Federal... FAIL!


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SpringfieldArmoryXD
April 23, 2012, 02:27 PM
Picked up 3 boxes of my favorite range ammunition Sunday, Federal Champion 9mm. The first box was all good as usual. Second box, start loading mags I notice black circle flakes on the bottom. Looked like gun powder flakes. I was puzzled, but the rounds visual looked good so I kept loading. Didn't end up finishing that box, but when I got home I was checking how many I had left in the box and took the plastic holder all the way out and found this.. I spy?... A missing primer! The flakes on the bottom made sense now, I was just very surprised first time I have seen this with any ammo I have ever bought. Maybe some would actually consider that lucky being my first? What have your experiences been, is this out of the norm? I don't think this will stop me from buying Federal Champ, I still think I like it better then the Winchester White box. But hell, maybe in a few months I'll just be happy to get whatever is available, the shelves were already looking pretty thin.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j347/TheHighRoadDude/Fed2.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j347/TheHighRoadDude/Fed3.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j347/TheHighRoadDude/Mobile%20Uploads/0423121307.jpg

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steveno
April 23, 2012, 02:46 PM
send an e-mail to Federal with the lot # and you will probably send you a new box or two of ammo. they did that for me when I had some trouble with their 22 automatch ammo. they were very helpful about it

tyeo098
April 23, 2012, 02:50 PM
Whoa. Dude. Macro mode.

I counted a box of federal 500 22lr and there was only 437.
They mailed me another box of 500 for free. o.O Shut me up!

SpringfieldArmoryXD
April 23, 2012, 02:53 PM
There are a several different types of numbers on the box. How do you know which one is the "lot" number?

EDIT: Went on Federals website and answered my lot # question. I was also able to find the, "Report a problem with a shell" phone and email address. Tried to call, no answer... go figure. But I did send an email detailing what was wrong with the case, and the lot number, and a picture.

CountryUgly
April 23, 2012, 03:09 PM
That's a new one on me.

ldsgeek
April 23, 2012, 03:12 PM
It could have been worse, a primer with no powder.

CoRoMo
April 23, 2012, 03:12 PM
...is this out of the norm?
No, not really. Buy enough factory ammo and you should end up with an improperly loaded round. It doesn't happen often enough to catch one in every box, much less every lot; but factory ammo is churned out at such volume that these issues simply can't always be caught, especially on the cheap stuff.

stumpers
April 23, 2012, 03:15 PM
Last year I bought a box of Federal Champion .45 ACP that contained both a bullet that was improperly formed (looked like a gash on the side of bullet) and another that was seated twice as far as the rest.

I have not purchased Champion since. I have had zero issues with Federal's 9mm Hydra-Shoks, but at $1.15 per round there must be decent quality control.

TNboy
April 23, 2012, 04:28 PM
Yeah most people don't use Hydra-Shoks as practice ammo.

stumpers
April 23, 2012, 04:33 PM
Yeah most people don't use Hydra-Shoks as practice ammo.

So? I was simply comparing two Federal products from a quality control perspective.

bannockburn
April 23, 2012, 05:37 PM
I have bought quite a bit of Federal Champion centerfire ammo over the last few years but haven't had any quality control issues to speak off. The last centerfire ammo that I had a few problem rounds with was Winchester.

Lex Luthier
April 23, 2012, 06:00 PM
Unexpected poop happens. That was probably not the last box in your load out closet and you will probably get more of the exact kind the next time it's on sale.

If the world were perfect, it would be boring. I think it's a rather typical example of how standardized processes can go wrong. I had some .40 JHP my pal made and he missed the powder in one of them. I tossed it at him later, and asked if that was what he had in mind.

FruitCake
April 23, 2012, 06:07 PM
It happens.
I check every single round I use for self defense.
No such thing as perfection anything.

Now what about pictures of good ammunition. !!

jerkface11
April 23, 2012, 06:08 PM
Is this why factory ammo is better for self defense?

tyeo098
April 23, 2012, 06:50 PM
Is this why factory ammo is better for self defense?
It's because a multi-million dollar company is less likely to screw up that you are.

HB
April 23, 2012, 07:03 PM
It's because a multi-million dollar company is less likely to screw up that you are.


Maybe more likely than you, but not me. I have a lot of confidence that my reloads will be more reliable and accurate on average than similarly priced factory ammo. Every Mcdouble I've eaten tasted like garbage, I wonder why a burger off my grill tastes so much better...:D

To the OP, I've never had any dud rifle or pistol rounds but I have had exactly 2 shotshells with missing primers. Both were Winchester SuperSpeed dove loads.

HB

buck460XVR
April 23, 2012, 07:29 PM
Is this why factory ammo is better for self defense?


It's because a multi-million dollar company is less likely to screw up that you are.

Those that preach "factory ammo only for SD/HD" have reasons other than reliability and accuracy. Mainly verified and proven ballistics/loads for GSR evidence.

