Anti-gun Experiences with Doubletree Hotel?


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coloradokevin
April 23, 2012, 05:22 AM
I just had an unexpected experience at a Doubletree Hotel, and thought I'd check around here to see if any of you have experienced a similar type of situation. Here's what happened:

I'm a police officer, and I was recently sent to a Doubletree Hotel in my jurisdiction to investigate a disturbance. When I arrived at the hotel I was met at the front door by the manager and the head of security.

The security guy explained that they went to one of their hotel rooms to confront a couple of guests regarding a loud verbal argument they were having in the room that was apparently disturbing other guests. While in the hotel room the security guy noticed that the guest had a "loaded handgun in a holster on the nightstand" (not sure how he surmised that it was loaded).

The security guard said that he then told the guest that his handgun would have to be locked in the hotel's front desk safe because the hotel "has a policy that allows no weapons of any kind on the property". The guest apparently protested this request and told the hotel security guard something to the effect of: "your property isn't posted as not allowing guns, you guys didn't tell me that I couldn't have my gun, and I'm legally allowed to have my gun in Colorado, so I don't need to give it to you". This response, coupled with the argument, apparently caused the security guard to contact my department for assistance.

Before I could ask for more information about the situation my sergeant (who appeared equally bewildered) asked the hotel staff if there was any kind of written policy on guns at the hotel. Both the manager and the security guy waffled on this issue a bit, and stated that it is a hotel policy that is apparently not written anywhere. They said that the policy was in place for the safety of their guests. The security guy claimed that "we even have the U.S. Sky Marshals who stay here place their guns in the safe", then said that "we have sporting events in town from time to time and also require our guests to place their purchased firearms in the safe". (NOTE: I've worked in this same jurisdiction for nearly a decade now, and have never heard any other mention of this policy at this hotel. I have no idea if any Sky Marshals actually stay at this hotel, but it doesn't seem like it would be the most likely place for them to routinely overnight).

Anyway, we asked what they were hoping to accomplish from this situation and they told us that the guest would be trespassed from the location if he didn't agree to check his gun. As such, we went to the room in an attempt to talk with the guest, who had already left the location prior to our arrival. So, I have no idea what his side of this story would have sounded like, though I can probably guess.

Regardless, this attitude on the part of the hotel staff did bother me a bit. Colorado has no law that would prevent a hotel guest from legally possessing a firearm in their hotel room, and we don't have a provision in our law by which businesses can "officially" post their establishments as a "gun free zone". Of course, as always, the owner of a property retains the right to refuse entry to anyone they don't wish to have on their property, which in this case apparently included gun owners (and it isn't good policy for me to play politics while I'm working).

I've stayed at Doubletree Hotels a number of times in the past (probably 30 nights or more), and I've always liked the experience. In fact, I've gone as far as to seek out Doubletree Hotels on a number of occasions. I've always had my gun with me while traveling, but the hotel has never been aware of this fact (I carry the gun concealed, I don't flash it around like a fool, and I don't leave it laying around the hotel room when I'm not there). Nevertheless, I generally don't like to frequent establishments that don't like to honor our rights as citizens. There are plenty of nice hotels to choose from, and I'd really like to know if this was an isolated incident!

Any insight you guys may have would be appreciated! I also might make a phone call to their corporate office when I have the opportunity, just to see what they say (I'll approach that merely as a concerned citizen... again, I don't like to mix politics with my job).

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evan price
April 23, 2012, 06:31 AM
I'm not a lawyer, but my belief was that a rented hotel room becomes, for the duration of your stay, your domicile, and you get all of the benefits and such that go with this, which should include the same right to possess a firearm as if you were in your own home in that state.
I would say that the hotel would have no legal leg to stand on with regard to forcing guests to give up their guns. If the guest was already booked into the hotel and received a room key, the attempt to trespass the occupant wold be an illegal eviction. Not that that would be the thing to argue with the officer 'on the side of the road' so to speak, but it would be a civil matter.

I would also say that how far has the hotelier dropped in terms of discretion, when the duty and job of a hotelier is to ease their guests' travels with hospitable treatment, ensuring the tranquility and satisfaction of the guest.

Shadow 7D
April 23, 2012, 07:15 AM
write corporate, personally if I was the guest, I'd contest the bill and leave a nice message with the manager and the owner and corporate, gist is this

MAKE IT RIGHT
or I'm gonna smear you up one side and down the other, when they look you up on the web, the first thing they will read is my experience with your hotel.

If it was me, I would have been there, cause they would have been reversing my charges. That said, it also depends on the type of person, it may have been the type that rather wouldn't like to talk to the cops about his gun, cause he ain't supposed to have it, or it may be the type that would rather walk away than do something stupid cause he was so mad.

Averageman
April 23, 2012, 07:55 AM
Before I could ask for more information about the situation my sergeant (who appeared equally bewildered) asked the hotel staff if there was any kind of written policy on guns at the hotel. Both the manager and the security guy waffled on this issue a bit, and stated that it is a hotel policy that is apparently not written anywhere. They said that the policy was in place for the safety of their guests. The security guy claimed that "we even have the U.S. Sky Marshals who stay here place their guns in the safe", then said that "we have sporting events in town from time to time and also require our guests to place their purchased firearms in the safe".
This sounds like someone went to a guest room and got their feelings hurt when they engaged in a battle of wits unarmed.
I would contact Corprate on Department letterhead and ask them to resolve the issue or to quit wasting your time next time the Manager and Security get sand in their panties.

chevyman097
April 23, 2012, 10:52 AM
I never understood the logic of taking a firearm from someone(who likely has handled it many times and knows it well), and putting it into some one elses hands/control that might not know to handle it.

But I would deffinately contact their higher ups. It sounds like maybe some one got their feelings hurt because they had no authority over the situation.

crracer_712
April 23, 2012, 10:54 AM
Good for the tenant for not turning over his firearm. Also what a great way to handle it by the Police.

hso
April 23, 2012, 12:17 PM
If it isn't posted and there isn't a prohibition on anything the guest is signing (which I don't remember seeing on DT checkin sheets) I'd assume they were either making it up or they are a franchise operation and the franchise has a policy somewhere.

Regardless, if that isn't posted or on a guest checkin sheet the franchise doesn't have a basis to allow the manager to make up random rules.

Jon Coppenbarger
April 23, 2012, 12:24 PM
If I remember right one of the prefered hotels for the tulsa show is the double tree.
I could see denver area being jurks about it but the springs not really.

