[eltigre_01]

Hey guys,

I'm looking to spend around $400 for an over-under shotgun in preparation for dove season this year. I know that these types of shotguns can go for much more, but I'd like some advice about what to look for. Any suggestions?

[snakeman]

I love my stoeger and have heard good things about academy's house brand yildiz. That said I would not hesitate to get a stoeger.

[Old Unc']

there are NO decent new O/U's for $400 bucks. Look to an autoloader, like the Beretta 3901. Or, pony up twice as much dough for a used Beretta, Browning or SKB O/U...

[snakeman]

^^^^B.S. What he's saying is there are no o/u's good enough for gun snobs for $400.

[wlewisiii]

Take your money and lurk at gun shows. You'll be more likely to find an old SxS than a O/U in that price range but still that's about the only way I can think of for you to find a good shotgun for that little amount of money.

Also check small out of the way gun shops. I got lucky at one the other day and found an Ithaca pump for $150.

[oneounceload]

^^^^B.S. What he's saying is there are no o/u's good enough for gun snobs for $400

Incorrect, It takes a lot of hand labor to regulate barrels properly and have triggers that actually work - that means $400 buys you junk that will break - especially if you shoot even the normal amount of ammo at dove.

$600 buys the Beretta 3901 semi - a gun that will last and not break

Once you've spent $400 three times, and dealt with all of that hassle and frustration, you could have bought a decent used Browning or Beretta O/U - whose barrels actually DO shoot to the same POI/POA, and whose triggers actually work and don't feel like someone threw sand in the grease

[drsfmd]

Old Unc and Oneounceload are correct. There's no GOOD O/U available new for anywhere near $400, and it has nothing to do with snobbery.

[spazzymcgee]

My Stoeger Uplander has lasted 300 rounds without a problem. That's not saying much, but the fact that my friend has 6000+ rounds out of his Condor definately does. He shoots in trap competitions, and practices with this stoeger all the time. That says plenty enough for me, considering that I know I'll never shoot that much out of any shotgun. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a stoeger.

[Old Unc']

snakeman, 1oz and I are the furtherest thing from snobs. I don't want to see somebody waste hard earned cash. For around $500 you can buy a great gun like the Beretta 3901 autoloader. I'd love to have one...

[oneounceload]

My wife has the newest gun in the house - the A400. I just shot in my state sporting clays championship with my 18 yo Browning that has about 200,000 rounds through it - hardly a gun snob - did pretty good too - earned enough punches to move up yet another class. This gun has had the springs and firing pins replaced - once...........that's it

When your friend's Stoeger gets there without any issues, let me know

[wlewisiii]

My Stoeger broke the stock on the first two rounds I fired through it. Big crack in the grip. I sold it and currently have an old Stevens 315 "Ranger" from the '20's in 12 & an Ithaca 37 pump in 16 instead. Both are far better guns and, given the market right now, were far cheaper than the Stoeger. That's why I'll keep looking at places like the VFW middle of the week one night gunshow or "grampa's gun shop" and find old reliables instead.

Your milage will, of course, vary.

[Old Unc']

Ithaca Model 37 in 16! Sweet... :)

[chas08]

I'm looking to spend around $400 for an over-under shotgun
You might have to put a couple of hundred more with it to buy NIB, but Lanber O/U's are a lot of gun for the money. I've even heard on this website from a moderator, that they are used as rental guns at some gun ranges. I've owned one for 10+ years without so much as a hiccup. But then I only hunt from September to February. I get no pleasure out of shooting clay after clay after clay. I get bored with it. I'd rather spend Clay game money on fishing since I can do either for a day for about the same price.

[Old Unc']

Lanber is a pretty good option for $800 new. Forgot about them...

[drsfmd]

*BUT* if you're going to drop $800 on a no-name new O/U, isn't it much wiser to buy a used gun from well known brand name with a good track record? Used Beretta, Browning, and SKB guns surface all the time in the $800 range.

[Ryanxia]

I don't know much about O/U's but I saw 2 different Stoeger used one's (a 12ga & a 20ga) both in great shape for $375ish. (Pretty sure they were used, maybe not).

Anyway good luck to ya, check gunbroker maybe too?

[drsfmd]

I don't know much about O/U's

If you did, you would know how truly awful the Stoeger is.

Someone above commented about how a Stoeger has gone 6000 rounds... that's a good month for a serious skeet or trap shooter. Shooting doves in Argentina that would be a good couple of days.

They just aren't built to last.

[chas08]

Lanber is a pretty good option for $800 new I paid $500+/- for mine when I bought it. they were in CDNN catalog a few months back for $600+/-, but that may have been the blems. Still a lot of gun for the money.

