AR15 path to success?


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Dimis
April 26, 2012, 04:19 AM
while waiting for my new rifle to come in I have been exploring all sorts of options for this platform
so what should I add?

I know I know alot of people get these rifles and this question gets asked alot but here is my twist..
what should I add first to help make it more functional
not talking lights lasers tacticool crazyness out the wazoo here but stuff that really helps the user (me) or any shooter for that matter to run the firearm better
(and yes Ill get plenty of ammo and start practicing before dumping cash on expensive add ons doohickys and googaws)

I have figured that the first thing I want to replace is the standard grip with something that fills my hand better
then I was looking at the larger trigger guards
the BCM charging handle (medium) looks good too
also a sling and probably the rear sight (flat top reciever) of my choice
the rifle comes with a magpul MBUIS rear so I may not even change it
alot more magazines too
any other suggestions that help ease of use for the AR15?

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Dimis
April 26, 2012, 04:23 AM
oops forgot to ask about the accuwedge receiver stabilizer and the d-fender extractor booster
are these still good ideas or have we evolved past these products?

madcratebuilder
April 26, 2012, 07:13 AM
Only in rare occasions well you need a O ring or D ring on the extractor. IF you have extraction problems a heavy duty spring and insert is the best starting point, only add the O ring if absolutely necessary.

The Accu wedge well help remove slop between the upper and lower. There are a few other methods that do the same, from O rings to set screws. A small amount of slop does not hurt anything.

fatcat4620
April 26, 2012, 07:22 AM
2 cases of ammo and about 10 mags. The most important part you can add to make your AR more functional is between your ears.

Hunterdad
April 26, 2012, 07:23 AM
By far, my favorite and cheapest mod I have done is installing a tactical latch on my charging handle.

lmccrock
April 26, 2012, 07:55 AM
Accu-wedge can help if there is a lot of slop but it is not necessary. One of my rifles has one but others do not.

Badger Tac Latch if your scope bell overhangs the charging handle. If you have irons or a dot scope, it is just something that sticks out and gets in the way.

D-fender? If your rifle has a problem it could be a quick fix, but fix the problem.

gotigers
April 26, 2012, 09:30 AM
Accu-wedge: I have not needed to tighten up the wobble between the upper and lower. wedge unneeded.

Latch: I agree that a tactical latch for the charging handle is a huge benefit. I took a tactical carbine class 2 weeks ago. One of the first things the instructors talked about for equipment was the tactical latch. It helps. All of those instructors like the BCM, but prefer the Badger. I like both. Pick'em.

Mags: A dozen good used GI mags would be fine, but a dozen Pmags would be bonus.

Slings: I like a 2 point sling like the Magpul MS2 or MS3 with 1 point as an option. The MS2 or MS3 aren't padded. A pad for your shoulder might be nice during a long shoot, carbine class or duty.

Sling mounts: I like a single point at the receiver end plate and a Magpul RSA about halfway down the forend. This allows 1 or 2 point use. In 2 point it keeps the AR level, out of the dirt when crouching, easy to transition to pistol and back, etc.

sights: the Magpul MBUS are fine for most.

Optics: for us civilians i like an Eotech plinking, CQB, etc. It has a nice small (1 MOA) center dot for more accurate shooting and a 65 MOA ring for point and shoot. If i needed a red dot on all the time, duty, i would want an aimpoint because the batteries last for years. For 3 gun i like a 1-4x with clean crosshairs, no illumination.

For accurate shooting a free float tube and a good trigger are a must. With either good bags or a bipod will help a bunch.

Caliper_RWVA
April 26, 2012, 09:43 AM
What do you intend to do with the AR? Carbine classes? Three gun? High power? Home defense? Range fun?

Different roles means different equipment...

68wj
April 26, 2012, 09:47 AM
Trigger. Once you have a GOOD trigger in an AR, it is hard to shoot anything else.

Dimis
April 26, 2012, 02:44 PM
2 cases of ammo and about 10 mags. The most important part you can add to make your AR more functional is between your ears.

I already stated that was my intention

What do you intend to do with the AR? Carbine classes? Three gun? High power? Home defense? Range fun?