But they left anyways so they got the results they wanted. But then again if they had not been called to the room nobody would of even known they had a firearm.

Prince Yamato
April 23, 2012, 12:34 PM
I would be suspicious of the hotel staff. Are any of them prohibited persons? It's not like a felony precludes you from working at a hotel. Who else has access to the safe? Sounds to me like they made up the policy as they went along.

Honestly, the staff sounds rather stupid to me. I would never have confronted someone about a firearm in the room whether it was against the hotel policy or not. Situation 1) you're being a jerk to a law abiding citizen and you're going to lose business for the chain. Situation 2) that person is not law abiding and you basically just antagonized an armed criminal.

If anything can be gleaned from this it is that people need to do their jobs and mind their own business. It was a noise complaint- they could have called up to the room and said to keep it down.

Shawn Dodson
April 23, 2012, 12:43 PM
Chances are the Doubletree has a policy which forbids gun possession by employees on on corporate property during working hours. Either the manager & security guard were confused and thought it also applied to hotel guests or they were attempting to intentionally misapply it to the particular hotel guest in this situation.

I travel with my pistols and stay at hotels frequently. I've had zero problems with hotel staff nor am I aware of any hotel that forbids guests from possessing firearms in their rooms.

jrdolall
April 23, 2012, 01:26 PM
Doubletree is a Hilton property. Hampton Inns, Hilton, Homewood Suites, Embassy Suites, Waldorf and a couple of others. I am a Diamond member of their travel program and have been for many years. I have never seen a notice in any of their hotels regarding firearms of any kinds and I have stayed several hundred nights all over the country. I have carried what were obviously firearms cases when travelling on hunting trips and none of them have ever even looked at them. If it was a corporate policy then at least one of the locations would have objected to my rifles. I have actually carried a hunting rifle and stayed at the Doubletree near the Denver Airport, Aurora maybe?, with no issues. This was sometime last year.

I carry a pistol when possible but I have never had it in plain sight so I do not know what the reaction might be if it were noticed. I do NOT leave it in the room when I leave the room for any reason any more than I would leave my wallet.

If they were responding to a noise disturbance then it must have really been out of hand since their normal action is to make a polite call or two. They probably were freaked out when they saw a "loaded" gun (correct assumption since all guns are loaded in my book) sitting in the room of someone who was so obnoxious they needed an actual visit from the hotel security guard. Calling the police was probably a valid decision at this point but it sounds like they made up the policy on the spot trying to get the guest removed from the hotel. Hotel manager(probably the desk manager on duty) and hotel security guard are not way up the ladder on the employment scale of the corporation and they were trying to diffuse a scary situation.

baylorattorney
April 23, 2012, 01:31 PM
I was staying at a Westin Galleria back in college days in Houston, Texas. After a day stay we swapped rooms and I forgot my Beretta. When I went back to recover it, security already had it. They said I could have my magazine or gun back but not both. Of course I took the gun as I had spare mags. Hotel policies forbid firearms in rooms generally. Texas law says its ok, like your house or car pretty much.

Owen Sparks
April 23, 2012, 01:33 PM
Don't the rules have to be printed on the registration card you sign before they can be enforced? If this were a lease on an appartment they would. I knew a guy who got into a dispute with his landlord about having a cat. It went to court and he won because there was nothing in the lease he signed restricting pets. When his lease expired and the new one came in January it did say NO PETS so he refused to sign it and had to move. A lease is a contract.

How is renting a motel room any different?

Henhouse1
April 23, 2012, 01:47 PM
Sorry for a slight thread diversion, but in light of pointblank4445's aforementioned Youtube video, I must post my own sad video epic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vL7srN66HQ

CAUTION!! LANGUAGE!!!

coloradokevin
April 23, 2012, 02:53 PM
Well, the good news that I'm seeing in this thread is that no one else has had a negative gun-related experience with this hotel chain. So far I've also found no written policy of any kind regarding the possession of guns in their hotel rooms, and this isolated incident is the only one I've been involved in at the Doubletree chain.

As such, it is certainly quite possible that the hotel security guy in this particular case was creating policy as he went. Lets hope that is the case!

denton
April 23, 2012, 05:34 PM
I think evan nailed it.

When you rent a room, you make a contract. If a firearm exclusion is not part of the contract up front, the hotel does not have a leg to stand on. The renter is entitled to the undisturbed use of his rental, and the owner of the property cannot even enter the room without his permission any more than he can come to your home and just barge in.

Averageman
April 24, 2012, 05:25 PM
Doubletree is a Hilton property. Hampton Inns, Hilton, Homewood Suites, Embassy Suites, Waldorf and a couple of others. I am a Diamond member of their travel program and have been for many years. I have never seen a notice in any of their hotels regarding firearms of any kinds and I have stayed several hundred nights all over the country.
I always stay at Hilton,I often bring long guns and pistols. I have never had an issue in either Anniston Ala. or Colorado Springs Colo. and clearly the staff was aware that was a weapons hard case.

Vector
April 24, 2012, 06:01 PM
Ive stayed a DT as well as many hotels, even some in anti-gun cities. I've never seen or read any restrictions on entering or staying in the hotel with a firearm.
Rest assured if I ever do that chain will be taken off my list, and corporate will get a letter and a copy will go to the local paper, NRA, and any place else I can think of to let people know.

Tempest 455
April 24, 2012, 07:38 PM
I have never seen a disclaimer as well. Even so, all the more reason why my gun is always in my bag when I check in.

unspellable
April 24, 2012, 09:21 PM
I once made a BIG oopsie. I left my revolver under my pillow (not loaded) and left for the day. When I returned, the maid service had made up the bed including the pillow and had obviously discovered the revolver. It was still in place and I never heard a word about it in the several weeks I stayed there..

Don't remember the name for sure, but think it was Embassy Suites.

PR-NJ
April 24, 2012, 09:40 PM
I think the guest made the error. He should have kept the gun out of sight when answering the door. The reality is that most folks are not comfortable around firearms.

Further, if I were hotel security, I would be on "heightened alert" if I went to a room to quiet down a domestic squabble and saw a gun -- loaded or not.

The hotel is interested in managing risk, not violating 2A rights. If another guest were to get shot and the hotel knew that the guest doing the shooting had a gun, the hotel's exposure to a significant tort claim would be exponentially increased.

Fremmer
April 24, 2012, 11:03 PM
Ok heres a real world perspective. Forget the silly contract or policy arguments.