The OP specifically asked about Cheaper, lower end guns. So I assume he doesn't Have 2K to throw down on a medium priced gun or the $150-$200 to play clay games a couple of times a month.

If that's not the case, then definitely save your money for a medium priced gun like a Browning or Beretta. I owned a Browning Citori till the Flood of 98 decided I didn't need it anymore.

The Lanber has filled it's gap quite nicely. The chrome lined chambers and barrels are a plus the Browning didn't have. Sometimes you just have to do the best you can with what you have to spend.

[oneounceload]

6000 rounds.Shooting doves in Argentina that would be a good couple of days

That's dove shooting on a volume scale, something most folks here in the States would never experience or see

[Dave McCracken]

IMO, there's no NEW O/Us in the $400 range worth having.

However, used 101s, SKBs and Mirokus do turn up close to $400.

My excellent SKB 600 in 20 gauge was $450 out the door. That was two years past.

It's possibly the best dove gun I ever had or will have.

[jmr40]

With a $400 budget you can either buy a very good pump, or an ultra cheap O/U. I'd love to say there is a $400 double, either SXS or O/U, but there simply aren't any worth bringing home. That is not being a gun snob, but fact. Believe me I've BTDT and wasted lots of money over the years searching. Take my advice and save yourself a lot of money.

I gave up long ago and decided I wanted the best gun I could afford. I don't shoot a shotgun enough to justify the money for a quality double, but for around $400 you can get a world class pump. I chose quality.

[snakeman]

i've not had any issues with my stoeger either in fact i hit a lot better with it than i do my 870

[Sauer Grapes]

+1 for the SKB's! Try to find a used one, you'll be much better off.
I handled a couple Stoegers, wow. I hate talking bad about a gun, but wow, I was not impressed at all. Not surprised either, it was pretty bad.

[eltigre_01]

Thank you to all who have replied so far--it looks like the market is very limited for what I am asking. I won't be dove hunting on the scale like that of Argentina, but rather in my home state of AZ. There are plenty of gun shows to attend out here, and I'm fine with a reliable old shotgun (buying new isn't of importance). From what I have read so far, many of you have offered SKB and Lanber as reliable options that I might go with. I hear a lot of mixed reviews about the Stoeger so far...sounds like a gamble.

[Hunter125]

I have looked at the Stoegers before, but the Mossberg Silver Reserve seems to fit me well. Does anybody have experience with those?

[jbkebert]

I won a CZ 104-A mallard 20ga in a raffle. I have put somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 shells through it. The triggers were horrible when I received the gun. I sent it back to CZ who worked some sort of vodoo on them and it came back with in three weeks.

Not nearly as pretty as the high end O/U granted and I don't mind the double trigger. I have dropped alot of clays, dove, and pheasant with this gun.

[drsfmd]

I have looked at the Stoegers before, but the Mossberg Silver Reserve seems to fit me well. Does anybody have experience with those?

These are just as bad, if not worse, than the Stoeger.

Bottom line... avoid: CZ/Huglu, Stoeger/Boito/EA Armantion, Mossberg Silver Reserve/Kahn, Remington Spartan/Baikal.

You just can't get a good O/U at the price point those sell for, and the pump gun or auto you already have is probably a better choice.

I think this thread from SGW has been linked here before, but it bears repeating... it doesn't get any more true than this... http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=253741

[MCgunner]

Buddy of mine has a nice CZ O/U and has used it through 2 dove seasons, shoots a lot of dove, probably has a 3 or 4 of cases through it at least and it's still going strong. I like it, looks well made, but he gave 700 or so for it. I think it's a Turkish gun, had my doubts when he bought it, but it's proven its worth by now.

I have heard much good about the Yildiz and its warranty work is done by Briley near Houston. However, the things just don't fit me. Fit is important. I don't own a O/U as yet, may someday, have a couple of SxS working guns that didn't cost that much, 300 for the Spartan, and it's a good shooter. It's a might simpler, though, having twin triggers and extractors. I've got several cases of dove loads through that thing since I got it. I love the way it points and shoots, deadly. I'm not in a big rush to get a O/U at this point. I think if I get one in the future, it'll likely be a Browning. I like the Citori. Yeah, I know, it's heavy, so what? For dove hunting and waterfowl, that can be a good thing. I'm not a quail hunter and that's the only legal upland game in my state. I can't eat clays so I don't shoot 'em.

[drsfmd]

Buddy of mine has a nice CZ O/U and has used it through 2 dove seasons, shoots a lot of dove, probably has a 3 or 4 of cases through it at least and it's still going strong. I like it, looks well made, but he gave 700 or so for it. I think it's a Turkish gun, had my doubts when he bought it, but it's proven its worth by now.