Carbine classes threegun and home defense (and of course range fun) but I believe the question is more to things that are liked prefered for general use and make things easier no matter what the situation i.e more magazines larger trigger guard etc dont have a single role but benefit all styles of shooting in general

I plan to run the gun in a minimalist fashion for some time so rails lights lasers optics all of that will come way down the road

oh forgot to mention its just a simple spikes tactical ST-15 M4gery just so everyone knows what were working with

john5036
April 26, 2012, 03:26 PM
The AR is really kind to users exactly the way it is. My suggestion is that you wait till you get the rifle and decide what to do after you take it for its first outing. Only then do you really get an idea as to what would make either you or the gun do "better" or at the least more comfortably.

However, if you must think about changing things out now, I'd stick to the cheaper parts like an enlarged/hanced trigger guard, the BCM Gunfighter, and maybe even different handguards. I'd also consider getting a fully functional set of irons (either as full carry handle or cut down) to learn on as well. AR irons are vastly underestimated.

sixgunner455
April 26, 2012, 03:34 PM
Pmags > GI mags. If you get, or have, GI mags, get Pmag followers for all of them.

My personal AR is a very, very basic carbine. It has a fixed carry handle, issue 6 psn stock, and a Magpul MOE rubber overmolded grip. I am tempted to do something with a red dot, with flashlights, but for the moment, I can't think of a thing to do to it that would be a real improvement.

If you are new to ARs, the best thing to do is spend your money on ammo and target time. That experience under your belt will make it run better than anything you can add to it.

TonyAngel
April 26, 2012, 04:07 PM
I'm for ammo and practice. You really won't know what needs to be improved for you until you've spent some quality time with the rifle. If you just feel the need to customize, I'd suggest some MOE furniture.

I'd also invest in a few spare sets of rings and a back up bolt, or at the least an extractor and springs/inserts.

wingman
April 26, 2012, 04:15 PM
Save your money and practice then make changes you feel necessary,with my Stag 3 I added a geissele SSA-E trigger can't see the need for other mods.:D

taliv
April 26, 2012, 05:14 PM
#1 at least a couple good magazines
#2 optic

everything else is pretty personal choice. i'd upgrade a stock way before i upgraded the pistol grip. i'm picky about stocks and the standard grip is actually not bad. upgrading the trigger depends on how bad your factory trigger is. it's definitely not necessary for classes (in fact, you should probably stick with the standard if that's what you're mostly doing). if you're going to sit at a bench a lot, a nicer trigger can help.

Dimis
April 27, 2012, 01:45 AM
smh... im not new to shooting guys... ammo and practice are already on the list as with every firearm i have owned (will own) I plan to extensively shoot it and become as proficient with it as my body and skills allow

im not even that new to ARs I have handled my fair share of them and know what I already dont like (i.e. the stock pistol grip)

we get this question alot and the sentiment behind the "go shoot it alot" answer is understood... but lets just say I already had that in mind and understand the need for practice is there any one add on that once you placed it on your rifle you wouldnt do without
could be something as little as the BAD lever or maybe a certain buffer you cant live without

Tirod
April 27, 2012, 12:20 PM
OK, given some experience - the answer is still go shoot it.

Mags, and ammo? Sure.

Grip? It's a rifle, you hold it up with the Other Arm, and your shoulder. The grip is just a finger rest. I prefer the A1, I still shot Expert with the A2, I bought the TD for my own, but only because it was the closest in size I could get with Foliage Green. Not having it in Black was more important on my list of priorities than having the perfect pistol grip, because - it's NOT a pistol. It's a rifle.

Charging handle? If the bolt catch is doing the job, and you aren't battering the gun against obstacles, you only charge the weapon the first time ... after that, it's drop mag, insert, release bolt, and fire. Soldiers have used the GI charging handle for 40 years, it's never been a Crane SOPMOD update yet.

Buffer? You have to shoot it a lot first to find out what it's doing wrong, then determine what might fix it.

Sling? For some limited uses, a sling is nice, others, no. The Infantry School taught me to take the silly thing off, we weren't on parade, we were locked and loaded to shoot other people. It made noise, hung up on brush and gear, impeded combatives, and was generally a nuisance. For MP use with detainees on the street, maybe, in vehicles, never.

Optic, yes. Rear sight, I cut down an M4 carry handle sight. GI, milspec, durable, won't fall apart, always ready to go. If the optic can't be trusted, then you can't wait - but lots of soldiers don't have one mounted, they just hump it in case. Less dead weight on the rail.

The reason we say shoot it - most spend money on kitting out the gun beyond their skill level, and their focus of use becomes peculiar to their ability and target. There's lots of marketing and options out there, but very little to recommend until a very specific circumstance is presented. What helps on a hog gun doesn't work for CQB is useless for varmints might be illegal for NM competition.

