What do i need for beginning reloading?


PDA






wolverine_173
April 19, 2012, 10:03 PM
I have no idea what im doing but want to learn. I dont have much money either. I mainly shoot 9mm. I know most people think its worthless to reload 9mm but thats pretty much what i shoot.

First what do i need to reload? Whats the bare minimum? I dont care if its slow to reload i just cant afford the 1 machine does it all.

Please post links to what i need to buy

If you enjoyed reading about "What do i need for beginning reloading?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
kingmt
April 19, 2012, 10:10 PM
How much can you afford & how many are you going to shoot.

I load more of 9mm then anything else.

TyGuy
April 19, 2012, 10:12 PM
Look at a local store on online (midwayusa.com) at a kit. I really like my Hornady Lock n Load kit. I watched craigslist and ended up getting one for $100 when they retail for $300 or so.

At the minimum, to reload handgun rounds, you'll need the following:
Press
Dies (not in the kit)
Powder thrower
Scale
Calipers (not in the kit)
Priming tool
Case cleaner (not in kit)
Reloading book

Eventually you'll probably want an electronic scale and calipers, but they are not a MUST

oneounceload
April 19, 2012, 10:19 PM
First thing you need is a book explaining it all, like Lyman's.

Buy the book read all the data, THEN read the stickies at the top of the page and THEN you'll have an idea of what you need, what you need to do, and what you need to buy

J_McLeod
April 19, 2012, 10:37 PM
First thing you need is a book explaining it all, like Lyman's.

Buy the book read all the data, THEN read the stickies at the top of the page and THEN you'll have an idea of what you need, what you need to do, and what you need to buy
+1

If you primarily want to reload 9mm, don't get a single stage. Get one of these (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41). It can be a single stage, but can also load 100-200 per hour once you get good at it. Get the upgrade to the pro auto disk too. Spend the extra money for a turret instead of the single stage, it's worth it. I load more 9mm than all the other 5 calibers I load combined. I think 9mm is best with a progressive, but the Lee turret works too. I would say that calipers are a MUST have for 9mm. Deep seating can greatly increase the pressure.

joecil
April 19, 2012, 10:41 PM
Yes buy a book first or better yet two or three. I started with 4 now plus a bunch of powder makers pamplets. The books are Modern Reloading 2nd addition, Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th addition, Hornady Reloading Handbook 7th addition and The ABCs or Reloading. I find them all very handy and often refer to them.

As for the equipment decide what you can afford and get the best you can for the money. I have mostly Lee but got a great price used when I bought my stuff and Lee is decent stuff that will hold up well as well as much cheaper than others. I also think they make some really good dies. However there are others out there I dream to be able to afford and can't but meanwhile I do plenty of the 4 calibers I load now with what I have.

bubbacrabb
April 19, 2012, 11:10 PM
Best advice I can give is put all the money you got and put it in a jar... Wait a bit and keep adding to that jar wait til you have the money to buy good stuff the first time. That way you don't have to spend it again later. I got a lot of money in my set up, and completely plan to use it for my whole life. So the initial cost will be spread over many years God willing.

dmazur
April 20, 2012, 12:07 AM
The cost of the reloading tools pales in comparison to the cost of buying the components, even if they are bought in bulk to reduce the unit cost.

I believe a lot of newcomers think reloading is a kind of magic solution to the high price of ammunition, even at lower quantities.

In general, this is false.

If you can shoot the same number of rounds after getting into reloading as before, and if this number is around 500/month or so, most will see a "break even" point after approximately a year. Cheaper calibers like 9mm take longer than more expensive calibers. (Estimate based on saving $0.20/round and a total cost, including components, of $1200. If you can get started with $600, break-even occurs sooner.)

The truth is, most simply shoot more after they get into reloading. Until it cuts into their food budget, kid's college fund, etc. Then they have to impose a limit.

So reloading doesn't save money. It just lets you shoot more. :)

James2
April 20, 2012, 12:57 AM
I was thinking there was a sticky on this question, but it seems to have went away. It comes up pretty often.

Good advice to buy a book first. The loading manuals have the information you require, both on tools and procedure.

Just a quick list:
Book
Press +bench to mount it on.
shell holder
dial caliper
die set
scales
powder measure
reamer comb. inside and outside (deburring tool)
Hand priming tool
Then components: primers, powder, bullets

A lot, if not all, of these tools show up on ebay. If you have the patience to shop there you may get set up pretty cheaply.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 01:20 AM
So how about this??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Precision-90030-breech-lock-Challenger-Reloader-Press-Kit-gun-ammo-NEW-/290698627272?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43aefd08c8#ht_808wt_698

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 01:24 AM
will any 9mm dies fit in this press or do i have to buy specific ones?

Scimmia
April 20, 2012, 01:32 AM
I think people are going a bit overboard for "bare minimum". You don't "need" a powder measurer, scale, reamer, hand priming tool, or a case cleaner. For absolute bare minimum for safe pistol reloading I would say:

Lee Reloader Press at fsreloading - $25
Lee Ram Prime at fsreloading - $9
Lee Die Set at fsreloading - $26
Digital Caliper at HarborFreight - $9

That's it, $69 + shipping. It won't be fast or easy, but it'll work. The shell holder for the press comes with the die set, as well as a dipper you can use for measuring powder. You'll just need to choose a powder that is in the right charge range for the included dipper. If you're just making the same round over and over, you only really need to read though the manual once so you understand what's going on, so you can hopefully borrow one from someone for a weekend. A powder measurer and scale would help immensely, but aren't absolutely required.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 01:34 AM
thanks for that info

Scimmia
April 20, 2012, 01:39 AM
The kit you asked about is good. You will need to add a caliper and die set, and you'd be good to go except for a manual. The case prep stuff they include will be useless to you for 9mm, but it's not much of the cost of the kit.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 01:40 AM
how about this press

https://fsreloading.com/catalogs/lee-precision/classic-cast.html

Found one on a local ad for 40 bucks

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=20049477&cat=655&lpid=&search=

Is this just as good?

