Kahr CM9 woes


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GratefulGuy1234
April 18, 2012, 08:38 PM
Hello all -
Just wanted to share my story for those considering a Kahr firearm. I have a Kahr CM9 and I have had it for about 4 months. In that time, the firearm has been to the factory now 3 times. I sent it in with 'nosedive jam' issues well after the break in period at a rate of about 10%, and with the slide locking back when the mag wasn't empty.
It came back and now it doesn't nose dive, but I still have the slide locking back issue. So, we'll see how they do this time.
I also paid to have them <the factory!> install night sights right when I bought the gun, and can you believe that the front sight fell off the first time I took it to the range. :cuss:
So I found the screw and put it back on, but after a call to customer care they suggested that I send the firearm back to them... so when they had it, they replaced the front sight so it wouldn't fall off again. Well, when at the range to proof their work (and burning up my money with JHP rounds) the sight fell off again. :cuss:
So, I have a firearm I have spent more than $250 in range fees and ammo on... plus I have all the time sending it back and forth invested, the cost of the night sights, etc and I have not yet had a trip to the range without issue. :banghead:
I really am frustrated, to say the least. I have read post after post at the kahr forums where people have all sorts of issues. A lot of folks over there want to help, but it's staggering the number of poor reports for the CM9 and PM9... talk of sanding down parts on the gun to make it work right, etc. It's just wild. It's only my experience, and only with this firearm but after this I will never consider a Kahr ever again.

Thanks -
Scott

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FruitCake
April 18, 2012, 08:49 PM
Sorry to hear about the problems you are having.
I purchased a new P380 and it was a toilet from the getgo.

Traded it in on a big loss.
For the prices they ask for the firearms (Kahr) I thought I would get a good pocket carry but I think the only thing I paid for was looks and ergonomics.
Reliability was a negative.
I really hope you get the issues worked out. I've had a few problems with lots of my other pistols but after breakin in period they just go Away.
The P380 was just a nightmare.

Ledgehammer
April 18, 2012, 08:56 PM
That stinks man. My cm9 has been pretty much flawless. I love it. Maybe I got lucky though.

Lefty Wright
April 18, 2012, 09:06 PM
Too bad! Hate to hear that quality has slipped. Two CM9's and a PM9. The oldest is five and newest about two years old. All have been flawless.

wow6599
April 18, 2012, 09:49 PM
I have a PM9, wife has a CM9. They are both great firearms......guess everybody makes a lemon now and then. How many different magazines have you had problems with? Have you asked Kahr for a new CM9?

jitdc
April 18, 2012, 10:32 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your CM9 woes. I recently purchased a new CM9 and have put 225 rounds through it, all flawless. 200 UMC 115gr FMJ rounds, 25 Hornady TAP FPD 124gr, not a single failure of any kind.

I love the little gun and I hate to see someone get a bad one. I hope Kahr makes it right for you!

skt239
April 18, 2012, 10:37 PM
Did Kahr tell you what was done to correct the issue? Have you tried a different set of mags? I'd ask Kahr for a new set.

Coop45
April 18, 2012, 10:40 PM
My PM9 has been flawless.

BamAlmighty
April 18, 2012, 10:44 PM
CM9 here, just under 400 flawless rounds. Installed my own front night sight early on, hasn't fallen off or come loose.

"I have read post after post at the kahr forums where people have all sorts of issues. A lot of folks over there want to help, but it's staggering the number of poor reports for the CM9 and PM9..."

I have read the Glocks and found a STAGGERING number of poor reports... jokes aside you can go to any forum dedicated to a certain gun and found a higher number of problem threads. Problems with the CM/PM9 is no where near as wide spread as you're making it out to be. People can see that for themselves by checking out the Kahr forum on their own. Not to mention the many people in this thread with great results with theirs.

