Brand New CZ Duty is broked.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 03:47 PM

Kiln

April 23, 2012, 04:20 PM

The fact that they agreed to send pre-paid postage makes them alright in my book. I've had to ship several guns back to the manufacturer on my dime.

Look at it this way:

1. Although he wasn't enthusiastic at least the guy wasn't disrespectful. (Which I've seen with customer service reps before.)

2. They are going to pay shipping.

3. Your gun will be fixed.

sawdeanz

April 23, 2012, 04:30 PM

I guess it is kind of odd you had to prod the customer service rep for directions on how to proceed. I would expect them to be like, ok its covered under warranty here's what we can do and here's what we need from you. That said I haven't used their service before and hope I never have to, hope they make it right.

7thCavScout

April 23, 2012, 04:34 PM

You purchased a man mad mechanical object that broke. They said they would fix it on their dime, and even pay the shipping to boot. To be upset just because the guy was "monotone" might be well...just a tick over the top?

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 04:37 PM

Let me start by saying that the only obligation CZ owes to me is a working pistol via warranty - with that said I will say the guy on the other end of the phone was lack-luster and pretty much indifferent to the situation.

No, "I am sorry that happened to you."

No, "That is completely unacceptable for a brand new CZ pistol."

No effort what so ever to re-enforce the CZ USA product quality.

I am not impressed. I probably will not be purchasing another CZ pistol after this one. I don't know if I even want to keep it, if they fix it I was given no re-enforcement it will not happen again, etc etc.

I am going to be honest, some of the responses so far are so ridiculous I can't even manage what to say.

You are missing the point. Completely and utterly. :barf:

No one is disputing WHAT CZ owes me. I thought my pre-facing the post with the blue text would stop any of the off the wall comments regarding my "feelings" on the company. I failed apparently.

Why on earth would I want to keep a pistol or buy from a company in the future that basically says, "Meh..." when their products break? or be reliable?

These aren't toys - these are tools that may save my life one day.

Jim K

April 23, 2012, 04:47 PM

Going by other CR service reps, you are lucky he spoke English and knew what the company product was. Some companies have not only gone to foreign (mostly India) CR reps but even share reps so you not only have to try and figure out what they are saying, you have to tell them who made the product and what it does. (So much for our President's promise of American jobs.)

Jim

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 04:49 PM

Well I was surprised because every forum I shared my experience on gave the impression that CZ had some awesome customer service.

My original choice was between a Witness P Carry (Italian CZ Clone) or the CZ P-07 Duty, I was assured the $100 price difference would be made up if I ever had to contact CZ-USA customer service.

I had a Witness before, it worked flawlessly. Guess the joke is on me. lol

larryh1108

April 23, 2012, 04:52 PM

Well, put yourself in the shoes of the CS guy. His job is to take calls from unhappy people. I can only imagine some of the people he has to deal with. Also, I'm sure he's been instructed to not promise a thing because until they see the gun they don't know if it's been modified or abused. They also shouldn't admit to any culpability, either. As a guy who fields complaints all day he certainly can't say "CZ pistols never have a problem! Let's get that sucker down here so we can figure out what happened!" I'd be willing to bet the awkward silence was there because he's heard many customers demand a new pistol, a refund or who knows what. I'm sure he left the door open to see what your wishes were. It sounds like he wasn't trying to be confrontational and just wanted to get your info and move on to the next caller. Don't take it personally or as an act of indifference. They're trained to be emotionless drones and their pay reflects their training to be robots. Maybe you should judge CZ on how they take care of your pistol rather than how an entry level drone handles the complaint hotline?

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 04:58 PM

1. I am always polite to Customer Service. If it ever gets to the point I want to tell them to pound sand I would hang up.

2. His dealings with uncivil people are not my concern. My concern is me.

3. I did not ask for anything, so no promises were needed on his end.

4. "We pride ourselves on quality, this is disappointing to hear your gun broke after less than 100 rounds" is a far fetch from "CZs pwn and hardly ever break!"

Maybe you should judge CZ on how they take care of your pistol rather than how an entry level drone handles the complaint hotline?

If a company will not spend the money to properly train all their employees, why would I trust the quality of their products?

I *am* that guy on the other end of the phone - cept' I work directly with admins of businesses to provide support on specific software my employer programs. That speech may fly with someone who is clueless, but I've worked every support job you can imagine to work to the great place I am now.

This is why we HAVE crappy customer service from American companies. Peoples complacency about BAD service and somehow the urban myth formed that it is somehow WRONG to expect good service.

Good Service does NOT equal "give me free stuff cause I am mad". Cause I know someone is going to twist that statement beyond belief.

sigarms228

April 23, 2012, 05:16 PM

Ok so just got off the phone with CZ USA...

Let me start by saying that the only obligation CZ owes to me is a working pistol via warranty - with that said I will say the guy on the other end of the phone was lack-luster and pretty much indifferent to the situation.

I know a lot of people like to embellish these conversations, but this is how it went as best I can remember:

CZ Rep: Hello this is xxx.

TITAN308: Yes, good afternoon. My name is xxx and I purchased a P-07 Duty 9MM one week ago from a large retail store. I took it out to the range this past Saturday and around 60-70 rounds my double action no longer functions at all and about 25% of the time the trigger is not resetting in single action and I have to push the trigger forward.

CZ Rep: Ok, we can fix that. Its under warranty.

*Awkward silence for a few seconds*

TITAN308: Well, this is a brand new pistol are going you going to send a prepaid box out?

CZ Rep: Prepaid postage, yes - we don't send boxes.

TITAN308: Sorry I meant prepaid postage.

*Awkward silence for a few seconds*

TITAN308: Uh - ok - well I am at work and don't have my serial number on me, I guess I need to call back when I have it yea?

CZ Rep: Yes call back when you have the serial number and we will send out the prepaid postage.

TITAN308: Well ok, thank you for your time.

--- End Phone Conversation. ---

Completely monotone.

Completely uncaring. No rapport, no empathy. Just robotic.

No, "I am sorry that happened to you."

No, "That is completely unacceptable for a brand new CZ pistol."

No effort what so ever to re-enforce the CZ USA product quality.

I am not impressed. I probably will not be purchasing another CZ pistol after this one. I don't know if I even want to keep it, if they fix it I was given no re-enforcement it will not happen again, etc etc.

I don't demand free swag, no free magazines, what I would have at least expected was some sort of conversation involving apologies and acknowledgment this is not the regular quality CZ displays.

That is horribe customer service.

I am an IT systems engineer though on occasion I need to get involved in a situation where hardware fails from a manufacturer due to no fault of the company I work for that we installed but I always do my best to assure the client that I understand that this is an inconvenience, I am very sorry, though rare these things do happen, the equipment you bought is top notch quality and the manufacturer stands behind it 100 percent, we are going to replace and take care of it ASAP, and here is my contact info - please call if you have any questions and I will keep you updated on progress of repairs.

Really what is so hard about a response that includes an apology, that reinforces a customers decision on a product they purchased, and that the company takes such issues seriously and will prompty resolve and stand behind their product?

nonamehavei

April 23, 2012, 05:20 PM

Seems to me, just like every company can put out a lemon, every once and a while a company may let a lackluster hire slip through. Did you call back and express your concerns about the customer service you recieved with a supervisor or another CS rep. or immediately come to the internet to complain to people who have absolutely no bearing on the situation?

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk 2

777TRUTH

April 23, 2012, 05:31 PM

Maybe it's just me. I thought the call went well and the problem will be taken care of.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 05:34 PM

...or immediately come to the internet to complain to people who have absolutely no bearing on the situation?

Is this forum not here to discuss firearms and things related to firearms?

But more to the point...

Do let us know what CZ tells you, please.

Seems kind of petty to go after me when it was requested I share my experience after the first phone call.

The High Road - correct? :confused::barf:

el Godfather

April 23, 2012, 05:36 PM

Join the club. I recently experienced problem but of a lesser magnitude

7thCavScout

April 23, 2012, 05:37 PM

I don't know if anything this guy said would have made you happy. I don't know you from Adam, but you are coming off as a generally angry person.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 05:40 PM

I don't know if anything this guy said would have made you happy. I don't know you from Adam, but you are coming off as a generally angry person.

I don't know why you assume anger. Text tells you nothing. I used words like "disappointed" to express, well - my disappointment.

I don't see anything that resembles anything close to "omg CZ sucks balls those sumabitches RAWWWR!!! %*#*3111!!11!" *queue fuuuuuuuu comic*.

I thought I made it clear multiple times now that I don't expect anything but a repaired gun, but my view on their customer service is garbage. I've seen post where people got mad that a company would not pony up free swag or mags for a warranty repair.

I am not that person.

Rather it seems you have preconceived notions that someone expresses unsatisfactory customer service or products are foaming at the mouth.

That or you are a CZ fanboy. Your pick. :) (edit: for clarification, that was a joke)

larryh1108

April 23, 2012, 05:41 PM

If a company will not spend the money to properly train all their employees, why would I trust the quality of their products?

The brand name usually speaks for itself. CZ has a great reputation. You don't hear many stories of bad product like yours. Reputation is what makes a great company successful. On the other hand, I've heard that Hi Point, Kel Tec and Taurus have great customer service. Does this mean their product is better? Only you can say. I'm just trying to take your edge away from a bad experience. I'm not saying your feelings are wrong. You're just pizzed off right now. No one want to be "the guy" who got the bad gun. Unfortunately it does happen. If it gets repaired to your satisfaction you will be very happy with the gun. It is a fine gun. Perhaps that is why you purchased it? It's reputation?

labhound

April 23, 2012, 05:47 PM

You shouldn't have to lead a customer service rep by the hand when you call in with a problem with your gun. After listening to your problem, the appropriate reply would have been, "I'm sorry you're having a problem with our product, we'll send you a prepaid postage sticker, mail the gun back to us, we'll evaluate the problem and will be in contact with you".

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 05:47 PM

When it broke I was like, "Ah dammit - well I hear CZ has great customer service" and then laughed (my buddy was with me at the range).

Let me make it clear - the weapon breaking is not the concern at this point. Its the response I received that a brand new weapon would have a catastrophic failure in under 100 rounds was "Meh, ok we'll fix it".

How people can even think it is acceptable for a company to at the very least, not offer an apology for the failure is over my head. I can't even fathom how this is acceptable under any terms.

Ash

April 23, 2012, 06:11 PM

Are you paying for anything in the repair process? Did you have to insist on their paying for shipping? It was not exciting or empathetic, okay, I get that. Other than sympathy, you got everything you want. This is a gun. It's a tool. It's going to be fixed on their dime. You got great customer service.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 06:15 PM

It's going to be fixed on their dime. You got great customer service.

This is wrong on so many levels.

This conversation (and some of the responses here) would be going a different route if the "broke while at the range" was substituted with "got my ass mugged and stabbed cause my pistol failed and CZ did not even say sorry." - No CZ did not mug and stab me, but the tool they sell which serves a primary purposes of killing things did not operate correctly.

Its not the same as "Coca Cola stinks because the glass bottle I was carrying did not stop the knife."

Very misguided statement and you know it.

And if you are serious, you are one of thousands upon thousands that have degraded customer service to what it is today. 30 years ago it was a privilege to have a customer and you treated them like VIP. Now a days as long as it doesn't involve a lawyer and loosing money, "screw em - we have enough backorder of customers he won't matter."

The issue is further compounded when the product in question primary function is to serve as an item of protection.

"Your airbag failed to deploy during testing? Meh - we'll fix it."

"Your fire alarm failed to go off during testing? Meh - we'll fix it."

"Your brakes failed to operate during testing? Meh - we'll fix it."

"Your parachute didn't deploy during testing? Meh - we'll fix it."

Certaindeaf

April 23, 2012, 06:28 PM

You should get a Kimber.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 06:36 PM

I've been eye balling a Sig Scorpion in commander length at my LGS. lol

$999.00 - real tempting...

Walt Sherrill

April 23, 2012, 06:45 PM

This is wrong on so many levels.

This conversation (and some of the responses here) would be going a different route if the "broke while at the range" was substituted with "got my ass mugged and stabbed cause my pistol failed and CZ did not even say sorry." - No CZ did not mug and stab me, but the tool they sell which serves a primary purposes of killing things did not operate correctly.

People DO get a bit defensive when you talk about their favorite CZs. But other people seem to dive off the other side of the same diving board with their criticism. They can all end up in water that's over their heads.

I would argue that your statement is wrong on many levels, too, and that we could the same sort of claim about any gun that fails and is mentioned on this forum. If the failure had happened 300 rounds later, would that have been any better? Would you feel better about getting mugged, then? WHEN IT HAPPENED is less relevant than the fact that it happened. And it happens with other guns, too.

The fact that it happened at the range, however, is relevant -- as that's where a rational person goes to try out a new weapon before deciding to put it the carry rotation or use it for home defense. Maybe you would normally just take a new gun out of the box and put them in your holster and start carrying -- or put it into a bedside stand?

Sorry you didn't get warm and fuzzy responses when you talked with a CZ customer service rep. Try getting that from warmth from most other gunmakers. Some of them won't really talk to you by phone; my experience with Beretta hasn't been outstanding, and while Ruger has always been GREAT in performing service, they can be a bit off-putting, too.

