Cheaper Than Dirt? Shipping.... say what!


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intercooler
April 25, 2012, 07:38 PM
I haven't ordered from there in a while. Put in about 6 different .22 ammos ($50 order) and when I went to figure the shipping it was $41! It showed three different warehouses about $13/ea. for shipping. Is their website jacked and it should be one charge of $13 from one selected warehouse? I cancelled my order because that's nuts if it is a combo for all three :mad:

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firesky101
April 25, 2012, 07:41 PM
If you are going to order from them, try to get it all from one warehouse. Even if you have to pay a few cents more for certain ammo. I have given up on them all together.

intercooler
April 25, 2012, 07:44 PM
Who in their right mind would pay almost more for the shipping than the cost of the ammo. If that's true they won't sell much!

Robbins290
April 25, 2012, 07:47 PM
I agreE. I gave up on them too.

Rail Driver
April 25, 2012, 07:49 PM
I've been aware of their shipping peculiarities for some time now. If I can't get all of what I want from them, shipped from the same warehouse, then I usually shop elsewhere. If I can get it all from one warehouse through CTD though, in most cases, the price is worth the hassle.

dubya450
April 25, 2012, 08:07 PM
I just ordered from there last week and I had to change up where the two different boxes of ammo came from so it was from the same warehouse. I did pay about a buck more for the ammo but saved 14 in shipping. I do want to mention how crappy their customer service is though, I called and tried to cancel one of the boxes of ammo after i realized I still had two boxes of the same left and the woman lied to me and said the order had been shipped the night before. Well it was about 10pm on a Sunday night when i ordered and it was Monday morning 9am when i called, I highly doubt they shipped within an hour or two on a SUNDAY NIGHT! needless to say ill never order from them again no matter how cheap the prices are. Don't lie to your customers.

intercooler
April 25, 2012, 08:09 PM
Too much grief for. 22lr. Guess I will hit the lgs.

barstoolguru
April 25, 2012, 08:15 PM
I pass on then too. there are better deals

Elkins45
April 25, 2012, 08:15 PM
I've never bought anything from CTD just because of their outrageous shipping charges.

Enachos
April 25, 2012, 08:23 PM
I had purchased a reloading press from them a couple months ago. I payed for 2-3 day shipping and recieved it almost a week later. I called the day after placing the order (as I always do) to insure the order went through and they kept telling me it already shipped despite the fact that I hadn't recieved a tracking number. Even when I tried tracking the order on their website the status remained unchanged till the day I recieved it. In total I called twice and each time they kinda fed me a BS lie. But atleast I recieved the item!

mrvco
April 25, 2012, 08:28 PM
CTD's ordering process is awful.

I either get "Warehouse G" which appears to be (based on the shipping prices quoted from this location) located in Guam. Or I get stuff spread across multiple warehouses and it is left to me to try and find a warehouse that has everything I want for a reasonable price w/ reasonable shipping (which pretty much never happens).

So 99.999% of the time it is easier and cheaper to order from someone else.

CDW4ME
April 25, 2012, 08:45 PM
I HATE the multiple warehouse / seperate shipping aspect of CTD; when I attempt to order stuff and it requires more than one warehouse / shipping I start pricing the total cost from other places before placing any order.

Walkalong
April 25, 2012, 09:25 PM
I would have to be desperate to order from them. I miss the original CTD.

loose noose
April 25, 2012, 11:03 PM
I've never ordered more than one item at a time from CTD, but I did notice the shipping was pretty high, and you can forget about tracking the item. It's allways somewhere in Texas, and the next thing ya know, you've got it.:scrutiny:

intercooler
April 25, 2012, 11:41 PM
I just ordered through Natchez. Decent deal

Zach S
April 26, 2012, 02:08 PM
I haven't ordered anything from CTD in several years.

They only shipped FedEx, and the driver for my route was an idiot. Due to the issues that were a result of his incompetence, I didn't order from anyone that used FedEx until after I moved.

holdencm9
April 26, 2012, 10:27 PM
I just ordered $185 of ammo through PSA, shipping was $9?