Most factory ammo is just that....... factory ammo. Most cases you get what you pay for. If one wants cheap ammo for plinkin' and practice, they should expect a dud every once in a while. If one wants custom or perfect ammo, they will either have to pay dearly for it or roll it themselves.

jerkface11
April 23, 2012, 07:44 PM
Those that preach "factory ammo only for SD/HD" have reasons other than reliability and accuracy. Mainly verified and proven ballistics/loads for GSR evidence.

If it isn't reliable all the GSR evidence in the world won't keep you alive.

armoredman
April 23, 2012, 08:25 PM
bannockburn, I know what you mean, have had several failures with Winchester components, last being a brand new never fired rifle brass with a damaged neck. I tried getting their help once, was completely blown off, only reason I ever give them any money is I can't find 7.62x39mm brass easily.
I've never had a factory round missing a primer, that's a new one.

Arkansas Paul
April 23, 2012, 08:40 PM
It's because a multi-million dollar company is less likely to screw up that you are.


<Removed> they are!
My quality control is WAY more extensive than theirs. How many factory rounds do you think get individually inspected? Every single one of mine do.

epijunkie67
April 23, 2012, 09:18 PM
Several years ago I had a box of Remington .380 that fired and locked up my pistol. Turns out there was no hole drilled between the primer and the main chamber. When the primer fired it slammed back against the bolt and basically locked it closed.

I contacted them and they sent me a fresh box.

Realistically, in any manufacturing process there are going to be errors. Hopefully they will be rare but they will never be zero. As long as the company is willing to step up and make things right you can't expect perfection.

jerkface11
April 23, 2012, 09:22 PM
As long as the company is willing to step up and make things right you can't expect perfection

Unless you were depending on it to protect your life.

BSA1
April 23, 2012, 09:28 PM
Those that preach "factory ammo only for SD/HD" have reasons other than reliability and accuracy. Mainly verified and proven ballistics/loads for GSR evidence.

Poppycock!

doggy1953
April 23, 2012, 09:32 PM
I shoot Federal 45 fmj and 9mm fmj, never had a problem with any of it. Could of been that one time oops.

writerinmo
April 23, 2012, 11:15 PM
I've shot a bit of Federal, never had any problems. I won't buy Winchester 9mm in the 100 round bulk pack after two primer-only rounds in one box. Screwups are bound to happen, but until Federal and Blazer do it to me, those will be my primary target ammo.

45bthompson
April 23, 2012, 11:47 PM
There is also that prosicuter line “ He was so blood thirsty he even hand loaded his own ammunition to better kill his victims with". Not that fear of prosicutuon after I protect my family keeps me up at night.

bigfatdave
April 24, 2012, 12:56 AM
some of the comments are somewhat silly, unless the commentors are using Fed champion cheapo range plinking ammo for defensive purposes
if it had the same QC as Federal's defensive loads, you'd be paying more for it

jmstevens2
April 24, 2012, 01:09 AM
bannockburn, I know what you mean, have had several failures with Winchester components, last being a brand new never fired rifle brass with a damaged neck. I tried getting their help once, was completely blown off, only reason I ever give them any money is I can't find 7.62x39mm brass easily.
I've never had a factory round missing a primer, that's a new one.
Fiocchi I have a case of boxer Brass 124 gr.

dubya450
April 24, 2012, 04:48 AM
I have had nothing but good ammo fro federal. Even the factory seconds have always worked great and the fact that I live a half mile from the federal factory in anoka mn and have 4 buddies that work there is even better!

mickeyblueyes
April 24, 2012, 07:05 AM
If you think thats bad listen to this, I was at the range last week and was shooting my Ruger 357, I needed more ammo so I opened a new bag from lucky Gunner. Among the bullets was a $5.00 bill. I thought that was a nice gesture, when I emailed them they said they knew nothing about it. lol still funny .

Jeff F
April 24, 2012, 07:24 AM
Stuff like that happens from time to time and every once in awhile they slip through and get packaged. I have not had a round with a missing primer but have had rounds with the primer seated back wards or sideways and rounds that were deformed that would not chamber. This is a good reason to visually check every round before you load your magazine or load rounds into your firearm.

buck460XVR
April 24, 2012, 07:35 AM
If it isn't reliable all the GSR evidence in the world won't keep you alive.

I agree. That's why I use my own ammo for SD/HD.




Those that preach "factory ammo only for SD/HD" have reasons other than reliability and accuracy. Mainly verified and proven ballistics/loads for GSR evidence.


Poppycock!


If you research why those like Massad Ayoob preach factory ammo, this is one of their main points. It has little to do with "cop killer bullets" but supportive forensic evidence because factory ammo has documented loads and velocities. Again, I don't use factory ammo, I'm just stating reasoning behind those that preach using it.

fpgt72
April 24, 2012, 02:59 PM
I was out at our range when a MMTB (more money then brains) guy was just finishing up he had shot just about every type of ammo known to man...everything from .22 up to 500 S&W. Me and a frien are unpacking our stuff and I over hear "well lets get this picked up and in the trash"....I ask him....you don't want your brass....nope all yours. Buddy and I spent the next hour picking up brass.