GLOOB
April 20, 2012, 01:42 AM
Lee Reloader Press at fsreloading - $25
Lee Ram Prime at fsreloading - $9

Consider switching out ^ this for a Lee Breechlock Challenger press.* Costs $55.00. It primes pistol cases much faster and easier than a Lee Ram Prime, cuz you can do it while you're sizing or flaring.

Or just get the 50th anniversary kit for $110.00. It comes with a scale and a powder measure.

*The Classic Cast you linked is even better. But the aluminum alloy of the Breechlock is plenty strong enough to load accurate pistol ammo.

FYI, for 9mm, you do not need a trimmer, a chamfer tool, a commercial loading block, lube, or a powder measure. I have all those things, and I don't use any of them for pistol reloading.

Basically, you need a press, dies, a scale, and a way to prime (if not integral to the press). For charging cases, you can use a cut down 9mm or 380 case to make a dipper.

Scimmia
April 20, 2012, 01:47 AM
how about this press

https://fsreloading.com/catalogs/lee-precision/classic-cast.html

Found one on a local ad for 40 bucks

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=20049477&cat=655&lpid=&search=

Is this just as good?

Better. The Classic Cast is a significant step up from the Challenger you linked to earlier and a massive step up from the basic Reloader I mentioned as bare minimum. $40 is a great price if it's in good shape.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 01:49 AM
Ill probably try to pick that one up.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 01:51 AM
whats a single stage press vs others such as a turrent, they seem to cost the same

Scimmia
April 20, 2012, 01:55 AM
The Classic Cast single stage is massively overkill for reloading 9mm. It's a very heavy duty press made to handle anything you can throw at it with ease, including the 50 BMG. The turret won't be as heavy duty, but allows you to run a round through all stages of the press sequentially, which reduces time handling the round and speeds things up significanly. You'd be much better off with a turret for 9mm, really. If you find one of those for $40, don't even hesitate.

Scimmia
April 20, 2012, 02:00 AM
Consider switching out ^ this for a Lee Breechlock Challenger press.* Costs $55.00. It primes pistol cases much faster and easier than a Lee Ram Prime, cuz you can do it while you're sizing or flaring.

I agree, but I was going for absolute minimum with my list. That extra $21 would be a 30% increase in cost! :D


Basically, you need a press, dies, a scale, and a way to prime (if not integral to the press). For charging cases, you can use a cut down 9mm or 380 case to make a dipper.

I will disagree a bit here, I don't see a caliper as optional, especially when dealing with a high pressure round like 9mm. OAL is important to controlling pressures.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 02:00 AM
So the classic cast single stage will handle 30-06 and 223 but will be slower at 9mm. But 40 bucks is a great price vs 105 for a turrent. should i just grab that classic press for 40?

whats the breech lock press? how does it differ from the classic?

Scimmia
April 20, 2012, 02:09 AM
The turret would handle 30-06 and 223 with no problem at all. It would really be when you get into the large magnums that you'd start to notice a difference. There will also be a little bit of play in the turret as the piece that holds the dies moves a bit within the mount. Not a big deal, really, but it doesn't happen with the Classic Cast which is all one big hunk of cast iron. The turret may wear out earlier, where the Classic Cast would be like new when your great grandkids used it.

Breech Lock is a system Lee uses for quickly changing dies. They offer that system in their Challenger and Classic Cast presses (and the hand press, which I'm ignoring for now). The Challenger is what you linked to earlier on ebay. It's a cast aluminum press and is a bit smaller than the Classic Cast.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 02:12 AM
So should i go for the classic if i can get it for 40 bucks? It may not be as fast as the turrent but i only plan on reloading 100 9mm a month at the most.

or should i get the turrent for faster reloading?

Scimmia
April 20, 2012, 02:15 AM
Depends, at that rate you're looking about 1 hr/month on the single stage or 1/2 hr/month on the turret. What's your time worth to you?

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 02:24 AM
could i buy the breech lock system for the classic cast single stage press? Basically turning it into the classic breech lock?

kingmt
April 20, 2012, 05:04 AM
It ether is a Breach Lock or it isn't.

Even at 100 I'd suggest a powder measure. A pro disk is inexpensive & will make it go from a task to fun.

mingansr
April 20, 2012, 05:54 AM
"Eventually you'll probably want an electronic scale and calipers, but they are not a MUST"

be careful when you buy an electronic scale, Wolverine, cuz i bought one at Harbor Freight for 9 after 25% discount, but it was only sensitive to .1 g, that's gram. fyi, .1g is equal to 1.543 gr (grains). and if you're loading max loads, that could be an error that could cause way too much pressure.

i returned my scale, and went to opticsplanet.com and bought a nice Franklin Armory scale, including the powder pan and 50g. calibration weight for 35.78 inc ship. that has a sensitivity of .1 gr. real happy with that. my buddy borrowed me the Lee scale, but that is, tho accurate, very slow to use.

fyi, i bought the Lee Loadmaster at fsreloading.com for 219.95 incl .40sw dies (not including the Lee Factory Crimp die). tricky to get set up properly, but i'm feeling like i'm ready to attach the 4 tube case feeder assembly and pound out 200 rounds now.

in my opinion, humbly, i think fsreloading.com is about the cheapest prices on Lee equipment. nice people to deal with too.

Warners
April 20, 2012, 08:36 AM
The cost of the reloading tools pales in comparison to the cost of buying the components, even if they are bought in bulk to reduce the unit cost.

I believe a lot of newcomers think reloading is a kind of magic solution to the high price of ammunition, even at lower quantities.

In general, this is false.

If you can shoot the same number of rounds after getting into reloading as before, and if this number is around 500/month or so, most will see a "break even" point after approximately a year. Cheaper calibers like 9mm take longer than more expensive calibers. (Estimate based on saving $0.20/round and a total cost, including components, of $1200. If you can get started with $600, break-even occurs sooner.)

The truth is, most simply shoot more after they get into reloading. Until it cuts into their food budget, kid's college fund, etc. Then they have to impose a limit.