We have VERY different standards. 4 cases is only 1000 rounds. I wouldn't even call a good gun fractionally on the way to being broken in after a mere 1000 rounds, much less declare it to have passed the durability test.

Durability is measured in tens of thousands of rounds...

There was a time, a few years ago, when I was shooting 60,000 skeet targets a year. I still have that shotgun, and I would CONSERVATIVELY estimate that I've shot 800,000 rounds with it. I've had one hammer replaced, and set of firing pins about 50,000 rounds ago, and a few springs changed when they already had it apart for the firing pins. THAT is reliability...

[MtnSpur]

If $400 is your TOP end of the budget (some folks just have these pesky budgets yanno) one can occassionally find a decent used O/U at a gun show (usually prior to entering :) ). That said I wanted a cheap O/U a few years ago and got a CZ Canvasback O/U that's powdered plaentyof clays without a hiccup. Was a bit stiff on break when I first got it but after a good cleaning and grease on the knuckles it loosened up nicely. Got it through CDNN.
To qualify I've owned Ithaca, Remington, Mossberg and Beretta shotguns and while the CZ is in no way comparable in quality it's still taking a regular diet of clays 2 years later. Just my .02 and worth what you paid for it. :)

[chas08]

Durability is measured in tens of thousands of rounds...

There was a time, a few years ago, when I was shooting 60,000 skeet targets a year. I'm not sure I've shot 60,000 shotshells in my lifetime. But then I'm only 56 and I didn't get started till I was 10.

I average 750 -1000 rounds a year total for my annual take of Doves, Ducks, & Geese these days. The two to three hundred doves I take a season accounts for the lions share of rounds expended. I guess by your standards, I could own a gun 30 years and it still would not have proven itself durable.

You were right about VERY different standards. Just like the guys with Perazzis and Krieghoffs who think the guys with Brownings and Berettas wasted their money.

[rajb123]

I was 30 before I could afford a quality O/U - a Beretta 12ga. which is still have at age 56. Now I own 2 O/Us, and two SxSs.

Before that, I used a cheap pump - Mossberg 500.

Don't buy cheap guns, you will only be wasting your $.

[MCgunner]

We have VERY different standards. 4 cases is only 1000 rounds. I wouldn't even call a good gun fractionally on the way to being broken in after a mere 1000 rounds, much less declare it to have passed the durability test.

Durability is measured in tens of thousands of rounds...

There was a time, a few years ago, when I was shooting 60,000 skeet targets a year. I still have that shotgun, and I would CONSERVATIVELY estimate that I've shot 800,000 rounds with it. I've had one hammer replaced, and set of firing pins about 50,000 rounds ago, and a few springs changed when they already had it apart for the firing pins. THAT is reliability...

Well, good on ya, but I don't waste my time or precious money on stuff I can't eat and shooting doves, most shooting I get, I'd have to live in Argentina to shoot that much in two seasons. I'd venture to say, MOST folks are with ME on this. Damned few shoot a bazillion rounds a year. Most are just bird hunters like me. That may not be the case on a given gun board, but it is nation wide. So, I don't think a hot shoe skeet shooter is relevant to MY needs. The OP can make his mind up for himself on this one if he spends all day 24/7 on the skeet range.

[PJR]

I'd venture to say, MOST folks are with ME on this.
I'm not with you. I doubt my hunting gun shot a flat of shells last year most of which was for practice. But I prefer to use good gear I can rely on and don't cheap out on the lowest price I can find. Quality gear costs money. Crap gear lets you down, most often at the worst possible moment and then teaches you the lesson that you should have bought quailty in the first place.

[oneounceload]

I'm not with you. I doubt my hunting gun shot a flat of shells last year most of which was for practice. But I prefer to use good gear I can rely on and don't cheap out on the lowest price I can find. Quality gear costs money. Crap gear lets you down, most often at the worst possible moment and then teaches you the lesson that you should have bought quailty in the first place.

+1 - buy quality once, cry once - buy crap, pay over and over


Well, good on ya, but I don't waste my time or precious money on stuff I can't eat and shooting doves, most shooting I get, I'd have to live in Argentina to shoot that much in two seasons. I'd venture to say, MOST folks are with ME on this. Damned few shoot a bazillion rounds a year. Most are just bird hunters like me. That may not be the case on a given gun board, but it is nation wide. So, I don't think a hot shoe skeet shooter is relevant to MY needs. The OP can make his mind up for himself on this one if he spends all day 24/7 on the skeet range.