Now where this story has something to do with this thread....he had several (not quite right) rounds that he also gave me. Some the bullet seated too deep, damaged case, bent case where the bullet went in sideways.

All of this was bulk ammo of different makes, I should have taken photos, but I went home sorted, pulled the bullets tossed the junk away and tossed the rest into their bins.

I came home with over 200 cases for .45 and 9mm over 100 of 40, 38, 38 super, 380 gave to my buddy what he needed and everyone was happy.

snakeman
April 24, 2012, 03:03 PM
I too am perturbed by federal. My savage 99 shot their ammo exceedingly well. Then they changed the recipe last year and it all went pear shaped.

SpringfieldArmoryXD
April 24, 2012, 04:22 PM
So, checked my email today and I had a response from Federal:

"Hello,

Thanks you for brining this matter to our attention. What is your address? We would like to compensate you for this incident.

Federal "


Sounds like they will take care of the issue, and some compensation sounds nice ;)

AntiSpin
April 24, 2012, 08:24 PM
A couple of years ago I opened a box of Remington CoreLokt 30-06, and found one round with a missing primer, but also no flash hole.

At least, unlike the OP, I didn't have to clean up a lot of loose powder. I thought that was rather nice of the manufacturer.

pmcjuryny
April 24, 2012, 08:33 PM
Ducked up round are never good but I'd rather have no primer than the wrong charge out seating depth

Sent from my Droid incredible using Swype

snakeman
April 24, 2012, 08:46 PM
^^^^boy am I thankful you have autocorrect or that would be illegible!

Stump Water
April 24, 2012, 08:54 PM
There is also that prosicuter line “ He was so blood thirsty he even hand loaded his own ammunition to better kill his victims with".

Do you have any supporting facts or documentation for this or are you just parroting the urban legend?

igousigloo
April 24, 2012, 09:01 PM
To each their own. If it was me I would take it home, knock the bullet out, put a primer in it. powder back in, reseat the bullet and go on. I have made a few mistakes in my life also.

pmcjuryny
April 24, 2012, 11:25 PM
^^^^boy am I thankful you have autocorrect or that would be illegible!

Apparently auto correct doesn't like four letter words

Sent from my Droid incredible using Swype

Fishslayer
April 24, 2012, 11:26 PM
You left the range with leftover ammo?:confused:

roadchoad
April 25, 2012, 01:17 PM
So, checked my email today and I had a response from Federal:

"Hello,

Thanks you for brining this matter to our attention. What is your address? We would like to compensate you for this incident.

Federal "


Sounds like they will take care of the issue, and some compensation sounds nice

Of course they'd like to compensate you now, so that if you use the ammo and hurt yourself or damage your equipment, they are not liable. That's business law 101. You can't go for more damages once you have accepted their money and settled the matter.

It is good that they are upfront about it though, rather than beating about the bush.

dubya450
April 25, 2012, 02:01 PM
Roadchoad, I think by compensation they probably mean sending a new box or two of ammo. But i could be wrong.

Certaindeaf
April 25, 2012, 02:19 PM
^
True, but what Roadchoad said is also true.

Certaindeaf
April 25, 2012, 02:26 PM
Acceptance of any consideration is one of the three main aspects of a contract/agreement.

45bthompson
April 25, 2012, 03:31 PM
I guess I am parroting the urban legend. If there was a time to do that wouldn't this be it? Besides I have always been fond of urban legends.

Certaindeaf
April 25, 2012, 03:33 PM
^
Do what?

45bthompson
April 25, 2012, 03:39 PM
I don't care about it enough to look for supporting facts. As usual any advice of mine you find on a forum is worth what you pay for it.

Bill2e
April 25, 2012, 07:13 PM
My uncle bought a few boxes and had 4 different overall case leagths in the box. Very bad. He called federal & they told him to pound sand. Very bad customer service.

Dentite
April 25, 2012, 11:11 PM
Opened a box of cheap Rem UMC ammo (didn't have enough brass to start reloading for that caliber yet) and one round had a primer seated in sideways and was partially crushed.

A few are always going to get through I guess.

Weevil
April 25, 2012, 11:39 PM
I've got a Springfield XD40 that will shoot any brand of ammo except Federal.

Load it up with Federal and it's a jam-o-matic. For whatever reasons the cartridges jam up hard as they're going into the chamber, and it can only be cleared by dropping the mag. Does it with all my mags and usually 4 or 5 times per mag and it can happen with any cartridge from the first to the last.

No problems at all with any other brands.

Never bothered to do any case measurements or anything like that, just stopped buying Federal for it and have shied away from it in other calibers too.

evan price
April 26, 2012, 05:43 AM
With any mass produced article there will be a certain percentage of defective items. Considering how many billions of rounds of ammo are produced finding a dud now and then is not only possible, it's a certainty.

Stuff happens. Nobody got hurt. It wouldn't have hurt your gun or you.
You're out about a dime.
Federal might buy you a new box of ammo.

Now you have a good story to tell on the Internet.

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