The hotel has the right to ask for the gun so that they don't get sued by an estate or another guest. There's already been complaints about the domestic argument. If they were concerned about the woman they have the right and maybe the duty to prevent a pissed off guy from possessing a firearm. And if he doesn't like it then he shouldn't have caused such a scene.

denton
April 25, 2012, 01:38 AM
The hotel has the right to ask for the gun

Not to be disagreeable, but I don't think so. Well, they can ask, but nobody is under any obligation whatever to hand it over. The room you rent is as much yours as your home is, as long as your rent is paid. A landlord who enters a rental without permission (often given in a rental contract) can be charged with trespassing. Seize your firearm? Clearly out of bounds unless you knowingly agreed to something in advance.

A hotel is not the judicial/law enforcement establishment.

Here in Utah, state law guarantees your right to have a loaded firearm in your temporary residence, such as a hotel room.

Owen
April 25, 2012, 01:46 AM
my understanding was that hotels in general could not prevent guests from having legally possessed guns in their rooms.

Fremmer
April 25, 2012, 01:59 AM
Lol that's great. Keep your gun. But when you engage in a loud argument that disturbs other guests, and security has to come, and you've got your gun sitting there, the hotel can certainly require you to calm down and check the gun if you want to stay there. This isn't a landlord tenant case or a contract case, it is a nice hotel that doesn't want to be sued if someone gets shot. And they don't want to lose business from other guests. I do note that the op didn't say this was a domestic dispute, i presumed that. But the hotels actions are nevertheless justified.

Most hotels have a don't ask and don't tell policy. They don't want to know what or who you have in that room, and they don't want any problems. But if you cause problems and there's a gun involved, things get complicated. The guy actually did the smart thing by leaving after he caused a problem so the police didn't have to deal with it any more than they did.

mnrivrat
April 25, 2012, 02:06 AM
My gun has been on the nightstand of every motel I have been to. And it will continue that way.

I agree the motel has no right to disarm a tenant. In this case they may? have been able to evict based on the disturbance, but not because of the firearm. Calling the police regarding the gun issue was a classic case of being orfaces on the south end of a north bound mammal.

evan price
April 25, 2012, 02:06 AM
Fremmer, you can't forget the "silly contract arguments" because that's at the root of the matter. By contract law, your hotel room is an extension of your home, and you have the same rights that you would have if you had a real house in that state.

You expect that if the cops are called to a home address they should demand all guns be rounded up and given to them for no reason, too?

USAF-ORF
April 25, 2012, 02:35 AM
I served 22 yrs with the Air Force traveling the World as an Aircraft Mechanic. At one of my Bases, fortunatly I was allowed to volunteer as a Firefighter/Paramedic with the small town I lived in as long as it did'nt interfer with my military duties. (mostly weekends and after duty hours)
I noticed that when I was called out to a sene, that 99% of the time everyone wanted me there to fight a fire or treat a patient. That one percent was usually when grandpa did'nt want to go to the Hospital. I also noticed that when L.E. was called out to a domestic sene that 99% of the time, one if not both of the parties did'nt want the police there. I thinck that the civilian view of police has changed over the last 30 years. The term Law Enforcement suggest that someone needs to be forced to comply with the laws.(my perception) I believe that most people want to follow the Laws. Unfortunatly You get called out (a lot) to that small percent that does'nt. I commend you for takeing (THE HIGH ROAD) by trying to make sence of the greyness of the situation you faced. You sir, are a genuine Peace Officer. I infer that when a Officer/Deputy/Trooper acts as a Peace Officer you win back the admiration of the populace.:)
THANK YOU.

P.S I know you care deeply about your job because you posted here, looking for consense. God Bless You

Fremmer
April 25, 2012, 02:42 AM
Lol fine. The guest materially breached the contract by disturbing the peace of other guests in a domestic dispute involving a firearm. The hotel therefore terminated the contract. And dude learned that you gotta watch the screaming in a nice hotel, especially if you're leaving your gun sitting around when security gets involved.

And this isn't an extension of your home. Its a hilton. They can kick you out for causing problems, especially for disturbing other guests.

pockets
April 25, 2012, 08:10 AM
+1 to what Fremmer said.

This wasn't a gun issue, it was a domestic disturbance issue....with a gun found at the scene.
Had they not been fighting and disturbing the other rooms, there would have been no issue, no complaint, no police, and no post to argue about here.

.

EvilGenius
April 25, 2012, 09:26 AM
+1 to what Fremmer said.

This wasn't a gun issue, it was a domestic disturbance issue....with a gun found at the scene.
Had they not been fighting and disturbing the other rooms, there would have been no issue, no complaint, no police, and no post to argue about here.

.
I agree with this as far as it not actually being a gun issue (at least not initially), but i do not agree with it being the hotel's "right" or "duty" to take a gun away from someone just because they are upset. That's asinine. The hotel is in no way a law enforcement entity and has no right to disarm someone else just because they fear some potential issue.

I theyre so worried about the guest shooting someone in a crime of passion then they shouldve asked them to leave under the guise of the noise disturbance, which supposedly was the real issue and reason enough to evict them. But instead they made up a rule on te spot and made the situation worse.

denton
April 25, 2012, 12:10 PM
the hotel can certainly require you to calm down

Yes.

and check the gun if you want to stay there

No.

j1
April 25, 2012, 12:19 PM
I believe that the only time that I must surrender my gun is to a LEO if he requests it. That would not be a good time to argue aither.

coloradokevin
April 25, 2012, 02:41 PM
Thanks for all of the thought provoking replies, everyone. Admittedly, the concern to me wasn't so much about this particular guest, as much as it was for every other guest at the hotel who wished to carry a gun there, then or in the future.

As I said at the start of this thread, the guest in question was already gone when I got there, so I never really got the chance to personally see what he was all about. But, the guy obviously drew a lot of unwanted attention by having a loud argument with his spouse that attracted security to his room after multiple complaints from other guests. His room also had small children in it at that time, and there was an allegation by security of marijuana smoke (Colorado now has "medical marijuana", and this guy apparently told security that he possessed a medical marijuana card).

So, I can certainly understand why an upscale hotel like the Doubletree was less than satisfied with this guest, and I can appreciate why they might want to have him booted from the room (it clearly isn't good business to have all of your other guests disturbed by one guy who wants to act like a fool. Add to that the possible drug use, and the gun, and I don't think they were being entirely unreasonable by being concerned).