While such a failure could have happened with other guns, I wonder if your reaction would have been different if the gun had been a SIG or Glock? talking with S&W is almost always a pleasant experience, and they're about the only ones i've dealt with who ARE consistently that way.

nonamehavei

April 23, 2012, 06:51 PM

Is this forum not here to discuss firearms and things related to firearms?

But more to the point...

Seems kind of petty to go after me when it was requested I share my experience after the first phone call.

The High Road - correct? :confused::barf:

Didn't mean to come off snarky, certainly wasn't "going after you" just wondering if you did anything to try to actually resolve your issue with CZ customer service or were making more of a PSA "CZ customer service is not all its cracked up to be." sort of thing.

nonamehavei

April 23, 2012, 06:54 PM

You should get a Kimber.

LOL:D

StrikeFire83

April 23, 2012, 07:09 PM

Hmmm, the PO7 Duty looks like a stinker. I bought my 75B used and you can see from my signature how many rounds I have through it and how many malfunctions I've experienced.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 07:14 PM

If the failure had happened 300 rounds later, would that have been any better? Would you feel better about getting mugged, then? WHEN IT HAPPENED is less relevant than the fact that it happened. And it happens with other guns, too.

The amount of rounds is irrelevant. Being mugged and stabbed due to a weapon failure and the company not even showing concern would have garnered a much different response and you know it.

50 rounds, 300 rounds, 1000 rounds - none of these are the same as 10,000 rounds. (Or how about 5,000 rounds based on the post before me?)

CZ-75B: 5,450 rounds, 0 malfunctions

Thanks for helping me prove my point. :)

Maybe you just take a new gun out of the box and put them in your holster and start carrying -- or put it into a bedside stand...

Irrelevant and more to the point, no ones business. This would be akin to buying a Lambo and 3 lights down from the dealership the brakes completely fail and you go into an intersection and get plowed by a bus. Then afterwards Lambo manufacturer sends you response to your hospital room where you are in a body cast and say, "We'll give you a new one."

Guess I should have tested the brakes speeding around the dealership lot prior to buying it.

What if it was a $3,000 Wilson that had a failure out the box. "Meh, we'll warranty it" and no apology?

I guess there is no winning this discussion with some people. And thus our customer service industry will continue to treat us like numbers and have a ho-hum attitude since there are 10 people who accept complacency behind the 1 who will not.

De-valuing the dollar one day at a time.

:(

larryh1108

April 23, 2012, 07:37 PM

I'm sorry but I refuse to be called complacent because they didn't say "I'm sorry". You called them because you want your gun fixed. They sent a shipping label to send it back. Hopefully it will get back to you in perfect order. If that is complacent then we have different definitions. Complacent is saying "Oh well, it broke. Maybe I should go buy a Glock" and do nothing to get it fixed and you throw it in your safe, never to be seen again. I don't call it poor customer service, either. They did what they were supposed to do. I suppose if you buy $100K in computer hardware you may want your ego stroked a bit or if you spend $200K on your Lambo an "I'm sorry" will make you feel better. All you are really saying here is that some minimum wage employee didn't say "I'm sorry". You can't say they didn't offer to fix it. You can't say they didn't offer to pay shipping. You can't say they told you too bad. You're upset that it could have failed when you needed it the most. Well, any gun that fails for whatever reason has the same "what if". Your mood seems to indicate that it's ok if it's someone else's gun but how dare it be your gun that breaks. I don't get it. Call a supervisor and I'd bet they say "I'm sorry no one said "I'm sorry" and all will be well again. Yeah, were complacent. We get it fixed without someone saying "I'm sorry". I guess some people have different needs when their feelings get hurt.

wrangler708

April 23, 2012, 07:59 PM

wow...

So many people calling the bare minimum "great customer service".

Great customer service includes empathy and some semblance of human touch and concern at the customers considerable inconvenience.

Just fixing the gun is not enough. CZ got their money. The customer has bupkiss until he gets his pistol back. This thread is proof positive that his confidence is shaken in the product. CZ would have a long row to hoe with me if I was on the other end of that phone.

Bullshiza on this being great customer service.

Ash

April 23, 2012, 08:00 PM

You wanna have them hold your hand, okay, that is what defines good customer service to you.

So, the real difference here is not whether or not your problem is being solved, but rather how much they cried with you? "Aw, man, that's a shame. I can't believe a product broke and thank goodness you were not hurt, your family was not mugged, and your dog didn't get run over. I'll tell you, I bought a coat one time and the buttons fell right off. RIGHT OFF! Man, this world sure sucks, ever since Adam and Eve ate of that lousy fruit! Man, I feel your pain. I FEEL your pain. Here, want a tissue? No? Okay. Well, I'll tell you what, let me send you a little old shipping label. If you don't mind, could you please use your own box? If it's not too much trouble? Why, yes, we'll pay for shipping both ways to make sure you're whole. Could we send some chamomile so help fix our dastardly ways?"

Great customer service takes care of the problem without hassle. That is what you got. No hassle, not red tape, nothing. That is great customer service. You got great customer service. You got no empathy, but that's not the same. I can't imagine what might happen if you went to the farm-supply with a broken part and expected empathy as they fixed your problem.

If that seems harsh, I don't mean it so. But you did get great service.

Micro

April 23, 2012, 08:12 PM

I'm an insurance adjuster. I see this sort of argument all the time. "I could have been killed." Okay, you could have been killed. But you weren't killed. And we will speak to the level of your actual loss, not a "coulda been."

Your gun broke. It happens. You didn't get stabbed as a result. You didn't lose your life. You didn't get a boo boo of any sort. So he didn't kiss you on the forehead and make it all better. Frankly, I doubt that's the expectation of the vast majority of their customers. The maker has agreed to get your gun in at their expense, fix it, and get it back to you. That's what most customers want and that's what you got. You could have gotten a helluva lost worse (you'll find out when your Glock takes a nose dive into the crapper).

armoredman

April 23, 2012, 08:34 PM

Let me interject in this before it gets any more out of hand - I have a REAL good idea who you talked to. :) He is ALWAYS like that, to anybody that calls. He's the kind of guy that would sound the same if the building was on fire, or in the middle of an earthquake. He's good people, just so laid back sounding that it's incredible. You will get exactly what you need as fast as he can get it to you, as he doesn't WORK like he talks. I can say that from personal experience. ;)
I'm sorry it wasn't quite the experience you wanted, and I have spoken to almost everyone that works there except Alice. Be glad Mike Eagleshield doesn't work there any more - he was the ONLY CZ certified gunsmith in the US for a long time, and the crankiest man on Earth.
Let us know, (everyone seeing this? I'm ASKING HIM TO SHARE!!!), how long it take and what the results are, please? Thank you.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 08:35 PM

I'm an insurance adjuster. I see this sort of argument all the time. "I could have been killed." Okay, you could have been killed. But you weren't killed. And we will speak to the level of your actual loss, not a "coulda been."

Why do people take things out of context? The only reason that situation was used was to make a point that the responses garnered would have been much different, but because where the weapon malfunctioned it is more light hearted in nature apparently.

So many things taken out of context here.

Though there is some comical attachments to people debating what customer service is with someone who's job function is to provide said customer service (even as a technical analyst) to multimillion dollar clients.

In this thread we learn that some people will make up anything (usually its about mansions, cars, and hot women), in this case knowing anything about customer service. Having been in the industry in some form or another for 15 years its easy to see the knee high gathering when people try to talk like they have an understanding of one of the most important factors that decides if a company sinks or swims.

(Taurus even acknowledged at NRA meeting of 2012 that they dropped the ball in this department and they are redirecting resources to tighten this area up. Companies don't make an announcement like this unless their bottom line is being effected. They don't do this stuff to be "nice" - they do it because a business exists to make money, not be your friend.)

What if this was my only pistol? And now its broken and I have nothing to defend myself while its getting repaired. Luckily its not - but I feel for anyone who managed to scape together a few extra pennies in this economy and now their only means of self defense could be gone from one to who knows how many weeks.

So much single minded theorycrafting going on here.

I knew it was pretty much a wash when people started using terms like "hold my hand" or "cry with me" which pretty much means the bottom of the barrel has been reached and now exaggerations are being employed because a lack of any other avenue is available.

To think that so much could come from just expecting a simple word like "Sorry" would be put up in equal terms like someone ranting they want free stuff (read; extra swag or mags) cause something broke.

Anyhow, suppose I'll update once I get it back and how long it took.

Edit:

Let me interject in this before it gets any more out of hand - I have a REAL good idea who you talked to. He is ALWAYS like that, to anybody that calls. He's the kind of guy that would sound the same if the building was on fire, or in the middle of an earthquake. He's good people, just so laid back sounding that it's incredible. You will get exactly what you need as fast as he can get it to you, as he doesn't WORK like he talks. I can say that from personal experience.
I'm sorry it wasn't quite the experience you wanted, and I have spoken to almost everyone that works there except Alice. Be glad Mike Eagleshield doesn't work there any more - he was the ONLY CZ certified gunsmith in the US for a long time, and the crankiest man on Earth.
Let us know, (everyone seeing this? I'm ASKING HIM TO SHARE!!!), how long it take and what the results are, please? Thank you.

I won't dispute this. Considering my pistol has not been repaired yet I cannot comment on the speed or capability of their workers.

The post merely comments on the front line support of the company.

Ash

April 23, 2012, 09:02 PM

In case my previous post seems too harsh, I want to point out it was satire - I actually hold nothing but respect for Titan and hope the pistol gets fixed quickly. Many, such as SIG, require you to pay for shipping to them. CZ is doing good in this case.

Micro

April 23, 2012, 09:26 PM

I respect Titan, too. But let's be realistic.

Titan, you’ve had one exposure to CZ’s customer service department. Your problem has been addressed in a manner most people would think is completely adequate. You obviously don’t think that. You had higher, nay I say, emotional needs. Those emotional needs were not met. As a result, you’ve publicly declared that you will take the product that will ultimately be fixed, sell the product, and never do business with that company again. So be it. What else is there to say? You’ve said your piece.

Consider this: most companies don’t have a goal true internal goal of 100% customer satisfaction. And it’s precisely because there are people that can’t be satisfied and will find something to complain about. Even my company, for whom I’ve worked for 20 years, and who not only consistently scores as top customer service provider in the insurance field, but best in customer service among any company regardless of service or product, realistically understands not everyone will be pleased. I suspect if it wasn’t the lack of a warm-and-fuzzy response, you would have found another reason to declare CZ was to be put out of your life.

Whatever you think of CZ, their customer service department is extremely well regarded. (They cared enough about you to take care of your problem.) It’s one of the few gems out there that I see praised consistently across the net. That’s an envious distinction to have. You disagree. Understand you’re in the minority and mostly likely fit comfortably into that 2-3% of customers CZ knows they can’t satisfy.

spanishjames

April 23, 2012, 09:28 PM

I'm curious as to how your experience will turn out. I'm waiting on a new CZ75, and hope I never have to send it back for repair. Please follow up with the outcome.

As for customer service, I'm the opposite. I don't like it when a customer service rep. "acts" as if they're really concerned.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 09:38 PM

Your problem has been addressed in a manner most people would think is completely adequate

Statements lose stock when you use terms like this and speak on behalf of the unknown. (I am guilty of this myself, we often do it without knowing)

Far as I see the line is split in this thread.

This is a common problem on forums. I call it the "blinders effect" - you zone in and only acknowledge those who agree with you while willfully ignoring the opposite.

And it’s precisely because there are people that can’t be satisfied and will find something to complain about.

I fail to see how I am one of these people.

I suspect if it wasn’t the lack of a warm-and-fuzzy response, you would have found another reason to declare CZ was to be put out of your life.

Your proof? Is this what it has come to? Baseless accusations?

Understand you’re in the minority and mostly likely fit comfortably into that 2-3% of customers CZ knows they can’t satisfy.

You've figured this out all by me stating their lack of empathy (or this one employee)?

With all due respect, I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. You are basically taking business 101 and rewriting it. Yes there is a small percentage of customers that can never be made to be happy.

To come to the conclusion that my disappointment in lack of empathy would elevate me to this "2-3%" is way out of whack sir. That group of people should be reserved for those people who raise hell, get a bunch of free stuff to calm them and still are not happy. To think that expecting some form of apology (using any dialogue) for a malfunctioned weapon out the box is on this same level?

That is absurd...

:(

Certaindeaf

April 23, 2012, 09:48 PM

Were you able to see what was "broke" when you disassembled the pistol?

Hossfly68

April 23, 2012, 09:51 PM

I'll tell you exactly what those awkward pauses you mentioned were about.... He's in Customer Service and gets cussed at all day. He was waiting for you to cuss him like everybody else. When you didn't, it threw off his response and he saw no need to "calm you down" or promise you the moon. His feeling was that he had a decent guy on the phone and he'd take care off that guy and that he had given the customer everything he was able to give. Now, when you call back and give them the serial number for your gun, like you said you needed to do, you'll probably get another person who can help you get it fixed and may even be all giggly about it. Personally, I'd rather cut through the giddy "i'm so sorry" routine and just have somebody who is efficient and thorough and will get the repair process in motion. I would still be pissed about my new gun breaking though. But It sounds like you were nice and that guy won't forget the fact that one guy DIDN'T dog cuss him that day.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 09:51 PM

Were you able to see what was "broke" when you disassembled the pistol?

