.22 CB Longs


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crooked stripe
April 18, 2012, 04:31 PM
For the past months during the cold weather I have practicing with CCI .22 cb's. I have been able to hold quarter sized groups at 25 yards. I use a Ruger MKIII with a red dot on top. Yesterday I purchased a CZ 453 American and have been shooting the cb's through it till I can get to the range. I can't even hold a 1/2 dollar group to save my behind. I know the cb's are no where close to target loads but what makes the difference in the shooting patterns? I figured the rifle would hold better groups than the pistol.
Anyone have any experience with these? I can't wait to shoot some LR loads just to prove the CZ is the tack driver everyone claims. rj

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Rail Driver
April 18, 2012, 04:34 PM
The twist rate on the CZ is different than on the Ruger. That will make a difference. It also might just not like that particular ammo (assuming your shooting is consistently accurate).

As an aside, where do you find CCI CB Long? I haven't been able to find them anyplace down here in FL. All I have been able to find are CB short.

crooked stripe
April 18, 2012, 04:45 PM
Walmart here in Oh. I just assumed it is the cb's making my shooting so bad. I hope. Will try the Ruger after dinner to compair and see if I got a bad box of amo.

Rail Driver
April 18, 2012, 04:46 PM
Try shooting the CZ from a rest of some sort to be sure it's the gun or ammo and not you, as well. I know quite a few people that have trouble shooting rifles of any kind due to a lack of arm and wrist strength for whatever reason.

rcmodel
April 18, 2012, 04:53 PM
CB's almost run out of enough velicity to get out of a rifle barrel.

You are probably getting much more consistent velocity in the shorter pistol barrel.

rc

DM~
April 18, 2012, 05:29 PM
CB's almost run out of enough velicity to get out of a rifle barrel.
rc

You must not have used many of them, i've shot over 2 bricks of them.

They DO hit harder out of a rifle, and i've shot/killed numerous coons with head shots. I head shot a cat at at over 20 yards with one out of my Henry and it dropped in it's tracks, it also penetrated all the way through it's head.

They work VERY good at short range out of my Henrys and also out of my old Savage. Those are the rifles i use them out of the most.

DM

Mauser lover
April 18, 2012, 05:33 PM
Is it possible that the different barrel length is what is doing it? Maybe the extra barrel length is adding too much friction and slowing down the slug too much for the amount of rifling that the CZ has. Maybe? Just a wild guess.....

hardluk1
April 18, 2012, 05:35 PM
Go to a LGS and order them if thats what you want .Also don't forget CCI's Quiet ammo. 40gr bullet 64db noisy same fps as other light bullet cb's and it looks like any other 22lr. but only 710fps. My wifes rifle with 16" barrel or my old remington 511 with a 25" barrel will shoot them right at 3/4" at 25 yards. Not accurate but make a good plinker apr hunting bullet. Oh cheap. at 2.84 or about for a box of 50 rounds.

stumpers
April 18, 2012, 05:37 PM
My experience has been that CBs are more consistent and accurate out of pistols than rifles. Same with Aguila Colibri.

Also, Colibris have never hung up in my rifle barrel, but I have experienced weak shots that make me nervous about it happening at some point - so I heed the warning to only use in pistols.

rcmodel
April 18, 2012, 05:40 PM
You must not have used many of them, i've shot over 2 bricks of them.I'm on #three brick of Aquila Clobri. I use them for action testing & preliminary sighting in scopes in the basement a lot.

I have stuck them in a 26" barrel Winchester 52.

Never in a 24" or shorter.

I was just saying that it is more likely he will get velocity variation in a tight CZ rifle barrel then a handgun barrel.

rc

tightgroup tiger
April 18, 2012, 06:02 PM
I don't have any experience with the cx453 but I agree with Rail Driver that the rifling twist is different and that may be causing the difference in the groups that you are experiencing.

I wouldn't try to find 22 long ammo from anyone, I would go with Long rifle in subsonics for your rifle so you don't have such a long leade to the riflings with the bullet that you would have with the shorts. I expect the CZ 453 accuracy is based on using Long Rifle shells where the bullet is much closer to the riflings than it is when using shorts.

I'm surprised you get that kind of accuracy from shorts with any gun except one chambered for shorts explicitly.

Aguila make a subsonic called the Super Colibri that will run at 750fpm out the barrel (I don't know what length barrel they used) compared to the standard Colibri with only runs at around 350fp out of a pistol barrel. ( they are not recomended to be used in rifles). The shell cases they use for these are long rifle.

Chamber leade and rifling would be the only differences that I could think of.

Hope this helps you in some way.