But, the part that bothered me (and led to this thread) was the fact that the hotel claimed that they have a blanket no firearms policy in their hotels, and that ALL guests MUST check their firearms in the safe at the front desk. Fortunately it is starting to sound like this so-called "policy" is a unique creation of this particular security guy, at this particular hotel. Requiring your guests (or a particular guest) to check their firearm doesn't seem reasonable, but it does seem reasonable to ask a guest to leave if they are creating a disturbance or conducting illegal activity (unknown with the drugs) in your hotel room.

harrygunner
April 25, 2012, 03:29 PM
Thank you 'coloradokevin' for how you approached this situation.

There are behaviors that are harmful to society. But, mere possession of a metal object should not be looked on as actual harm. Glad you believe that as well.

The security people at that location were out of line. I have a Hilton membership, among others and have never seen a 'no guns' sign at any hotel. I carry concealed and keep the 'Do not disturb' sign up the whole time I'm in a hotel to keep the maids out. So, of course, I've never had a problem.

Pilot
April 25, 2012, 03:45 PM
We need more LEO's like Coloradokevin!

Steve CT
April 25, 2012, 04:01 PM
I never understood the logic of taking a firearm from someone(who likely has handled it many times and knows it well), and putting it into some one elses hands/control that might not know to handle it.

But I would deffinately contact their higher ups. It sounds like maybe some one got their feelings hurt because they had no authority over the situation.
Tell me to leave the Hotel (and I'm NOT paying for the room), but I will not give a gun to anyone that I do not know is capable of handling it safely.

EvilGenius
April 25, 2012, 04:40 PM
We need more LEO's like Coloradokevin!

+1!

Fremmer
April 25, 2012, 07:23 PM
Ok so it was a domestic dispute. Which makes the firearm problem even more of a problem. We've got a domestic dispute with screaming, controlled substances, and a firearm. Of course hilton told the guy to check his gun or leave. And that was actually gracious on their part.

You guys do realize that if dude shoots his wife, himself, and/or another guest, hilton is going to be set upon by a deluge of lawsuits, right? Not to mention the loss of future business from guests who don't care for screaming domestic disputes ending with gunshots. This isn't about hilton being anti gun or a made up policy (the security guard should have just told the op that hilton doesn't want this screaming guy with a gun on their property instead of some bs story about a policy ). This is about a guy who made a fuss in the wrong place at the wrong time, and hilton doesn't have to tolerate that foolishness.

FourTeeFive
April 25, 2012, 08:25 PM
The Hampton Inn in Addison Texas has a "no concealed weapons" sign on their front door. There is a Hilton Garden Inn right down the street. I'll have to see if they have one as well.

Seems particularly strange in a place like Texas. I stay at a lot of Hilton properties and this is the first time I've seen the sign.

Larry Ashcraft
April 25, 2012, 09:06 PM
Seems particularly strange in a place like Texas.
It would be even more strange in Colorado, where such signs have no meaning.

Kevin, please keep us updated. Even before I had a permit I always had my .45 with me in any hotel room.

EvilGenius
April 25, 2012, 09:15 PM
Ok so it was a domestic dispute. * Which makes the firearm problem even more of a problem.*

Not necessarily.

We've got a domestic dispute with screaming, *controlled substances, and a firearm.

Was he waving the gun around? I don't see how it was involved.

And that was actually gracious on their part. *


What else were they going to do about it?

You guys do realize that if dude shoots his wife, *himself, and/or another guest, hilton is going to be set upon by a deluge of lawsuits, right?

Of course we realize they'll be sued like nobody's business. It's completely understandable that they want to avoid that and provide a pleasurable experience for their other guests.

*Not to mention the loss of future business from guests who don't care for screaming domestic disputes ending with*gunshots.

Nothing in this story guarantees that as an outcome.

This*isn't about hilton being anti gun or a made up policy (the security guard should have just told the op that hilton doesn't want this screaming guy with a gun on their property instead of some bs story about a policy ). This is about a guy who made a fuss in the wrong place at the wrong time, and hilton doesn't have to tolerate that foolishness.
Yup.

But regardless, they do not have the right to take the gun from him.*


On a side note, just because someone is upset doesnt mean that they have such a huge lack of self control to resort to physical violence and does not indicate that they guy would have used the gun. I've had out and out yelling matches with my ex as mad as I've ever been, yet not once did violence ever cross my mind.

EvilGenius
April 25, 2012, 09:17 PM
It would be even more strange in Colorado, where such signs have no meaning.
If they say what he quoted they have no meaning in Texas either.

Double_J
April 25, 2012, 09:33 PM
I remember a saying when I was working in the "tourist entertainment" field. The saying went that "if you can't count, cook, or clean you must be security." That holds true here as the security officer is making up the policy as he went along.

I for one will NOT surrender my firearm to a desk clerk/manager or security officer at a hotel without a GOOD reason. If the hotel has a policy I want to see the policy in writing and I want a refund of my stay if I am being evicted. If I don't get a refund then I would call my credit card company and reverse the charges and have an attorney write a letter to the corporate office. The attorney might cost more than the room, but I find a well written letter from an officer of the court will get peoples attention real quick.

The story I am reading is that a "manager" and a security officer were scared of a person with a firearm. I would have asked them if they were scared of my sidearm, and did I need to check it with them? I would also have told them that if the "check your guns" policy is not in writing then it has no force of law. I would also remind them that the room has been rented to the guest, and if they try to evict without proper cause then they will end up in a world of trouble, especially if it is on a "fly by night" policy that is not formally documented. Several franchisees have lost their franchise rights due to this very act, and I bet that Hilton would be quick to not damage its reputation due to a couple of employees at a franchise property.

Matthew Courtney
April 25, 2012, 09:47 PM
When hotel employees attempt to coerce an interstate traveler to surrender a pistol to the hotel for "safekeeping" or anything else that isn't a "sporting purpose", they are attempting to get the traveler to commit a federal felony. If two employees join together in the endeavor and take steps to do so, they are conspiring to commit a federal felony even without the participation of the traveler.

When I pointed this out to Disney, they changed their policy and have quit trying to disarm guests at their Orlando Hotels.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

EvilGenius
April 25, 2012, 10:15 PM
When hotel employees attempt to coerce an interstate traveler to surrender a pistol to the hotel for "safekeeping" or anything else that isn't a "sporting purpose", they are attempting to get the traveler to commit a federal felony. If two employees join together in the endeavor and take steps to do so, they are conspiring to commit a federal felony even without the participation of the traveler.