Right, nice try at making snide comments - but you have enough time for almost 20,000 posts - maybe you should try shooting some clays - it really is a lot of fun. Buying a crap gun, even if you do not shoot as much as a target shooter still sucks when you are out in the dove field and your gun goes "click" because something cheap broke

[jgh4445]

Do I have time to get some popcorn before the mod locks this one down?

[eltigre_01]

I wouldn't be shooting anywhere near 800,000 rounds, but I would frequent the skeet range about once a month, maybe a little more. It looks as though CZ might be an option, but I did find a reasonably priced Lanbar on CDNN. It's a little outside my price range, but my hunt isn't until October so I can save up.

[icanthitabarn]

I found a Charles Daly from 1980, it was $400. It was made in Italy by, more than likely, Beretta. The Miroku made ones are a bit more.

[snakeman]

snobby, snobby, snobby, snobby. Oh well, not my problem. This dove season I'll just sit back, crack open a cold cooler inhabitant and get my limit with my stoeger uplander.

[MCgunner]

Right, nice try at making snide comments - but you have enough time for almost 20,000 posts - maybe you should try shooting some clays

Why? I shoot fine on birds. I have shot clays informally, just not going to dump 60K rounds at 'em in a year, not my thing. We're moving, i''m retired, getting a house in Barksdale, Texas. Well, I say we are, we're going through the paperwork, gonna sell here. Now, Edwards county population is something over 2K people, the WHOLE FRIGGIN' COUNTY, ROFL. It's kinda like expecting there to be a sporting clays range on mars. It can be there if you build it for yourself. I'm moving there BECAUSE of the sparse human population, actually, and all the outdoors things to do there. It's some of the best hunting around, good fishing there, lots of pretty scenery and twisty roads when I wanna get out on my little SV650S. I'm going to have plenty reason to get up every morning there. There is no gun range anywhere up there that I can find. Until I can get my place sold on the coast and buy some land up there, I ain't sure where I'll shoot my rifles and pistols. That's gonna be a bummer, especially if I can't play with my cap and ball revolvers.

And, I appreciate "quality" shotguns, but there's a limit. I won't take a nice wood/blued Browning, let alone a Purdy, into the salt marsh unless I could get it camoed and put plastic stocks on it. And, a gun out there HAS to have a sling on it. I was putting out deeks once, laid my Mossberg over some salt grass in an attempt to keep it out of the water, was 20 yards in front of it in the pitch dark and got walked up on by a hog that HAD to be 400 lbs. He walked right up in the pothole with me before he realized I was there, no more'n 15 yards from me and me mired in muck 20 yards from my gun. He went on his way when I screamed at him, but I sling my shotgun with 2 rounds in the magazine now when tossing out the deeks. It's easier walking with marsh chair banging into my slung shotgun and my decoy bag on my back if I have it slung, too, especially when I'm carrying a limit of birds on the strap. And, then, there's times I hunt across Buffalo Lake and use the kayak, sling required. I'm going to keep using my Mossberg out there, has held up for 20 years and I don't really care how many scars are in its camo paint. :D


The little Spartan, I've said before, I bought it for one purpose, to break down and stash in saddle bags for dove hunting trips. I have a college buddy that farms north of Waco and we get together every year to hunt doves at his place. I often take a motorcycle and the little Spartan breaks down saddle bag size. I've taken to the thing, though, and prefer it to my Winchester 1400 for doves in certain situations, but it'll also reach out there on long passing shots, just the 12 does that a little easier.

None of my guns are expensive guns, but I've had a few of 'em a very long time and they all still work and I'm sure my SIL will like 'em in a few years when I'm gone. I don't shoot clays and don't wear my shotguns that fast. I like 'em, I bought 'em for me, didn't really buy 'em for your approval.

[chas08]

Buying a crap gun, even if you do not shoot as much as a target shooter still sucks when you are out in the dove field and your gun goes "click" because something cheap broke I know that feeling. Learned it on a benelli sbe1, twice about 3 years apart, broken firing pin each time. A cheap part that shut down two goose hunts. I'll never own another benelli product.

[MCgunner]

I've had the Mossy stick a 3" Winchester Hi Speed Xpert steel load quite often, stopped using 'em. I'd have to pull the barrel off and get the shell out with my multitool. It peeved me when I had to do this, but I got back in action. I switched to 2 3/4" high speed Xpert and it works 100 percent, go figure. It kills ducks just as dead and works in my 2 3/4" Winchester on the rare occasion I wanna use that gun on ducks. I love using it, but it's wood/blued steel and doesn't have a sling, not very duck marsh friendly.

Anyway, that was ammo related. I've found a little tackle shop in Fulton, Texas, on the way to the duck marsh from Corpus, that has all manor of duck hunting supplies (sort of the thing, down here) and stocks Kent Fasteel. I'm going to pick some up sometime, probably next season, in 2 3/4" and try it out.