LightningMan
April 18, 2012, 11:07 PM
Sorry to hear of your problems and hope they get resolved. FWIW, I believe every firearm manufacturer has had a lemon slip through QC, some more than others. Its what they do for you the customer, after the sale to make things right, this shows what kind of company they are, and if they believe in service after the sale. I have had 3 pistols which I could not solve their problems myself, which had to be sent back. A FN 5.7 Herstal; Great service, sent prepaid shipping tag and had it back in under 2 weeks.(awsome). Next a Steyr M40; (used) Had to pay shipping there but was repaired and back in just over 2 weeks. (pretty good for an older pistol not new to me) My latest is a Diamondback DB9; (used) will see how this one goes. (they will have had it 2 weeks within a couple days. LM

GratefulGuy1234
April 19, 2012, 12:16 AM
The first time they said they reworked the recoil spring and polished (ground down- from what it looks like) the feed ramp.

I have two mags, 6 rounders, and they seem to do the issue equally. There is a theory on kahrtalk where they suggest it could be rounds hitting the slide stop lever internally and preloading the slide stop. I mentioned this in the last letter I enclosed when I sent it back. When I put the slide lever in when the slide is off and I put a full mag in, the end of the round does contact the slide stop lever so I guess it's plausible. Some guys suggest that I could be making contact with the slide stop, but I don't shoot with my thumbs that close to the slide stop. In fact, I TRIED to lock the slide back using upward pressure with a thumb and it never did. Ahhh.

I totally realize that everyone makes a lemon here and there, it's just I had some high hopes and it seems it's such a fight to get it right so far. Trust me, I shoot it so well that I just WISH I could be a kahr fanatic. I shoot it much better than my G19... figure that one out! ;)

As for the front sight, I will probably just take it apart and put some blue loctite on the screw and forget about it forever when I get it back.

We will see, I will keep it until someone offers me a great trade or I trust it again...

Thanks for the input -
Scott

dirtengineer
April 19, 2012, 12:38 AM
That sucks. I would stay on it until they make it right. I would also make sure they pay for the shipping back and forth until it is right.

I have a CM9 and it has been just fine, but I have read some real horror stories. Go on over to the Kahrtalk forum. The only thing that I haven't been happy with is the magazine quality.

hardluk1
April 19, 2012, 10:36 AM
To bad your not near buy to look yours over. My cm9 is also a slick little pistol out of the box. 750 rounds fired with a 6, 7 and 8 round mags and no issues. Carry ammo is 124gr gd +P from georgia arms. Practice ammo is whats cheap. Take everything down , smooth all edges that are sharp even mag followers lube well and let a friend that you feel is a quality shooter with small pistols give it a run. Mine even slowly working the slide will chamber rounds.
I bought my first kahr a cw9 from a guy that said it was junk. Runs like a pro for me. Go figure.

sharpenit
April 19, 2012, 05:01 PM
Dear GratefulGuy:

I'm sure you're enjoying hearing from everybody whose CM9 has worked flawlessly from the start. That's just what you want to hear, right?

Well, like you, I had a lot of problems with mine. None that required sending it back to the factory, but Kahr did have to send me a new recoil spring, and I had to adjust the slide-stop spring myself, and I did have problems with the mags sticking and the slide locking open when there were still rounds in the mag.

Instead of the 200-round break-in period that Kahr says might be necessary for proper functioning, mine took more than 400 rounds before it started working right.

In short, I feel your pain.

On the plus side, everybody who has had trouble with their Kahr, and there are plenty of us, has praised the willingness of Kahr customer service to make it right.

But like you, I'm wondering WHY THE EFF you or me or anybody should have to go through such grief with a brand-new gun that we paid serious $$$ for.

I'll keep my CM9 for now, but I don't think I'll ever buy another one.