When I pointed this out to Disney, they changed their policy and have quit trying to disarm guests at their Orlando Hotels.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Do you mind providing a link to those?

I would like to read them.

Fremmer
April 25, 2012, 10:22 PM
Conspiracy is always interesting.

Matthew Courtney
April 25, 2012, 10:40 PM
Do you mind providing a link to those?

I would like to read them.
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

BCCL
April 25, 2012, 10:52 PM
a rented hotel room becomes, for the duration of your stay, your domicile, and you get all of the benefits and such that go with this, which should include the same right to possess a firearm as if you were in your own home in that state.

^this

denton
April 25, 2012, 10:55 PM
When hotel employees attempt to coerce an interstate traveler to surrender a pistol to the hotel for "safekeeping" or anything else that isn't a "sporting purpose", they are attempting to get the traveler to commit a federal felony.

I believe that is probably correct. If I understand the law, the hotel would be in possession of an out-of-state firearm. I believe it is a felony to receive such a firearm or to deliver it.

Interesting catch. Thank you.

So what's the law about trying to coerce someone into committing a felony?

lobo9er
April 25, 2012, 11:02 PM
............

FourTeeFive
April 26, 2012, 01:20 AM
The Hampton Inn Addison Texas has a 30.06 sign in the window. See below. The Hilton Garden Inn down the street does not.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w4/fourteefive/HamptonAddison.jpg

ChileRelleno
April 26, 2012, 01:22 AM
Due to my job as a trucker, driving a day cab with no sleeper, I stay in hotels 3-4 nights a week on average, and have for the last three years.
Never have I seen anything pertaining to firearms posted on any entrances, nor on any contractual paperwork at any hotel chain. I would not stay at any hotel that had any such rules, and would make danged sure they knew it.

Some States do have laws regarding a leased room as your domicile and your 2A Rights are protected... YMMV by State.
At the same time the hotel can terminate their contract with you for creating a disturbance or otherwise breaking the law.

This was about some fool creating a disturbance and likely the firearm was used as a hedge against the guest, that and/or, the hotel staff were gun fearing types.
All they had to do in was report the disturbance and trespass the guest in order to have them removed by LE.

BBDartCA
April 26, 2012, 01:53 AM
I believe hotels being allowed to ban firearms varies by state. Complicated issue with regard to the rights or property owners. They can ban smoking on their property no problem. Can they ban using toothpaste? Article about such in Utah. http://travel.usatoday.com/hotels/post/2011/01/utah-panel-oks-gun-hotel-room-bill/140745/1

I think all or most Doubletrees are franchises. So you may have corporate hotel policy (probably some fine print buried in your rental agreement), plus that of the policy of the hotel operator. From a practical standpoint, owners may ban firearms due to the fear they may get into a hotel employee's or other's hands leading to a liability problem for the property owner. For example, hotel guest leaves his loaded AK47 next to the toilet. Cleaning lady mishandles it leading to an injury / death. Employer gets sued / jailed for having a dangerous workplace.

Personally I stay at a Doubletree on some hunting trips and they do not mind wheeling in two big gun cases. But a friend wanted to dress his hog in the room, which they were not OK with.

FourTeeFive
April 26, 2012, 03:00 AM
Thinking out loud here:

Unload the handgun in car. Carry handgun in luggage into room. Load gun. It was never a "concealed" weapon.

What about carrying a concealed but unloaded handgun and doing the same thing?

TacoMalo
April 26, 2012, 03:29 AM
Pursuant to 30.06... ahhhh... that sign should really just say "we really don't like any sort of silly legalities and actually prefer criminals to run rampant plus we even keep out the good guys so you can feel free to commit your felonies in a safe work environment"

Pilot
April 26, 2012, 04:47 AM
But a friend wanted to dress his hog in the room, which they were not OK with.


That's a bit rude, don't you think? Yes, she may be fat, and a bit on the homely side, but that is still his wife you're talking about!

:evil:


Seriously, I have no problem with a hotel restricting the FIELD dressing of animals in their rooms. Smell, mess, blood, room damage, angry guests, etc all means lost $$$ for them.

Oh yeah, concealed means concealed.

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 26, 2012, 07:48 AM
The Hampton Inn Addison Texas has a 30.06 sign in the window. See below. The Hilton Garden Inn down the street does not.

Doesn't it need to be in Spanish as well?

FourTeeFive
April 26, 2012, 09:06 AM
The Hampton Inn Addison Texas has a 30.06 sign in the window. See below. The Hilton Garden Inn down the street does not.

Doesn't it need to be in Spanish as well?

It is, on the other side of the entrance.

Pursuant to 30.06... ahhhh... that sign should really just say "we really don't like any sort of silly legalities and actually prefer criminals to run rampant plus we even keep out the good guys so you can feel free to commit your felonies in a safe work environment"

I'll be contacting Hilton and the individual hotel management about this topic. Basically will say I don't feel safe staying at their property since they are telling criminals this is a good place to wait for hotel guests in the parking lot. And I get to choose where I spend my money.

DesertFox
April 26, 2012, 11:40 AM
Right.... "Leave your valuables (including your guns) in your vehicle." basically what 30.06 signs are saying. Then in the parking lot the signage reads "Not responsible for valuables or contents of vehicles..." Might as well just hand your gun over to a criminal and then thank them. We live in a peculiar time where hypocrites rule.

Of all the places one finds themselves, a hotel in particular would seem to be one of the likely places where a little "backup" would give that additional peace of mind. OTOH, bedbugs are probably a higher percentage risk!

jrdolall
April 26, 2012, 12:29 PM
In light of FourTeeFive's comment about a Hampton Inn in Addison TX I contacted the Hilton Honors customer service this morning. I was re-directed to a more senior rep for an answer to my question and I refused to give a specific hotel name or location since I did not personally see the sign. I am not in any way doubting that the sign is there but I don't want to tell them I actually saw the sign when that is not true.
Hilton does not have a corporate policy againts having a gun on the property but most of their properties are franchised and those franchisees can implement policies that they feel are best for their locations. For instance they can be totally non-smoking even if that is not a law in their area. Apparently this franchisee does not want legal guns on his property and that is within his/her rights as a franchise owner as long as the policy does not differ from written Hilton policy.

It will be up to the people who live in the area to make their feelings known to this franchise. It could be a single unit franchise or multiple hotels with different affiliations. I stayed at a franchised Hampton in Sacramento last year that had a Holiday Inn Express across the parking lot and the same company owned both hotels. I took the HI shuttle to the airport which was a bit strange. It would take a lot of pressure on Hilton Corporate and I doubt they have the ability to make the hotel change the policy since it does not directly interfere with the franchise agreement.

