This is what "innovation" for firearms is now a days...


PDA






TITAN308
April 23, 2012, 07:35 PM
Yea its a bit personal and it hurts when I get some heat for my, lack of a better description, 'unique' project and it gets boos and snickers.

Here is you average run of the mill announcement when it comes to a new product,

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/04/24/american-tactical-imports-head-down-hd-f-ar-stock/


American Tactical Imports / Head Down HD-F AR stock

American Tactical Imports are distributing the new Head Down HD-F AR stock. I like the design of the curvy cheek rest combined with an angular lower. The stock is clearly inspired by other popular AR-15 stock but lack features such as storage compartments, no doubt to avoid patent issues. It will be available in black or flat dark earth with an MSRP of $109.

http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/v_7_revb_p_4-tfb.jpg




Lets not forget the other thread where I shared a companies new "innovation" of an factory A2 stock with a mono-pod built in for $889.00

Maybe I should just take my project and use cheap plastic, slap some zombie stickers on it and sell it to TAPCO. They could sell it for $3,000 and if I got 20% royalties I'd be happy.

/rant

Scuse' me while I go cry in the fetal position. :banghead:

If you enjoyed reading about "This is what "innovation" for firearms is now a days..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Certaindeaf
April 23, 2012, 07:44 PM
Put a skull on it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XM3vWJmpfo&feature=player_detailpage

BerettaBob
April 23, 2012, 08:36 PM
Nah man, don't sell out like that. All those "innovations" they come up with are not worth the plastic they're made of. Its just a bunch of crap targeted at mall ninja's and the like.

TITAN308
April 23, 2012, 09:41 PM
Write the correct number on a check and you can take ownership of our schematics for a tactical plunger for all I care.

Wouldn't take just any number, but lets get realistic - I'm an average Joe - that dollar amount passes a certain threshold and I will be a sell out so fast that hipsters will make jokes about me.

BerettaBob
April 23, 2012, 11:51 PM
Well you know what they say: "Every man has his price"

TITAN308
April 24, 2012, 12:01 AM
The industry is good for guys who make accessories - look at the zombie craze, but its bad for innovation and honest to goodness new stuff.

I can see it now...

"We have invented this ultra light weight game changing industry setting standard free float tube. Its just like our first model, but this time you get SQUARE cut outs for your rails instead of OVALS. Oh yea, are you as excited as us?! See you at SHOT SHOW 2013!"

gp911
April 24, 2012, 10:05 AM
LoL at the hipster comment... Take a new road, tacticool is so 2011, time for steampunk ARs! Get some old brass gauges, copper coils, vacuum tubes, etc and you're in the money. Cha. Ching.

Buck Kramer
April 24, 2012, 10:37 AM
The only thing I consider "new" anymore is when a company reworks the overall function of a firearm. There are several examples like the Remington model 8 "The recoil reloads it!" or the Kriss "V" action. Other than that, just an add on.

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 24, 2012, 10:57 AM
Looks kind of like a knockoff of the Magpul MOE stock, for almost double the price.

Ryanxia
April 24, 2012, 11:12 AM
That's how technology goes sometimes. It grows by leaps and bounds until it kind of hits a brick wall. Eventually we'll find a way through the brick wall and break into something that revolutionizes firearms, something that will open up a lot of new possibilities (like the cartridge ammo did or the semi-auto).

It's funny though that historically war has been the driving factor of new firearms inventions, but in modern warfare the individual firearm is taking a back seat to new drones, bombs, devices, etc.

I'll give it another 5 years and if nothing good comes up I'll do it. :D

TITAN308
April 24, 2012, 11:12 AM
Looks kind of like a knockoff of the Magpul MOE stock, for almost double the price.

Look at the design of the skull - looks very similar to another design... hmm :)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2760/4478023756_0bfa663f7c.jpg

Look at the lines of the design.

Companies like this make me sick. I dunno if Magpul got their ideas from somewhere, but companies like the in the OP live off the work of others.

People should not support this crap.

45_auto
April 24, 2012, 11:41 AM
I personally find a knock-off plastic stock about as innovative as a weighted-down AR platform benchrest rifle .....

TITAN308
April 24, 2012, 11:46 AM
Well its a good thing there is a whole lot more to it than just a weighted shroud. But you knew that.

1/10

mrvco
April 24, 2012, 11:57 AM
I'll hold out for real innovation... "The Limited Zombie Edition -Auto-penned by Robert Rodriguez".

TITAN308
April 24, 2012, 11:59 AM
Would be nice to see a some belt fed receivers hit the market. More companies offering side charging receivers, cause right now there are so few they are asking absurd pricing.

crracer_712
April 24, 2012, 12:11 PM
I don't get it. It's another variant of a collapsible butt stock. I like it, MSRP seems a little high, but I still like it. It has built in cheek rests that flare out more in the front. I donít recall the MOE having built in cheek rests, I have two and neither of them do.

Does this make me a mall ninja cuz I like it? What is a mall ninja anyway?

Bubbles
April 24, 2012, 12:24 PM
The only thing I consider "new" anymore is when a company reworks the overall function of a firearm.
The problem here is that our federal laws make it extremely risky to invest in these types of innovations.

TITAN308
April 24, 2012, 12:28 PM
Its not really that anyone is saying Magpul did it first, I think the point is this design (and many others) have been re-hashed over and over.

The main differences are usually are only minor, enough to cover them from a infringement lawsuit. Like in one instance the cheek shelf will be slightly different in shape. In other instances a hand guard will have different patterns cut out of it.

Pistol Grips and Vert Grips are one of the worst offenders. There are like 100 pistol and vert grips out there. Really? How much unique features can you squeeze into one of those things?

snakeman
April 24, 2012, 12:33 PM
Feel Better? I guess you haven't caught on to the savage accutrigger and all it's copies yet? I believe the newest "game changer" trigger is on the ruger american.