Good luck, amigo.

greenlion
April 19, 2012, 06:27 PM
Shoot it left handed. That will solve the mystery of your thumbs hitting the slide lock lever. You can't hit it if your thumbs are on the other side. What was their explanation for the sights falling off ?? And it was the factory that installed them, and not the gun shop you ordered it from?

theicemanmpls
April 19, 2012, 06:35 PM
I was looking at the CM9 as my motorcycle leather jacket pistol. Thanks for the great postings.

I am interested in finding out what Kahr customer service does for the OP.

Kahr has a great product magazine. It is however, very hard to see the pistols, due to the models holding the product.

The All American 15th Edition is some great advertising. Pick one up at your LGS.

Ruger Redhawk
April 20, 2012, 06:04 PM
I bought my first kahr just before Christmas last year. It's the CM9. I haven't gotten to fire it yet and after reading this I wish now I hadn't bought it. I've read this complant and some over on the Kahr forum. I like the size and I was banking on Kahr's reputation. From what I've read Kahr's CS leaves allot to be desired. I've worked the slide several hundred times.

gym
April 20, 2012, 06:30 PM
Bought mine when they first came out, and the rumor was that the "moonies" owned the company, "remember those guys at the airports with the bald heads", Sun Yet Moon", or some such nonesense. Mine was awful from the get go, maybe the moonies cursed it. I tried everything to get it to fire more than 1 mag without a problem, some days it would actually shoot, and next day same crap. I chucked it, I don't waste time anymore with mysteries in firearms. If the guys who made it can't fix it, I don't want it. It was the only model they made when they first came out, maybe 12 years ago, or more. May have been p9, anyway that was the first and last Kahr I will ever own. You are not alone.

valnar
April 20, 2012, 06:39 PM
My Kahr P9 worked flawlessly from round 1. At 50 rounds I considered it broken in.

Ledgehammer
April 20, 2012, 07:08 PM
I bought my first kahr just before Christmas last year. It's the CM9. I haven't gotten to fire it yet and after reading this I wish now I hadn't bought it

I would suggest at least shooting it before jumping to any conclusions.

Fishbed77
April 20, 2012, 08:43 PM
My CM9 has been flawless. 100% reliable from the start. Likewise, my father's MK9 (basically the same pistol with a steel frame) is almost 10 years old and has never had a malfunction.

paperpounder
April 20, 2012, 09:17 PM
I bought my first kahr just before Christmas last year. It's the CM9. I haven't gotten to fire it yet and after reading this I wish now I hadn't bought it. I've read this complant and some over on the Kahr forum. I like the size and I was banking on Kahr's reputation. From what I've read Kahr's CS leaves allot to be desired. I've worked the slide several hundred times.

Seriously? This is a first. A pre-shooting gun whine.

Buy a gun, don't shoot it for 4 months, and then slap the brand because you've read some bad things about the guns. Is that called post purchase research? Shouldn't that be done first?


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

bdb benzino
April 20, 2012, 11:43 PM
Make sure its not your thumb accidentally pushing the slide lever causing it to lock back prematurely, this happens alot! You can also try having someone else shooting it.

Not really sure how they coild mess up installing the front night sight, all you have to do is throw a little lock-tight in the screw threads and your good to go. Thats what I did with my CW9, you can do it your self pretty easy if needed. Good luck!!

The Lone Haranguer
April 21, 2012, 02:36 AM
Sorry to hear about your "woes." I don't know what to say, except keep hammering on them until they get it right, at least WRT the front sight. It is possible, as mentioned, that your thumb might be contacting the slide stop while shooting. This is a little gun, with not a lot of flexibility as to where you can place your digits. And I would like to see the corners of that slide stop rounded a little bit.

Unless something has gone downhill in the past few years, I wouldn't say your service problems are widespread or typical. Both Kahrs I have owned needed some work to make them run to my standards, but at least they fixed them the first time. An E9 (a now discontinued "economy," less finished version of the K9) purchased in 2000 never had any functioning problems, but occasionally tossed brass at my head ... as well as the front sight falling off. :uhoh: They lowered the ejection port and put a new front sight on, which stayed put. The PM9 I purchased in 2006 had severe functioning problems, but they replaced the barrel and recoil spring and I had no problems since. It became one of my most frequently carried guns, filling my "pocket gun" niche.