The furthest I will take down a new weapon is a field strip.

Yes, I gunsmith my own 1911s completely and so forth - however I did not want to do anything that would give a company grounds to void the warranty and refuse a repair.

It could be something simple, it could be a part imploded - I'll let them decide and not give them a reason to assume somehow I did it.

I'll tell you exactly what those awkward pauses you mentioned were about.... He's in Customer Service and gets cussed at all day. He was waiting for you to cuss him like everybody else. When you didn't, it threw off his response and he saw no need to "calm you down" or promise you the moon. His feeling was that he had a decent guy on the phone and he'd take care off that guy and that he had given the customer everything he was able to give. Now, when you call back and give them the serial number for your gun, like you said you needed to do, you'll probably get another person who can help you get it fixed and may even be all giggly about it. Personally, I'd rather cut through the giddy "i'm so sorry" routine and just have somebody who is efficient and thorough and will get the repair process in motion. I would still be pissed about my new gun breaking though. But It sounds like you were nice and that guy won't forget the fact that one guy DIDN'T dog cuss him that day.

I don't like the fake "we so sorry" every 15 seconds like anyone else. I would however expect at least one attempt to sound like "I care, even if its just slightly or next to none."

Some of the responses trying to portray me as some dude with sad puppy dog eyes and needing my hand held are so over the top and dramatic; those comments probably piss me off more than the whole CZ rep thing. And before MORE dramatic statements are made based on that comment, I use the term 'pissed' lightly for lack of a better description. More like a morbid annoyance that makes me wonder, "How can someone think this way?"

I was civil. He was civil. No harsh tones between either. I was just let down with the whole "Meh" aura given off - perceived or real. lol

Certaindeaf

April 23, 2012, 10:15 PM

Well, at least you checked it out to see if a stray hunk o brass or something wasn't gumming up the works. Anyway, hope it all gets sorted out.

Micro

April 23, 2012, 10:33 PM

Statements lose stock when you use terms like this and speak on behalf of the unknown. (I am guilty of this myself, we often do it without knowing)

But it isn’t unknown. Peruse the net. CZ CS has an excellent reputation. Even you said you relied upon the recommendations of people that apparently held the same opinion. It is well know that many people hold CZ’s CS in high regard.

This is a common problem on forums. I call it the "blinders effect" - you zone in and only acknowledge those who agree with you while willfully ignoring the opposite.

That’s silly. I just don’t agree that you have a valid complaint. You do, I don’t. Indeed, it has been you that has taken issue with anyone that hasn’t sympathized with you. Have you once just sat back and thought that maybe the “meh” tone you experienced didn’t reflect the true feelings of the person to whom you spoke? Maybe that’s just the way they sound. You got ahold of a person that sounds technically competent to me and provided you with the appropriate solution. He just didn’t “sound” the way you wanted him to sound while he was doing it. You think that’s a big deal, and I don’t. I would have thought not providing you with an appropriate solution would have been a big deal. And no sympathetic tone of voice would compensate for a lack of an appropriate solution.

You’ve come to the conclusion that a company is unworthy of your business based on a single, short, interaction with one customer service rep who “sounded” unempathetic, but who did provide you with an appropriate solution to your problem. Not because they provided you with a bad product, but because they didn’t SOUND the way you wanted them to. It’s really that simple. Whether or not the person you talked to is representative of all their people is unknown to me. But what is clear, is that whatever their overall character, CZ has garnered a high reputation. I suspect they will maintain it, your opinion nothwithstanding. And that’s how you get into the 2-3% group.

(And by the way, I don't have an issue with you or your character. I just don't agree with you on this subject. You and I would probably agree on 99% of other issue, or we wouldn't be part of a site like this.)

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 10:33 PM

More research is showing sadly I must have an older version with an A series serial numbers. Seems CZ has been out right replacing a lot of pistols with a new B series.

Ugh, who knows how long this thing was sitting and being fondled by lookie-loos at the store. lol

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 10:40 PM

That’s silly. I just don’t agree that you have a valid complaint. You do, I don’t. Indeed, it has been you that has taken issue with anyone that hasn’t sympathized with you. Have you once just sat back and thought that maybe the “meh” tone you experienced didn’t reflect the true feelings of the person to whom you spoke? Maybe that’s just the way they sound. You got ahold of a person that sounds technically competent to me and provided you with the appropriate solution. He just didn’t “sound” the way you wanted him to sound while he was doing it. You think that’s a big deal, and I don’t. I would have thought not providing you with an appropriate solution would have been a big deal. And no sympathetic tone of voice would compensate for a lack of an appropriate solution.

You’ve come to the conclusion that a company is unworthy of your business based on a single, short, interaction with one customer service rep who “sounded” unempathetic, but who did provide you with an appropriate solution to your problem. Not because they provided you with a bad product, but because they didn’t SOUND the way you wanted them to. It’s really that simple. Whether or not the person you talked to is representative of all their people is unknown to me. But what is clear, is that whatever their overall character, CZ has garnered a high reputation. I suspect they will maintain it, your opinion nothwithstanding. And that’s how you get into the 2-3% group.

(And by the way, I don't have an issue with you or your character. I just don't agree with you on this subject. You and I would probably agree on 99% of other issue, or we wouldn't be part of a site like this.)

Fair enough. The problem usually arises when people like to use lightly veiled jabs when they disagree.

Examples:

To be upset just because the guy was "monotone" might be well...just a tick over the top?

...or immediately come to the internet to complain to people who have absolutely no bearing on the situation?

I don't know if anything this guy said would have made you happy. I don't know you from Adam, but you are coming off as a generally angry person.

Maybe you would normally just take a new gun out of the box and put them in your holster and start carrying -- or put it into a bedside stand?

I guess some people have different needs when their feelings get hurt.

You wanna have them hold your hand, okay, that is what defines good customer service to you.

I suspect if it wasn’t the lack of a warm-and-fuzzy response, you would have found another reason to declare CZ was to be put out of your life.

Understand you’re in the minority and mostly likely fit comfortably into that 2-3% of customers CZ knows they can’t satisfy.

You'll have to forgive me that my responses to these tid-bits of comments were not full of rainbow happiness and pixie farts. :)

Micro

April 23, 2012, 10:42 PM

Pixie Farts. See? Now you and I can agree on that!

FIVETWOSEVEN

April 23, 2012, 10:47 PM

If people based their opinions on a product with the first interaction with an employee, a lot of people wouldn't be shopping at Wal-Mart. Just forgive the monotone employee and enjoy your pistol when it comes back.

TITAN308

April 23, 2012, 10:52 PM

I never got this comparison.

Wal-Mart is not selling me a tool capable of killing and defending.

Just my 2 cents, but that is not a very good analogy. Clearly my level of care when comparing a package of toilet paper missing a roll is not going to to be the same as a gun that fails out the box.

You treat a bad batch of toothpaste with the same concern as a bad weapon?

Kiln

April 23, 2012, 11:06 PM

Hell Phoenix Arms treated me better than that when I called them, though I did have to pay to ship it to their factory. The conversation went like this:

Phoenix: Phoenix Arms this is (name) speaking how can I help you?

Me: Hi I bought a Phoenix model HP22 a while back, I have fired approximately 3,000 rounds through it and there is now a crack in the left side of the frame. I was calling to see about getting warranty work done on it.

Phoenix: Sure just take it to FEDEX and mail it to the factory, we'll fix or replace it and mail it back. Remember to include an up to date scan of your driver's license to verify your identity.

Me: Alright thank you.

Phoenix: Glad I could help you, have a nice day.

The whole time the woman sounded sincere and respectful.

Certaindeaf

April 23, 2012, 11:12 PM

^
Was her name "Peggy"? lolz

http://gaia.adage.com/images/bin/image/medium/11-discover-peggy-032811.jpg?1300916240

dcarch

April 23, 2012, 11:41 PM

Perhaps you should call them back and try again? Just a thought, but when I had trouble with my FNH, I talked to the CS at least four or five times during the process, and twice before I sent it.

Hossfly68

April 23, 2012, 11:58 PM

FIVETWOSEVEN

April 24, 2012, 12:13 AM

Wal-Mart is not selling me a tool capable of killing and defending.

You really think that they don't tools capable of killing? Some of them sell guns but overall, the comparison is the same. You have bad beef because of a customer service agent that didn't seem to care a whole lot. Was this gun your new CCW gun that you holstered without shooting? Were you trusting your life on this gun working? Seems like it was just a range gun that broke. I have a Savage rifle that has headspacing issues that isn't covered under Savage warranty because I found out the problem 3 years after owning it. (not a reloader and rarely shot it) I will buy another Savage rifle despite me being on my own with fixing this rifle. They'll fix your pistol completely free while I have to either pay to have it fixed or fix it myself.

TITAN308

April 24, 2012, 12:20 AM

Now that is a back peddle.

You didn't intend to mean comparing a faulty gun at Wal-Mart because we both know the retail store is irrelevant to to the point. Retail stores don't service guns once they are paid for.

You know what you meant and now I suspect you see the flaw in your analogy.

Good night.

12131

April 24, 2012, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by TITAN308:

Wal-Mart is not selling me a tool capable of killing and defending.

You know Wal-Mart is selling AR15s, now, right?:evil::p

Kiln

April 24, 2012, 07:12 AM

ku4hx

April 24, 2012, 08:02 AM

Wow. And here I was thinking sitting in the ER for six hours was bad Customer Service.

Walt Sherrill

April 24, 2012, 08:45 AM

And DON'T scan your drivers license! Call me paranoid, but I won't put it or a copy of it in anybody's hands unless it's my boss or a LEO. I will show it if asked, but only those two get to hold it. Besides, there's no way they can prove (through mail) that it's your license or if you clubbed the actual gun owner over the head and took his license and his broken gun.

OK: You're paranoid.

1) How would a photo copy of someone's driver's license help anyone do anything they needed to do, that they couldn't do without it? It takes a lot more than that to steal an identity, and there's generally not much on the DL's that isn't available elsewhere. (A voter registration card, for instance has almost the same info without the photo.)

2) Why would anyone assault a gun owner, steal a broken gun, and then send it off for repair? It could be repaired locally and sold far more easily, or sold "as is?" A thief, unless he's pretty stupid, is likely to want to move the gun quickly... and the BUYER of the stolen weapon would have to get it fixed. (The gun has a serial number and arguably would be reported as stolen.)

3) If the gun is in the gun maker's warranty system -- i.e., registered with them when purchased -- how would repairing the weapon and shipping it back to the registered owner (adult signature required) help the thief? The thief would either have to be living at the gun owner's address or be able to supply more than a photo copy of the original ID (with unmatching picture) when he tried to receive the weapon.

Paranoid might be too strong a term. Far more likely, the poster above is just inexperienced in matters having to do with the transfer or repair of firearms... One thing is clear: a broken, stolen weapon -- particularly one involved in what may be a felony assault -- isn't going to be sent off to the maker for repair by the perp.

skt239

April 24, 2012, 08:53 AM

The company I work for trains the CS people to be empathetic, relate to the customers concerns and offer a variety of solutions to suit the customers needs. Frankly, I think it's a bit over board. I hate talking to anyone I dont know on the phone. I prefer to deal in emails whenever I can.

jmr40

April 24, 2012, 09:40 AM

I had a similar experience back around 1999 with S&W and one of their Sigma's. It took 5 months, and 4 trips back to S&W, all at my expense, before they finally sent me a new gun. In 5 months I only got around 35 rounds through the gun.

When the new gun came in the guy at the gunshop allowed me what I originally paid for the 1st gun for the new version S&W finally sent me in trade for a Glock. Been happy ever since. CS could have been better and I spent lot on shipping. At least it was cheaper back then.

Never dealt with CZ customer service. I have found all their guns to be below my reliability standads and I simply sold all of mine off years ago.

Simple solution. Get it fixed, sell that hunk of junk at a loss and buy a quality gun. Stop trying to go cheap. Lesson learned. While I do feel for you, been in your shoes before, crying about it won't help.

ClickClickD'oh

April 24, 2012, 10:04 AM

Simple solution. Get it fixed, sell that hunk of junk at a loss and buy a quality gun. Stop trying to go cheap.

...advice from a Sigma owner....

TITAN308

April 24, 2012, 10:22 AM

Stop trying to go cheap.

Just for clarification I have a wide range of guns. I bought the P-07 because it felt good in the hand, felt right in the weight (loaded) and never owned a CZ.

You are talking to a guy who has invested thousands of dollars into a custom rifle project. I monitor my pennies in this economy just like any other Joe, but the CZ was purchased bade on reputation, not to be cheap.

(Its not like $475 + tax is all that cheap - thats hard earned dollars - seems now a days if it ain't $1,000+ for a pistol, its cheap lol)

TITAN308

April 24, 2012, 10:49 AM

Ok so I'll leave it at this and respond once the whole ordeal is over with;

I figured I'd just use email to get this done and show my cards. Whatever comes of it comes of it. We will just agree to disagree and that some expect a higher lever of CS than others, not meant in a negative manor, it is what it is, is all.