The deals were all pretty good, not like "WHOA!" but it saves me gas to go to the store and tax. ($9 is less than 5% which beats sales tax easily)

mookiie
April 26, 2012, 11:27 PM
CTD has awful shipping rates and than they want to charge you 3x to ship rates because they purposefully split similar merchandise at multiple locations to drive u fees. It is really a disgrace that they have fallen so low!

oneounceload
April 26, 2012, 11:29 PM
Cheaper Than Dirt...............isn't

I had a large order ready to go until I priced the shipping - same thing from three warehouses - I called, they explained that, I politely told them I am cancelling my order due to that - they did not seem to care at all

Vonderek
April 26, 2012, 11:39 PM
Cheaper than Moon Dirt

dubya450
April 27, 2012, 02:21 AM
Oneounceload, I'm really surprised they canceled your order for you. If you seen my post I tried to cancel something and got fed lies and basically said I couldn't cancel because it had supposedly shipped. Never again!

ColtPythonElite
April 27, 2012, 02:27 AM
I ordered 20 bulk boxes of .22lr from CTD a while back. The cost to ship was $41. I still ended up saving nearly 4 bucks a box when compared to buying the same ammo at Walmart.

allaroundhunter
April 27, 2012, 02:58 AM
Ammunition to go is what I use when ordering ammo online...even though I have to pay TX sales tax because they are located in Brenham.

They typically have everything that I want and get my stuff to me quicky, again, maybe because I live fairly close.


I just looked at PSA.....and if they have what I want they might get some of my business in the future.

wally
April 27, 2012, 01:57 PM
With CTD unless your order all comes from the same warehouse you get hosed on shipping and it doesn't help that they seem to ship FedEx next day -- if I order on Monday its here on Wednesday, I'd rather get it the next Monday at half the shipping cost.

wriggly
April 27, 2012, 02:08 PM
CTD's shipping is bad enough. But, lets not forget how they began price gouging after the last presidential election, after all the shortage insanity started up.

If you are still buying from the rip offs, you only have yerself to blame. :evil:

22-rimfire
April 27, 2012, 02:08 PM
Who in their right mind would pay almost more for the shipping than the cost of the ammo.

You might be surprised at how many people do not pay attention to the shipping as they assume it is a given they will have to pay regardless. But, the further something is shipped, generally the higher the shipping cost. Maybe Amazon needs to start selling ammunition? I suspect they would sell A LOT with their free shipping for orders over $25.

jr_watkins
April 27, 2012, 02:18 PM
I'm surprised how negative these rating of CTD are. I order from them about once every other month or so. I do keep track and group orders from the same warehouse though. If I can't get all the stuff from the same warehouse, I delay the things from other warehouses until the next order.

The best part of ordering from CTD is that they normally upgrade the shipping and I usually have the items the next day. I live in Houston and they ship from Dallas, maybe that is why. Still, shipping is better from CTD than from Midway or similar mail order ammo/gun places in my opinion.

GBExpat
April 27, 2012, 02:20 PM
I used to frequently order from them in the '90s. Within a few years following the millennium I noticed that their shipping rates had gone WAY up (but no mention of any different-warehouse-shipping-charges silliness at that time) and that is when I stopped placing orders.

I have not even looked thru one of their catalogs in almost a decade.

jrdolall
April 27, 2012, 03:12 PM
I keep seeing the complaints about CTD and the high shipping rates. I order from them every couple of months and have never had an issue with their shipping rates, their prices or their service. Most of the complaints I see here are because people place orders without paying close attention to what they are ordering.
If you place an order with them you need to be aware of the different warehouses. They clearly show on every item which warehouse it will ship from. I have no idea why they use multiple shipping locations but it is not like they hide that info. I always shop around online before I order and CTD is usually the cheapest for what I order. FedEx shows up about 2 days after the order is placed. I can see where making a change would be a problem becasue I usually have a tracking number within a couple of hours.

oneounceload
April 27, 2012, 03:19 PM
With CTD unless your order all comes from the same warehouse

Incorrect - they have three warehouses and will pull your order from wherever has it - however, that can mean three hazmats and three shipping costs - someone there has ZERO idea of logistics and shjipping

sleepyone
April 27, 2012, 03:41 PM
I live near Fort Worth and have been to their store a few times. EVERY time it is packed and there are lines for every dept in the store. The employees are nice enough and most of them fairly knowledgeable, but the catalog is worthless as far as ammo goes because the prices on the Web have already increased by the time the catalog comes out. Fortunately, Cabela's is just up I-35 about 20 minutes, and they have been very competitive on their ammo and firearms prices. I just picked up 1,000 rounds of XM193 5.56 55gr. for under $300 after using one of their coupons and some of my Cabela's points. I doubt if I will go back to CTD unless they have a gun I can't find somewhere else. They do have the largest selection of Colt 1911s I have seen anywhere other than the Fort Worth Gun Show at decent prices.

mrvco
April 27, 2012, 07:06 PM
I guess it depends on where you live relative to their warehouse locations, but since I started comparison shopping CTD's total price, I have yet to run into a situation where CTD was the better deal.

