[Plan2Live]

My question is, why is no one posting "let's wait and see" comments about the Shield?

Honest question here, not a hater thread, I am actually intrigued by the Shield. I have read many other posts about new pistols, like the Sig 938, where over half the posts say they are skeptical of first run pistols. But I am not seeing such comments about the Shield. Why?

[jon_in_wv]

I would say you haven't been looking. I've seen dozens. Check any thread about the Shield and you will see many interspersed with the inane arguments over the manual safety.

[Plan2Live]

Yes, I have seen dislikes for the manual saftey but I'm talking about the design in general. The Sig 938 is nothing more than a slight redesign of the 238 yet it is drawing a lot of skepticism with many posters saying they would never buy an early example of anything. I'm simply not seeing that with the Shield and am curious why. I would have expected 100% acceptance if it was a a single stack Glock but am surprised at the overwhelming acceptance of the Shield. And no, I'm not trying to encourage such, just asking why.

[crracer_712]

While most talk is from those that already have them, I do see a post or two within those threads from people that say they will wait and see after the intial batch gets some time on it.

[beatledog7]

I usually stay away from the first run of any new model of anything. But as for the manual safety? Sure.

If I were marketing a handgun specifically for concealed carry, given the current political climate, I would strongly consider adding a manual safety. It serves no practical purpose on a DAO firearm, but is seen as more "safe."

I would imagine many Shield buyers will never use it.

[basicblur]

I'd be much less inclined to wait out a model run on something like a gun than a car etc - a gun is much less expensive, much less complicated, and much easier/less hassle to correct should something need it.

Then ya gotta consider the manufacturer...I'd probably be much more inclined to buy a first run item from S&W than something like Keltec's KSG or some of the new SIGs (it sounds like SIG may have had/has? a bean counter CEO somewhere along the way).

Going from a Sigma to an M&P to a SHIELD is nothing radical or revolutionary - it looks more like evolution.

Getting the SHIELD right the first time shouldn't be that tough.

[HKGuns]

"Nearly" every firearm I own has a manual safety. What the heck is wrong with a manual safety? Oh, I suppose it isn't OK because those who have shot nothing but gLoCk will object? Give me a break. Looks like an M&P to me.....I don't see the big deal.

[montgomery381]

I am one of those people that is waiting to see how the shield does. The fact that people can find these guns for as little as $380 I think contributes to people being willing to take the leap on the first run of this gun as opposed to the 938 which is a $900-$1000 gun. If I had extra money and I came across a shield I would be tempted to buy it. As it is now if I decide to get one I will have to sell my current EDC. Also the M&P is a very popular gun and the shield seems to hold as true as possible to that line. I think we would see the same reaction if Glock came out with a comparable gun. The Slimline is not comparable.

[beatledog7]

HKGuns:

Nothing's wrong with a manual safety. Many of my guns have them, too.

A gun I'm going to carry for last resort, save-my-life defense has to be stupid simple. I want a round in the chamber and only one switch to make it go bang. The Shield, like its M&P brethren, is safe to carry with a chambered round without a manual safety.

[mgmorden]

"Nearly" every firearm I own has a manual safety. What the heck is wrong with a manual safety? Oh, I suppose it isn't OK because those who have shot nothing but gLoCk will object? Give me a break. Looks like an M&P to me.....I don't see the big deal.

No, my Glock doesn't have a safety.

Of course, neither does my Ruger LCP. Neither does my SIG P6, or any of my 4 revolvers.

As a matter of fact - neither does my M&P.

And if you look at similar guns in this category, guess what? The Kahr P9, the Kel-tec PF9, the Bersa CC, and the Beretta Nano all lack a thumb safety.

The Ruger LC9 and the Taurus 709 were the only ones of the polymer single-stack 9 category that came with one.