Good afternoon,

My name is Herpie Derpie and I recently purchased a brand new unfired CZ P-07 9MM model pistol from a local Academy Sports retail store. It was purchased on 4/14/2012.

On 4/21/2012 I took it to the range to break it in and around the 60-70 round marker (all Winchester White Box brass) I noticed that the single action trigger was no longer resetting about 25% of the time. I had to physically push the trigger forward and I could feel the trigger reset kick in. Out of curiousity I placed it into double action mode and discovered this does not work at all. You can pull the trigger all you want and nothing happens.

CZ75 P-07 Duty 9MM
Serial Number: herp derp

I called in yesterday to alert customer service to problem I find the proper steps to have pre-paid postage mailed out to me. Let me preface this by saying that the only thing CZ owes me through obligation is a working pistol. I am not demanding free swag, free mags, etc etc like so many customers I am sure you are dealing with.

However, the gentlement I spoke with yesterday, while completely civil and polite, did not offer one single apology for an out the box malfunction. He made no attempt to re-enforce the CZ reputation. The whole conversation was very cut and dry. While I do not expect free stuff for my troubles, I would have at the very least expected an apology and reassurance that this is not standard CZ quality.

If a representive of your company makes no attempts to express the quality of the product, why would I want to keep and possibly carry for defense one of your weapons? Some say I am overreacting - but the incident left a very sour taste in my mouth. This is my first CZ pistol. I did not buy it because another company failed me, I bought it based on the reputation and feedback I heard from the community.

Thank you for your time,

yada yada address/name/contact info

armoredman

April 24, 2012, 11:07 AM

Oh, and be careful, should be a moderator along any moment to criticize your title spelling...

TITAN308

April 24, 2012, 11:24 AM

I spelled it "broked" to put a little humor into the topic, no idea it would get so serious. lol

StrikeFire83

April 24, 2012, 02:09 PM

So what happens if they give you your coveted apology? You can't use that apology to buy lunch. You can't shoot that apology. You can't carry that spare apology and reload your gun with it.

Why take the time write a "strongly worded letter" and then not ask for some mags and swag?

I'll take tangible things that I can use over a "heartfelt" apology any day of the week. But, diff'rent strokes fo' diff'rent folks.

TITAN308

April 24, 2012, 02:20 PM

Because an apology is what men use to do when they messed up or provided something that did not work correctly.

I suppose before that a duel at 10 paces was in order.

I am not part of the "gimmie gimmie gimmie" generation.

StrikeFire83

April 24, 2012, 02:34 PM

Well, the vast majority of us seem to think that while your original displeasure at the malfunction was completely warranted, your reaction to the CZ rep's "lack of empathy" was a bit petty.

Born in 1983, I guess I'm a member of the Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie generation.

:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZnRYI-aMG4

larryh1108

April 24, 2012, 03:00 PM

I'm from the generation that if it's under warranty, I want it fixed on their dime. If it's not under warranty and they fixed it at no cost they'd probably earn a customer for life. I expect it to work but, like all mechanical items, shif does happen and if it does, save the apologies and fix it right the first time. What I see that really fires me up is waiting X weeks to get it back and it's still not fixed. If they won't take the time to test fire it enough times to ensure it's fixed properly then that's where they'll lose a customer. I'd also expect them to correct anything else they found could be a future problem at the same time. I don't want free anything, I just want it fixed right the first time. Apologies from a CSR who says "I'm sorry" 100 times a day is, to me, hollow and insincere. Reading apologies from a script means nothing to me. Fix it the first time and I'm happy.

12131

April 24, 2012, 04:12 PM

Well, the vast majority of us seem to think that while your original displeasure at the malfunction was completely warranted, your reaction to the CZ rep's "lack of empathy" was a bit petty.

That about sums it up. TITAN308 is not gonna be convinced to change his mind about the whole situation. Let just leave it at that. If I were mod, this thread would be closed just about...now!:evil:

NG VI

April 24, 2012, 04:25 PM

I'm with 7thCavScout on this one.

Sapper771

April 24, 2012, 05:31 PM

^ I agree with NGIV.

Micro

April 24, 2012, 06:35 PM

Born in 1983, I guess I'm a member of the Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie generation.

I prefer to think of you as the "Text While You Drive Generation." :)

Gun_Shy

April 24, 2012, 06:40 PM

And if you are serious, you are one of thousands upon thousands that have degraded customer service to what it is today. 30 years ago it was a privilege to have a customer and you treated them like VIP. Now a days as long as it doesn't involve a lawyer and loosing money, "screw em - we have enough backorder of customers he won't matter."

There's no doubt that if your call to CZ was being "monitored for quality assurance" the service rep won't be getting any gold stars from his supervisor (although you never know, he may be the supervisor!).

But one of the advantages to having been around awhile is that I can remember customer service from 30 years ago, and I don't recall being "treated ... like a VIP" very often. In fact, my recollection is that for as far back as I can remember (and 30 years is not the limit) the customer service I've experienced has ranged between excellent, good, indifferent, bad, and hostile -- all in the same year, and sometimes from the same company.

It may be that by "30 years ago" you really just meant "in the good old days," but sentimental nostalgia for "back when people were nicer, the grass was greener (or stronger, depending on your preference) and everything was better" generally has little basis in anything except crankiness with one's present circumstances and the often crotchety complaint that every younger generation is going to hell in a handbasket. And listens to music that just can't compare to when I was young. Dang whippersnappers!

Bill

TITAN308

April 24, 2012, 08:51 PM

I'm sure some of you will like this;

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/04/robert-farago/irresponsible-gun-owner-of-the-day-llarms30813/comment-page-1/#comment-253825

Apparently I'm famous now. And stupid apparently.

That is a real shame since I've always went to that website daily.

Real nice way to throw someone under the bus. Did I mention no one emailed me to ask if the weapon was hot?

Weevil

April 24, 2012, 09:23 PM

Oh I wouldn't say you're stupid.

A whiny crybaby perhaps but not stupid.

Come on bud, what difference does it make if they're all gushy and crying their eyes out over your problem or cold and strictly all business.

Personally I'd rather have a "monotone" rep that takes care of business than some phony pretending that they actually care.

As long as they get the job done that's all that matters to me.

larryh1108

April 24, 2012, 09:41 PM

Wow, I didn't agree with the OP but he sure didn't deserve this bashing. He seems to be a great guy otherwise. The fact that he comes back to make light-hearted jokes and he even posted his 15 minutes of shame shows he's a cool head. He needs some loving, not more grief.

Micro

April 24, 2012, 09:50 PM

I'm sure some of you will like this;

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...comment-253825

Apparently I'm famous now. And stupid apparently.

That is a real shame since I've always went to that website daily.

Real nice way to throw someone under the bus. Did I mention no one emailed me to ask if the weapon was hot?

I agree that is low budget. But its nice to know any dumbass can start a topic on that website.

And I very much agree, it's gotten way out of hand. It's one thing to disagree as to whether or not the OP got proper customer service. It much another to cast disparagements at the man. Definitely not the High Road.

TITAN308

April 24, 2012, 10:07 PM

Edit Woops, nm.

StrikeFire83

April 24, 2012, 10:19 PM

I prefer to think of you as the "Text While You Drive Generation."

No no, those are the kids about 5 or 10 years behind me. Oh, I text, and I own a smartphone, but I'm not like these "Millennials" who can't go 5 minutes without stroking their phones.

dcarch

April 24, 2012, 11:00 PM

Seriously, guys, get off of the OP's back. Even if you think he did make a mistake, shouldn't we all take the High Road here and try to constructively offer help, instead of just tearing him apart? And just to go on a little tangent here, the comments and the story on TTAG made me madder than I've been in a long time. Apparently you can say whatever you want when you hide behind a keyboard. Poor show, guys, poor show.

TITAN308

April 24, 2012, 11:06 PM

Heres some more entertainment from TTAG;

Dom1104 says:
April 24, 2012 at 22:42

If anyone is interested, go to The High Road and read the Brand New CZ is Broked thread to see how CZ is handling the issue.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=655662

Conspiracy by THR admins to increase traffic? (that was a joke...)

lol

I apologize, I took the video down. I mean if I am gonna be some websites traffic flow for the evening they aren't going to use my own video to make me a punching bag. I'm all for laughing at myself (plenty of times in this thread) - but gets to the point where its not funny anymore.

larryh1108

April 24, 2012, 11:15 PM

This is the closest I've ever been to a celebrity. So, how does 15 minutes of fame feel? Also, this thread is getting close to 100 posts. That's a milestone too!

TITAN308

April 24, 2012, 11:18 PM

Now the author of the article on TTAG is claiming my gun went bang during the video and someone telling me to "remove the magazine".

You have removed the video, but I distinctly remember that the gun went bang and then you pumped the trigger. Also, I recall your shooting buddy telling you to remove the magazine.

I'm curious how no one here noticed this in 3 pages and brought it up, but somehow his super hearing and first hand knowledge had the ability to report it.

What a disgusting way to run a blog just to drum up hits.

TennJed

April 25, 2012, 12:17 AM

Well, I USED to go the truth about guns, but I will NOT visit the site again. It is a shame that they need web hits bad enough to over blow a situation like that.

The 4 rules are good to follow but it is obvious to me that you were demostrating a broken gun for the camera. Not the best place to put your hand (always practice safe handling), but I could spend a week on youtube watching far worse cases of handling guns. The people that deserve ridicule are the people that think it is funny to have their girlfriend shoot their 454 or drink (to excess) while shooting. Most other people violating the 4 rules need teaching not ridicule (IMHO).

**edit to add, I just noticed it was the AUTHOR that claimed the gun went bang. WOW, I am suprised that someone would have the lack of good sense to post and ridicule something they have not even watched. He either flat out lied or failed to even view the video before posting. Hope he shoots better than he "writes"

Kiln

April 25, 2012, 01:45 AM

Now the author of the article on TTAG is claiming my gun went bang during the video and someone telling me to "remove the magazine".

I'm curious how no one here noticed this in 3 pages and brought it up, but somehow his super hearing and first hand knowledge had the ability to report it.

What a disgusting way to run a blog just to drum up hits.
I heard someone say "drop the mag" then something else and clear "forward, keep it on sight". Seems to me that somebody is obviously instructing another shooter in the background of your video. You've got to really turn up the volume to hear it but it seems clear to me that it isn't you they guy is talking to.

Micro

April 25, 2012, 06:06 AM

Kiln

April 25, 2012, 06:50 AM

Wanna see the definition of a "gun bubba?" Read Maddawg J's comments on that site. “Try any of what is seen in this video on my range and you will be warned with my gun pointed at you to cease immediately.” What a friggin' tool.
Yeah lets have a shootout at the range instead of simply saying "hey don't do that" and moving on. It is guys like that who give antigun advocates the ammunition (lol) to use against us.

TITAN308

April 25, 2012, 07:28 AM

Robert is apparently the owner of the website as well.

So against my better judgement I put the video back up based on his word if he was wrong about my gun going off and the mag dropping, he would remove the post and issue a public apology.

Instead here is what I get:

Yesterday, I named YouTuber LLARMS30813 our Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Day (IGOTD). He protested, claiming that he hadn’t broken any of the four rules of gun safety as I’d suggested. Upon further viewing, I discovered that the words “Drop the mag, clear and safe” came from a nearby instructor who wasn’t talking to LLARMS30813. And it is possible the shot heard at the beginning of the video came from his left. So we must accept LLARMS30813′s contention that he’d cleared the gun prior to dry-firing the bejesus out of the firearm. Some live by the rule that you should treat all guns as if they’re loaded—even when they’re not. Some don’t. LLARMS30813 was clearly not aiming the gun downrange during his public “test” and his support fingers are in a very bad place. Is that enough to label him an IGOTD? I know I wouldn’t have wanted to be standing on his left but . . . should I delete that post and this one and issue an apology?

LLARMS30813 says:
April 25, 2012 at 07:22

Robert Farago says:
April 24, 2012 at 23:14

“Restore the video. If I was wrong I will issue a pubic apology and remove this post.”

—

I guess this translates into

“Well, ok – I was wrong – but let me think about it, or find some other reason to leave it up – better yet, let me ask everyone else instead of honoring my word”.

Does this sound about right Robert Farago? Against my better judgement I restored the video based on your word. Thanks for the re-enforcement and I doubt your readers will call you on this.

meanmrmustard

April 25, 2012, 07:49 AM

TITAN308

April 25, 2012, 09:41 AM

All is good on the TTAG front;

Apology to LLARMS30813
Posted on April 25, 2012 by Robert Farago

As publisher of The Truth About Guns, I apologize to LLARMS30813 for labeling him our Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Day. This was an unfair characterization based on my misinterpretation of his YouTube video. I regret the post and will take more care in the future when analyzing material for this category. To maintain the integrity of this apology I have closed the comments section underneath this post. If any reader wants to comment on my decision, please do so via email: guntruth@me.com.

I applaud Robert for manning up and honoring his word.

Kiln

April 25, 2012, 04:16 PM

Cool, glad all has been made right. I can see how he might have misinterpreted your video but honestly I can't see the big deal they made over it.

There wasn't actually a body part blocking the barrel at any given time during the video.