And I show them having 6 warehouses... A, B, C, D, F and G (I can't find anything that ships from an "E").

allaroundhunter
April 27, 2012, 07:15 PM
deleted

SabbathWolf
April 27, 2012, 07:40 PM
I buy from them all the time too.
No problems.

But I do make sure that each item in an order is coming from the same warehouse.
It will even let you pick the warehouse in some cases.

If I have items coming from a different warehouse...I just wait until I have "other" items coming from said warehouse too, and then just make that a separate order.
The whole thing "is" kinda dumb though.....

CharlieDeltaJuliet
April 27, 2012, 08:04 PM
Yeah just checked shipping on 10 boxes of 5.56 is $17.99 + $3 handling.

Jim NE
April 28, 2012, 12:56 AM
Pertaining to the original post, I had that problem with a wholesale supplier when I was in (non gun) retail. They'd ship $95 of my $100 order from one warehouse with a $15 shipping/COD charge...and the remaining $5 of merchandise from a different warehouse with a $10 shipping/COD fee.

They just couldn't figure out how stupid that was. Stopped using them, of course.

Moose1995
April 28, 2012, 01:02 AM
Makes me wonder if they do this(ship from multiple warehouses) on purpose to make more money with their outrageous shipping charges. Anyone here tried sportsmans guide? I find their pricing reasonable and their shipping to be as well. And its always shipped in a timely manner. I highly recommend.

Jim NE
April 28, 2012, 01:38 AM
Makes me wonder if they do this(ship from multiple warehouses)

Suppliers I used to deal with (again, non gun) actually did it to keep shipping costs down for the customer. Shipping to California is cheaper from a Salt Lake City warehouse than a Cleveland warehouse, but shipping to Pittsburgh is cheaper from Cleveland than SLC.

When they try to split ship single orders, though, it screws everything up.

ColtPythonElite
April 28, 2012, 05:34 AM
Makes me wonder if they do this(ship from multiple warehouses) on purpose to make more money with their outrageous shipping charges. Anyone here tried sportsmans guide? I find their pricing reasonable and their shipping to be as well. And its always shipped in a timely manner. I highly recommend.
I like Sportsman Guide. I've never had any issues with them. $10 off coupons are easy to find.

gym
April 28, 2012, 04:55 PM
I bought some today, the shipping was 12 bucks, but the ammo was inexpensive, and Wallmart was out including their warehouse Of 223/556. So to me it was worth it as the same ammo goes for 2 bucks a box"20" around here. So what I saved on ammo I paid in shipping, same thing, and I don't like being almost out of rifle ammo.

16n69
April 28, 2012, 06:45 PM
I haven't ordered from there in a while. Put in about 6 different .22 ammos ($50 order) and when I went to figure the shipping it was $41! It showed three different warehouses about $13/ea. for shipping. Is their website jacked and it should be one charge of $13 from one selected warehouse? I cancelled my order because that's nuts if it is a combo for all three :mad:
Ok...this thread pretty well determined CTD sucks.
I was about to place an ammo order from them, when I noticed the unusually high shipping charge...reproduced the similar order with Midway USA & the Outdoor Gear Barn and the shipping was half compared to CTD, at both these other sites.

Does anybody know how Midway USA & the Outdoor Gear Barn compare to each other in the ways that count?
How do they compare to Cabelas and Brownells, two names I DO know, but thought were more expensive?

mberoose
April 28, 2012, 09:48 PM
In this day & age of multiple cheap online options like AmmoMan, AIMSurplus, and SGAmmo, CTD better step their game up.

mrvco
April 28, 2012, 10:45 PM
I don't normally order ammo from Midway USA, but I do order other stuff from them and they always do a great job... easy to order, quick to ship and everything arrives intact.