Ruger Redhawk
April 21, 2012, 06:50 PM
Seriously? This is a first. A pre-shooting gun whine.

Buy a gun, don't shoot it for 4 months, and then slap the brand because you've read some bad things about the guns. Is that called post purchase research? Shouldn't that be done first?


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
I wouldn't say it's a pre shooting whine. It might be perfect. I'm just going by what I've been reading and Kahr's CS. I want to start using this for my carry gun. I'm disabled and that's one of the main reasons I haven't fired it yet. Allot of days I can't get motivated. I have Glock's a Sig and other semi autos that have been flawless. I hoping this CM9 will be another one.

GratefulGuy1234
April 21, 2012, 08:24 PM
Shoot it left handed. That will solve the mystery of your thumbs hitting the slide lock lever. You can't hit it if your thumbs are on the other side. What was their explanation for the sights falling off ?? And it was the factory that installed them, and not the gun shop you ordered it from?
I have let someone else shoot it, the rangemaster and he did manage to have it lock back once on him. I also tried it left handed, as recommended by the kahr forum guys and I did have it happen once iirc. Believe it or not, when I told the rep that I tried shooting left handed and it malfunctioned he wanted to go after my grip again... lol.
I hear all you guys talking about the slide stop being locked back by my thumb, but how come I can't make it lock back if I try by pressing up on the lever when shooting? Maybe the violence of the round going off is knocking me off it or the timing isn't right when I try to do it, but it seems odd.
As for the sight issue, they keep putting their head in the sand about it and NEVER once apologized about how ridiculous it was. And yep, this is FACTORY installed both times. So sad! I will definately go at it with some locktite when it gets back. I was just told not to by the tech on the phone because I was sending it back for the issue I was having.

I really wished I'd be one of the ones braggin' about my CM9... maybe I will someday!
Funny how I feel different about it all the time, one day I'm going to sell it the day it gets back... the next I'm planning on keeping it and willing to put some major JHP to 'proof' it.
Time will tell, let's see what happens. I put my contact info in the box and asked that a manager contact me about this experience... I am not holding my breath but would be ecstatic if they at least tried. They have been so mechanical about it, like we're talking about defective printer paper or something, not a $400 + SD weapon.

As for the gent who feels reluctant about his and hasn't shot it - I understand completely. I went into this thinking there could be some risk - and got friggin burned.

At least I found a rebate for $10 on remington JHP golden sabers - check their website. I get to recoup some of my loot - I wish it wasn't limited to $10!!

Scott

ctaylor
April 29, 2012, 05:08 PM
I bought one and had to send it back due light striker hits. The CS dept. at Kahr couldn't have been more professional and paid for shipping both ways. They had the pistol 14 days. They replaced the slide and the barrel. I haven't tested it yet, since I just got it back. I'm hopeful they fixed the issue. I really like the size, the trigger and it seems to be pretty accurate for what it is.

I did a lot of research before I bought. I was looking specifically for a 9MM that I could carry in my front pocket. I saw lots of comments from folks that really liked the CM9. I learned a valuable lesson from this...next time I won't google "CM9 Reviews", I'll google "CM9 Problems".

There are tons of reports on problems with these pistols, some that get fixed with one trip back to the factory and others that never seem to get resolved. Are there more complaints re: Kahrs than there are on, say, Glocks or Kimbers? Nobody can say for sure...not me, and not anyone else either. But since I am still doing research on pocket pistols I will say that there appear to be more Kahrs going back for service than the SIG 238, the Ruger LCP's, etc. Yep, Kahr service is really good service. All in all, though, I'd rather have a pistol I can trust than a service manager that I like.

