[ping]

I shot up some new privi partizan ammo for my new acquired french mas model 36. so i decided to go ahead and get my dies and reload these. I bought rcbs and i have always had good luck with them. the die i have is a full length die. i wanted just a neck size one but they happened to be out at the time so i just bought the full length.

well i lubed my first cartridge and it seemed a little tight so i decided to lub it pretty good. well it is stuck and good. i know i did not over lube. i am using hot shot just like i do on all my other many dies.

i have sent it to rcbs for a review of what the problem might be. when i put it in the first time it was real tight and i had barely started the resize. just real disturbing. i actually got another cartridge for my second try. waiting to see what rcbs says. it is like the dies are wrong ya know.

just wondering if anyone else has had this problem.

thanks

[rcmodel]

Did you clean the preservative oil out of the new dies before using them?

Did you allow the spray lube to dry 15 minutes or so to give the solvent time to evaporate off the cases?

rc

[jcwit]

Another case of the quick spray lube trick.

Shuda used Unique or something similar.

[ping]

I did not know you had to clean rcbs dies. wow, I currently use probably 9 rcbs brand new now and have never had a problem. i did spray them and then went right to the die with it. i did not let it dry. it was plenty lubed.

and the "shuda"comment i dont understand. i have been using spray both frankfort and hot shot for a while and have never ever had a problem.

thanks

[rcmodel]

it was plenty lubed.
I guess it wasn't, or it wouldn't have got stuck.

It is critical to allow time for the solvent to evaporate with any spray lube.
Seems to be even more so with One-Shot then others.

rc

[jcwit]

and the "shuda"comment i dont understand. i have been using spray both frankfort and hot shot for a while and have never ever had a problem.



Do a search here about all the threads and posts of folks having stuck cases using spray lubes.

You state you've been using hot shot for a while, how long is a while? Not that I know everything, but I have been reloading since the 1960's, and do have some experience.

Stating that you've never had a problem, just means "yet".

I do use spray lube for straight walled pistol cases and carbide dies just to make life easier, but for bottleneck rifle cases Unique or Mink Oil is the way to go. IMO of course.

[Galil5.56]

Ping,

Although I hate hot-shot, there may be more at play. 7.5x54 MAS, like other less familiar metric calibers, seems to have pretty widely used specs as to what makes for a good sizer. I have seen several case dimension specs for the caliber that have enough difference, that using the smaller spec causes very severe over-sizing/effort with properly lubed cases. I had a Lee 7.5x54 MAS sizer that right off the bat, knew something was very wrong in use. It did what you describe as sizing seeming to start very soon upon case entry, and the base of the case had what looked like a magnum "belt" formed after sizing. I sent it back to Lee with two sized, one unfired, and a fired case to verify my claim. Very quickly I received a new die, and a competently written letter explaining the particulars of what was done. The die was cut wrong (Lee said so in the return letter) and while their spec sheet said shoulder diameter was to be .445" post sizing, my die was doing .440-441" as I measured before return and said in my return letter.

This .445" shoulder dimension was what one of my charts and Lee's manual showed, while Cartridges of the World says .441"... Seems this round is acting like 7.5x55 Swiss, in that most die makers use a very small spec for the sizer (greatly over works the case), while Redding went with a bit larger spec, and why I bought them for my K-31. Glad my RCBS 7.7 Japanese dies seem to have been cut to work out well in my Type 99. One thing RCBS will need are some fired cases to see how much expansion is going on, to see if perhaps you have a slightly large chamber and adjust from there. I'm sure RCBS will make everything A-OK, and soon you will be back in business. FWIW, I have 1940 made MAS 36, and a MAS 49/56 auto loader, and luckily both chambers seemingly are within the spec sheet I have.

P.S., max pressures are another thing all over the map with this round as seen on the internet. many times you will see 40k psi as listed, CIP as I recall says around 3500 bar/50,750 psi, while my chart says 3300 bar/47,850 psi. Not that prudent work-up and published data should be ignored, but as you have seen that MAS 36 is massively hell for stout, and even with the lugs located where they are is a damn strong, extremely well built/machined, classically French over-built rifle... I say this in a good way, and generally really like French service rifles a great deal. Good luck!

[ping]

galil5.56 - great info. i think what you are saying is correct for sure. i did include several of my fire formed cartridges with my die and its stuck component. I think you are right that i bet that die is not correct. it will be interesting to see what they come back with it. I am in florida and had to ship it clear to california. it cost a little bit but i want to know ya know. never have had a problem with their dies. I did order some more brass from Graff which are PPU. same as i am shooting. was really excited about the reload until i got the first one stuck. shessssh.

It is a solid rifle for sure. Just feels heavy duty ya know. It shot real well as to elevation. was shooting at 200 yards. only problem was the windage. It is shooting way to the right about 15 inches at the 200 yard mark. if i hold to the left i can ge all shots in the 9 and 10 ring of an SR target. Now that was with commercial ammo privi partizan. i believe it was 139 gr. i am going to try 168 hpbt from sierra when i get my dies back. going to use IMR4895. The load data like you said is all over the place. i am seeing 42 to 44 gr though. will start low and go up.

good info on the hot shot guys. i have been using frankfort spray and just started using the hot shot about a year ago and have been ok. I have only loaded for about 10 years so i am always open to learn for sure.

so is everyone recommending not to use spray and roll them?