SabbathWolf
April 28, 2012, 11:17 PM
This issue almost deserves it's own other thread.
As in, where "IS" some of the better places to order ammo from without getting hosed?

JWJacobVT
April 28, 2012, 11:26 PM
I use www.Ammoseek.com Works great.

SabbathWolf
April 28, 2012, 11:30 PM
I use www.Ammoseek.com Works great.

Added your link to my favorites for future possible use.
That looks really cool the way it works!

.338-06
April 28, 2012, 11:57 PM
One of the things we Alaskans get jacked around on is shipping. I wanted to get a piece of Voodoo Tactical gear. It was $9.99 at CTD. It was $17.99 through Voodoo Tactical. Shipping at CTD was $21, shipping at Voodoo Tactical was $5. I guess that CTD doesn't realize that the USPS also goes to Alaska. This is the same reason I buy reloading equipment direct from Lee.

lilguy
April 29, 2012, 12:43 AM
Just ordered bulk new Milsup 308 for 640.00. free shipping. Even better deals
on aged Milsup, just gotta search.

Redlg155
April 29, 2012, 09:27 AM
I gave up on CTD when it comes to ordering firearms. My first order went well with no problems. My second order was a headache. Since they have no real time inventory tracking system, I ended up having to fax a second copy of my dealers FFL (which I was incorrectly instructed that I need a new one for EVERY transaction) and having a hold for $500 on my account for over a week.

I find out later that the inventory is adjusted after the order is processed for shipment, not when the order is placed and FFL and payment is recieved.

Remllez
April 29, 2012, 09:50 AM
Sportsmans Guide has good deals and usually have a ten dollar coupon in their catalogs.
I live ten minutes from them so I go to the outlet store and don't pay shipping. They have good deals on surplus ammo with almost daily web sales.

stonecutter2
April 29, 2012, 10:09 AM
I stopped ordering from CTD when I paid waaay too much for shipping in a thin, bubble-wrap lined envelope through USPS. I've never been back since. I hate companies that charge too much for shipping, then use whatever's lying around to ship things in. If I'm paying top dollar for shipping, put it in a box - preferably with something to keep it safe. Not the cheapest bubble wrap envelope you can find laying around on the warehouse floor.

godale
April 29, 2012, 12:17 PM
i have ordered off ctd for 14 years. never a problem and always first class service.however with some of the changes and money being tight i am now looking for other options.

ConstitutionCowboy
April 29, 2012, 01:04 PM
I shop Natches, CTD, MidwayUSA, and Brownells for stuff I can't find locally. All have their ups, and so far I've never had a down from Brownells.

In one instance I ordered some gun cleaning liquids and one of the bottles broke in shipping. The shipper re-packaged what wasn't broken, and it arrived safely albeit a couple days late. When the supplier re-shipped a replacement for the broken bottle and it miraculously arrived unscathed, I found out why the first bottle broke. The bottle was placed in one corner of the box and the packing material was placed so as to keep the bottle in that corner - instead of the packing material being wrapped around the bottle to hold the bottle in the middle of the box where it would receive the best protection.

A similar thing happened with a buckshot order. Half the shot was missing because the bottle broke and it cost the supplier another whole bottle of shot to replace what was lost. I brought this poor packaging debacle to the supplier's attention, but apparently it was to no avail as witnessed by the broken cleaning fluid bottle. Their packaging cost the same as the packaging from other suppliers, too! - Go figure!

Woody

Fred_G
April 29, 2012, 02:04 PM
I used to order from ctd. Like many have said, the shipping started getting way to high. The last order I did not place was for a $10 or so part. Shipping was going to be more than $10... No thanks. Don't remember what it was, but it would not cost that much to ship. Magazine cap for a remington shotgun I think.

Great site for ammo prices (many include shipping in the database), they also list guns and other stuff:

http://gun-deals.com/ammo

CraigC
May 6, 2012, 11:17 AM
Interesting, I just ordered a 6300rd case of .22LR from CTD and shipping was only $17. Saved me $15-$20 over Walmart.

Swing
May 6, 2012, 01:32 PM
Its been a long time since I've ordered from CTD. The shipping situation was part of the reason why I've gone elsewhere.

gym
May 6, 2012, 01:36 PM
Got my Dirt order 2 days ago, $46 for 100 rounds of 556-pmc 55 grain, including shipping, it beats driving around wasting $10 bucks in gas trying to find it.