In 20 years, this is the ONLY problem I've had with the Mossberg 500. I've not had any problems with any of my other "cheap crap".

[mgregg85]

I have a Stoeger coach gun, not an O/U but similar, the quality is ok. The most common problem is soft firing pins. It's an easy $25 fix. All you need to do is remove the firing pin collars and install the new pins, 10 minute job.

http://longhunt.com/storelh/index.php?route=product/product&path=88_95&product_id=237

I only paid $200 for mine and that's about all I would consider paying, save up the extra money and buy quality.

[SleazyRider]

I see in this morning's paper that Dick's has the Savage 512 Gold Wing O/U (silver engraved receiver with gold pheasant inlays) on sale for $500.00.

Savage rifles, of course, enjoy a sterling reputation---any opinions on this particular shotgun?

[oneounceload]

Savage has this gun made for them in Turkey, IIRC - take that for what it is worth

[MtnSpur]

I'm doing some math cause it stimulates my widdle brain and if I didn't reload and bought, let's say 8 shot 12 ga cheap, at .27 a round and I shot 60,000 rounds a year that means I spent 16.2K on ammo. Ok so let's say I exaggerated and had some leftover stuff that I bought in bulk and it was only .20 a round then I only spent 12K on ammo. I reckon I'm gonna shoot less and buy more 3K guns. But I still like my cheapo Canvasback cause when I shoot skeet out back with one of the sons pullin the rope on the thrower I still have a lot of fun without worrying if anything's gonna break except my eyesight or my shoulder cause I'm old and brittle :eek:

[oneounceload]

I'm doing some math cause it stimulates my widdle brain and if I didn't reload and bought, let's say 8 shot 12 ga cheap, at .27 a round and I shot 60,000 rounds a year that means I spent 16.2K on ammo. Ok so let's say I exaggerated and had some leftover stuff that I bought in bulk and it was only .20 a round then I only spent 12K on ammo. I reckon I'm gonna shoot less and buy more 3K guns. But I still like my cheapo Canvasback cause when I shoot skeet out back with one of the sons pullin the rope on the thrower I still have a lot of fun without worrying if anything's gonna break except my eyesight or my shoulder cause I'm old and brittle

Your point is exactly what?

[MtnSpur]

Wasn't a point was a math equation meaning I can't afford to shoot 60,000 rounds a year I reckon :)

[drsfmd]

I bought in bulk and it was only .20 a round then I only spent 12K on ammo.

I was buying shells two pallets at a time, so it was a good bit less than .20 a round. Either way, your number isn't hugely off... but shooting is so theraputic that it's money well spent.

[bdjansen]

Holy crap! A lot of people on this forum have way too much money!

I imagine they are shooting all this ammo off the deck of their yacht while sailing in the Caribbean. Or at least that's what I'd be doing. :)

[eltigre_01]

Holy crap! A lot of people on this forum have way too much money!

I imagine they are shooting all this ammo off the deck of their yacht while sailing in the Caribbean. Or at least that's what I'd be doing. :)
No kidding...

[MtnSpur]

My math was to illustrate how much X number of shells could run if one was so inclined to shoot that many rounds and certainly wasn't meant as a slam to anyone. Some folks take great pleasure in skeet, I do but on a much smaller scale, and do it a LOT. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on one's take) I got hooked on collecting Colt handguns.....it isn't a cheap hobby but my sweet wife doesn't mind as long as the bills are paid :D

[MCgunner]

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on one's take) I got hooked on collecting Colt handguns....

Peacemakers, Tunderers/Lightenings, DA stuff like Snakes, 1911s???????

I think it'd be way cool to have some '73s in a collection, but I ain't got that kinda dough. Love the peacemakers, though, probably my age and all the westerns I watched on TV and the silver screen. I've got blackhawks, I've got cap and ball replicas, still need a '73 replica I guess.

[MCgunner]

Yeah, no matter what ya get the shells at, 60,000 a year is more than I could spend on ammo and reloading that much would be a 24/7 job. :eek: I do NOT find I can reload any cheaper than buying bargain ammo at Wallyworld, though. Don't bother with 12 gauge, but do have an MEC set up for my 10 gauge, can save on THAT.

But, for thems that are into it and can afford it, if it's your thing, knock yourself out. Hell, I've wasted TONS of money racing motorcycles over the years. Can't take it with ya. Everyone has his thing. I just get a little put off when someone tells my my Spartan won't hold up to the punishment. Well, I'm thinkin' it WILL hold up to MY punishment (uses). It's a well made gun, just plain as hell and sorta fugly to look at. It does what I want and if it breaks and I can't fix it, hell, it was only $299+tax. I've already gotten that much use out of it and it's still going strong. It does what I wanted it to do and more. I didn't really expect it to be such a good dove gun considering it's a 20" barrel gun and quite light and whippy. Turns out I love the thing.