Don't try to make out the desire for no thumb safety to be some "Glock fanboy" thing. People have legitimate reasons for wanting a kill-switch left off of their defensive firearms. If others want one I see no issue with them having one - but make it an OPTIONAL feature. Heck I'd pay them an extra $50 just to leave off such gimmickry, but alas - it's not an option. As such despite being an M&P fan I'll not be buying the shield. Same actually goes for Ruger. I like their guns and bought the LCP for concealed carry but because of the safety I will not buy an LC9. At this point I really want to get the Bersa CC 9mm but its hard to find them in stock. If they don't show up somewhere soon I'll likely settle for the Kahr CW9.

[The Lone Haranguer]

My question is, why is no one posting "let's wait and see" comments about the Shield?
I would like to wait and see one first. :D But, it is a derivation of an already existing, proven design, from a reputable company, not a brand new design from an upstart.

[fastbolt]

I'm typically reluctant to become a Beta tester for a brand new pistol model. BTDT.

That's why I waited until '08 to order my first M&P (it was released in Jan '06), and after I'd attended an armorer class for the model line and had a chance to learn a little more about it.

This isn't like it's a brand new design, though, but just a subcompact variation of the M&P line, with a couple of refinements. They've been working on it for a while, benefiting from their continuing experience and success with the M&P platform.

I've been told I probably won't be able to get to an armorer class which includes the new Shield info until later this year, but after my experience as an owner, user and armorer with the existing M&P pistol models, I'm going to be buying one as soon as the LE models are released within the next 1-2 months.

I'll be buying the 9mm version, myself.

[balance 740]

But, it is a derivation of an already existing, proven design, from a reputable company, not a brand new design from an upstart.

I've never heard of another pistols using single-stack staggered mags. I think they make it more efficient size-wise than my PPS, but I'm one that is "waiting and seeing" how they hold up.

As for the manual safety, I would have rather that they made it either optional, or ambidextrous. I'm a lefty and I will not buy a Shield.

[Goomba]

External safeties on striker fired guns are silly, unless you're running a 2lb Apex kit or something.

[jon_in_wv]

I would say you haven't been looking. I've seen dozens. Check any thread about the Shield and you will see many interspersed with the inane arguments over the manual safety.
__________________

I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't making a point about the manual safety other than it is a topic of discussion as well.

[12131]

There are plenty folks around with the "let the beta testers have at it" mentality. I'm one of them. Just happen not to care about it to even mention it. But since you asked, I'm letting you know. Same old crap with anything new coming out on the market.

[9mmepiphany]

I have read many other posts about new pistols, like the Sig 938, where over half the posts say they are skeptical of first run pistols. But I am not seeing such comments about the Shield. Why?
I would think it is because the Shield is based on a basically sound design while the 938 isn't

[The Lone Haranguer]

I too am of the opinion that a manual safety is superfluous on a DAO pistol. But there are a great many people who do desire one. You don't have to use it. The "semi-staggered" magazine does seem odd, but is not unheard of - the Glock 36 uses them.

[9mmepiphany]

I've never heard of another pistols using single-stack staggered mags.
The tapered magazines make magazine changes easier. The taper funnels the magazine into the magwell and is least sensitive to mis-alignment than a single stack magazine. It is also easier on the lips of the magazines as there is less pressure on them from the magazine spring

[gfanikf]

I would say you haven't been looking. I've seen dozens. Check any thread about the Shield and you will see many interspersed with the inane arguments over the manual safety.
One guy said he wouldn't get it for that reason, as it wouldn't trust his life to a "kill switch."

[basicblur]

One guy said he wouldn't get it for that reason, as it wouldn't trust his life to a "kill switch."
What'd Dirty Harry say...A man's gotta know his limitations!? :D

Anywho - I've never seen such a bunch of whiners in my life.
For years my HD gun was a 1991-A1 Compact (previously owned a Gold Cup) - reaching up to swipe the safety became so instinctual that I usually have to tell myself not to do so with my current crop of guns sans thumb safety.