Hilton routinely removes hotels from their umbrella if they do not meet Hilton guidelines so enough complaints may spur them into some sort of action.

harrygunner
April 26, 2012, 05:46 PM
Wow. After seening that sign 'FourTeeFive' posted, I'm notifying Hilton I'm dropping my membership with them and telling them why.

If I booked a room and saw a sign like that after arriving, I'd would feel like I had been scammed.

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 26, 2012, 06:34 PM
It is, on the other side of the entrance.

Doesn't sound like it's legal because it's posted on the other side.

FourTeeFive
April 26, 2012, 07:26 PM
Hilton does not have a corporate policy againts having a gun on the property but most of their properties are franchised and those franchisees can implement policies that they feel are best for their locations.

I'm betting that is the case here, and I will let them know that in the future I will stay down the street at a hotel without the sign. I'm also letting my business associates in the area know of this policy.

After seening that sign 'FourTeeFive' posted, I'm notifying Hilton I'm dropping my membership with them and telling them why.

If I booked a room and saw a sign like that after arriving, I'd would feel like I had been scammed.


I like most Hilton properties and intend to keep my business with them. However, I will not give business to those properties that have a sign. I intend to contact Hilton corporate and let them know that customers need to know when booking if the property is non gun-owner friendly. I am a very good customer of the Hilton chain and I hope my voice will be heard.

Doesn't sound like it's legal because it's posted on the other side.

I don't think it meets the contrast requirements either.

In doing some web searching it seems this location had a previous non-compliant sign in terms of wording and they changed it specifically to compliant wording. So I really don't want to mention that aspect of it to management.

Also in my searching I found a couple of competition shooting groups that stay at the Addison location! Go figure.

j1
April 27, 2012, 05:31 PM
Allowing your firearm out of your posession is dangerous and foolish.

FourTeeFive
April 27, 2012, 06:58 PM
Is an unloaded handgun in your luggage considered "concealed" under Texas law? I looked over 30.06 and it didn't have any specifics:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm

I'm still thinking for a hotel you could unload the handgun in your car. Carry handgun in luggage into room. Load gun. It was never a "concealed" weapon, or was it?

harrygunner
April 27, 2012, 08:09 PM
I went to the website for the Hampton Inn in Addison, TX. There was no hint of their firearms policy within their FAQ or announcements about microwave ovens and free wireless Internet.

When I drive, I'll go over twelve hours a day, arriving late and ready to rest. Or if I fly from the west coast to the east, by time you add in flight time, time zone shifts and layovers, I always get to a hotel after dark.

That makes it more difficult to find other arrangements. And when I declare I'm going to another hotel, I'm sure there'd be a heated discussion with a clerk who insists on charging me for a day, given my late arrival.

Hotels should be about the hospitality business, not pointless political statements. But, if they want to do that, they need to warn people during registration.

FourTeeFive
April 27, 2012, 08:14 PM
Hotels should be about the hospitality business, not pointless political statements. But, if they want to do that, they need to warn people during registration.

Exactly. I intend to bring this up with Hilton corporate and with the particular hotel management.

ClickClickD'oh
April 27, 2012, 08:47 PM
I don't think it meets the contrast requirements either.

You are correct, it does not. The sign must be in contrasting colors. Clear is not a color. Also, but splitting the sign into two and post one on each side of the door they have created two non-compliant signs.

Always fun for defeating 30.06 signs, check the side doors. If every public entrance does not have a compliant sign then they are all effectively unenforceable.

Oh.. and they spelled "section" wrong so it's non-compliant in that way too.

FLA2760
April 27, 2012, 09:21 PM
I don't let anyone see my firearm other than my immediate family and then only when putting it on and taking it off at night.

exavid
April 28, 2012, 02:44 AM
Ah yes, discretion is the best part of valor. What they don't see won't offend. At least that's the way I feel about it. I believe a hotel may ask a guest to leave for any reason if it comes to that. If asked and the guest refuses then it can be treated as trespassing by the law. I'd go if told I couldn't keep my firearm.

j1
April 28, 2012, 07:30 AM
Would it be illegal for a ccw holder to carry exposed in a holster? Where would I look up the answer?

newbuckeye
April 28, 2012, 07:44 AM
Besides whats been said, does anyone REALLY think a FEDERAL LEO is going to disarm and turn over control of said firearm to a CIVILIAN??

I gotta call BS on that point!

Matthew Courtney
April 28, 2012, 10:18 AM
I believe that is probably correct. If I understand the law, the hotel would be in possession of an out-of-state firearm. I believe it is a felony to receive such a firearm or to deliver it.

Interesting catch. Thank you.

So what's the law about trying to coerce someone into committing a felony?
If it is two people doing it, it is conspiracy to commit the felony, itself a federal felony. I am not sure about a single person....

FourTeeFive
April 28, 2012, 11:44 AM
Always fun for defeating 30.06 signs, check the side doors. If every public entrance does not have a compliant sign then they are all effectively unenforceable.

The other entrances to the Hampton Inn Addison do not have the sign. I'm not sure if those doors are open during the day; at night you need your room key to open them. So perhaps they aren't considered public entrances.

jrdolall
May 1, 2012, 12:12 PM
Since this thread started I have stayed at 4 Hilton properties in FL and GA. None of them have any signage relating to firearms. I will be in another hotel tonight and will look around. I am flying today so will not have any firearms with me.

theicemanmpls
May 1, 2012, 12:36 PM
I am a little confused about this thread.
The OP claims to be a LEO. He states he was dispatched to a hotel for a disturbance. His supervisor shows up. The hotel staff said one of the individuals who were arguing had a "loaded firearm" in their room. Perhaps the pistol in question had a magazine inserted. IMO, that would make it loaded.

The OP further states there were "small children in the room", and evidence of "medical marijuana".

Here is where I have a problem.
1. Disturbance with "man with a gun, and small children". Instead of calling for more backup, the OP and his supervisor debate with the staff the legality of the hotels no firearm rules?
2. Having small children in a confined space with a loaded firearm? That is a recipe for something just terrible to happen.
3. The individual in question was using marijuana. I thought it is against federal law to possess a firearm and use marijuana. Even with a note from a doctor, or your mother.