So reloading doesn't save money. It just lets you shoot more. :)
You know...I've heard this over and over, but I have to respectfully disagree. I spent about $400 on my Lee turret press, dies, case tumbler, etc. What I need to get started with one caliber. I calculated the cost of reloading versus buying loaded ammo, and my cost savings was about $10 a box. So MY break even point for this one caliber (like the OP is suggesting) was roughly 40 boxes, or 2,000 rounds of ammo. After that, I'd be saving the same $10 a box. I guess if you buy real expensive equipment and lots of extra cool toys, it would not be as quick of a break even. I just bought my 3rd set of dies and the 4 hole turret (so I only have to set the dies up once). This is how my costs worked out for reloading 9mm Luger, showing the first time, and then subsequent reloads (if you're starting with NO brass). Obviously the cost savings on other calibers is significantly higher:

Here’s how the costs work out:

First time (including the cost of the brass) for 500 rounds:

$40 – Brass (once fired from Brassman Brass)
$15 – Primers
$57 – Bullets (Berry's 124gr HBRN-TP)
$7 – Powder (HP38)

$119 Total (or $11.90 a box)


Subsequent Loads for 500 rounds:

$15 – Primers
$57 – Bullets
$7 – Powder

$79 Total (or $7.90 a box)

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 09:59 AM
i have already been saving brass

Warners
April 20, 2012, 10:03 AM
i have already been saving brass
Good. I'll be doing my first 9mm reloads tonight in fact. I've already reloaded 500 rounds of .45 ACP and 750 rounds of .38 special.

Warner

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 10:14 AM
what press do you have

Sounds like the turret is the way to go for me so i dont have to change dies but the single stage is 40 bucks and i dont know if i can pass that up.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 10:16 AM
Will any dies work or do i need lee dies for a lee press?

I just talked the guy down to 30 bucks for the classic cast single stage press

James2
April 20, 2012, 10:26 AM
Rock Chucker Press (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-ROCK-CHUCKER-4-RC-IV-RELOADING-PRESS-No-Reserve?item=251043783109&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D1%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7854792995988699583#ht_995wt_976)

Lyman 55 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lyman-Ideal-55-Powder-Measurer-/130683253387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6d54328b#ht_500wt_994)

Balance scale (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ohaus-5-0-5-powder-scale-/230777381129?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bb676109#ht_500wt_994)

James2
April 20, 2012, 10:32 AM
All brands of dies and presses use the standard 7/8 13 threads. Some presses have inserts that you can take out to use other configurations.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 10:36 AM
Rock Chucker Press

Lyman 55

Balance scale
__________________
James

isn;t the chucker press about the same as the lees? or is it superior to the lee's press i can get for 30 bucks?

James2
April 20, 2012, 10:39 AM
RCBS Jr3 Press (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-JR3-RELOADING-PRESS-/270960214489?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f167cc1d9#ht_523wt_976)

I bought one of these on eBay. Good price. It is a nice press for handgun ammo. Like I said, it takes a bit of patience to win the bid.

Warners
April 20, 2012, 12:29 PM
Here's the press kit that I bought:

https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=26&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41


Warner

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 01:43 PM
what did i end up with?

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd467/wolverine_173/sig%20parts/Gunwearpictures2011001-1.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd467/wolverine_173/sig%20parts/Gunwearpictures2011003-1.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd467/wolverine_173/sig%20parts/Gunwearpictures2011002-1.jpg

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 01:45 PM
it is not the same as this one, but i bought it anyways

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd467/wolverine_173/sig%20parts/CLASSIC.jpg

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 01:46 PM
mine is missing the little primer thing sticking out the side

GLOOB
April 20, 2012, 02:52 PM
Does it have a slot for the priming arm? If so, you should contact Lee Precision and they will set you straight.

If it has the slot, then you're missing TWO little primer things sticking out the side. There's one for small primers and one for large primers.

I'm having a hard time seeing how one would switch the priming from left to right on the Classic Cast. Anyone know? And what happens to the catch tube for the decapped primers? I suppose you couldn't decap and prime at the same time if you switched it to right side priming? I love the Breechlock Challenger for being set up for right side priming.

GLOOB
April 20, 2012, 02:57 PM
The turret won't be as heavy duty, but allows you to run a round through all stages of the press sequentially, which reduces time handling the round and speeds things up significanly. You'd be much better off with a turret for 9mm, really. If you find one of those for $40, don't even hesitate.
The one downside for a turret is you need to have all your stuff laid out on the table at once. This means primers, power, cases, bullets, and finished rounds, they all need to find a place around the press, and you're using all of them sequentially. And stopping to pour a charge down the top of your press every third/fourth pull of the lever would remove any benefit in speed/efficiency.

No one in their right mind would use a turret press this way. So in addition to the press you need an automatic powder measure in the least. This one thing is what makes the turret press significantly faster than a SS. Without this powder drop, then it would be close to a wash. Most people use the Lee Safety Prime attachment, as well.

Now, when switching between loads, you also have to recalibrate and remount your powder drop each time. And possibly change out the priming system. So turret press isn't always the faster method. If you are a low volume shooter with multiple calibers, you might find a SS press is just the ticket. Heck, even just dealing with the storage and organization of the extra parts and the loading and the storage of leftover loose primers can eat up your time savings.

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 05:32 PM
no slot for a priming arm. Looks like it doesn't do that function

kingmt
April 20, 2012, 05:52 PM
Looks like a old version of the Challenger. Looks like you need ether a Hand Prime or a Ram Prime. I suggest a CH4D swage & ram prime set. seems like it was $35 TYD. You will need a swage tool at some point anyhow. Seems all brass is getting crimped primers anymore.

Lost Sheep
April 20, 2012, 10:01 PM
could i buy the breech lock system for the classic cast single stage press? Basically turning it into the classic breech lock?
You COULD. Here's how.

Drill out the die mounting threads (being careful to keep the proper alignment, because if you don't you have just turned your press into a boat anchor).

Then tap the (enlarged) hole for the breech lock threads, keeping in mind that the interrupted-thread design is more complex than just regular machine threads.

All in all, it would cost you several times the price of a new press to have a machine shop do it and even if you could do it yourself, is probably not worth the trouble or the probability of ruining a usable press.

But, yes, it COULD be done.

Lost Sheep

wolverine_173
April 20, 2012, 10:22 PM
So my press is only worth 35 40 bucks? But it still works right? just have to hand prime

kingmt
April 20, 2012, 10:35 PM
It will make you a good press.