TITAN308

April 25, 2012, 04:19 PM

I'm surprised no one watched the one other video on my channel and raised hell because I wasn't wearing glasses. lol

Micro

April 25, 2012, 06:43 PM

Sssshhhhhhhhhh!

TITAN308

April 30, 2012, 10:14 PM

They confirmed it arrived Friday. Now I sit and wait I suppose.

meanmrmustard

April 30, 2012, 10:24 PM

Kiln

April 30, 2012, 10:35 PM

Everyone's a range officer. That's why i shoot on my land, how I want, when I want. I teach my children proper safety and technique, and how I shoot is my business. If I get hurt or worse, no one to blame but myself. When others are shooting near me, I wear hearing protection, and alone I wear what I want, shoot how I want, and as much as I'd like or ammo allows. Safety nazis annoy me to no end.
Same.

I follow the NRA rules to safe gun handling but I hate having someone watch over me like a hawk at public ranges waiting for me to make a mistake. In reality I'm less likely to make a mistake if I'm able to relax than if I have some dirt bag watching over me and making me nervous.

This is why I wait and shoot on family member's land instead.

dubya450

May 1, 2012, 01:11 AM

Delete

donato

May 1, 2012, 08:43 AM

I find this post/thread very amusing. You can find similar ones on other forums too.

Gun breaks and the owner immediately has to get on a forum and give everyone a "heads -up" (Whine) about their problem. Why is this necessary??

Over the past several years, I've had two CZs and two Rugers go back to the factory (Shipping cost on the factory) for warranty work. Never had any complaints with customer services. Except for one which occurred over the Christmas/New Years holidays, all guns were back in my hand in about two weeks after the factory received the gun. And, I've never felt the need to get on a gun forum to advertise/discuss/look for sympathy regarding my problems with the gun.

By the way, when you call customer service, always be prepared by having all the necessary information (about the gun) at hand. Don't call from work and say I'll have to get back later with the info, I'm just calling now to see "what if" - your wasting the CS reps time.

Deal with the CS folks in a professional/mature manner and you will get much further along. And keep your problems to yourself.

f4t9r

May 1, 2012, 09:59 AM

get it back sell it and get something else. Then you will be done with CZ.
When something does not work like you feel it should and things did not go well with customer service, it is hard to feel good about that product.

TITAN308

May 1, 2012, 10:02 AM

I find this post/thread very amusing. You can find similar ones on other forums too.

Gun breaks and the owner immediately has to get on a forum and give everyone a "heads -up" (Whine) about their problem. Why is this necessary??

I find this post/thread very amusing. You can find similar ones on other forums too.

Person complains that someone is discussing a gun related topic on a gun forum. Why is this necessary?

By the way, when you call customer service, always be prepared by having all the necessary information (about the gun) at hand. Don't call from work and say I'll have to get back later with the info, I'm just calling now to see "what if" - your wasting the CS reps time.

Whatever. I was on my lunch break and wanted to get as much info as I could with some free time. The phone call lasted a whoppin' 2 minutes I think. If I wanted to call in and just ask some questions, never mind to inquire about returning something, the company should be happy to oblige.

Deal with the CS folks in a professional/mature manner and you will get much further along.

I'm assuming you did not bother to read all the details. Both myself and the rep were very "professional/mature", that wasn't the topic at hand.

And keep your problems to yourself.

And you can keep your opinions to yourself if you feel that way. If you can't handle gun topics being discussed on a gun forum, perhaps I can show you over to hellokittyonline.com that might be more your speed.

I love your post, its nothing more than a "do as I say, not as I do" representation.

Kiln

May 1, 2012, 04:10 PM

donato

May 1, 2012, 04:56 PM

I'm with Titan on this one. It is none of your business that he posted his experience on the boards. Anyone is entitled to do so.

If you have a problem with failure reports then stay out of the thread in question, it really is that simple.

You sweet on him or something?? The guy is WHINING! I mean, he is tattling on the CZ rep. Go to his boss and complain if you must. But, what are you trying to accomplish here on this forum?

donato

May 1, 2012, 05:21 PM

@ TITAN308.

:eek: You seem real knowledgeable regarding the hellokitty web site.

larryh1108

May 1, 2012, 05:36 PM

The guy is WHINING!

Yes, but he is whining about a gun related matter on a gun forum. Imagine if we didn't have members whining about a bad gun or how ammo is getting scarce or how a LGS screwed them. Imagine this forum if we forbid comparing ammo for one stop shots or which 9mm for carry or which 1 gun would you have if the SHTF or zombie apocolypse? Wait, how about another picture of a Glock or M&P? At least 1911s you can accessorize. How about another revolver vs semi thread? I know, how about a Kimber bashing thread? We can discuss the minimum caliber for carry! Point is, almost everything we discuss has been hashed and rehashed many times and if we limited this forum to no whining and no duplicate threads we'd have to close it down.

donato

May 1, 2012, 05:43 PM

Yes, but he is whining about a gun related matter on a gun forum. Imagine if we didn't have members whining about a bad gun or how ammo is getting scarce or how a LGS screwed them. Imagine this forum if we forbid comparing ammo for one stop shots or which 9mm for carry or which 1 gun would you have if the SHTF or zombie apocolypse? Wait, how about another picture of a Glock or M&P? At least 1911s you can accessorize. How about another revolver vs semi thread? I know, how about a Kimber bashing thread? We can discuss the minimum caliber for carry! Point is, almost everything we discuss has been hashed and rehashed many times and if we limited this forum to no whining and no duplicate threads we'd have to close it down.

Yep. And, we'd probably be better off.

dcarch

May 1, 2012, 06:30 PM

Titan had a valid failure with his firearm. He was reporting his subjective experience with CZ's customer service. I don't see a problem here. I'm not in a position to judge, as I have not had a need for CZ's CS. And I for one would really like to see how this turns out, so can't we all play nice so this thread doesn't get locked? Just once?

Walt Sherrill

May 1, 2012, 06:31 PM

I'm with Titan on this one. It is none of your business that he posted his experience on the boards. Anyone is entitled to do so.

If you have a problem with failure reports then stay out of the thread in question, it really is that simple.

I've read all the messages here, including Titan's -- and his responses to some of the things I wrote. His original post and subsequent comments were NOT just a failure report. A number of us agreed with him that the failure of his P07 the first time out was NOT a good thing, and he got a lot of sympathy on that count. It was some of his other comments that stirred things up a bit.

And, contrary to your assertion above, it's all open for discussion. This is a discussion board.

On the other hand, you seem to be demonstrating a double standard when you tell Donato that he can't (i.e., isn't entitled to...) comment on the original poster's comments, but you feel free to comment on his (Donato's) posts.

There's something strange about that logic.

Kiln

May 1, 2012, 06:57 PM

I've read all the messages here, including Titan's -- and his responses to some of the things I wrote. His original post and subsequent comments were NOT just a failure report. A number of us agreed with him that the failure of his P07 the first time out was NOT a good thing, and he got a lot of sympathy on that count. It was some of his other comments that stirred things up a bit.

And, contrary to your assertion above, it's all open for discussion. This is a discussion board.

On the other hand, you seem to be demonstrating a double standard when you tell Donato that he can't (i.e., isn't entitled to...) comment on the original poster's comments, but you feel free to comment on his (Donato's) posts.

There's something strange about that logic.
My point was if all you are going to contribute is: "don't post this" then feel free to avoid the thread.

Nobody forced the guy to come here and read OP's post knowing full well what the contents would be. My point was, if you don't like the content being discussed then there is nothing forcing you to take part in it.

I avoid discussions frequently because of that exact reason.

benzy2

May 1, 2012, 07:42 PM

I for one am glad to hear that CZ has no issues sending a prepaid shipping label out for a firearm under warranty and covering any issues that come up. I'll leave the hurt feelings aside. I do thank you for your report Titan as it has reassured me that if I bought a CZ today and had an issue, there would be a shipping label to me quickly to replace or repair my firearm. That is enough for me.

Walt Sherrill

May 1, 2012, 08:02 PM

Nobody forced the guy to come here and read OP's post knowing full well what the contents would be.

How would anyone know "full well what the contents would be" without reading the contents?

I joined the discussion expecting a post about firearm failure and hoping for some technical details. I have no experience with the CZ P07, but am a big fan of the metal CZs; I wanted to know more about the P07.

It took us a while to get the details. Before all of the details came out, however, the discussion had expanded to include a screed addressing the dangers of guns failing when carried, and a critique of proper customer service techniques (and the best ways to soothe the savage Breast). Nobody forced any of us to read those comments and responses. But we did.

Donato seemed to feel that Titan went overboard in his criticism of a customer service rep's treatment of him. You felt Donato went overboard in his criticism of Titan. Some others think YOU went overboard in your criticisms of Donato. I think all of you are right.

These same things said a bit more gently might have made their intended points more effectively, but this format doesn't seem to lend itself to gentle or thoughtful presentations.

It's just so much easier to be DRAMATIC and watch the stuff hit the fan...

I'm looking forward to see how this story ends, how the factory-fixed P07 performs, and whether the OP sells it as he seems ready to do, once it is returned. I also am curious about the other five guns he bought, and how they're doing (and whether they will also fail when they're first used.)

.

donato

May 1, 2012, 08:55 PM

Let me try to be a little nicer, if I can.

To explain myself a bit: I’m not real attached to gun forums; I don’t have any friends and don’t want any. So when my gun breaks, I have no desire/need to get on a forum and discuss my gun’s problem with others. If the gun breaks, I know it’s broken so I get on the phone with customer service and make arrangements to get it fixed - that’s about it.

For those not like me and do posts like this (’mongst friends), I’d prefer to hear that my new gun broke (even something about what broke), gun was returned to factory on a prepaid label, gun was repaired and returned in xx weeks, all is well now.

I will admit that the OP didn’t really do a whine about the gun breaking so soon - the so heartbroken and disappointed and never going to buy another CZ rant, etc. I was most taken with the whine about CZ customer service. Agree with some others regarding the CZ CS. If they willingly offer to do a free/warranty repair to include shipping, you’re home free and that’s good service (also providing gun comes back fixed). And, I don’t care if the CS rep burps, farts or picks his teeth with a metal tooth pick while I’m on the phone with him.

Titan308, best of luck on your P-07. Both of my CZs came back from the factory in excellent working condition and never failed again even after many thousands of rounds.

TITAN308

May 2, 2012, 10:54 AM

Usually I just stop paying attention to people when they magically change the description of "discussing" to "whining" on a whim just because they don't agree with the statement.

Exaggerations are lame.

Poster #1 "Yea this guy bumped my shoulder in the store and did not apologize."

Poster #2 "Jeez whats the big deal, did you want him to give you a hug?"

See how ridiculous that kind of stuff sounds? You might as well go get a job at FOX News being a reporter.

ClickClickD'oh

May 2, 2012, 11:56 AM

By the time everyone is done complaining about Titan, his P-07 will be back from CZ with a new trigger spring in it.

labhound

May 2, 2012, 01:37 PM

See how ridiculous that kind of stuff sounds? You might as well go get a job at FOX News being a reporter.

Well that certainly puts a new light on things! :rolleyes:

TennJed

May 3, 2012, 12:12 AM

You sweet on him or something?? The guy is WHINING! I mean, he is tattling on the CZ rep. Go to his boss and complain if you must. But, what are you trying to accomplish here on this forum?
It is always best to point out how someone is whining by whining yourself. If you see too much whining on message boards why not avoid them or at the very least do not contribute to the discussion. Posting on a topic that bothers you only bumps the topic back to the top and continues the discussion.

Or you can just whine about how too many people whine

Kiln

May 3, 2012, 03:33 AM

It is always best to point out how someone is whining by whining yourself. If you see too much whining on message boards why not avoid them or at the very least do not contribute to the discussion. Posting on a topic that bothers you only bumps the topic back to the top and continues the discussion.

Or you can just whine about how too many people whine
Thank you.

tercel89

May 3, 2012, 07:10 AM

TITAN308, I bought one of the new Duty P-07's when they came out . I usually dont buy a new gun right off the bat when they are still new . Mine was eating up it's own guide rod after just 100 rds. It wasnt eject full nor empty mags and my trigger too was not resetting at all. I sent it back to them and they sent me a whole new gun . Customer service was good but I understand your pain with what you went through. I agree with you. AS far as the pistol goes, I just dont think CZ has gotten the "polymer pistol" thing right just yet.
I understand that the customer service guy deals with unhappy custmers a lot of times, but that is his job and he should be careful of what he says and HOW HE SAYS IT . SO I agree with you. I dont think you should have had to lead the customer service like you did that is for sure. He should have had the sense to say how sorry the company is for the problem and all and that they would make it right.
That is my $.02
Let me know how it turned out and if they fix it or get you a new gun .

Walt Sherrill

May 3, 2012, 08:08 AM

Or you can just whine about how too many people whine

And, your response is different in some profound way? It would appear that we're all GUILTY.

Walt Sherrill

May 3, 2012, 08:34 AM

I understand that the customer service guy deals with unhappy custmers a lot of times, but that is his job and he should be careful of what he says and HOW HE SAYS IT . SO I agree with you. I dont think you should have had to lead the customer service like you did that is for sure.

