legal standpoint) alternative.

Robert
April 21, 2012, 08:58 AM
Title 29, wow I would have never even thought about that. Thanks!

Salmoneye
April 21, 2012, 10:11 AM
thefish

Thanks guys.

I've been looking at a few links. Sure isn't cut and dry.

I may opt for pocket carry instead of IWB when in Denver. Seems like it may be a safer (from a legal standpoint) alternative.

Sure sounds to me like Denver does not want you carrying concealed or open:

Denver, Colorado, Code of Ordinances >> TITLE II - REVISED MUNICIPAL CODE >> Chapter 38

Sec. 38-117. - Dangerous or deadly weapons—Prohibitions.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement officer in the performance of duty, to wear under their clothes, or concealed about their person any dangerous or deadly weapon, including, but not by way of limitation, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, air gun, gas operated gun, spring gun, sling shot, blackjack, nunchaku, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any substance whatsoever, or any switchblade knife, gravity knife, or any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3˝) inches in length, or any explosive device, incendiary device or bomb, or other dangerous or deadly weapon.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement officer in the performance of duty, to carry, use or wear any dangerous or deadly weapon, including, but not by way of limitation, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, air gun, gas operated gun, spring gun, sling shot, blackjack, nunchaku, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any substance whatsoever, or switchblade knife, gravity knife, or any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3˝) inches in length, or any explosive device, incendiary device or bomb, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon.

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=10257

Pilot
April 21, 2012, 10:22 AM
Any CCW permit issued in Colorado allows you to carry CONCEALED in Denver. My Douglas County permit included.

Salmoneye
April 21, 2012, 10:26 AM
Any CCW permit issued in Colorado allows you to carry CONCEALED in Denver. My Douglas County permit included.

Seeing as Denver fought and won on section (b) I posted above, I would be very hesitant about carrying anything concealed as spelled out in section (a)...

Not saying you are wrong, but if they can get a favorable decision on one, I would surely not want to be the 'test case' oon the other...

NavyLCDR
April 21, 2012, 12:46 PM
Sure sounds to me like Denver does not want you carrying concealed or open:

Denver, Colorado, Code of Ordinances >> TITLE II - REVISED MUNICIPAL CODE >> Chapter 38

Sec. 38-117. - Dangerous or deadly weapons—Prohibitions.

Seeing as Denver fought and won on section (b) I posted above, I would be very hesitant about carrying anything concealed as spelled out in section (a)...

Not saying you are wrong, but if they can get a favorable decision on one, I would surely not want to be the 'test case' oon the other...

Why would they challenge their own municipal code in court?

"(f) It shall not be an offense under 38-117(a) or 38-117(b) if:

(1) The person, at the time of carrying the concealed weapon, holds a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, C.R.S., prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, holds a valid permit or a temporary emergency permit to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to state law and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law; or

(2) The person is carrying the weapon concealed within a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for hunting or for lawful protection of such person's or another person's person or property, while travelling, and the weapon is not an explosive device, incendiary device, or a bomb. If the weapon is a firearm being transported for hunting, it shall be unloaded while being carried within the private automobile or other private means of conveyance. "

X-Rap
April 21, 2012, 01:14 PM
Bottom line for Denver is don't get caught with a gun open carrying, I would not let it print, flash or any of the other things that might cause you to be exposed. As for some of the other places in the state, you might have some trouble or you might not depending on the locals attitude and how much they intend to hassle the citizen. There are some liberal bastions in CO and those are the places I'd expect a problem.

Salmoneye
April 21, 2012, 01:19 PM
Why would they challenge their own municipal code in court?

Good question...

I did not read that far down...

I stand corrected...

NavyLCDR
April 21, 2012, 09:39 PM
Good question...

I did not read that far down...

I stand corrected...

However, your statement below is still 100% correct.....

Sure sounds to me like Denver does not want you carrying concealed or open

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