Lost Sheep
April 20, 2012, 10:47 PM
Gloob, I respectfully disagree.

The one downside for a turret is you need to have all your stuff laid out on the table at once. This means primers, power, cases, bullets, and finished rounds, they all need to find a place around the press, and you're using all of them sequentially.
True, you have to have all your components close at hand. But I don't see that as a downside at all.

I have my empty brass on the floor near my left foot next to a box for my loaded rounds. Powder, primers and scale on a table off to my right (isolates the scale from press vibration). A box of bullets to the immediate left of the press.

As I load, my right hand operates the lever and the safety prime. Auto-disk drops powder and my left hand places the bullets on the cases. When I have a finished round, left hand extracts it from the press, goes down to the floor and puts it in the ammo box and picks up the next empty case.

If I lay my supplies out efficiently, I have no problem.

And stopping to pour a charge down the top of your press every third/fourth pull of the lever would remove any benefit in speed/efficiency.

No one in their right mind would use a turret press this way. So in addition to the press you need an automatic powder measure in the least. This one thing is what makes the turret press significantly faster than a SS. Without this powder drop, then it would be close to a wash. Most people use the Lee Safety Prime attachment, as well.
I THINK I am in my right mind. But then, if I were crazy, would I know it?

If I don't use the Auto-Disk powder measure, a bowl of powder sits beyond the bullets on the bench and my left hand can operate the dipper into a funnel atop the die where the Auto-Disk usually goes. Not as fast as the measure does it, but fast enough that the turret press in continuous mode is still substantially faster than batch processing on a single stage or on a turret. I do admit that if you have a turret press without auto-indexing, you do suffer a speed loss.

"you need an automatic powder measure in the least. This one thing is what makes the turret press significantly faster than a SS", I believe the one thing that makes the turret press significantly faster than a single stage is that you don't have to insert and extract the cartridge from the shell holder multiple times. Second most significant factor is if the turret press has automatic indexing. An automatic powder measure can speed up a single stage just as easily as it can speed up a turret, so I think that factor is a wash. But I haven't run speed tests to prove it.

Now, when switching between loads, you also have to recalibrate and remount your powder drop each time.
Not if you have more than one. Just leave it mounted on the die and empty the powder. They only cost about $25 each and a funnel, $4 (but the funnel takes no time at all to move to another set of dies).

And possibly change out the priming system.
??? It is a simple drop-in operation. It takes less than 5 seconds.

So turret press isn't always the faster method. If you are a low volume shooter with multiple calibers, you might find a SS press is just the ticket. Heck, even just dealing with the storage and organization of the extra parts and the loading and the storage of leftover loose primers can eat up your time savings.
Leftover loose primers? I have never seen one. Once I open a box (of 100) they find homes in the bottoms of cartridge cases before I quit for the day.

My entire loading bench (except for my manuals, tumbler, the workbench itself and the "extra" stuff I hardly ever use) fits in 3 medium size toolboxes, the largest of which is 24" x 10" x 10". Teardown is a few minutes and setup less than 10 minutes. My single stage is no quicker to set up than my turret.

I loaded 100 rounds in 47 minutes the first time out with my Lee Classic Turret. That is nearly 3 times as fast as I could load with my single stage and equal to my production rate with my Lee Pro-1000s (I am ultra-cautious on a progressive, as monitoring multiple simultaneous operations made me a nervous wreck). I am sure I could be faster now that I have some experience with the press.

The biggest thing (to my mind) the batch method has (for me) over the continuous method of loading is that when you have a batch of cases charged with powder, you can inspect the whole batch at once and easily see that all the powder charges are equal. That is worth a lot in the safety arena.

The matter of personal style is another thing that leads people to the batch mode (for which the single stage is admirably suited) rather than the continuous mode (which the turret can do as well as the batch mode). But some people simply LIKE to do all the sizing at once, then all the priming (often away from the loading bench sitting in an easy chair with a hand primer) and save the powder charging and subsequent operations for later.

My style (at least as it is now - but do give myself permission to evolve) prefers starting with an empty case and ending with a finished cartridge before moving on to the next case.

Everyone has their preference and I will not fault anyone for following thier bliss. But I will point out where I think they miscalculated or overlooked something.

Regards,

Lost Sheep

wolverine_173
April 21, 2012, 02:31 AM
indeed it is the old version of the challenger. Im okay with that.

So what 9mm dies should i buy. What are the different kinds and i take it most brands will fit in my press, correct?

GLOOB
April 21, 2012, 04:43 AM
I loaded 100 rounds in 47 minutes the first time out with my Lee Classic Turret. That is nearly 3 times as fast as I could load with my single stage.
Well, there ya go. I can load 100 rds in 35 minutes (at max speed, to be sure) with NOTHING set up in advance. Everything still boxed up and on the shelf, including the dies. From the moment I decide I want to load a pistol caliber - any caliber - I can load up that 100 rds. And that's doing a wimpy, inefficient 100 rd batch from start to finish. For 9mm and 45ACP I often batch size and prime up to 500 cases at a time. I'm sure I could load a good bit faster with a turret and an automatic powder dispenser. I'm just trying to make the point that maybe you weren't loading on your SS in the most efficient manner, and therefore aren't comparing apples to apples. :)

True, you have to have all your components close at hand. But I don't see that as a downside at all.
Well, to me it means you have to clean up your bench to make space. Then arrange all your stuff out in a certain way. Then you have to reach farther to get each component. And then you have to put it all away when you're done. You need a certain amount of each item, and then when one runs out, you have extras of all the other stuff to put away. With a SS, you grab 2 things at a time. And you go til one runs out.

I have my empty brass on the floor near my left foot next to a box for my loaded rounds.
So you see no disadvantage to grabbing each brass from the floor?

Leftover loose primers? I have never seen one. Once I open a box (of 100) they find homes in the bottoms of cartridge cases before I quit for the day.
Well, with a SS and priming on the ram, by hand, you can easily drop a few more primers to finish your brass. I know you can just wait till you have exactly 100 cases. But that means you have to count them! Tell me that doesn't take time! And if you end up using up all your brass with a few leftover, then you have to put those extra cases away, again. Come on, tell me you don't spend any time organizing all your different caliber brass, esp if you sort by headstamp or x fired.