Just saying,,,,,,

gym
May 1, 2012, 02:22 PM
I can't see giving my gun, to a strange person not known by me. That would be more of a problem IMO, if someone got hold of the gun who had access to the safe, than letting the guest, "who has a license" "I assume", retain custody of the weapon. I don't pretend to know that state law, but giving your gun to someone you don't even know can legally have a gun, seems kind of rekless. If they can have your gun, then you can have your gun, either that or no one gets to be custodian or have access to it. This of course would cause them to ask the guest to leave, which would end up in a nice lawsuit, which is probablly what they are trying to avoid. It sounds like a lot of nonsense.

ClickClickD'oh
May 1, 2012, 10:14 PM
The OP further states there were "small children in the room", and evidence of "medical marijuana".

Are we reading the same OP?

Agsalaska
May 1, 2012, 11:42 PM
deleted

Agsalaska
May 1, 2012, 11:44 PM
I am a little confused about this thread.
The OP claims to be a LEO. He states he was dispatched to a hotel for a disturbance. His supervisor shows up. The hotel staff said one of the individuals who were arguing had a "loaded firearm" in their room. Perhaps the pistol in question had a magazine inserted. IMO, that would make it loaded.

The OP further states there were "small children in the room", and evidence of "medical marijuana".

Here is where I have a problem.
1. Disturbance with "man with a gun, and small children". Instead of calling for more backup, the OP and his supervisor debate with the staff the legality of the hotels no firearm rules?
2. Having small children in a confined space with a loaded firearm? That is a recipe for something just terrible to happen.
3. The individual in question was using marijuana. I thought it is against federal law to possess a firearm and use marijuana. Even with a note from a doctor, or your mother.

Just saying,,,,,,

Wow. I am trying to come up with a response to that but keep deleting what I post. Are you an IEO(Internet Enforcement Officer). If you are then I thank you for your service to our internet. :banghead:

theicemanmpls
May 2, 2012, 01:09 AM
This is what I read.

Post 1 by the OP. He is a LEO, and has been dispatched to the DT hotel for a disturbance with at least one of the guests. The OP arrives on scene and is informed by DT staff that the occupants in one of the rooms are having a loud dispute. The OP is joined on scene by his supervisor and they are told by the DT staff that there is a loaded pistol in the room.

Post 34 by the OP. The OP and his supervisor are informed this is a DOMESTIC dispute. There is a firearm and small children present. It is my understanding that in this situation typically more then two officers are dispached. Perhaps where the OP works, two officers are used. The OP states the party having the dispute had left the property. I can only assume, that the OP and his supervisor went to the room in question and determined the party in question was gone

The staff of the DT informed the OP that the party in question that the person(s) using the room were using medical marijuana. Hope this will clear up your questions regarding my comments.

The OP in both postings was puzzled about what the DT staff said about firearms and hence the debate about hotels and firearms.


Personally, if I have a handgun on my person, or in the suitcase, it always goes into the nightstand drawer along with my car keys so I will remember to take it with upon my departure from the hotel. I could give a rats behind about what the hotels policy is. When I am in MY hotel room, it is my home away from home. Home being the key word.

Not a IEO here. I just read both of the OP's postings and making comments. Not trying to start an argument here.
:banghead:

FourTeeFive
May 2, 2012, 10:58 AM
Since this thread started I have stayed at 4 Hilton properties in FL and GA. None of them have any signage relating to firearms. I will be in another hotel tonight and will look around.

I stay in many Hilton properties per year and only saw it at the Addison location.

coloradokevin
May 2, 2012, 02:40 PM
I am a little confused about this thread.
The OP claims to be a LEO. He states he was dispatched to a hotel for a disturbance. His supervisor shows up. The hotel staff said one of the individuals who were arguing had a "loaded firearm" in their room. Perhaps the pistol in question had a magazine inserted. IMO, that would make it loaded.

The OP further states there were "small children in the room", and evidence of "medical marijuana".

Here is where I have a problem.
1. Disturbance with "man with a gun, and small children". Instead of calling for more backup, the OP and his supervisor debate with the staff the legality of the hotels no firearm rules?
2. Having small children in a confined space with a loaded firearm? That is a recipe for something just terrible to happen.
3. The individual in question was using marijuana. I thought it is against federal law to possess a firearm and use marijuana. Even with a note from a doctor, or your mother.

Just saying,,,,,,

1) I am LE. If you don't believe me, I don't care.

2) We go by the philosophy that "all weapons will be treated as if they are always loaded", for the sake of safe firearms handling. Regardless, a magazine inserted in a gun hardly proves whether a gun is loaded or not, it just demonstrates that a magazine is in the gun. Similarly, a magazine removed from a gun doesn't in any way prove that such a firearm is unloaded. As such, the only way to really tell if a firearm is loaded or unloaded is to handle it yourself.

3) I had more backup there from the outset. My sergeant showed up as a backup to my backup. My intent in this thread wasn't to debate our tactics with you; I already know how to handle such situations. Rather, my intent was to debate one specific aspect of that call that bothered me. I respond to DOMV calls daily, and armed DOMV calls every few days, on average. I didn't mention my other partner in this thread because he wasn't really involved in the discussion with the DT hotel staff (at least not the parts relevant to this post).

4) As I already said in my posts above, the subjects of this call had already departed prior to our arrival. Our "debate" with the hotel staff took a matter of mere seconds to complete, which was less than the time that it took us to walk across the lobby to the elevators with them. But, understanding a complainant's view of a situation can be an important consideration on such calls, both from an officer safety standpoint, and from the perspective of trying to keep YOUR rights protected. Believe it or not, I was once called to a home by social services merely because they were notified that a parent had been keeping a gun in his house, and also had children living there (not illegal -- how many of us here on THR do that?).

5) Medical marijuana is a touchy subject out here. It's against federal law to possess marijuana, period... with or without a note from your doctor, regardless of any other circumstances we might debate. But, the Feds have agreed not to prosecute in cases where states allow for medical marijuana, and Colorado now has medical marijuana on the books. Oh, and once again, the issue of the use of medical marijuana was merely in the form of an allegation from the hotel staff (as I said repeatedly in this thread, the involved people were gone when we got there).


So, the long and short of what I'm trying to say is that the reason I created this thread was because of the hotel staff's statement about the (alleged) blanket policy they have regarding firearms. I shared the background of my call with you merely because I wanted everyone to understand the context of the conversation I had with them. It's possible that the person in this hotel room was a bad guy who shouldn't have a firearm; it's also possible that wasn't the case. But, the alleged "policy" I was attempting to address was my concern that this hotel said that no guests (and in THEIR words that included federal Air Marshals) would be allowed to keep guns in their rooms.

coloradokevin
May 2, 2012, 02:48 PM
Since this thread started I have stayed at 4 Hilton properties in FL and GA. None of them have any signage relating to firearms. I will be in another hotel tonight and will look around. I am flying today so will not have any firearms with me.