Rail Driver
April 24, 2012, 12:36 PM
Well, as long as people keep buying (insert knockoff or original product here), the manufacturers will keep making them, distributors will keep distributing, and retailers will keep selling them. Stifle that and then we're left with 3 overpriced companies making progressively cheaper and lower quality junk. I think the stock in the OP is overpriced, but has a smoother overall look than the Magpul MOE or CTR stock that it's obviously a copy of. I never cared for stocks with those big fat cheek rests, so you'll never see one of those on my rifle, even if they cut the price in half.

If you don't like the product, don't buy it - If you don't like it because it's a copy of someone else's product, then either don't buy it, or make one that's not a copy.

mac66
April 24, 2012, 12:37 PM
Innovation in firearms has pretty much reached it's zenith decades ago. It's pretty much all about aesthetics now. There really is only so many ways to package and fire a metallic cartridge. Change the color, change the shape a little but you basically have the same thing we were using 100+ years ago.

TITAN308
April 24, 2012, 12:41 PM
Ah, found what I was looking for...

Top to bottom are the hunter stock ($649)
Tactical Stock ($889, includes adjustable cheek-piece)
Picatinny Rail Bipod ($229).

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg607/scaled.php?server=607&filename=hindsbipods698x900.jpg&res=landing

TITAN308
April 24, 2012, 12:49 PM
If you don't like the product, don't buy it - If you don't like it because it's a copy of someone else's product, then either don't buy it, or make one that's not a copy.

Yea, no ones debating a free market. Actually most will acknowledge these companies are making big bucks in this economy. Just a small rant on my end because if I wanted to I'm sure I could hop on the whole zombie train and make at least a few bucks.

I'm getting the feeling the more serious stuff will put it out of the price range that most of these companies cater to. So basically it boils down to principals vs. excess cash. Tough decision. lol :(

45_auto
April 24, 2012, 12:50 PM
Why does it bother you that more than one company makes a similar article?

Why do you use a knock-off of an Armalite in your project? You really believe that DPMS invented the AR15 platform?

TITAN308
April 24, 2012, 01:20 PM
45_auto you need to learn to be more subtle. Its so blatant I can't take it seriously.

Still a 1/10 rating.

Sorry. You should probably hone your skills on BARFCOM being attempting again.

snakeman
April 24, 2012, 01:44 PM
Oh boy...here it goes!

Sam1911
April 24, 2012, 01:51 PM
45_auto seems to have missed the point of the thread, which was that much that is called "innovation" really is just very minor modifications to already existing items.

Titan has a project going on which is much more "outside-the-box" than this ... but that carries with it the fact that it is less readily accepted by folks than some "new" thing they've more or less seen before.

45_auto
April 24, 2012, 02:29 PM
Sorry, I have just as hard a time calling an AR15 with some weights and liquid cooling "innovative" as I do a re-designed plastic stock.

Both concepts are well over a century old. Sticking them on an AR15 may give you a good feeling, and you may like machining metal instead of molding plastic, but complaining about somebody else's product doesn't make what you're doing any less irrelevent.

Maybe I should just take my project and use cheap plastic, slap some zombie stickers on it and sell it to TAPCO. They could sell it for $3,000 and if I got 20% royalties I'd be happy.

I get the impression that you're disappointed that no one wants to give you big bucks for your hobby project.

You may find this old American Rifleman article on innovation in the firearms industry enlightening:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/BlogEntry.aspx?id=1846&cid=25

From the above article:

Meanwhile, what innovations have American gun makers brought forth? Kimber has come on strong… with an upgraded 1911. That would be circa, uhm, 1911. S&W introduced its own AR15, as did Remington and Ruger. We're up to circa 1965.

And you're proposing what? A heavy, 30-40 lb weapon for stability, from muzzleloader days? And liquid cooling from a 1910 Maxim?

Maybe there's more to your project than what you're showing, is so, you're hiding it well!

TITAN308
April 24, 2012, 02:50 PM
I get the impression that you're disappointed that no one wants to give you big bucks for your hobby project.

By all means please share with the people here where you can go to place an order for something we offer. This is a common accusation I get. And each time I ask for proof. A link, an email solicitation, a PM solicitation. And guess what I never get 100% of the time?

I could however provide you screenshots of people contacting ME and me having to tell them we do not have any public offerings as of this time. But lets be honest, you are not really interested in pesky things like that.

I'm getting the feeling you come from the old generation I've bumped into on occasion who seem to get offended for no other reason than they don't like change, new, or fun stuff.

"Damn kids! Get off my lawn!"

You want to know another bizarre oddity?

100% of the people who meet me in person and see the project are polite, civil and have nice things to say about it.

Its a good 50/50 split on the internet.

Boy - that sure tells us a whole lot of what we already know; People become raving lunatics when they have a buffer of a few thousand miles between them and the person they are taking jabs at.

45_auto seems to have missed the point of the thread, which was that much that is called "innovation" really is just very minor modifications to already existing items

Careful Sam, taking internet postings for face value is a dangerous game. Didn't you know all postings have a hidden agenda? Apparently mine is to complain about lack of sales for something I don't even sell. I am a crappy salesman apparently.

Sam1911
April 24, 2012, 02:57 PM
All right... let's end there rather than see how many bouts we can go. If all of innovation is required to be completely novel, we probably won't have any at all. Everything is derivative of what came before ... somewhere, somehow.

Somebody make a stock that's 1% better than the stocks that came before? Great!

Someone makes some unusual rifle modifications that change its characteristics radically? Great!

If you enjoyed reading about "This is what "innovation" for firearms is now a days..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!