An automatic powder measure can speed up a single stage just as easily as it can speed up a turret
Well, my point of view is that the measure greatly speeds up the turret for the fact that you can cap that round with a bullet immediately after it's filled. If you use an automatic powder measure with a SS press, you have to take it out and set in on a loading block. Then when you're all done, you put it back in the press. You might think that you're saving a lot of time, because you're doing it while flaring, but you're not. If you set up your press correctly, you can flare 100 cases in 3 minutes if you let them fall in a bin, rather than setting them in a loading block. Then you can actually fill them faster with a dipper than a measure once they're all flared. It's an economy of motion. The brass, powder, and loading block are all right next to each other. You set the filled cases on your loading block as you go, then immediately seat the block with the seating die. With an automatic dispenser, you have to stop when your loading block(s) is(are) filled and change out the die and components for each block.

I believe the one thing that makes the turret press significantly faster than a single stage is that you don't have to insert and extract the cartridge from the shell holder multiple times.
I agree this is one of the two big time savers. But I think the automatic powder measure is right up there as equally important. I just don't imagine it very easy to get a good level scoop with a good eye on it with my left hand, and carrying it up over the top of my press at the same time as pulling a lever with my right hand, then setting the scoop down before being able to pick up and orient the bullet. Maybe I'm underestimating my dexterity and vision.

Second most significant factor is if the turret press has automatic indexing.
In a SS press, you only have to "index" your die one time per batch operation. So it's kinda unfair to call this an "advantage" over a SS press, lol. Manually indexing a turret for each operation of each round is a DISadvantage of a manual turret press. That fact actually makes me disappointed that the Lee Classic Turret has 4 stations. I wish it had 3, so you wouldn't have to manually turn the thing over the fourth die (which I would leave empty).

bubbacrabb
April 21, 2012, 05:02 AM
If you're going to load in any volume just buy a progressive press. Its a hard to do one time investment but its well worth it in the long run

kingmt
April 21, 2012, 07:20 AM
Well, my point of view is that the measure greatly speeds up the turret for the fact that you can cap that round with a bullet immediately after it's filled. If you use an automatic powder measure with a SS press, you have to take it out and set in on a loading block. Then when you're all done, you put it back in the press. You might think that you're saving a lot of time, because you're doing it while flaring, but you're not. If you set up your press correctly, you can flare 100 cases in 3 minutes if you let them fall in a bin, rather than setting them in a loading block. Then you can actually fill them faster with a dipper than a measure once they're all flared. It's an economy of motion. The brass, powder, and loading block are all right next to each other. You set the filled cases on your loading block as you go, then immediately seat the block with the seating die. With an automatic dispenser, you have to stop when your loading block(s) is(are) filled and change out the die and components for each block.I can't see this. If you flip it in a box you still have to take it out of the box to put in the loading block. Why not just take it from the shell holder & put in the tray? I can see why you would think that because it is faster to get through your flaring but overall your adding more time to the process.

Duckdog
April 21, 2012, 07:46 AM
It is hard to beat an 4 hole Lee classic turret with the new priming system, a set lee dies with the powder through expanding die and a auto disk. Once it's set up, it is almost hard to screw it up.

I don't own a full progressive, so I am sure they are excellent, too. I have an older lee challenger like he has in the photos, and I still use it for szing cast bullets, depreiming brass sometimes. and I will soon use it for gas check cutting when my cutter arrives.

Your not out nothing. Get a set of Lee carbides and you will still be able to use the powder through expanding die with a funnel. I've done it and still do, even on the turrets, on rifle loads.

It sounds like you have a scale, so I would recommend a set of the lee dippers. They'll throw charges not exactly per thier chart, but then you just adjust to find one that is acceptable close. They usually throw a light charge due to different lots of powder, and the fact they will neve throw heavy for safetys' sake.

wolverine_173
April 21, 2012, 11:01 AM
whats the difference between carbide dies and others

James2
April 21, 2012, 11:46 AM
The carbide dies have a carbide insert as the sizing device. Carbide is so hard you don't need to use lube on the casings.

I have some of the old steel dies from years back, and they still work fine, but need lube.

wolverine_173
April 21, 2012, 12:02 PM
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd467/wolverine_173/sig%20parts/Gunwearpictures2011002-1.jpg

Does this part of the press get replace with a part that will hold a 9mm case or is this universal? I notice this part comes with the 9mm die sets

joecil
April 21, 2012, 12:16 PM
No it doesn't get replaced as it is where the shell holder slides in to the press. If you buy Lee dies you usually get a shell holder with the set. Some presses such as the Progress types have a shell plate which is a bit different. Lee sells a set of 11 or individually. https://fsreloading.com/lee-set-of-r-shellhldrs-90197.html

wolverine_173
April 21, 2012, 12:18 PM
so the plate that comes with the dies just slides into that slot

do i need to crimp 9mm?

do i need the three or four die set? does one just include a crimp die and the other does not?

joecil
April 21, 2012, 12:32 PM
The difference between the 3 and 4 die set are the factory crimp die. The bullet seating die can also be setup to crimp or not crimp. I have 4 sets of dies 3 of which are the 4 die set though I've never used the FCD myself I have them for 45 ACP, 9mm, 38/357 but not for my 45 Colt. I have yet to make any 9mm or 45 ACP using them as I have a pretty good supply of factory ammo at this time for both. I'm mostly loading 45 Colt for single action revolvers now so not as critical as an auto loader might be.

Lost Sheep
April 21, 2012, 04:08 PM
Reading (or taking a loading class if there is one available to you) will answer most of your questions, and also answer questions you will not think to ask. It is the questions that we do not think to ask that bring us the most danger.

Wolverine_173, you REALLY need to get (or borrow from your local library) a copy of "The ABC's of Reloading" and read through it. I am told you can get an electronic copy of it for one or two dollars, as well, but I have not verified that report.

Pretty much all regular loading manuals also have descriptions of the loading process in their early chapters. Get a couple. Reading different authors' descriptions will broaden your perspective.

so the plate that comes with the dies just slides into that slot

Exactly right. You can see in your picture a spring that holds it in place, once inserted.