Over the years, I've called Customer Service at Ruger, Kel-Tec, CZ, S&W, SIGARMS, Taurus, and Beretta. I don't think I've EVER had anyone at one of those firms apologize for their weapon's failure. All of them very quickly determined what needed to be done and took steps to get it carried out. If I had a technical question, SIG and S&W seemed to have the best technical people on the phones. S&W was particularly impressive.

I've had to call for warranty work on a Lexus, a Toyota, for a number of high-end electronic devices, and a couple of computers. Again, I don't think I ever heard an apology. (The Lexus dealers seem to bend over backwards to make Lexus owners feel good about interaction with the Lexus organization. That interaction always seems to have a relatively high cost -- like oil changes that are roughly twice as much as the same service from a Toyota dealer.

I think most companies AVOID APOLOGIES, as a matter of policy, because an apology seems to suggest the company's willingness to assume some larger responsibility.

I have had some company representatives express empathy or sympathy for the difficulties the problem might have caused me, showing that they understand that I have experienced a hardship because of the problem. That tends to defuse things, sometimes. That's what seemed to be missing in Titan's interaction with CZ.

Most of them, however, just get to the point -- assess the problem and explain what must be done to get things right. In the final analysis, that seems to do the job.

donato

May 3, 2012, 08:51 AM

Thank you.

Glad you feel all better now.

Pilot

May 3, 2012, 08:53 AM

I've had one interaction with CZ-USA Customer Service. My 11 year old Kadet Kit, .22LR conversion unit was having light strikes. It is something I just put up with over the years as it didn't happen that often, but started to happen a bit more so I finally figured I'd do something about it as I liked shooting it so much.

I called CZ-USA, and explained the problem. The CS rep sounded young, and a bit "dead" inside, kind of monotone, with little personality. He asked me the same questions twice. If I had replaced the main spring (hammer spring) on the 75B that was mostly the host gun for my Kadet Kit. I replied both times, unequivically, NO. I totally understood where he was going with that question.

After a bit more discussion he said he was going to send me the new style firing pin (which I had read about), a new firing pin spring, and firing pin retainer plate. I offered to pay for the parts, and shipping. He said, don't worry about it. A few days later I got the parts in the mail and now the Kadet Kit runs perfectly.

I was/am a totally satisfied CZ customer.

TITAN308

May 3, 2012, 09:47 AM

So I had planned on emailing them tomorrow to inquire about turn around time (they've had it since last Friday).

What do you guys suggest? Just wait a few weeks before inquiring or go ahead and ask?

Also am I assuming when they finish they will have to send the pistol back to my local FFL and I will be on the hook for the transfer fee?

donato

May 3, 2012, 09:57 AM

Just call CZ again and ask if they will notify you when the repaired gun ships - so you can be looking for it. While on the phone you could ask whether they can give you a status report on the repair.

If you shipped the gun to CZ yourself (on a prepaid label), they will ship the gun directly back to you.

Sorry about the continuous edits. Some companies like Ruger will not notify you when the gun ships unless you ask them to. You really need to be able to track the shipment because you or someone needs to be home to sign for the package.

benzy2

May 3, 2012, 09:57 AM

If you want to email I wouldn't do it on a Friday. Not that a Friday is bad but if they require 24 hours turn around to answer emails (never emailed them so I don't know) I'd rather be looking for a response this week than wait the weekend. I would probably wait though overall, but it's much easier to say I'd wait to bug them when it's your firearm being repaired and not mine.

I also do not believe they have to ship to a dealer. I thought manufacturer to owner (or owner to manufacturer) was outside of the FFL to FFL rules and repair work could be shipped directly. I'm sure CZ would know about that so if you do email them I'd ask how they ship firearms back.

TITAN308

May 3, 2012, 10:00 AM

Oh I don't mind waiting over the weekend - I was expecting at least a 3-4 week (if not longer) turn around time.

I had heard something about manufacturers being able to ship directly to the owner, if that is true that would be awesome. Then again I am sure I would have to make sure someone is home as it will require a signature. Oh well, small price to pay. lol

Walt Sherrill

May 3, 2012, 11:14 AM

A gun manufacturer (which is also an FFL) can return the weapon to the gun owner after service without sending it via another FFL. This isn't a transfer, so a receiving FFL isn't required. (In a "transfer" the other FFL is required to assure compliance with state and federal laws controlling gun ownership changes.)

CZ just can't use the US Mail (which requires an FFL on the receiving end). Hopefully, it'll be returned to you, "adult signature required."

When you call or email them, how it will be returned is a good question to ask.

If they're like most gun makers, I would expect about 10-15 day turnaround time, maybe a bit longer. Some, like Glock and SIG can beat that. I've waited much, much longer with some gun makers -- but often due to parts not in stock.

.

tercel89

May 3, 2012, 11:47 AM

When my Crappy CZ P-07 was sent off , they replaced it with a new one and they sent it directly to me . I had to goto Fed Ex to pick it up. It was a whole new gun and even new serial number and all. CZ was really nice about that . Especially since it was a whole new gun with a different serial number . I just took it and traded it in for a new S.A. XD9SC . I just couldnt trust a gun that was so new that had already eaten up it's own guide rod , would not reset it's trigger and would not eject mags full or empty. Now I am a big CZ fan , but I just dont think CZ has gotten their polymer pistols perfected yet.

Kiln

May 3, 2012, 04:16 PM

larryh1108

May 3, 2012, 04:57 PM

Kiln, donato turned into a decent poster the last few times. He isn't worth of being ignored yet, imo. He admitted that he had no friends and doesn't want any earlier. Maybe he has issues with bonding with a new crowd? Reread his last 2 helpful posts. He's actually a good guy!

TITAN308

May 3, 2012, 05:05 PM

Well isn't that a bit ironic when concerning the thread subject...

lol

gunnysmith

May 3, 2012, 05:22 PM

This video has been removed by the user.

Sorry about that.

ctaylor

May 3, 2012, 05:38 PM

I won't comment on whining, service reps, CZ reliability or the upcoming election. I think I will comment on gun forums:

I just "broked" a new sub compact (brand name not relevant). I let my brother shoot it, too. It misfired a couple of times while he was shooting it. His response:

"Wow, what a pain in the rear. What are you going to do now? You're not going to have to (gulp) return it to the factory are you?" (He was sympathetic and supportive.)

When I googled to see if there were similar problems with like pistols, I saw these responses to "my new XXXX is broken":

"You didn't break it in right."
"You're putting oil in the wrong places."
"You're using the wrong ammo."
"You limp wristed it."
"They have great customer service, quit whining, send it back and they'll make it right."
"I have a dozen of them and they're all flawless."
"You should have examined the gun better before you bought it."

There's a great lesson in life here:

If you want somebody to sympathize with you, go tell your brother. If you complain about a specific model on a gun forum, be prepared to hear from the brand loyal gang who feel like you are keying their car door in the mall parking lot.

TITAN308

May 3, 2012, 06:00 PM

And kicking puppies and punching babies.

CAUSE REAL MEN KICK PUPPIES AND PUNCH BABIES. YEA! RAWR!

lol

larryh1108

May 3, 2012, 06:02 PM

Actually, that is a good point.

Some people come here for a sympathetic ear, no more, no less.
Some come here because they are p!ssed and want others to be p!ssed too.
Some come here to share information others may find helpful.
Some come here to try to figure out what happened so they understand how their gun works.
Others come here to see if others have a similar issue and what did they did so they don't have to send it back.
And others come here because they are lonely and are cranky and are know-it-alls who only want to rain on other's parades.
These forums are filled with professionals who work on guns for a living and patiently answer questions for people without attitudes. There are other professionals who also share their time and information that may be relevent to the discussion on other aspects of guns (metals, finishes, grips, physics, etc).
The bottom line is we all come here for different reasons. I come to hear the experiences of others who are not paid by anyone so their information is not biased. Yes, we have fanboys and brand bashers but if you read between the lines you can learn an awful lot about your guns here.

royaluno

May 3, 2012, 06:32 PM

Titan that was Funny!

meanmrmustard

May 3, 2012, 07:04 PM

I'll add my two cents. I've used CS twice, and only twice.

One was a Sigma, went in for a sear polish to lighten THAT trigger (y'all know what I'm talking about). They paid for shipping, did the work for free, and apologized that it took 10 days round trip.

Second was Beemiller. I disassembled my Hp995 carbine, and something hiccuped with LRHO. They paid shipping, fixed it within a week, apologized for my inconvenience.

These are two low shelf firearms, and I got treated like royalty while the manufacturers either did uneccesary mods or fixed my miff up

Titan, this leads me to my point : Start buying Sigmas and Hi Points if you want Mommy to wipe your a*@ for you. Send me the CZ. ;)

labhound

May 3, 2012, 07:13 PM

There's a lesson here, "Even ugly women need love"!!!

donato

May 3, 2012, 07:19 PM

donato

May 3, 2012, 07:25 PM

Donato,

I have always told myself that everyone has a right to an opinion, even those that I strictly disagree with. After reviewing your posts though and determining that you're incapable of posting anything other than childish BS, I've decided that you'll never have anything to say that I care to hear.

I've been surfing the web for 6 years and have yet to ignore anyone ever. Congrats on being the one guy I've ever ignored.

Sincerely,
Kiln

Actually, the only childish bullcrap in this thread is that which you and TITAN308 are posting. If you can't see that, you need help. And if you have only been surfing the web for six years, you ain't even dry behind the ears yet. :D

RugerOldArmy

May 3, 2012, 07:30 PM

I've been away from this forum for a while, but reading. I wanted to note, I still like Walt S.'s posts. Same guy, good stuff. Kudos Walt.

I liked, and support, a few of the points made:

- Based on past experience, I'm confident CZ will make this right.

- Expect little empathy from others, especially on the internet.

Further:

- Expect no company to 'apologize', especially at the lower levels of the organization. An apology is an admission of fault, and this is a lawsuit crazy world. Lawyers dictate some policies.

- A customer support rep's spirit and aspirations are likely bigger than his current job. If you can give a little empathy, they might be deserving, and on receipt of this, they might go the extra mile in taking care of you, beyond policy.

- Training a customer service rep to put the company's best foot forward, and managing that staff costs money. How much is that worth to you in the price of the gun? In this case, I expect they'll make it right. How much more in passed on costs would this be worth to you in the price of the gun? Any organization needs to consider this, and choose a point on the continuim. Maximum service may only be fiscally possible for larger ticket items.

- Stuff breaks. The responsibility is more on the person choosing to carry to ensure everything is up to snuff. The point was made it may be the only such tool called on to be a defensive weapon, putting the responsibility on the gunmaker. If such defense is critical, perhaps more such tools are needed. (This can justify new purchases! ;) )

- New products have issues. Expect that. Remember Sig's first (or recent re-entry) 1911's? I don't think there is reason to expect that CZ's poly stuff is up to the same level as their traditional old school rifles and pistols. Further, some of their products came via aquisitions and partnerships: I'm unsure if their Huglu Shotguns have the QA/QC expected from their old school manufacturing. So, 'buyer beware' on the new stuff.

I'm in, for the ending, and am confident in this case, that the warranty will be honored to reasonable expectations.

Play nice now.

larryh1108

May 3, 2012, 08:01 PM

They still make pencils??

RugerOldArmy

May 3, 2012, 08:04 PM

They still make pencils??

Yes. I'm bummed they make more of them in China. Time to fix that. We made 'em better!

TITAN308

May 3, 2012, 08:22 PM

Actually, the only childish bullcrap in this thread is that which you and TITAN308 are posting.

Wow thanks for that random bash.

Stay classy.

meanmrmustard

May 3, 2012, 08:40 PM

You sweet on him or something?? The guy is WHINING! I mean, he is tattling on the CZ rep. Go to his boss and complain if you must. But, what are you trying to accomplish here on this forum?
I rarely question the decorum of fellow members of THR, but let's call a duck a duck.

I risk an infraction issuing this, but you sir are low, adding no beneficial information pertaining to the subject at hand and insulting others at random. I will not object that there has indeed been whining, subjective criticism, and one sided arguments aplenty on this thread.

I've read nothing posted by you that is in any way helpful, informative, or even witty in the slightest. This being said, you will NOT make any friends, you CANNOT be expected to spew venom here and not be called out for it, and if you indeed are not attached to forums, maybe you should get steppin'. You are no friend of mine, and I implore you to never post on a thread I start, or moderators will be WHINED to, in order for removal. Good day, sir.

7mmb

May 3, 2012, 10:50 PM

TITAN308

May 3, 2012, 10:56 PM

7mmb I fail to see the irony as CZ-USA is a business in the US which has US workers.

7mmb

May 4, 2012, 12:05 AM

7mmb I fail to see the irony as CZ-USA is a business in the US which has US workers.

Sorry, Titan, I just found it ironic someone would bemoan the loss of American jobs in a post about a pistol that was made in the Czech Republic. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I own four Italian made pistols. And I am a technician at a Toyota dealer so I am well aware of foreign made products supporting American jobs. I just found it ironic to complain about American jobs lost when discussing a foreign made product.