I want mine to work, too, and maybe it will. Certainly it has a strike against it. It does look as if when you get a good one, you get a really good one. I'd sure rather have a good Kahr than a lot of the other options.

For those of you that did get a good one: congratulations. You hit "black" on the Kahr roulette wheel.

Scott-NC
April 29, 2012, 11:00 PM
I have a PM9. I didn't know about some folks having issues until after my first range visit. It had a couple FTF jams that damaged the cartridge- bent it right where the the bullet and brass meet. I went home, found the kahrtalk forum, saw something about racking the slide 500 times before ever firing it. This turned out to be just what it needed. It was so tight right out of the box. In fact, right out of the box the slide was so tight I could pull it back about half way and slowly let go and it would stick there! So I racked it about 100 times, stripped it down, cleaned and lubed it, and repeated that every night for about a week. Took it to the range and it work perfectly, and has since- a couple thousand rounds.

GratefulGuy1234
April 30, 2012, 01:01 PM
Still waiting on mine... I expect it in the next few days given the past as a predictor of how long they will have it. Funny thing is, I got a replacement font sight in the mail - it was promised to me weeks and weeks ago, more than a month, at least. Not sure what is up, they don't seem to have it together over there and that scares me.

Well, let's see if this thing works when I get it back...

Good luck all.
Scott

franco45
April 30, 2012, 08:05 PM
I hope it works out for you. I am one who has had good luck with my Kahrs. When they are right they are very nice pieces.

GratefulGuy1234
April 30, 2012, 11:39 PM
Well, I was surprised today by a call form Kahr's 'head gunsmith' who apologized for their neglect in not using loctite each of the two times they installed the front sight. I don't suspect I will need to worry about the sight when it gets back. That's great.
I inquired about the functionality of the weapon and he said that he was still going to work on that part. He said that it looked like the slide stop was being pre-loaded by the round that was next up in the magazine, and was causing it to catch occasionally. He did assure me that he would take every step needed to ensure that I would have a fully functioning weapon that didn't need to come back to the factory.

So, I'm happy they called - and I'm glad at least one person has assured me that they will make SURE I don't have an issue going forward.

I'll keep this updated.

Scott

GratefulGuy1234
May 6, 2012, 04:57 PM
Took it out and it failed. Slide locked back prematurely on JHP round 37 or 38. It went on to fire another 50 no problem, but this means I still have not had a failure free range visit - EVER with this thing. They 'polished the slide stop lever', that's what the factory did to resolve my 'intermittent premature slide lock back' issue.

It's going with me to the next gun show to be traded for G26, airweight revolver, LCP, LCR, or sold at a huge loss with full disclosure. :cuss:

caveat emptor.

Scott

Sgt_R
May 7, 2012, 07:26 AM
I've read a lot of good things and a lot of bad things about Kahr pistols on the internet. I took a gamble on the brand a couple years ago and purchased a PM9 and a P380. After the recommended break-in period (200 rounds), both have been nearly flawless. I only have 2minor complaints:

1) The white "post" inserts in the rear sights fell out of both pistols within the first 500 rounds.

2) I have 3 magazines for the PM9. The baseplate of one of them likes to try to come off during firing (every few mags I have to "reset" it), and one of the other mags doesn't drop free like it should, so I only have 1 100% reliable magazine for EDC (I marked the other 2 for range use only).

So yes, in my experience, Kahr QC could use some work. However, if you get a good gun, they are really good. Both of mine are accurate, soft shooting, and reliable.

I don't know about their CS, because I've never called them (maybe I should... they might replace those 2 bad magazines).

R

Doghandler
May 8, 2012, 12:48 AM
...
1) The white "post" inserts in the rear sights fell out of both pistols within the first 500 rounds.

...



Is that post insert actually an insert or just paint ?, or did your rear sight actually just fall off?