It is called a "shell plate" in a progressive, having several stations for holding cartridge cases, and called a "shell holder" if it holds only one cartridge, as on single stage or turret presses.

do i need to crimp 9mm?

Yes. but TAPER CRIMP for semi-autos. ROLL CRIMPs are for revolvers. Why? Semi-autos headspace on the case mouth, and if you roll it in, it will not hit the little shoulder in the chamber and your headspace will be too great and possibly lead to disaster.

When you read your "ABC's of Reloading", you will become educated on headspace, which I have left undefined to encourage you to read more. This is one of those questions people don't know to ask that I wrote about above.

Crimp (of which there are two general types, roll crimp and taper crimp) performs a vital function. Deadly vital in some cases.

It holds the bullet in the proper position. Both before and during firing.

You don't want your bullet being driven deeper into the case before firing because that will decrease the free volume inside the case and cause pressure upon firing to increase. This increase is not proportional to the volume decrease. It goes up very fast.

You don't want your bullet advancing out of the case because, if the pressure is lower, the burn rate of the powder will get erratic. (Smokeless powder requires a fairly narrow pressure range to burn correctly, lest you get a bullet stuck in your barrel. A barrel obstruction is one of the surest way to destroy a gun, in your hand.) Also, a bullet "jumping crimp" in a revolver will prevent cylinder rotation, jamming up the gun.

The above is for before firing.

During firing, "bullet tension" or "pull" keeps the bullet in place while the powder is ignited and begins to burn. See, a primer alone is generally enough to make a bullet leave the cartridge, but you really want that departure delayed so the powder begins to burn and raise the pressure inside the cartridge to the level where the powder's burn rate is stable. Unstable burn rates destroy accuracy and (occasionally) destroy guns.


do i need the three or four die set? does one just include a crimp die and the other does not?Either will do.

They both have crimp dies. Both die sets are identical for the first 3 dies and used identically for the first 2 dies.

3-die operation: When you get to the third die, you seat and crimp in the same operation.

4-die operation: The third die seats the bullet and applies no crimp. (You do this by backing the die out far enough that the crimp shoulder does not contact the case. Not very far.)

The fourth die crimps only.

Why separate the operations? Because the dies are easier to adjust (when adjusting a die for dual seat-crimp operation adjusting for crimp alters the seating depth and vice-versa. Also, if you crimp while the bullet is still being seated, the case mouth tends to dig into the sides of the bullet. Neither of these is a major problem, but is convenient if using a 4-hole turret press or a progressive.

The fourth die also performs another operation. Post-sizing. The mouth (bottom) of the die has a carbide sizing ring that will re-size the case to SAAMI specs as it is withdrawn from the die. Some cases (especially those with thick walls or if you are using slightly oversized bullets) get bulged during loading such that you can't chamber them. Post sizing cures that symptom.

Some people complain that it does not cure any PROBLEM, but merely covers it up, encouraging sloppy reloading habits. So the Lee Factory Crimp Die (or "FCD" the name for that 4th die) generates a certain amount of controversy and argument.

Some of those people who dislike the post-sizing function but do like the "cleaner" and more precise results they get with the 4-die set will knock the post-sizing ring out of the Lee FCD.

I hope I haven't overloaded you with too much information. I do want to encourage you to continue asking questions whether you have read manuals in advance or not. But like I wrote earlier, the questions you don't think to ask are the ones most likely to hurt you. We cannot anticipate those for you. You have to study the process from a manual designed to take you through the whole process.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

Lost Sheep
April 21, 2012, 05:42 PM
Gloob, I have no heartburn over our differences. To me, it seems just a matter of style. You and I differ in style and every other reader of these posts will eventually choose their own.

What (in my opinion) makes these posts worth their bandwidth is to show loaders searching for the style that fits them best (or who seek to evolve their style) that variation is possible, even beneficial.

Your comments about flaring 100 rounds in three minutes has got me thinking. For that, I thank you.

Well, there ya go. I can load 100 rds in 35 minutes (at max speed, to be sure) with NOTHING set up in advance. Everything still boxed up and on the shelf, including the dies. From the moment I decide I want to load a pistol caliber - any caliber - I can load up that 100 rds. And that's doing a wimpy, inefficient 100 rd batch from start to finish. For 9mm and 45ACP I often batch size and prime up to 500 cases at a time. I'm sure I could load a good bit faster with a turret and an automatic powder dispenser. I'm just trying to make the point that maybe you weren't loading on your SS in the most efficient manner, and therefore aren't comparing apples to apples. :)

Ah, but I was comparing apples to apples. I was comparing my single stage rate to my turret rate.

According to what I have read of others' loading speed, I am the slowest (for pistols) loader I know.

I count the time from empty, tumbled brass with fired primers still in place to start and ending with finished rounds, boxed (old factory boxes of 50) and ready to take to the range.

Well, to me it means you have to clean up your bench to make space.
Hard to factor that in. I clean off my bench, putting up my tools in their storage containers, after every loading session. And then I fold up the bench, too. So, I can't compare with someone who keeps their gear ready to use all the time.
Then arrange all your stuff out in a certain way. Then you have to reach farther to get each component. And then you have to put it all away when you're done. You need a certain amount of each item, and then when one runs out, you have extras of all the other stuff to put away. With a SS, you grab 2 things at a time. And you go til one runs out.

To get finished cartridges, you still have to have grabbed all of everything at least once, no matter which method you use.

So you see no disadvantage to grabbing each brass from the floor?

The reach does add a little time. I thought about putting a small table there to raise them up, but then thought about what would happen if I knocked the bowl of brass off the table (my available table was small) and decided the floor would do. My hand only makes one trip down and up for each cartridge and case swap.

Well, with a SS and priming on the ram, by hand, you can easily drop a few more primers to finish your brass. I know you can just wait till you have exactly 100 cases. But that means you have to count them! Tell me that doesn't take time! And if you end up using up all your brass with a few leftover, then you have to put those extra cases away, again. Come on, tell me you don't spend any time organizing all your different caliber brass, esp if you sort by headstamp or x fired.

Counting my brass takes absolutely no time at all.