I just read through the whole thread and am probably one of the few guys that can sympathize with you. I had a bad experience with Ruger's customer service and posted about it on Ruger Forum and got blasted! And I wasn't even upset about the lame telephone experience like you were (not that there's anything wrong with being upset about lame telephone experiences.) I wasn't even upset that they weren't going to fix the gun so it wouldn't scrape the finish off of itself when fired. I wasn't even upset that they weren't going to unjam the rear sight so I could adjust it for windage. I was upset that after I had received the gun back unrepaired the first time (after having shipped it to Davidson's who then sent it to them) I called them and explained the problem and they told me to send it back to them. Ok, fine, I'll give you another shot at fixing it. After they got it back they sent me a bill saying they wanted $65 to send it back to me, unrepaired, because they don't think there is anything wrong with it! If you weren't going to fix it why tell me to send it back to you and then charge me to have it returned unrepaired!?!? Moral of the story is, internet gun forums aren't always the best place to vent your frustrations. I finally got the gun back no charge after much frustrating phone conversations with the head of Ruger's CR. I then promptly sent it back to Davidson's who sent me a brand new gun, because the Ruger was bought through Davidson's and had their guarantee. Now they have outstanding customer service! (Always, always, always buy through Davidson's if you can.) I got rid of the gun in question and also sold my Ruger 9mm and traded up to Witness Elite Matches. I'm sure you'll have a better outcome with your CZ CR experience than I had with my Ruger CR experience. Good luck Titan.

Walt Sherrill

May 4, 2012, 07:52 AM

I then promptly sent it back to Davidson's who sent me a brand new gun, because the Ruger was bought through Davidson's and had their guarantee. Now they have outstanding customer service!

Yeah, but did they APOLOGIZE for selling you a crappy gun? <grin>

I've had a problem or two with Ruger, myself, now that I think about it. They lost a bolt for a Ruger .22 Government model, claiming it never arrived. Luckily, I had the UPS receipt which showed a person signed for it. That took a bit longer than I expected.

I've had a few other so/so experiences with Ruger, too, so I guess my previously stated "positive" feelings about Ruger ought to be tempered, somewhat.

In the final analysis, talking about guns is a bit like talking about religious beliefs -- you question the true believer at your own risk.

ku4hx

May 4, 2012, 08:15 AM

Wow. And here I was thinking referring to myself as an old fart was possibly politically incorrect. Entertainment is where you find it.

7mmb

May 4, 2012, 02:07 PM

Yeah, but did they APOLOGIZE for selling you a crappy gun? <grin>

Actually, come to think about it, they did apologize, which was nice. What was even better, though, was exceeding my expectations and giving me a brand new gun! I wasn't even charged shipping, which was also unexpected. All I really wanted was for a good gun to be made even better. Ruger didn't follow through but Davidson's sure did. Two of my last four purchases were through them. Of the two I didn't buy from them one was out of stock and one they didn't sell. All were purchased through Impact Guns' SLC, UT store, which also guarantees the guns they sell. Along with the manufacturer's warranty I think I'm covered. If I can I will always buy through Davidson's. Great company, fast delivery, no surprises on the price and truly a no BS warranty.

TITAN308

May 4, 2012, 04:44 PM

Ok so her we go (maybe CZ-USA does have a sense of humor?)

(9:11AM)

From: xxx@comcast.net [mailto:xxx@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 9:11 AM
To: warranty
Subject: RE: Brand New P-07 Broken after less than 100 rounds.

Good morning. I just wanted to make a quick inquiry on what your estimate is on turn around for this repair and shipping. I failed to ask on the initial conversation and just wanted to get an idea what time frame roughly I am looking at.

Have a good weekend,

xxx

----- Original Message -----
From: warranty <warranty@cz-usa.com>
To: xxx@comcast.net
Sent: Fri, 04 May 2012 18:51:38 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: RE: Brand New P-07 Broken after less than 100 rounds.

xxx,

Turnaround time is about 4 to 6 weeks from when its received here.

Thanks,

xxx CZ-USA GUNSMITH

1-800-955-4486 x 336

CZ-USA

3327 N 7th ST TRFY
Kansas City, KS 66115

From: xxx@comcast.net [mailto:xxx@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 4:25 PM
To: warranty
Subject: RE: Brand New P-07 Broken after less than 100 rounds.

You must be messing with me :)

I just got an email from Fedex that its shipping back out.

Can I inquire as to what the problem is? I looked online and it appears that I had a somewhat older serial number and most people reported just receiving a brand new pistol. I'm just curious if mine was repaired or just outright replaced due to an early production problem.

Thanks for any info,

- xxx

(4:32PM)

This tracking update has been requested by:

Company Name: CZ-USA
Name: CZ-USA
E-mail: 'not provided by requestor'

CZ-USA of CZ-USA sent xxxx 1 FedEx 2Day package(s).

This shipment is scheduled to be sent on 05/04/2012.

Reference information includes:

Purchase order number: IN0152005
Reference: ORD065333
Special handling/Services: Adult Signature Required
Deliver Weekday
Status: Shipment information sent to FedEx

Tracking number: xxx

Based on the quoted time and it shipping in just a week; I am guessing the pistol was just out right replaced.

Could be wrong, just a guess.

RugerOldArmy

May 4, 2012, 06:04 PM

It was probably a generic response, to manage your expectations, without the time spent looking up the specific request to the specific return.

So, if it comes in fixed or replaced, (in a week?), would you be disappointed?

TITAN308

May 4, 2012, 06:20 PM

So, if it comes in fixed or replaced, (in a week?), would you be disappointed?

Why would I be disappointed?

meanmrmustard

May 4, 2012, 06:22 PM

Why would I be disappointed?
...that they still didn't say that they were sorry? If CZ sent it back in tip top shape without the regards, would you still be pissed?

RugerOldArmy

May 4, 2012, 06:40 PM

So, if it comes in fixed or replaced, (in a week?), would you be disappointed?

Why would I be disappointed?

It seemed your interaction with the customer service rep left you disappointed earlier. In one of my previous posts, I noted that training and staffing customer service reps has a cost that would likely need to be passed on to the consumer, and reflected in a higher cost of the product. The P07 serves the low-end (price wise) of the market, so you may be sensitive to cost. A company needs to choose just how much is invested in such service, and I was curious if, at the end of this, you would think they chose well.

It seems a fair question.

TITAN308

May 4, 2012, 06:45 PM

Your asking me about two unrelated things. The level at which they have customer service and then if I would be disappointed to get a repaired or new gun returned to me?

Does that mean I could possibly be happy about not getting a repaired or new gun returned to me? /confused

Also I seriously doubt that the conversation with the original CS rep would have gone any different if I was reporting the most high dollar gun they have had broken in less than 100 rounds. So the whole argument there is invalid.

If its true that is even more crappy company policy. That would suggest your level of customer service is based on your wallet. Can't recall that policy ever working out for any company of importance.

RugerOldArmy

May 4, 2012, 06:59 PM

Consider the reference earlier to Lexus customer service. You pay a little extra, but I hear they really take care of you. They bought lunch for a friend of mine, as an example.

It was a simple, polite, genuine question. One of the teams that reports to me does customer service, so I was curious what your overall opinion of the 'service experience' would be, if they fixed your problem?

Isn't that even more reasonable than the point you made about the company letting you down, perhaps endangering your life, given your expectation that a $496 list tool, might have been needed in your defense, at the time it suffered the mechanical breakdown?

However, I no longer expect a straight answer to a simple question. Even so, I hope things work out for you.

TITAN308

May 4, 2012, 09:24 PM

I never doubted they would take care of my gun. Regardless of their ability to honor a warranty the outcome doesn't change the fact that reporting an out of box failure triggered a "Meh...ok" attitude.

I mean if a gun failing gets them as excited as a pez dispenser failing, not sure if I can put in reliance in carrying/using one of their pistols. Its like they break all the time and its common place. Boy that sure instills some reputation right there.

Them repairing my gun, something they are OBLIGATED to do, is not going to warrant a "woohoo you guys rock!"

A "woohoo you guys rock!" would be them doing what they are obligated to do and showing some form (any) of concern that their product broke out the box.

Edit: If someone was to ask me about CZ for my own feedback I would tell them their warranty work gets honored, but would I recommend one at this point? The answer would be no.

Sorry I don't have a simple answer for you because its really two answers to your one question.

Warranty work? Spot On.

Recommend them? No.

They don't get an A+ for doing their obligation, they get just a regular A.

Pilot

May 4, 2012, 09:37 PM

I would not let the verbal reaction of one employee on one phone conversation sway me about a product, especially when the product has an excellent track record for doing its job very reliably.

TITAN308

May 4, 2012, 09:45 PM

Why not? That is the only interaction really I have to go on.

People use to put a lot of emphasis on first impressions.

Companies and customers. Employees and Job Interviews. Etc. Etc.

I *hope* I am not talking to CZ more than once. :)

KTXdm9

May 4, 2012, 10:19 PM

Wow, this turned into a a multi-forum pissing match. Quite impressive.

My guess would be that most companies train their employees not to apologize. We are a litigious society, after all. Do post up when your shipment arrives. I'm curious to see how all of it turns out for you.

WardenWolf

May 4, 2012, 10:54 PM

Titan308:

You know, you really should be more tolerant of CSR reps. Some of them are new, and some of them have problems of their own. The person said flat out they would fix it, and that it is under warranty. And said they would send you a shipping label when asked. That is excellent customer service, and all you can ask for.

As for the individual, what you described is one of the primary hallmarks of Asperger's or mild autism. Monotone voice and inability to make small talk or easily empathize, along with general social awkwardness. Speaking from personal experience, a person like that has an immensely hard time dealing with phones and phone support, and probably is only doing that job because they're desperate and need money.

When it boils down to it, *you* are the one who needs a dose of empathy.

donato

May 4, 2012, 11:10 PM

After going back over much of this thread, I realize that there is a side in this story that for the most part is getting shortchanged - the good CZ customer service. This whole thing is essentially about one individuals experience. So, I'll tell you about mine - I've had two (for broken guns) over about the last six years. These were very positive experiences: cs reps were polite, professional and not "MEH" (to reuse an already often used phrase). The most memorable experience that I had was the first. I actually got to speak with Mike Eagleshield. I've also ordered some parts over the years, and again, very positive experiences here too. Can't recall ever running into the "MEH" guy on any of my interfaces with CZ customer service. They did send me a "wrong" part once; but, they immediately sent me the correct one free of charge. So much time has elapsed now that I really don't remember if they ever apologized at any time.

So, there is a "good" tattle about CZ customer service.

TITAN308

May 4, 2012, 11:24 PM

That is excellent customer service, and all you can ask for.

Speak for yourself, not others. Doing whats obligated does not make for good customer service.

When it boils down to it, *you* are the one who needs a dose of empathy.

Uh, no.

We can play the, "Well maybe he has one eye and his parents were killed by wolves and his car blew out all 4 tires today" all day long. That is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

On the flip side; Maybe my gun failed while I was working security and because of that a bad guy stabbed me in the gonads and now I cant reproduce. Can I at least get a "sorry you got stabbed in the sack" from the company?

Donato I never claimed my experience was the be all, end all of CZ reps. This thread is about my experience and if people ask me about CZ in the future I will tell them about my experience truthfully; that my warranty work was honored and turn around time was very quick - but that their employee seemed indifferent to the fact that a pistol (not a pez dispenser) broke right out the box. I imagine the conversation would start with, "There are a lot of good CZ comments out there, but my personal experience is..."

The point being his job is to interact with customers, if hes not ideal for the position, put him somewhere else. I bet the conversation would be different if instead of asperger it was torrets and he was just randomly dropping F-bombs in the conversation. Then all of a sudden you be like, "Damn what the hell is that company thinking?"

If you want an A rating then just do what your obligated to do. If you want A+ then care about what you are obligated to do.

How this seems to be a foreign idea to people is beyond me and I stopped trying to understand it many many posts ago.

larryh1108

May 5, 2012, 07:07 AM

I guess it boils down to what you expect from a company's CS.
Me? I want it fixed right on the first try with no extra BS or drama.
I don't want to spend any more money in shipping or anything else.
I don't want a rude or smart alec CS rep.
It breaks, they fix it free, we're good.

Others want a little more, as posted here. Right or wrong, it's his right to expect something different. However, in my eyes, an A rating for their CS is still good. As the OP stated it means they did what they are obligated to do. That works for me.

Walt Sherrill

May 5, 2012, 08:20 AM

Donato I never claimed my experience was the be all, end all of CZ reps. This thread is about my experience and if people ask me about CZ in the future I will tell them about my experience truthfully; that my warranty work was honored and turn around time was very quick - but that their employee seemed indifferent to the fact that a pistol (not a pez dispenser) broke right out the box. I imagine the conversation would start with, "There are a lot of good CZ comments out there, but my personal experience is..."

I asked this before, and you didn't respond: would you have felt better had the gun broken after 500 rounds, rather than during the first time you used it? It might have been in a carry rotation, then.

Have any of your other weapons ever broken or had a malfunction that kept them from operating as designed?

In the final analysis, your whole argument isn't really about customer service, but about communications and expectations. You seem to expect more than most when it comes to communications with a company. You are free to have those "greater" expectations.

My worst experiences with gun failures were 1) a firing pin that broke in a Beretta Tomcat, after many hundreds of rounds, and 2) a barrel that cracked in the chamber area of a Witness Sport Long Slide (.45).