Twmaster
May 6, 2012, 08:30 PM
I've never bought anything from CTD just because of their outrageous shipping charges.

This has been my experience. $11 to ship a Marlin 10 round .22LR magazine? Really?

I've also been to their store up in McKinney and I was not impressed. The store was disorganized and not one of the staff was to be found for help.

CTD is not on my list of places to shop anymore.

Deltaboy
May 6, 2012, 11:47 PM
I just go to the Store and save money.

NMGonzo
May 6, 2012, 11:50 PM
mail order 22's?

Do you mail order mother in laws too?

St8LineGunsmith
May 7, 2012, 12:00 PM
The best prices I found on ammo is the local gun shop
I can get the same on line prices minus shipping charges
Georgia Gun Trader in Ringgold GA

HammerheadSSN663
May 7, 2012, 08:16 PM
CTD is a joke on their shipping.

Since its basically the first website that comes up when searching ammo, its best to leave shopping there for the noobs.

jimmyraythomason
May 7, 2012, 09:13 PM
I like CTD but I will buy elsewhere because of CTD's high shipping charges. Just today I ordered a Tapco Intrafuse handguard for a Saiga 7.62x39. CTD wants $44 for the handguard and $15.30 to ship. Shipping weight was 9.6 OUNCES! I bought the exact same handguard from Midway for $41 plus $5.10 shipping.

peacebutready
May 8, 2012, 06:37 AM
CTD charges for "handling" in addition to shipping. It is a separate charge when you check out.

effengee
May 8, 2012, 10:08 PM
This has nothing to do with general firearms discussion and yet, here it is with 3 pages... I've had threads locked and booted in the first 3 posts for going off topic from firearms...

Certaindeaf
May 8, 2012, 10:33 PM
^
You could always yarp to admin about it and get it locked. Never know.

JERRY
May 8, 2012, 10:38 PM
CTD is anything but.......

St8LineGunsmith
May 8, 2012, 11:22 PM
CTD has good pricing until the shipping and handling charges are gouged in:what:

oneounceload
May 9, 2012, 12:04 PM
I just ordered a RCBS Primer Arm for my Press which I had since 1968. When I moved to Ky I lost my small rifle primer plug and couldn't find one that would fit my existing primer arm. SO I ordered the primer arm from MidwayUSA. What really makes me mad is that I paid $17.49 for the part & paid, in addition, $13.82 + $3.00 Special Handling Fee (?). To me this is excessive when the shipping cost almost the same price as the cost of the item.

Not to make you even madder. BUT had you called RCBS, they would have sent you the part for free, including the shipping

GBExpat
May 9, 2012, 01:23 PM
So MidwayUSA knowingly screwed me than? $15 shipping.

:confused: Certainly not ...

As with CTD, if you do not like the amount of the shipping cost, you are not required to order the item from them.

FWIW, several years ago I, too, found that I had lost an RCBS component piece when I unpacked my reloading equipment. I contacted RCBS about obtaining a replacement and they sent me for free.

TenRingGuns.com
May 10, 2012, 03:45 AM
It's because they can't drop ship their guns anymore, as I mentioned, a huge game changer for them and others.

See this: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=645663&page=9

They gotta make up for it somewhere...

wally
May 10, 2012, 09:44 AM
Sadly CTD is far form the worst!

primaryweapons.com (Primary Weapons Systems, PWS) wants $12.95 to ship a 5/8x24 to 1/2x36 thread adapter that weight maybe 1 oz, and they are slow 10+ days, at least with CTD if I'd ordered it yesterday it'd be here tomorrow or the next day.


So MidwayUSA knowingly screwed me than? $15 shipping.
Probably not, depends on what you ordered, small things they ship USPS for like $5

mattmann
May 10, 2012, 11:26 PM
One more reason to shop local. Yes you pay a little more on the front but you save it in anxiety waiting and shipping. Plus we would all hate it if all the locals shut down huh?

Sent from my DROID RAZR

jimmyraythomason
May 10, 2012, 11:43 PM
One more reason to shop local. Which would be great!....if we HAD a local store to shop! The only thing we have is a Walmart Super Store and they don't carry much ammo,some cheap scopes and NO desirable accessories. I either buy on-line or do without. P.S. I drive to the next town to buy ammo rather than put up with the hassle of shopping WM only 3 miles from my home.