Rail Driver
April 18, 2012, 06:10 PM
I don't have any experience with the cx453 but I agree with Rail Driver that the rifling twist is different and that may be causing the difference in the groups that you are experiencing.

I wouldn't try to find 22 long ammo from anyone, I would go with Long rifle in subsonics for your rifle so you don't have such a long leade to the riflings with the bullet that you would have with the shorts. I expect the CZ 453 accuracy is based on using Long Rifle shells where the bullet is much closer to the riflings than it is when using shorts.

I'm surprised you get that kind of accuracy from shorts with any gun except one chambered for shorts explicitly.

Aguila make a subsonic called the Super Colibri that will run at 750fpm out the barrel (I don't know what length barrel they used) compared to the standard Colibri with only runs at around 350fp out of a pistol barrel. ( they are not recomended to be used in rifles). The shell cases they use for these are long rifle.

Chamber leade and rifling would be the only differences that I could think of.

Hope this helps you in some way.
.22 long and .22 long rifle use the same case, different bullet and powder charge. The leade difference between .22lr and .22l is maybe a couple millimeters different, max. The difference between the .22lr (or long) and short is appreciably different. Obviously accuracy will fall off firing shorts (and less so, longs) in a long rifle chamber. That is definitely one consideration here, but I think the bigger consideration in this case is the "tighter" barrel on the CZ, combined with the faster twist rate.

crooked stripe
April 18, 2012, 06:45 PM
The cb's shoot rather well in the Ruger MKIII but not good enough to shoot in the league. I shoot Federal target loads for that. I have to wait till I get to the range to shoot the LR's. I think rc is right, not enough umph out the barrel for any kind of accuracy with the cb's. The bad groups took me by suprise out of the CZ. I was expecting near perfection. Thank you for the replies. rj

Certaindeaf
April 18, 2012, 07:10 PM
Doesn't a standard velocity LR reach maximum velocity in around a 13" barrel?

CountryUgly
April 18, 2012, 07:40 PM
My 2 cents.....the gun just don't like the round I run into this very problem between my .22's all the time. I find something the rifle or pistol likes buy a bunch and the other refuses to eat it:uhoh:

bhk
April 18, 2012, 07:49 PM
Another vote for trying the new CCI Quiets. They tend to be MUCH more accurate in all my .22s than any form of CBs. It is the 40 grain bullet that makes the difference. IMHO, it is by far the best of the sub-800fps ammo. If you don't mind a little more noise, run straight out and buy good subsonic target ammo. Worth every penny.

tightgroup tiger
April 19, 2012, 04:42 PM
22 long and .22 long rifle use the same case

Rail Driver, You know I never noticed that. I'm glad you pointed it out. I though all this time the case on 22long and Long rifles were different lengths.

Learn something new every day.

Deltaboy
April 19, 2012, 09:53 PM
CB's are great for Rat work.

CZguy
April 20, 2012, 12:36 AM
Just thinking.....when was the last time .22 long was made?

Even as a kid I only remember seeing LR and shorts.

Chris-bob
April 20, 2012, 04:02 AM
I love shooting CCI .22 short and long in my Savage 29A. Tack driver and quiet! I pick them up at Wal-mart.

Flopsweat
April 20, 2012, 07:06 AM
Just try a bunch of different brands. The 453 is a very accurate rifle. I have its predecessor, the 452. Mine shoots sub-MOA at 100 yards with American Eagle CPHP 40gr. I know that's not subsonic, but I do recall getting similar accuracy out of at least two different subsonics. I don't remember off-hand what brands they were, but I can look them up if you want.

BTW, if you like subsonics and CZ rifles, see if you can get hold of a CZ 452 Ultra Lux. They have a 26.8" barrel. Very, very quiet with subsonics and remarkably accurate. The long sight radius makes the iron sights very easy to use, but they do have a rail for a scope too.

crooked stripe
April 20, 2012, 08:32 AM
The CCI shorts have done the trick. I think the barrel on the CZ is just to tight for the cb's. On my trip to the range yesterday I ran close to 1,000 rounds through the CZ and was impressed how accurate that rifle is. I feel I made a good decision with my purchase. I looked for the 22 quiets and they are sold out everywhere I looked. I sighed up for a notify me at Midway. I have about 5 bricks of the cb's left and will save them for my pistols and put a large order in for the quiets. The old gun shop in my area has longs and by the looks of the labels they have been there a while. All yellowed. I'm not sure why someone would buy them. $20 and change buys a brick but I can buy the bulk amo for $13-$15 for 550. Thanks a ton for the information. As always THR comes through. Hoping to get into some rabbits and squirrels here this fall.

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