I am hard headed so just want to know. was paratrooper with the 101st Airborne so probably to many jumps :) so forgive me.

oh i hear to adjust windage you basically have to change out the rear site with one with the sight hole for left or right. I think it is drilled out slightly to one side or the other. Mine has an "N". believe that is the standard one. The rifle was made in 1939. Sure like it. i also have many of the other WW2 rifles and love shooting them and reloading.

Good info guys. keep me in the right direction.

[Galil5.56]

Ping,

Yeah, ease of windage change is a real PITA for the 36, and aside from no mechanical safety (for hunting use), the windage situation stinks. You are correct about swapping out the sight leaf (planchette sp?) for one that moves to the direction desired, and since the front sight is soldered/brazed in place, no dice drifting it. A French fella has posted a chart at one of the shooting sites showing what leaf may be needed, and hopefully you can find one that fixes the problem.

I've been tempted to mill in a slot on the leaf, fit it with a sliding apeture retained by set screws, and be done with it... Thank God my MAS 49/56 has GREAT fully adjustable sights! Good luck, and as for case lube, the Dillon alcohol/lanolin pump spray stuff has served me well for a very long time.

[mackg]

I seem to remember brass would come in two different head sizes, depending on who made it, and tool makers had to make a choice (reformed 6.5x55...?).

[kestak]

My advice, who came years ago from rcmodel:use imperial wax to lube your cases. I use exclusivelybthat product and I don't think I will ever go back to the spray lubes.

I handload 7.5 French and I did not run in any issue you ran or has been described here.

[Galil5.56]

I seem to remember brass would come in two different head sizes, depending on who made it, and tool makers had to make a choice (reformed 6.5x55...?).

Exactly what I was typing and thinking, and I see you added it this via edit. This would be especially bad if they used say US made 6.5x55 as their guide, with it's way too small head diameter from properly made (most euro) 6.5x55. Regardless, I'm glad Lee did the exchange, and it's not like it's a big secret...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/205248/lee-pacesetter-2-die-set-75x54mm-french-mas

The dies I had were miscut, Lee replaced them and it had nothing to do with the lube/amount used; maybe the RCBS are ill-cut by their standard, maybe not, and it will be interesting to see what they say.

[ping]

I am still waiting for an update from rcbs. my dies got there monday so i think i will call them now. i am very interested for sure. yeh, i have heard using the 6.5x55 is not the way. appreciate all the info. will update soon. :)

[Certaindeaf]

I've heard that some guys "prime" the die when using One Shot and even other lubes.. meaning swab the die walls with a lightly lubed Q-tip and then proceed as normal.

[ping]

Ok - I just got off the phone with RCBS. Super helpful for sure. They removedthe stuck case of course. They then measured te case etc and found that my rifle has a slightly larger chamber and the die was having to resize much more. They cleaned the die out real good of which i did not do. they say they just use alcohol. they then open opened the die some to take into account my larger fireformed cartridges from this rifle. they then use 2 cartridges that i sent that were fired in that rifle but not sized and they sized perfectly. they are sending all back today.

i did ask about spray lube and they said that is what they use. i asked which one and funny thing it was "hot shot" and slick something? i was doing one thing wrong though i was not really letting it dry good. the slippery feeling you initially feel is the vehicle of which the lube uses to get it sprayed. i should have read better on the can. they told me the times they get stuck cases back is when someone has used sprays incorrectly and imperial wax lube.

also thanks on the guy talking about the windage info. i did find the site and need to figure out which one to get. its in french. shesssh.

so i should be getting my dies back probably next week. cool.

[Certaindeaf]

So what's the deal? Isn't Hot Shot a dry lube for presses and One Shot for cases? Maybe you're using the wrong stuff? Never know.

[Galil5.56]

Nice to hear ping; I'll be loading for my two Frenchies tonight or tomorrow :)

Although it may not be ideal for everyone, the lanolin and alcohol mixes either bought or made yourself, really, really work in my experience. Not sure what RCBS pad lube is today, but many years ago this super thick and clear goop smelled just like Lanolin, and perhaps super purified, straight lanolin is what they used? The RCBS spary is called "Case Slick"

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160333/rcbs-case-slick-spray-lube-4-oz-pump

I like the Lanolin Alcohol pump spray cause I can apply it with a light spray, and let "dry" for 5 mins to dry off the carrier, or saturate a lube pad with the stuff, allow to dry overnight and use as a roll on. I can tell you nothing I have used seems anywhere as slick as this stuff, I mean it is amazing how much it cuts out sizing effort. Good luck!

[jcwit]

they told me the times they get stuck cases back is when someone has used sprays incorrectly and imperial wax lube.

Being as they do not sell Imperial or even a product similar to it, that reply is understandable on their part.

Reloaders have been using Imperial, Mink Oil, and Lanolin for generations with no problems.

I am glad the problem was solved for you tho.

[ping]

I just had too look. i am using one shot so it is the case lube. had me worried for a minute. i will check out some of the other lubes. i need to expand my knowledge in this area for sure. thanks all for the good info.