QC seems to be a huge 21st century manufacturing issue. :o :banghead: :fire: Off Topic. Looks like GM is finally coming around. :evil:

Sgt_R
May 8, 2012, 04:48 AM
I think the rear sight is assembled in 2 pieces: the white insert goes in the sight body, then the sight body goes on the slide. Both guns still have rear sights, and their accuracy hasn't been affected in any way, but that little white insert is long gone.

R

zbird
May 8, 2012, 07:04 AM
I feel your pain, and I don't even want to bring up my feelings of a weapon that needs 200 rounds through it to function properly. If you bought this gun for personal defence you are making the right move. For me, a personal defence gun that will not be 100% reliable out of the box will get traded or sold for one that will.

meanmrmustard
May 8, 2012, 07:15 AM
I wouldn't say it's a pre shooting whine. It might be perfect. I'm just going by what I've been reading and Kahr's CS. I want to start using this for my carry gun. I'm disabled and that's one of the main reasons I haven't fired it yet. Allot of days I can't get motivated. I have Glock's a Sig and other semi autos that have been flawless. I hoping this CM9 will be another one.
Try not to base ALL of your opinions of this gun on the opinions of others, especially those on the net. Best to make discoveries on your own. I mean, if you ask us what we think, that's one thing. Online review with video? Even better. I try not to take stock in random forum threads. YouTube is not horrible, because the proof is right there on video. FWIW, I've heard, seen and read good things on the CM9.

BBDartCA
May 8, 2012, 09:51 AM
That stinks man. My cm9 has been pretty much flawless. I love it. Maybe I got lucky though.
Same here.

ForumSurfer
May 8, 2012, 10:14 AM
I wouldn't say it's a pre shooting whine. It might be perfect. I'm just going by what I've been reading and Kahr's CS.

And you always see more horror stories than praise stories. Most of us don't run out and write rave reviews when something woks flawlessly. Myself included! I quietly enjoyed my Kahr the entire time I had it despite all the negative comments floating about.

I want to start using this for my carry gun. I'm disabled and that's one of the main reasons I haven't fired it yet. Allot of days I can't get motivated.

Disability or not, no one should carry a gun they haven't shot. It's just dangerous for everyone.

I have Glock's a Sig and other semi autos that have been flawless. I hoping this CM9 will be another one.

You just don't know until you send lead downrange. My gen4 19 is the red headed step child of the glock world according to internet lore. Guess what...well over 5000 rounds and never a single failure. One of these days I may even put in the replacement recoil spring that glock sent me that cures problems I don't have. :)

elrowe
May 8, 2012, 10:38 AM
If you're using Golden Sabers, I'll bet it's not the ammo - wouldn't spend more to experiment on different loads. My PM9 feeds them without any issues. It also is fine with Win 115 GR FMJ target ammo if you want something cheaper while you work out the bugs. We did have a few FTFs during the break in period, but nothing after about 200 rounds or so. Sounds like you just got either a bad one-off or one of a bad lot. Have you tried comparing a partial serial number on the Kahr forums to see if others with similar SNs have problems?

WRGADog
May 8, 2012, 09:10 PM
After the appropriate number of rounds for break-in, they ave both worked flawlessly.

greenlion
May 8, 2012, 09:16 PM
Sorry to repeat what I already said, but you stated earlier that you shot it left handed and "if you recall correctly" you had a premature slide lock. Are you sure you did? You seem unsure, the way you worded it.

I know from experience that it is easy to hit that slide lock from underneath, especially with an unfamiliar gun. I had been shooting my GLOCK 23 for years, and the first IDPA match I shot it in I had 4 or 5 slide lock "malfunctions". Took a while before I realized that I was gripping harder during stress and my thumb rode up enough to activate it. I had no idea I was doing it. I've since changed my grip and no longer have the problem.

I'm not trying to prove you don't have a lemon, you may. Even if they do fix the problems the distrust of that gun will be in the back of your mind. I wish you had had a good first experience with them. I've had a PM9, K9, and P9 and they have all been 100%. You'd like them if you had a good one.

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