I found some Spartan O/Us at Gander Mountain on sale a couple of years ago, didn't consider one after I tried mounting and swinging 'em, WAY too little stock drop for me. I'm happy with my SxS after shimming it as much as I can, which isn't as much as can be done with a pump or something. But, I've got the fit pretty decent now. That's important to me, far more important than holding up to half a million rounds, something I'll never accomplish with the years I have left. I don't worry much about buying a repeater, not about fit, know I can shim it to fit. But, a stack barrel, not so much if it's very far off. This is the same reason I didn't get a Yildiz.

[drsfmd]

Holy crap! A lot of people on this forum have way too much money!

I imagine they are shooting all this ammo off the deck of their yacht while sailing in the Caribbean. Or at least that's what I'd be doing. :)

Hardly... I work my tail off! I'm at my office by 7am at my day job, work PT at another, and own rental properties that I manage myself... I keep a schedule that most couldn't manage, and still manage to find time to shoot, hunt & fish.

To quote the late concert promoter Bill Graham "I drive a Jaguar and my family eats well because I work HARD".

Shooting is my therapy. I don't drink, I haven't been in a bar in ages, we rarely eat out, I've never been in a strip club, my daily driver is 11 years old, etc... Yes, I make a comfortable living, but it's all a matter of priorities.

[MtnSpur]

Peacemakers, Tunderers/Lightenings, DA stuff like Snakes, 1911s???????

My first Colt was a reblued '68 Trooper and I fell in love with the action so I got a Python and another Python, another Trooper but all original this time...um...some Police Positives, Police Positive Specials, couple of Frontier Scouts, Detective Special, Model 1903 & 1908 semi auto's, Officers Model Target, couple of Offical Police.....most of my collection is the swing out cylinder dating anywhere from 1912 to 1978. Nothing from 1979-present as I love the workmanship of the older Colts. I shoot em all except a NIB K series Nickel Frontier Scout.

[colbysdad]

During our winter league skeet shoot, we saw a shooter who had a Stoeger fall apart in his hands. The look on his face was priceless. The barrel fell off from the receiver.The puller told him , you get what you pay for. We have seen some good guns have problems but never fall apart. There is a lot of great used shotguns out there ( SKB, BROWNING ) for a good price. You might start by checking your local gun club ,most have a for sale by owner board. Good luck.

[oneounceload]

Originally Posted by bdjansen View Post
Holy crap! A lot of people on this forum have way too much money!

I imagine they are shooting all this ammo off the deck of their yacht while sailing in the Caribbean. Or at least that's what I'd be doing.
No kidding..

I don't do 60K, but i do manage about 15K per year - no yachts, but I do cruise the Caribbean at least once per year...... ;)

As drsfmd said - it is all about your personal priorities =- I don't play golf, I shoot

[MCgunner]

During our winter league skeet shoot, we saw a shooter who had a Stoeger fall apart in his hands. The look on his face was priceless. The barrel fell off from the receiver.The puller told him , you get what you pay for. We have seen some good guns have problems but never fall apart. There is a lot of great used shotguns out there ( SKB, BROWNING ) for a good price. You might start by checking your local gun club ,most have a for sale by owner board. Good luck.

I find this hard to believe. It just came apart, like the welds all broke or something? Really? I don't own a Stoeger, just sounds a little tall to me. I'd like to know WHAT on the gun failed so I could understand it better than "it was a cheap piece of crap and fell apart". :rolleyes: Did a weld fail on the barrel lug? Did the barrels split? Odd.....

[drsfmd]

I find this hard to believe. It just came apart, like the welds all broke or something? Really? I don't own a Stoeger, just sounds a little tall to me. I'd like to know WHAT on the gun failed so I could understand it better than "it was a cheap piece of crap and fell apart". :rolleyes: Did a weld fail on the barrel lug? Did the barrels split? Odd.....

I've seen two of them "fall apart" on the skeet field. One had the tab for the forend break loose from the barrel, the guy opened the gun and it literally fell apart. The other had the forend split and the guy was left with 4 pieces in his hands as he walked back to the clubhouse.

The Stoeger and some of the other cheap imports are simply awful guns with horrifyingly high failure rates. I've illustrated both of the "fall aparts" I've witnessed, but I can't even begin to document all of the cheap doubles I've seen break on the skeet field...

[JohnBT]

I'm still trying to figure out how any company can build an O/U for $90 more than a Remington Express Magnum pump.