I guess if they weren't whining 'bout manual/external safeties, they'd be whining 'bout trigger pull lengths/anything over a 3.5 lb. trigger, and magazine safeties...

[jon_in_wv]

Yeah, gjanikf and you didn't get the part where I said it was an "inane" argument. Get what you prefer. With or without I would still get one.

[aryfrosty]

Probably a reason there are less doubters is that this is a tried and proven handgun. All M&Ps have been available with or without thumb safeties all along. I stayed away from the M&Ps for several reasons but spotted a .45acp with two barrels from the factory and handled it...and once handled I like it. One of the barrels is threaded for a suppressor. I felt that S&W had something coming when the M&P 9 and 40 compacts disappeared from their new catalogue and the .45C stayed in it. The Shield looks like a winner.

[gfanikf]

Yeah, gjanikf and you didn't get the part where I said it was an "inane" argument. Get what you prefer. With or without I would still get one.
Oh just saying I had seen that too. Personally my first gun was an M&P I bought that had no safeties what so ever, so I won't be surprised if S&W makes one like that anyway. Granted I tend to prefer them, but I don't think it's a huge impact either way.

[jon_in_wv]

I get it. I apologize if I came off rudely. I just have no interest in the manual safety argument. I've carried many weapons over the years and training to use the manual safety it not that difficult. Some people make it a big issue. If that is the case, buy something else. I don't get the desire they have to convince everyone else too.

[9mmepiphany]

I personally don't understand the issue with the M&P's thumb safety.

At least if you complained about a slide mounted safety like that on the S&W Gen3 or a Beretta, you'd have some basis for a complaint. With the location of the M&P's thumb safety, a high thumb draw puts your thumb above the location of the safety anyway and the rotation of the gun, at Count 2, will naturally bring your thumb down to wipe the safety off....just like on a 1911

[Ankeny]

External safeties on striker fired guns are silly, unless you're running a 2lb Apex kit or something. I bought a Shield two days ago. Already stippled the grip. :D Truth be known, I considered the safety a good thing should Apex develop something I just can't live without...For now, it stays in the off/fire position.

[beatledog7]

With the location of the M&P's thumb safety, a high thumb draw puts your thumb above the location of the safety anyway and the rotation of the gun, at Count 2, will naturally bring your thumb down to wipe the safety off....

Unless your strong hand is your left.

[carbuncle]

I have a PPS, so I really don't see a need for the Shield for me. If I want a small 9mm, I'll probably look at the slightly smaller NANO.

[jon_in_wv]

External safeties on striker fired guns are silly, unless you're running a 2lb Apex kit or something.

Please explain how a manual safety makes sense on a hammer fired gun but NOT on a striker fired gun. There has to be some logic to that statement I'm just not getting.

[mgmorden]

Please explain how a manual safety makes sense on a hammer fired gun but NOT on a striker fired gun. There has to be some logic to that statement I'm just not getting.

Its not as cut and dry as action type, but for a quick comparison without getting into details striker fired guns USUALLY fall into the "no safety needed" camp.

For me, if both of the following are true:

1. The (first) trigger pull breaks at 5lbs or more.
2. There is a noticeable amount of take-up and/or pre-travel before the break.

Then no safety is needed for safe daily carry (no safety is needed even without those for range or competition use). Whether or not its striker or hammer fired really isn't the point except that unmodified striker-fried guns as a rule of thumb almost always meet both those criteria. Most DA/SA or DAO hammer guns meet them too. A large percentage of SA hammer-fired guns don't meet one or the other of the criteria.

[ares338]

I would have already bought one but I am currently disgruntled at the S&W customer support. I have had two Trijicon ampules fall off of the front sight on my M&P 9c. The first one fell off after 150 rounds and they fixed it however it took 2 weeks then after 250 rounds the next one fell off. I talked to a guy who gave me grief because I just wanted to send in the sight and not the whole pistol. He basically insinuated that I was just trying to get a free sight and how did he know that I was the actual owner. I told him I would send a copy of the sales slip and I have registered the gun with S&W.