The Tomcat problem was a complete failure and loss of function. The second, the Long Slide, I found only by accident, after stripping the gun when I found residue in the chamber area that I couldn't explain. In the second case, the gun SEEMED to function properly. More rounds fired might have been ugly -- I'm not sure.

It took Beretta four months to repair their gun. It was one of the early Tomcats, and they didn't have the needed parts. Communicating with them was like communicating with a machine -- far from personal.

In the case of the Long Slide, it was a used gun, and I just bought a new barrel. I also later had the Supersight break, through no fault on my part. I just bought a new sight -- both incidents were expensive. There was no way EAA would have done ANYTHING about either of those problems -- I wonder if they would have done anything had I bought it used, as I have heard and read a lot of horror stories in that regard. (I only shoot standard power factory ammo.)

I didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling from interacting with Beretta, but I did get a repaired weapon -- which failed again, later, for different reasons. The early Tomcats had problems. I got it fixed and swore off Tomcats. I later traded the Longslide away, but there was nothing wrong with it -- I was just ready for something different and I wasn't a big fan of .45s a few years back. Have a great SIG 220 Super Match, now, and have warmed to the caliber a bit.

Guns do break. Breaking the first time out is quite unusual.

What about the other guns you bought with that "big" purchase? Any word on them?

meanmrmustard

May 5, 2012, 08:37 AM

^ Agreed. Not that I'm going to cipher what ya mean, Walt, but if the manufacturer does there job polishing what may be a turd to begin with, then does that mean CS has done any less than their job?

In my earlier post, I mentioned two instances where i used CS. Both were used, and I made CS aware of that. I did this politely, even though the guns were bust. No begging, just a polite attitude and an adult tone. They fixed both for free, no shipping cost to boot.

Take this for what it is, Titan. Maybe I missed where any one asked, or you voluntarily posted, about how you spoke with the CSR. It's action and reaction: You may blather on venomously with anger or sarcasm in your tone, likely doing one of two things. One, you may literally submit the CSR into doing what you want out of pure wariness of speaking with you. Second, you may have just PO'd the CSR, thus not getting your sought after sympathy. They are human, and have emotions same as you or I. Bruise them with a bad attitude, especially since they deal with many calls a day I'm sure, you're not going to get "I'm sorry", you're going to get them thinking "Get bent". I've read here where you are very passionate about this subject, so much so that you're getting a little vehement. That's the only reason I ask. :)

Walt Sherrill

May 5, 2012, 08:50 AM

... Not that I'm going to cipher what ya mean, Walt, but if the manufacturer does there job polishing what may be a turd to begin with, then does that mean CS has done any less than their job?

And, on a lighter note, even a coprolite (fossilized turd) can have great value. <grin>

Peace.

meanmrmustard

May 5, 2012, 09:32 AM

And, on a lighter note, even a coprolite (fossilized turd) can have great value. <grin>

Peace.

Only because it is highly sought after and rarity! :neener:

Walt Sherrill

May 5, 2012, 09:40 AM

Yes. I had to give you a shot. <grin>

And, we can agree NOT to compare the CZ Commemorative to a coprolite. The CZ-100, on the other hand...

(I had two of them, or was it three? In any event, had CZ-USA imported the CZ-110, which was the CZ-100 with a more conventional DA/SA action, it might've caught on. But getting it through the US "import" point system was apparently too difficult.)

meanmrmustard

May 5, 2012, 10:18 AM

Walt Sherrill

May 5, 2012, 10:40 AM

Here the point system that controls handgun imports. It's intended to make the import of "Saturday Night Specials" very difficult.

Length: for each 1/4" over 6" - 1

Forged steel frame - 15

Forged HTS alloy frame - 20

Unloaded weight w/mag (per oz.) - 1

.22 short and .25 auto - 0

.22 LR and 7.65mm to .380 auto - 3

9mm parabellum and over - 10

Locked breech mechanism - 5

Loaded chamber indicator - 5

Grip safety - 3

Magazine safety - 5

Firing pin block or lock - 10

External hammer - 2

Double action - 10

Drift adjustable target sight - 5

Click adjustable target sight - 10

Target grips - 5

Target trigger - 2

With the CZ-85 Combat, the lack of a firing pin block was offset by the addition of a click-adjustable rear sight. The CZ-110 apparently had some features that didn't add up to the required 75 points. (Other CZ .22s also didn't make the grade; .22s are a hard gun to get past the import restrictions.)

RugerOldArmy

May 5, 2012, 11:19 AM

In my earlier post, I mentioned two instances where i used CS. Both were used, and I made CS aware of that. I did this politely, even though the guns were bust. No begging, just a polite attitude and an adult tone. They fixed both for free, no shipping cost to boot.

Which brings up an element of this thread's customer service interaction that hasn't been brought up. I'll leave this as a purely rhetorical question:

- Could the 'Meh' attitude of the customer service rep have been a response to the tone or words used by the OP?

It seems plausible, based on this OPs replies to my polite question regarding what he would think if they resolve the issue with a fixed or new gun in a week. It would be a plausible reaction to receiving a bit of attitude for someone with, perhaps, an 'axe to grind'. (Even the title of the thread is a bit shrill, no?)

I'd advise him to never, ever, show such an attitude towards fast food workers, before receiving his food!

meanmrmustard

May 5, 2012, 12:11 PM

Which brings up an element of this thread's customer service interaction that hasn't been brought up. I'll leave this as a purely rhetorical question:

- Could the 'Meh' attitude of the customer service rep have been a response to the tone or words used by the OP?

It seems plausible, based on this OPs replies to my polite question regarding what he would think if they resolve the issue with a fixed or new gun in a week. It would be a plausible reaction to receiving a bit of attitude for someone with, perhaps, an 'axe to grind'. (Even the title of the thread is a bit shrill, no?)

I'd advise him to never, ever, show such an attitude towards fast food workers, before receiving his food!
Exactly my point in post #176. You get what you pay for. Including respect. If you pay no respect to some one, it may be their job to do so, but don't expect sympathy. Or as Ruger said, you may get a loogie in your barrel!!!

TITAN308

May 5, 2012, 12:34 PM

TITAN308

May 5, 2012, 12:44 PM

Here are a few....

1. I am always polite to Customer Service. If it ever gets to the point I want to tell them to pound sand I would hang up.

Though there is some comical attachments to people debating what customer service is with someone who's job function is to provide said customer service (even as a technical analyst) to multimillion dollar clients.

I don't like the fake "we so sorry" every 15 seconds like anyone else. I would however expect at least one attempt to sound like "I care, even if its just slightly or next to none."

I'm assuming you did not bother to read all the details. Both myself and the rep were very "professional/mature", that wasn't the topic at hand.

RugerOldArmy

May 5, 2012, 12:54 PM

Ruger Ive posted multiple times that both myself and the CZ rep were professional and polite. Why you choose to ignore multiple clarifications on this is beyond me.

Whats worse it seems you are trying to to build animosity towards me based on your wild assumptions. Is there any particular reason you feel I have a reason to lie to everyone here?

Thats pretty low.

Titan, you've drawn conclusions here, and throughout this thread you've done so, in a manner in which you expect us to conclude you're correct.

Yet only your side of the story was presented. My personal opinion based on many years of experience is that the truth often lies somewhere between diverging opinions.

In this reply you're contention is that you were polite and professional. Yet even here, the tone, points, and manner of your reply seem to suggest otherwise.

Consider if you're in anyway accountable to how folks react to your attitude and position, and you may very well learn a valuable lesson that would benefit you a great deal over the course of your life.

You suggest I have an agenda, but expect us to conclude you do not. How well do you think that is working?

TITAN308

May 5, 2012, 01:08 PM

I'm glad you have the ability to deduce tone from text on a screen.

I've been pretty lax about your insinuations so far, but if you feel the need to think I am lying or bending reality then keep it to yourself. By interjecting you lack of trust into the thread you are corrupting opinions that might otherwise be formed on their own.

I even put this in the original post about the phone call;

I know a lot of people like to embellish these conversations, but this is how it went as best I can remember:

Meaning from the get go we have all acknowledged a lot of stories on the internet that were lopsided.

Consider if you're in anyway accountable to how folks react to your attitude and position, and you may very well learn a valuable lesson that would benefit you a great deal over the course of your life.

Don't talk to me like I am your kid because I'm not. I might suggest to you that you take the tin foil hat off and take a break from the internet if we are giving sugestions based on replies.

I posted on a gun forum about my gun experience with a gun manufacturer and it is my opinion and mine alone. I never said anything was based in fact unless it happened within the context of MY experience. Its becoming clearer that you are acting as a CZ fanboy on their behalf and are failing to remain neutral on the matter.

You suggest I have an agenda, but expect us to conclude you do not. How well do you think that is working?

You are acting like Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson, you are playing up emotions based on your own assumptions. Good job.

As far as my agenda? I'll repeat myself because it seems nothing sinks in the first go around:

I posted on a gun forum about my gun experience with a gun manufacturer and it is my opinion and mine alone. I never said anything was based in fact unless it happened within the context of MY experience. Its becoming clearer that you are acting as a CZ fanboy on their behalf and are failing to remain neutral on the matter.

Nothing you will say will make my experience with them a week ago different. Your words and imaginary situations dealing with tone will not change it. Your insistance that I am not being anything but forthright and truthful will not change that.

You'll have to forgive me if my "tone" has gone from one of conversation to defense. People generally don't take lightly to be accused of being a liar. I will respond accordingly. For someone who is trying to portray wisdom, I would have imagined YOU would have learned that life lesson a long time ago.

Its one thing to say your two cents "well there is two sides to every story", its a completely different thing to continually push that idea when you have nothing to back it. If you can't understand the difference between having an opinion and then using your opinion to discredit someone maybe you should take some time and go learn the difference.

RugerOldArmy

May 5, 2012, 01:22 PM

I'm glad you have the ability to deduce tone from text on a screen.

I've been pretty lax about your insinuations so far, but if you feel the need to think I am lying or bending reality then keep it to yourself. By interjecting you lack of trust into the thread you are corrupting opinions that might otherwise be formed on their own.

I even put this in the original post about the phone call;

Quote:
I know a lot of people like to embellish these conversations, but this is how it went as best I can remember:

Meaning from the get go we have all acknowledged a lot of stories on the internet that were lopsided.

Quote:
Consider if you're in anyway accountable to how folks react to your attitude and position, and you may very well learn a valuable lesson that would benefit you a great deal over the course of your life.

Don't talk to me like I am your kid because I'm not. I might suggest to you that you take the tin foil hat off and take a break from the internet if we are giving sugestions based on replies.

I posted on a gun forum about my gun experience with a gun manufacturer and it is my opinion and mine alone. I never said anything was based in fact unless it happened within the context of MY experience. Its becoming clearer that you are acting as a CZ fanboy on their behalf and are failing to remain neutral on the matter.

Quote:
You suggest I have an agenda, but expect us to conclude you do not. How well do you think that is working?

You are acting like Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson, you are playing up emotions based on your own assumptions. Good job.

As far as my agenda? I'll repeat myself because it seems nothing sinks in the first go around:

I posted on a gun forum about my gun experience with a gun manufacturer and it is my opinion and mine alone. I never said anything was based in fact unless it happened within the context of MY experience. Its becoming clearer that you are acting as a CZ fanboy on their behalf and are failing to remain neutral on the matter.

Nothing you will say will make my experience with them a week ago different. Your words and imaginary situations dealing with tone will not change it. Your insistance that I am not being anything but forthright and truthful will not change that.

You'll have to forgive me if my "tone" has gone from one of conversation to defense. People generally don't take lightly to be accused of being a liar. I will respond accordingly. For someone who is trying to portray wisdom, I would have imagined YOU would have learned that life lesson a long time ago.

Its one thing to say your two cents "well there is two sides to every story", its a completely different thing to continually push that idea when you have nothing to back it. If you can't understand the difference between having an opinion and then using your opinion to discredit someone maybe you should take some time and go learn the difference.

I don't think this was needed to make my point. You can read it and consider if it did.

Alas, further replies don't seem worth the investment of my time.

TITAN308

May 5, 2012, 01:34 PM

http://i28.servimg.com/u/f28/15/98/81/31/612cap10.jpg

RugerOldArmy

May 5, 2012, 01:51 PM

Ahhh! A picture of Curly Bill! (I even remember that scene. Barring the sappy love story, that was a good movie. The Doc Holiday character was great.)

There must have been a point...but I can't figure it out. Curly, by contrast was a worthy adversary. He had the courage to be rude face to face. And in the end his fate was...see it makes little sense.

Respect is earned...sometimes.

I remember eating dinner with a couple, a friend and his current girlfriend, on a cruise ship. His new girlfriend was very rude to the waitress, who had a butterfly tatto on the small of her back, it was painful to watch. My GF, my friend, and I were taken back by her ego and immaturity. When they arrived home from the trip, he had his film developed. Curiously, a picture he didn't remember taking was present. It took a bit to figure out, not knowing the context either. It was a woman's rear end, with a PINK toothbrush sticking out of her ****.

In the small of the toothbrush carrying woman's back was a butterfly tattoo.

I expect you're aspiring to such Karma. Good luck with that.

Hmmmm, maybe this IS worth some of my time.

I hope you enjoy the story of that picture too!