Belt-fed 12ga Upper for AR


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25cschaefer
April 19, 2012, 01:42 PM
I saw this on Youtube and didn't see that anybody had posted it here. If I ever had the problem of too many 12ga shells, I would want one. Looks like a hoot, obviously still working the kinks out.

Would it be DD, AOW, SBS, all, non? If it is just the upper reciver, how does that work.

If you it is a DD would the lower reciever then be a DD forever, is there a rule like that for machineguns and rifles? Once a ----- always a -----?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX7vwivR6cE

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Sam1911
April 19, 2012, 02:56 PM
If it is JUST the upper receiver, then it isn't either of those things.

But that's not much fun. If you want to put it on a registered M16 lower, then it is simply a machine gun.

If you want to put it on an AR-15 semi-auto lower, it would be an SBS.

If you want to build it on an AR-15 semi-auto PISTOL lower (egad!) it would be an AOW.

If you manufacture an SBS on a Form 1 (as you'd be doing here) you can convert it back to a 'Title I' firearm simply by getting rid of that upper. You can also notify the ATF to have it officially taken out of the registry.

I've never seen info to indicate whether that's possible with a Destructive Device, but I doubt that's what you'd be making here, absent an official declaration that your shotgun specifically IS one.

25cschaefer
April 19, 2012, 03:04 PM
I figured if installed on a registered M16 lower, it would be a destructive device as a Cobray Street Sweeper is.

I hadn't thought of the pistol lower, that would take it to a whole-nother level. Although, if you notice in the video, it is mounted to a big chunk of steel and is moving the heck out of it.

Rail Driver
April 19, 2012, 03:18 PM
I'd like to see production models of belt-fed AR uppers in various calibers, but with legal length barrels, for those of us that can't afford, or don't want to deal with the NFA mess.

Sam1911
April 19, 2012, 03:22 PM
I figured if installed on a registered M16 lower, it would be a destructive device as a Cobray Street Sweeper is.

If it's a machine gun, it's a machine gun. The Street Sweeper/Protecta wasn't full-auto.

Sam1911
April 19, 2012, 03:26 PM
I'd like to see production models of belt-fed AR uppers in various calibers, but with legal length barrels, for those of us that can't afford, or don't want to deal with the NFA mess.


http://www.dndguns.com/shrike.htm

One possible problem with making it 12 or 20 ga. is that it can fall into the Destructive Device category -- as it is over .50 caliber -- if it is deemed to be especially "non-sporting." So, even if it IS above the 18"/26" limits for an SBS, it can still be declared a Title II item.

Rail Driver
April 19, 2012, 03:31 PM
http://www.dndguns.com/shrike.htm

One possible problem with making it 12 or 20 ga. is that it can fall into the Destructive Device category -- as it is over .50 caliber -- if it is deemed to be especially "non-sporting." So, even if it IS above the 18"/26" limits for an SBS, it can still be declared a Title II item.

The "non-sporting"/DD thing had slipped my mind, thanks for reminding me about that one.

As far as the "production" of these, I suppose you're right in noting the "Shrike", but this page hasn't changed in at least the 2 and a half years that I've been aware of it. Seems to be vaporware, same as many VERY cool but relatively impractical or pointless firearms/accessories.

We have a large number of these units on order, delivery time is unknown at this time. They are & will continue to be in high demand. We will be offing them for sale (price yet to be determined, but will be higher than ARES Defense Systems current advertised price) If you would like to be notified when we have these in stock ready to ship please send us an email & you will be notified along with the price we are selling them for.

Sam1911
April 19, 2012, 03:33 PM
Yup! Seems for something "everyone" wants the demand must not really be great enough to warrant the effort to actually make any! :)

25cschaefer
April 19, 2012, 04:39 PM
Everybody wants one, they just don't want to pay for it.

I certainly would not complain if someone gave me a belt-fed, full-auto, 12ga pistol.

DoubleTapDrew
April 19, 2012, 06:27 PM
IIRC there were some Shrikes going out (for the bargain basement price of $5,000) a few years ago. I thought Ares went out of business though.

CleverNickname
April 20, 2012, 09:52 AM
If a firearm is a machinegun it can also be a destructive device. Those are the two types of title II firearms that the ATF doesn't treat as mutually exclusive.

Also the Shrike is available for purchase: http://www.dealernfa.com/Shrike_Info_Page.htm

Not all the people who originally preordered a Shrike years ago have gotten theirs yet, but that's a separate issue.

Sam1911
April 20, 2012, 09:53 AM
If a firearm is a machinegun it can also be a destructive device.
And transfers as...? On TWO form 4s?

Can you give examples?

Flyincedar
April 20, 2012, 01:09 PM
.......

CleverNickname
April 21, 2012, 03:26 PM
http://www.urban-armory.com/cart/proddetail.php?prod=mk19

It can shoot more than one shot per trigger pull (machine gun), and has a bore of >.50" (destructive device). I assume it would only be one form 4 because only one transfer is taking place.

Also to answer the OP, once a firearm no longer meets the definition of a destructive device, it's not a destructive device any more. Same thing with SBRs, SBSes, AOWs.

RTR_RTR
April 27, 2012, 03:15 AM
Oh come on, I get that it's as rare as it gets, but who's going to pay 300 grand for an mk19? It would probably be cheaper to establish a legitimate title ii

Ian
April 28, 2012, 07:26 AM
There was a 40mm Oerlikon full-auto AA gun for sale for a while that was also a double-stamp purchase.

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