Or to put it another way, for $200 less than a Wingmaster pump.

John

[JohnBT]

I checked CDNN for the Lanber prices. Even discounted they're way over $400.

2097 Sporting 639.99/679.99
2097 Sporting Lux 649.99/699.99

[oneounceload]

I'm still trying to figure out how any company can build an O/U for $90 more than a Remington Express Magnum pump.

Or to put it another way, for $200 less than a Wingmaster pump.

With the cheapest materials available using some lowly paid un to semi-skilled worker where things like health care, taxes, and unions do not exist. Of course, the quality issue has yet to resolve itself.

When it comes to guns, and especially double guns, you get what you pay for

[rajb123]

See these:

http://www.allans-armory.com/aapictures.php?ItemId=210316SG

[colbysdad]

I'm sorry Mcgunner didn't believe me. Thank you drsfmd , for letting him know that this indeed did happen. The next time I post anything I'll try and be more precise . The person who Stoeger came apart, was due to the tab on the front end. I called him today and he confirmed it. He now owns a Browning over and under.

[tlatoani]

I checked CDNN for the Lanber prices. Even discounted they're way over $400.

2097 Sporting 639.99/679.99
2097 Sporting Lux 649.99/699.99
===

Too bad they ran out of 2087s. Mine is nice enough for me. I think it was 5 or 550.

[JohnBT]

I think CDNN has some left, but they're still not a $400 gun. Well, they might be a $400 gun for $550. ;) Just kidding.

"See these:"

Spanish Azhur Armas. I wish I had some of my gun books at the office so I could look this up.

I like the part of the description about being able to read the importer's mark on the inside of the bore about halfway down and how it looks like a "small ding". But for $225 you can't lose but so much on a worn gun made in 1998.

"Repaired fore grip with some wood missing"

www.allans-armory.com/aaresult.php?PageId=68

John

edited to add: Azhur Armas, S.A. used to be Ascensio Zabala. Fwiw.

[wwace]

I'm not sure I've shot 60,000 shotshells in my lifetime. But then I'm only 56 and I didn't get started till I was 10.

I average 750 -1000 rounds a year total for my annual take of Doves, Ducks, & Geese these days. The two to three hundred doves I take a season accounts for the lions share of rounds expended. I guess by your standards, I could own a gun 30 years and it still would not have proven itself durable.

You were right about VERY different standards. Just like the guys with Perazzis and Krieghoffs who think the guys with Brownings and Berettas wasted their money.
Thing is you have to match the tool to the job, I wore out several cheaper shotguns before I tried a K80 and would have been money ahead to just start with the high quality gun to begin with. I used to shoot 300-400 rounds on league nights and up to 1000 on weekends twice a month. Maybe a lot more if we were having fun:)

[HKGuns]

If you are planning on spending less than $1000 on a new O/U STOP.

Take your money into the bathroom open the lid and flush the bills down the toilet.

Nothing snobby about it. I've seen far too many problems with economy autoloaders as well as O/U's. You'll pay for it in the field when your shotgun breaks and ruins your day.

Since Lanber is mentioned specifically, they are total pieces of CRAP. I had to loan my backup autoloader to one of my friends kids who's Lanber broke in the dove field. Luckily I always have a backup, otherwise the kids out of State hunt would have been ruined.

There should be decent, less expensive, options on the used market for you, SKB Browing, Beretta are usually always good and available used.

[MCgunner]

I'm sorry Mcgunner didn't believe me. Thank you drsfmd , for letting him know that this indeed did happen. The next time I post anything I'll try and be more precise . The person who Stoeger came apart, was due to the tab on the front end

Okay, I can see that. The piece is probably spot welded by machine or something, not sturdy.

My old Spanish Sarasqueta SxS that I bought in 1971 at Cooks Discount in Bryan, Texas going out of business sale for 100 bucks is still going. The forearm did split, hard use in the salt marshes over the years. Functionally, it never broke, but a lot of years of hard use and it's not nearly as pretty as it was when I bought it. The hand checkering is all worn, the nice walnut a little less nice, but it still shoots!

My Spartan SxS is the only other double I own and it's only about 4 years old, still going strong. But, I don't put 60K rounds a year through it. Does exactly what I wanted of it, though,for 300 bucks investment. I cannot knock it.

Stoeger, well, I've never been tempted, but I hear from CAS guys that they hold up well, why I was a little skeptical of the "fall apart" thing. These guys shoot a lot of rounds, but probably not as much as an avid clays guy does. When I shot IDPA, I only had to take along 150 rounds or so and these guys are shooting 3 guns in a match, rifle, revolver, and shotgun, so I bet their round count isn't MUCH higher than mine shooting doves in a season, but they do shoot all year I guess.