7624452
May 10, 2012, 11:51 PM
I am happy to shop local when the price is right (almost never). CTD is very bad. I only ordered one thing from them that I needed and could not find anywhere else.

7624452
May 10, 2012, 11:52 PM
Midway has been very good to me. Low prices and cheap shipping.

jcwit
May 10, 2012, 11:54 PM
Why can't all on line purchase just be free shipping. It is only fair for the people.

Are we entitled to fairness?

Stevie-Ray
May 11, 2012, 12:03 AM
Maybe Amazon needs to start selling ammunition? I suspect they would sell A LOT with their free shipping for orders over $25. Oh if only! I'm a real sucker for Super Saver Shipping. 'Course they'd probably up that to $100 for ammo, but I'll bet it'd be worth it!

CZguy
May 11, 2012, 12:13 AM
Quote:
Why can't all on line purchase just be free shipping. It is only fair for the people.

Are we entitled to fairness?


But, but, but, they told us at the occupy rally that we were. :rolleyes:


I really like Brownell's and Midway.

mattmann
May 11, 2012, 12:43 AM
I am happy to shop local when the price is right (almost never). CTD is very bad. I only ordered one thing from them that I needed and could not find anywhere else.

I understand they are a little higher and sometimes are way higher (which is when i don't buy) but why not spend that extra $5 there and support local business? We would all cry about it if they closed. You can actually see something and hold it rather than assume it will work. They can't get the prices everyone like ctd can so they have to charge some more to keep the doors open. Just a thought anyways...

Sent from my DROID RAZR

gym
May 11, 2012, 02:35 PM
They hace the PMC ammo at a dollar less per bx than I paid 2 weeks ago, that pays your shipping if you are in the market for 556.

robMaine
May 11, 2012, 02:51 PM
I have always noticed that Cheaper Than Dirts shipping is anything but

LongTimeGone
May 11, 2012, 04:44 PM
I bought 2000 rds of CCI SV .22lr last month from CTD because they were the best deal at the time as SV was getting scarce then. I used to get it at my lgs but they haven't had it for a while.
Now, ctd, midway and brownells is out,
but I just ordered a case (5000) from SGAmmo.
Shipping for a case is $22.
I don't recall what I paid at ctd but it is less $/rd than lgs.

Erik M
May 11, 2012, 11:10 PM
the whole "multiple warehouses are a benefit to the customer" angle they push kills me. its asinine. it makes it harder to look up parts than trying to find something on the Natchez website without a catalog. I received a good size gift certificate for CTD for Christmas, still havent spent it. Its the only catch22 that aggravates me more than Midway USA charging a 'handling fee' unless I buy more than $40 from them.

22-rimfire
May 13, 2012, 11:03 AM
Take advantage of the $5 shipping that is often offerred for any purchase at places like Cabela's, Sportsman Guide, and occasionally at some of the other online/mail order merchants that offer ammunition. I recently purchased some 480 Ruger ammo and a few bricks of target 22 ammo with the $5 shipping. That probably saved me $20 in shipping costs.

beex215
May 13, 2012, 11:45 AM
the sites name is very ironic

SARDiver
May 13, 2012, 12:51 PM
I read through and didn't see anyone mention this, so I will...

A couple of years ago, when ammo was terribly tough to find, CTD had steel cased Wolf .380 FMJs for over $70 a box.

I thought it was a misprint and emailed them. A day later there was a comment...a "review"...that said that ammo was really, really great, even at that price, and you better hurry because there weren't any choices out there right now and there never would be again!

They were gouging, and taking advantage of people who had .380s and didn't know any better. I vowed never to buy from them again.

SANDRAT
May 13, 2012, 09:55 PM
I wouldn't touch CTD with a barge pole !!! I remember when the "Obama Panic" hit and those people at that business jacked their prices over night.AIM Surplus didn't raise prices one penny,said they wouldn't,and when sold out.....they were out.I respect that.Couple of local gun shops lost my business forever over price gouging also !!

skoro
May 14, 2012, 09:27 AM
A few years ago, I was a pretty good customer of theirs. Matter of fact, they still send me their catalog on a regular basis. It goes straight into the trash. They were the worst price gougers I encountered during the ammo run 3 years ago. Now, they gouge on shipping.

Buyer beware.

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