Thanks for posting. Good to know what's being experienced elsewhere. I'm starting to think that this was a case of a security guard attempting to create policy for his hotel, probably without the knowledge of corporate management.

Agsalaska
May 2, 2012, 07:21 PM
coloradokevin,

I must commend you on an excellent response to that post. i thank you for your work as an LEO

denton
May 2, 2012, 08:43 PM
LEOs get to deal with the "interesting" segments of our society. Thankfully, they are there to do the rather thankless job.

On a lighter note, I did bounce the legal aspects of putting your firearm in the hotel safe off our state's best known firearms attorney. While he didn't expect any actual legal problems from doing so, it is a felony to deliver or receive control of a firearm across state lines, even if it is to place it in the hotel safe. If a member of the hotel staff has access to the safe and is also a prohibited person, that is a separate felony, even if you are in your own state. A suitable reply to a hotel is, "You have a Federal Firearms License then?"

I travel a lot. I never put my firearm in my checked baggage or carry in other states, though I do commonly carry while off the road. I suppose you might say that I have been hassled into submission.

To me, the moral of the story is, your hotel room is your castle as much as your regular home is. Even so, if you are going to carry, keep it out of sight. If it is out of sight, it isn't an issue. And for heaven's sake, if you don't get along with your SO at least keep it civil and quiet in public so as not to make a spectacle of yourself in front of neighbors and the police. Drugs and guns? Really, really stupid.

gym
May 2, 2012, 09:42 PM
That is kind of what I mentioned, it's just common sense. You don't know to whom you just gave access to your gun to.What would happen if it went missing or was taken by a felon, or someone who worked there, I think that it would be a mess for the hotel chain. It could end up being a major lawsuit. It's not like a piece of jewlery, or cash, it's a firearm. There must be liability on the part of the hotel, if someone was shot with that gun, it would be a bigtime mess.

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 2, 2012, 09:50 PM
Perhaps the pistol in question had a magazine inserted. IMO, that would make it loaded.

How do you know that there were rounds in the magazine?

theicemanmpls
May 2, 2012, 11:18 PM
OK,
Like the OP said, you have to open it up and look inside yourself.

I treat all firearms as if they are loaded, especially semi-auto's.

My bad for assuming the pistol had rounds in it cause their was a magazine attached and holstered.

Larry Ashcraft
May 2, 2012, 11:23 PM
Question:
How do you know that there were rounds in the magazine?
Answer:
"all weapons will be treated as if they are always loaded"

theicemanmpls
May 2, 2012, 11:30 PM
OK, my fault for reading more into the background story then the point the OP was trying to make. Sorry if I offended the OP.

The point being is someone at the DT hotel is making policy perhaps when they are not authorized to do so.

Regarding smoking pot and firearms, I do remember that form I signed when I buy each firearm from a FFL that I state I am not a user of controlled substances.

I think if a cop visits your home, and spots the grow room next to the gun safe, soon one will have a major legal problems of the federal kind.

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 3, 2012, 01:51 AM
"all weapons will be treated as if they are always loaded"

Obviously but I'm talking about the physical condition of the gun. You know, if rounds are actually in the gun.

postalnut25
May 3, 2012, 01:10 PM
1) I am LE. If you don't believe me, I don't care.

2) We go by the philosophy that "all weapons will be treated as if they are always loaded", for the sake of safe firearms handling. Regardless, a magazine inserted in a gun hardly proves whether a gun is loaded or not, it just demonstrates that a magazine is in the gun. Similarly, a magazine removed from a gun doesn't in any way prove that such a firearm is unloaded. As such, the only way to really tell if a firearm is loaded or unloaded is to handle it yourself.

3) I had more backup there from the outset. My sergeant showed up as a backup to my backup. My intent in this thread wasn't to debate our tactics with you; I already know how to handle such situations. Rather, my intent was to debate one specific aspect of that call that bothered me. I respond to DOMV calls daily, and armed DOMV calls every few days, on average. I didn't mention my other partner in this thread because he wasn't really involved in the discussion with the DT hotel staff (at least not the parts relevant to this post).

4) As I already said in my posts above, the subjects of this call had already departed prior to our arrival. Our "debate" with the hotel staff took a matter of mere seconds to complete, which was less than the time that it took us to walk across the lobby to the elevators with them. But, understanding a complainant's view of a situation can be an important consideration on such calls, both from an officer safety standpoint, and from the perspective of trying to keep YOUR rights protected. Believe it or not, I was once called to a home by social services merely because they were notified that a parent had been keeping a gun in his house, and also had children living there (not illegal -- how many of us here on THR do that?).

5) Medical marijuana is a touchy subject out here. It's against federal law to possess marijuana, period... with or without a note from your doctor, regardless of any other circumstances we might debate. But, the Feds have agreed not to prosecute in cases where states allow for medical marijuana, and Colorado now has medical marijuana on the books. Oh, and once again, the issue of the use of medical marijuana was merely in the form of an allegation from the hotel staff (as I said repeatedly in this thread, the involved people were gone when we got there).


So, the long and short of what I'm trying to say is that the reason I created this thread was because of the hotel staff's statement about the (alleged) blanket policy they have regarding firearms. I shared the background of my call with you merely because I wanted everyone to understand the context of the conversation I had with them. It's possible that the person in this hotel room was a bad guy who shouldn't have a firearm; it's also possible that wasn't the case. But, the alleged "policy" I was attempting to address was my concern that this hotel said that no guests (and in THEIR words that included federal Air Marshals) would be allowed to keep guns in their rooms.
Just to back this up- I work in a jurisdition very close to ColoradoKevin's jurisdiction. I have the ability to scan his jurisdictions channels on the radio in my car, which I sometimes do, since I still hear my own dispatch on my packset.

There are several domestics in his area. They seem to be called out all the time, and backup is always sent. Supervisors are dispatched quite often as well. Medical Marijuana is a touchy subject in the area as well. Many folks believe it gives them a license to be stoned everywhere, even though it must be done in the license holders residence only.

As a final, I notice that there are always citizens that know more about the law than I do. Or at least they want to tell me that. Sounds like this was happening in ColoradoKevin's case too.

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