I'm not being argumentative that cheap is the way to go with a double, just that they can have merit to SOME shooters. I don't wanna toss mine, put it that way. If and when I get a stack barrel, though, I should be in the position to look for a Browning which is what I really want even if they are Japanese made. They aren't THAT expensive when you look at the price of a similar quality SxS after all.

[chas08]

Since Lanber is mentioned specifically, they are total pieces of CRAP. I think you are totally wrong. Ive owned my 2087 since late '02 or early '03, have at least 5-6 K rounds through it, all in the field hunting. I don't shoot clay, it bores me to tears after about 25 shots. I've never had a single issue.

I do feel that way somewhat about benelli sbe1's. Mine had two firing pin failures about three years apart with far less than half that round count through it since it was primarily bought to hunt waterfowl.

Which was the better value? The ten year old trouble free Lanber for $470 or the six plus year old benelli for near $1200 at the time. You can have trouble with any and all. To generalize and say they're all Crap is ...well ...wrong.

[MCgunner]

The forearm did split, hard use in the salt marshes over the years.

Thought I'd mention, there's NO PARTS for old Sarasquetas, have looked. The gun isn't worn action wise significantly, so I've thought of getting new wood made for the gun, expensive, but what I did to continue using it (the forearm split toward the rear) is drill through it and glue in a dowel, then refinish. Actually, the work isn't real noticeable, but the fore end is battered anyway.

I'm still considering getting wood made for the old gal sometime if I can find a good stock maker. I'll have it fitted, of course. :D I can still use thise old shotgun for some things even though the chokes are mod/full, use Spred-R inserts or maybe get the chokes opened up to IC/Mod. It's a project for the future. This old shotgun is superbly regulated, too. With slugs it kicks like the hammer of Thor, but it hits right together on the bull at 50 yards, like a double rifle.

[ISO1600]

~$500 SKB 600 12ga, good deal? I found one local that looks pretty sweet. Has some use marks, but felt good.

[oneounceload]

Spanish Sarasqueta SxS

Sarasqueta is a good brand that is well-made

[DM~]

If i was looking for a good O/U shotgun, i'd save until i had closer to $600.00 and find a nice used near new Valmet 412. They are good shotguns, that last and last.

DM

[PJR]

Sarasqueta is a good brand that is well-made
Depends which Sarasqueta. There was more than one. Victor, JJ and Viuday Hijos de J. J. Sarasqueta. Not all are the same. Even the Victor Sarasqueta, the best of the lot, turned out a few dogs. I know because I owned one of them. :mad:

[Dave McCracken]

ISO1600, buy it.

[dataDyne]

Baikals are built like tanks, or at least they used to be

[oneounceload]

Baikals are built like tanks, or at least they used to be

The issue with them, however, is that they also handle like one... ;)

[ISO1600]

Dave, i dont have the funds for it right now unfortunately- but i went back to check it out again:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mx5chris/tags/skb600/

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7253/7142443635_90093a7462_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mx5chris/7142443635/)
Skb 600 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mx5chris/7142443635/) by Chris.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/people/mx5chris/), on Flickr

has a cracked forend, lever sticks to the left a little, but the action feels tight.
adjustable cheekpiece.

I have no connection to B&B but figured this may be a good deal for somebody looking... i'd get it but the gun fund is dry right now.

[chas08]

Baikals are built like tanks,The issue with them, however, is that they also handle like one I'm sure your discerning palate wouldn't care for it, but I rather like my 28ga Baikal SxS. I spent the $250 ish dollars on it to see If I would like owning the gauge, and as it turns out, I do. I figure I'll shoot it till it breaks, turn it into a floor lamp for my mancave, and buy something of better quality. I can't recall offhand how many Dove seasons I've had it, but I'm still waiting for it to break.

[oneounceload]

Good for you, and glad yours isn't one that has broken so easily and readily. Breaking has nothing to do with handling, or even quality. There are inexpensive field guns that handle very nicely, just as there are expensive ones that do not for certain folks

The S&W SxS Elite Gold and various Ugartechea models are inexpensive for a quality SxS, yet they handle and balance very nicely, while a classic 1929 Parker I tried felt very awkward- yet its worth and value was 10X the others.

[chas08]

I've been eyeing the Ugartechea models on line in both 16 and 28 they are a handsome SxS, and quite affordable in the lower two grades. I would love to have one of each. I've never ran across one that I could handle though.

[Dave McCracken]

My guess, that 600 is someone's old trap gun and it has a zillion rounds behind it. The adjustable comb is the clue.

Having the lever left of center usually indicates much wear also.