Anyway I sent just the sight in and it's been a month now. This is unacceptable and I will not buy another pistol, Shield or anything else until they have fulfilled their warranty. I am perplexed by this as I have always thought their customer service to be exemplary. I like the Shield but will not buy just yet if ever. I know that I'm just one small fish in the ocean but I won't be screwed and then ask for another. ��

[Canfield]

With the location of the M&P's thumb safety, a high thumb draw puts your thumb above the location of the safety anyway and the rotation of the gun, at Count 2, will naturally bring your thumb down to wipe the safety off....just like on a 1911

Do you find that the safety protrudes enough for this to work reliably?

[Wahoo95]

Do you find that the safety protrudes enough for this to work reliably?

No

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[Orion8472]

I have decided to be "a beta tester" for the Shield. Should come in this week or next. I WAS one who considered the Sig P938, and asked the question about "buying a new design, specifically the P938". However, since the M&P line is well proven, and since the Shield will be about half the cost of the P938, I am going with it.

As for the safety, I LIKE that it has a manual safety. I had a Kahr CW9 and every time I holstered it, I [slightly] feared of something catching on the trigger and *boom*, unintentionally. It may have been rare, but was possible. I like that the Shield will have a safety just for holstering. After it is in there, I plan on switching it off so it is ready for use. But handling it, specifically when I am making it safe for cleaning, I will switch it on, remove magazine and chambered round, and will do so with just a bit more security.

Bottom line, . . . I was considering a Walther PPS, but am going with the Shield FOR that extra peace of mind. Your mileage may vary.

[owen]

External safeties on striker fired guns are silly, unless you're running a 2lb Apex kit or something.

Depends on the striker fired gun. Guns like Glocks that are not cocked far enough to fire is the sear fails for some reason are one thing. If the weapon is fully cocked, and has a relatively light trigger pull like, oh, say, a bolt action, then I'd say a manual safety is necessary.

[mgmorden]

Guns like Glocks that are not cocked far enough to fire is the sear fails for some reason are one thing. If the weapon is fully cocked, and has a relatively light trigger pull like, oh, say, a bolt action, then I'd say a manual safety is necessary.

Trigger pull weight is another issue entirely, but why would the amount that the gun is cocked matter? The safety is either going to block the trigger or the sear. Regardless of which method is used, if the sear fails the safety isn't catching the hammer or the striker.

A firing pin block safety solves the issue you're describing - not a manual thumb safety.

[Cdigman]

At home, my designated personal defense firearm is loaded, but not chambered. I chamber it when I am putting it in a holster, to leave the house. Then, when I get home, I drop the mag, shuck the round from the chamber, top off the magazine, and re-seat it. Personally, I plan to use the safety on mine when loading and unloading the pistol. I'm sure the manual safety is on there, to make sure it can be sold in the California markets...I'd MUCH rather have a manual safety than a mag safety, or a "key lock" built into the gun.

[Jim NE]

A gun I'm going to carry for last resort, save-my-life defense has to be stupid simple. I want a round in the chamber and only one switch to make it go bang.

+1......

[9mmepiphany]

Do you find that the safety protrudes enough for this to work reliably?
I've only shot one on a static line and didn't have a holster, but it seemed to fall comfortably under my thumb...much better than a SIG P-series SAO.

I've been following Hilton Yam's experience running an M&P9 in competition this season. His feeling is that the thumb safety give him a comfort index during presentation for his transition from the 1911 platform

[wombat13]

Unless your strong hand is your left.Exactly. S&W didn't find it profitable to accommodate LH shooters, so they won't make any profit from me.

[moonman16]

My Shield works GREAT, 300 rounds down range so far. 115/124/147 all work fine, absolutely no FTF or problems of any sort. I've had it a week and 3 range sessions already, another scheduled Friday evening. The trigger reset is nice.