I keep my empty brass in plastic coffee cans and have several hundred on hand at all times. I never have all my brass loaded at any given time. (Well, maybe the .454 Casull and .480 Ruger. I don't have too many excess of those.) To load an exact multiple of 100 rounds I just go until the box of primers runs out. If I happen to crush a primer or something, I just wind up with a short box of ammunition.

I used to try to keep track of the history of my pistol brass, recording the loads on a slip of paper inside the ammo box lid, but once I got my boxes of empty brass mixed up and then it seemed pointless, with the medium range loads I run. So now I don't keep separate histories on each batch.

Well, my point of view is that the measure greatly speeds up the turret for the fact that you can cap that round with a bullet immediately after it's filled. If you use an automatic powder measure with a SS press, you have to take it out and set in on a loading block. Then when you're all done, you put it back in the press. You might think that you're saving a lot of time, because you're doing it while flaring, but you're not. If you set up your press correctly, you can flare 100 cases in 3 minutes if you let them fall in a bin, rather than setting them in a loading block. Then you can actually fill them faster with a dipper than a measure once they're all flared. It's an economy of motion. The brass, powder, and loading block are all right next to each other. You set the filled cases on your loading block as you go, then immediately seat the block with the seating die. With an automatic dispenser, you have to stop when your loading block(s) is(are) filled and change out the die and components for each block.
100 cases in 3 minutes? Yeah, that's is doable. I don't think I could do it. I just don't move that fast. I take a much more relaxed pace.

Some people (and I don't fault them for this) try to get the job done like it's a race. I don't. I observe my production rate/time and just use that as a measure of efficiency. If I am relaxed and refreshed at the end of a production run, I am satisfied. If my speed is good, that's just a bonus.

I agree this is one of the two big time savers. But I think the automatic powder measure is right up there as equally important. I just don't imagine it very easy to get a good level scoop with a good eye on it with my left hand, and carrying it up over the top of my press at the same time as pulling a lever with my right hand, then setting the scoop down before being able to pick up and orient the bullet. Maybe I'm underestimating my dexterity and vision.
The automatic powder measure DEFINITELY is a big time-saver.

On the other hand, it is easy to get a good, consistent scoop of powder with a dipper. Of course, I happen to be left-handed and can do it with either hand equally well. You can too, with practice. But I don't try to balance a dipper of powder at the same time as pulling the operating handle. I would spill powder every time, I am sure.

In a SS press, you only have to "index" your die one time per batch operation. So it's kinda unfair to call this an "advantage" over a SS press, lol.
I was comparing manual index turrets to auto-indexing turrets.
Manually indexing a turret for each operation of each round is a DISadvantage of a manual turret press. That fact actually makes me disappointed that the Lee Classic Turret has 4 stations. I wish it had 3, so you wouldn't have to manually turn the thing over the fourth die (which I would leave empty).

Yeah, me too. I called Lee Precision and asked if there was a way to make the 4-station into a 3-station, but they don't make one.

I have been designing a press top end that would bolt onto a Lee Classic Turret base and allow 3, 4, 5 or 6 stations at the will of the operator. A linear turret. Auto-advance is doable but the return to station 1 is problematic.

Lost Sheep

Reconunit8620000
April 21, 2012, 11:09 PM
Hello
I am currently loading .40, 9mm Luger, and .45 ACP. Here are my results thus far. I am currently using a lee loadmaster with the pro auto disk measuring system. I also use a factory crimp die although that is soon to change to a taper die (which many recommend over a factory crimp die). I also only use federal match grade primers because I like them and feel they are very reliable. A vast majority of my cases are cleaned using the Hornady Magnum Sonic Case Cleaner (which I am extremely pleased with and highly recommend) and some older batches using media that was treated. I only use Rainier bullets from Midway USA buying them in bulk with the free shipping. All my loads use Unique powder and I have been pleased outside of the little bit of build up that seems to be consistent with all Unique brand shooters.

The weapons testing these loads are as follows:

----.45 ACP I am using a springfield TRP
----.40 I am using a Glock 23 gen. 3 and a Glock 35 gen. 4 (both my Glocks are using a Bar-Sto barrel 1:16 twist which I love)
----9mm Luger I am using a beretta 9mm military issue (not a Taurus version) and a Browning High Power

All of my weapons are cleaned using bore snakes, rem. oil for exterior rust prevention and Pro-Shot Pro-Gold grease lubricant 10cc syringe (excellent results though it does build up residue which is easy to wipe off). I am also looking into other types of lubrication for the weapons such as M-Pro 7 gun oil and FrogLube CLP. It never hurts to try new things to see what I like. I come from a family completed made up of Marines and they can be a bit narrow minded when it comes to expanding their horizons on various weapon cleaning products.

.45 ACP
My next goal is to get .45 ACP (451 diameter) 200 gr. Rainier LeadSafe plated round nose bullets shooting. I only use federal match grade primers though some call me crazy for using expensive primers for plinking ammo (each to his own I guess). I tried the .71 pro auto disk and the next step which is the .74 pro auto disk. I found both had trouble with the case not always ejecting. I need to figure out if the next setting is good. Many said that the 6.0 gr. of unique powder for a 200 gr. is perfect which means I need to find out which pro auto setting is the equivalent to the 6.0 grains. I hope that is the case. Thus far, here are my results.

.71pro auto disk- not reliable to cycle. It does fire every time but does not cycle. It simply stays in the chamber without even stove piping.
.74pro auto disk- not reliable to cycle. It does fire but cycles about 75% of the time. The case would either stay in the chamber or it would stove pipe. However, it stove piped more often than simply staying in the chamber.

As a side note, I have noticed that this powder does not burn all that clean. Not that it has ever been a problem for my Springfield TRP. On the flip side, it does clean easily and the flakes/residue is easy to wipe off or use a bore snake (2-3 passes).

.40
My next goal is to get the .40 (400 diameter) 155 grain Rainier LeadSafe plated flat nose bullets. I try to find a load that works in all of my .40 caliber handguns since I found that sometimes one load works for one and not the other. I am currently at the .66 pro auto disk and the rounds cycle great with exception to a few though I feel those faults are due more to magazine issues. Even though this load works great, I am wondering if I should be using a lighter load especially since I am simply trying to hit paper most days.