[LightningMan]

I'm waiting to find a S&W Shield in a .40 S&W, as I have some sub-compact 9mm'ers that are smaller, like my PM9. Not so much when it comes to the .40 S&W, as the smallest .40 I have is my M&P .40c. LM

[WRGADog]

The gun is larger than my Nano and PM9. It is closer in size to the Walther PPS which I also have. So, I saw no reason to purchase the Shield. That said it is a nice gun and fit my hand well, especially with the 8 round mag.

[greenlion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7pmjCWSgJU

Hickok45's Review of the Shield. :)

[Orion8472]

Pretty good review.

[9mmepiphany]

Apex Tactical just took their Shield Carry Kit (SCK) out to do some testing...1.5 hours and 1000 rounds of flawless function later

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/411200_10151545877385117_465376485116_23729070_1361413069_o.jpg

[Orion8472]

Stuff like that is an elixir for the soul! :)

[ritepath]

I'll be holding out for a 45 shield...

unless I decide to get a 9 or 40.

It's an M&P what is there to doubt. I love my 9c it's been a beast since I've owned it, my next pistol will be another M&P in 40 or 45 except full sized. Another Conceal carry pistol is down on the list a little bit for now.

[Nakanokalronin]

I have no problem with the Shield but height and length wise, it's not much better than most subcompact guns. Like the Nano, they plan on releasing it in .40S&W which means it could of been smaller in certain areas then it is. The Shield is the new kid in town and everyone is clamoring for the new slim 9mm like they were for the pocket .380s. Considering there are so many people snapping them up, your better off waiting for them too start flooding the used sections when the next best thing comes out.

I handled a Shield at my LGS and I saw no advantages over my Ultra Carry in 45acp with 7rds and the slim RAASCO grips I have on it. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice gun (minus the trigger) and I like the thumb safety, but it's funny to see every forum bursting with threads about the same gun. We'll see how things go in another year.

[dondavis3]

I agree with this

"it is a derivation of an already existing, proven design, from a reputable company, not a brand new design from an upstart."

And for those that haven't shoot a M&P - wow they are good.


:cool:

[daferg2]

I have a Shield. I guess I'm a beta tester, but I have to say I love this gun so far. It shoots just as well as its big brothers, and that's saying a lot.

I'd prefer that it didn't have a safety, but it is small enough, and out of the way enough, that you can leave it off and never have to think about it again (also takes a deliberate effort to engage and disengage).

I think it works well for both the "safety" and "no safety" camps. There if you want it. Invisible if you don't.

[gym]

If you don't like safetys don't use them. I can never understand why this presents a problem for some folks. I have 1 gun other than my 1911's with a safety. The lc9, and I leave it off when of of my house. I usually have it on when my grandkids are over,4 of them, 1-9yrs old. As I won't go unarmed. My lc9 stays in a holster "sticky" in a private place, but in the 1 in a million chance a kid got in my waist or grabbed my holster, it's a second thing they would have to circumvent before firing the gun, which at their age would be difficult if not impossible. if not for that I would have to unchamber it. which is more dangerous should someone come crashing in. Scince they are all girls and their parents hate guns, it's never brought up.I am not changing a phsycologists mind on this subject.
I think there are a lot of single guys in here who like me when I was single, didn't have to worry about little people wandering through the house. They get into everything, all my stuff is in the safe except 1 that's on me, whenever they are around.

[gfanikf]

Exactly. S&W didn't find it profitable to accommodate LH shooters, so they won't make any profit from me.

Really? I'm left but I didn't run into any issues when handling it.

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[marksman13]

The Shield is probably the best feeling compact 9mm I have ever handled. We got one in last week and I was tempted to buy it, but put me in the wait and see camp. I'll probably pick one up next year if no major issues surface.

[Shipwreck]

I shot a rental one on Sat - I am trying to get one now. I MIGHT have one by the end of the day :)