.66pro auto disk- does fire reliably and cycles great even with my heavy bar-sto 1:16 match grade barrels.

As a side note, I have noticed this powder does not burn all that clean. While it fires great, I was worried about the buildup in the barrel. However, after firing over 500 rounds in one day with this using just my Glock .23, all of my concerns instantly vanished. I have found that this load works with both my Glock 23 gen. 3 and my Glock 35 gen. 4.

9mm Luger
My goal to shoot 9mm (355 diameter) Luger using Rainier LeadSafe 115 grain Plated Round Nose. I have been using the .61 and .57 pro auto disk and found that they work although the kick feels more like a .40 would. I am worried they are to heavy of a load and plan on trying a few lighter loads.

.61pro auto disk- shoots fine using both my Browning and Beretta but feels extremely heavy for a 9mm load that you would get from the store.
.57pro auto disk- shoots fine in both my Browning and Beretta but still feels heavy.

As a side note, I am wondering if they are bit heavy on the powder side and I plan on buying a chronograph to test velocity later on.

Help Welcome!!
Please understand that I am new to shooting as well as reloading. I hope this helps but I don’t want people to think my loads work for everyone nor are they the perfect way to do things. Please be careful and think about what you are doing before you do it. I tried to place as detailed of a review as possible and I hope it helped people. I also would like anyones opinion on the material above. I am looking for any kind of ideas and loads that may be better for plinking ammo. Thank you for reading my notes and I look forward to hearing from my fellow reloading community. I hope to update this as soon as I can with the actual grains that each setting of lee pro auto disk equals to.

kingmt
April 21, 2012, 11:39 PM
You should get a scale. Your loads are still to light.

There was a bit to much info there. I can't tell if your asking questions or answering them.

Lost Sheep
April 22, 2012, 12:50 AM
Hello
I am currently loading .40, 9mm Luger, and .45 ACP. Here are my results thus far. I am currently using a lee loadmaster with the pro auto disk measuring system. I also use a factory crimp die although that is soon to change to a taper die (which many recommend over a factory crimp die).
I think you will find that the FCD is a taper crimp die. Lee does taper crimp dies for cartridges typically found in autoloaders and roll crimp dies for cartridges found in revolvers as their default.
[/QUOTE]
I think you will find that the FCD is a taper crimp die. Some people turn the Lee FCD into a crimp-only die by simply knocking out the sizing ring.

You can also use the #3 die to seat and crimp. You can do this in one combined step, or by adjusting the die as separate steps. However, for the $10 a second seat/crimp die costs, that may not be worth it.

Lost Sheep

GLOOB
April 29, 2012, 12:10 AM
I can't see this. If you flip it in a box you still have to take it out of the box to put in the loading block. Why not just take it from the shell holder & put in the tray? I can see why you would think that because it is faster to get through your flaring but overall your adding more time to the process.
No, because setting up your powder measure on top of your SS press takes awhile. Filling it, settling it, and putting it away again. And then you have to take it all down and switch to the seating die for every time your loading blocks are filled, unless you have two SS presses. Using a scoop, you can also improve your economy of motion, cuz you can set your powder up right next to your loading block. So you can actually maybe gain back some of that minimal lost time you spent flaring, even without considering the setup and switching time for the powder measure.

BTW, I'm not flipping the flared case into a box. The shellholder is set to 3 o-clock. So the flared case drops into a bin to the right of the press, automatically, when I put the next case in. It's over twice as fast that way. The press is practically in constant motion, spitting out flared cases. Just take care you don't accidentally flare your finger, cuz it hurts. :)

Lost Sheep
April 29, 2012, 12:20 AM
I can't see this. If you flip it in a box you still have to take it out of the box to put in the loading block. Why not just take it from the shell holder & put in the tray? I can see why you would think that because it is faster to get through your flaring but overall your adding more time to the process. No, because setting up your powder measure on top of your SS press takes awhile. Filling it, settling it, and putting it away again. And then you have to take it all down and switch to the seating die for every time your loading blocks are filled, unless you have two SS presses. Using a scoop, you can also improve your economy of motion, cuz you can set it up right next to your loading block. So you can actually maybe gain back some of that lost time you spent flaring, even without considering the setup and switching time for the powder measure.
Unless you have multiple powder measures that you leave set up on the top of a "powder through" die.

So many choices. So little time.

If you are running a batch of 500, the setup time takes less time as a percentage of total time. Of course, your loading blocks do take up a lot of space. :)

Lost Sheep

GLOOB
April 29, 2012, 06:49 AM
Unless you have multiple powder measures that you leave set up on the top of a "powder through" die.

Of course, your loading blocks do take up a lot of space

If you think 10 loading blocks take up a lot of space, where are you planning to store all those powder measures? I have 8 sets of dies, and for most of my calibers I have 2-3 different loads. That's a lot of powder measures! :)

If you are running a batch of 500
If you're running a batch of 500+, routinely, I think it's time to upgrade from a SS press! :)

I agree there are so many choices. But certain combinations of those choices aren't especially practical!

kingmt
April 29, 2012, 07:59 AM
No, because setting up your powder measure on top of your SS press takes awhile. Filling it, settling it, and putting it away again. And then you have to take it all down and switch to the seating die for every time your loading blocks are filled, unless you have two SS presses. Using a scoop, you can also improve your economy of motion, cuz you can set your powder up right next to your loading block. So you can actually maybe gain back some of that minimal lost time you spent flaring, even without considering the setup and switching time for the powder measure.

BTW, I'm not flipping the flared case into a box. The shellholder is set to 3 o-clock. So the flared case drops into a bin to the right of the press, automatically, when I put the next case in. It's over twice as fast that way. The press is practically in constant motion, spitting out flared cases. Just take care you don't accidentally flare your finger, cuz it hurts. :)
I understood what you were saying.
This is how I do my swageing on top of the press.

It just takes a few seconds to set my measure on top of the PXD. I put the first throw back then check the second. I usually load on the progressive tho. even 10 rounds will get done on the progressive.

If you enjoyed reading about "What do i need for beginning reloading?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!