And a lot of it is very little incremental return for the geometric increase in expense. I don't get 5X improved anything for a TD grip vs A1, the BRT flash hider doesn't give 8X the noise reduction over a $8 GI.

Show me a 25% hit probability increase going to a certain brand adjustable stock. Please. Otherwise, it's an A1 until then. My trunk is big enough to get it to the range. When your skill level and understanding point out a deficient area, then change that. Until then, it's all very speculative.

taliv
April 27, 2012, 12:28 PM
come on guys, the OP has already said THREE TIMES that he understands the value of shooting it and intends to do just that.

goon
April 27, 2012, 01:09 PM
Based on mine, I'd say get some high quality lubricant too.
I'm not sure what you're lubing with but the usual light oils haven't worked satisfactorily with my AR. As the factory lube that BCM uses wore off, I encountered a few FTE's with some types of ammo.
Although slip2000 was recommended, it is also pricey and not available locally. A combat rifle shouldn't need imported lube that costs $16 a bottle to run, so I tried synthetic 5W30 motor oil and that seems to work fine.

FWIW, although I cut my teeth on M-16's with the standard charging handle, I like the BCM Gunfighter now that I have it. It makes charging with the weak hand possible without risking damage to the charging handle. I'll be keeping mine.

Does your AR come with sights? I don't like the standard A2 style. I could always hit well enough with them but they seem fragile and overly complex. Now that I'm using my own rifle and not using what was issued, I have a Daniel Defense A1 style rear on mine.

HoosierQ
April 27, 2012, 02:38 PM
I lube mine with a 50/50 mix of Mobil 1 5w30 and Marvel's Mystery Oil. A quart costs about $10. If you used regular motor oil it would be about $5 a quart. Very slippery stuff.

When the insides get dirty, the enough of the grim is suspended in the oily mess that most just wipes off with a rag. Then some CLP to finish and oil it up again.

bri
April 27, 2012, 03:19 PM
...I have figured that the first thing I want to replace is the standard grip with something that fills my hand better...


Check out the Ergo grips. I have larger hands and the A2 grip was swapped out before I fired my first round. I went with the right-handed suregrip and like it a lot:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/217592/ergo-sure-grip-pistol-grip-ar-15-right-hand-overmolded-rubber-black?cm_vc=3206BrandPopProd

...then I was looking at the larger trigger guards...

I installed Magpul's enhanced, aluminum trigger guard. No valid reason, other than I liked the way it looks.

...also a sling...

I went with a Magpul MS2, seems nice but I haven't ran through a class with it or used it extensively beyond plinking at the range.

pseudonymity
April 27, 2012, 03:24 PM
You have just asked a question about how to specifically improve a general class of firearm for an undetermined purpose. You seem to be less than pleased with the responses, but they seem fair given the question.

If you asked what to change on a bolt action rifle, or pump action shotgun or semi auto pistol you would probably get the same type of responses.

If you want to know which aftermarket parts for AR platform were considered a good value by members, maybe that should be the question? Not trying to put words in your mouth, but I for one am not too sure what you are really asking.

Dimis
April 28, 2012, 12:54 PM
You have just asked a question about how to specifically improve a general class of firearm for an undetermined purpose. You seem to be less than pleased with the responses, but they seem fair given the question.

If you asked what to change on a bolt action rifle, or pump action shotgun or semi auto pistol you would probably get the same type of responses.

If you want to know which aftermarket parts for AR platform were considered a good value by members, maybe that should be the question? Not trying to put words in your mouth, but I for one am not too sure what you are really asking.

refer to Talivs post

the frustration comes from everyone on here throwing out the same answer of shoot it and playing it safe as to not break that boundry of answering my question... all of the answers are training related not equipment related

if you took a vehicle and asked the same question sure people can tell you over and over to drive it youll figure it out except that we have evolved well past the model t here
you could easily rattle off SEVERAL modifications that the model t does not have that help the driver
traction control power steering ABS brakes independent suspension and on and on...

see my frustration yet?

now back to your regularly scheduled program:

Does your AR come with sights? I don't like the standard A2 style. I could always hit well enough with them but they seem fragile and overly complex. Now that I'm using my own rifle and not using what was issued, I have a Daniel Defense A1 style rear on mine.

it comes with the magpul gen 1 MBUS rear and standard A2 "F" marked front sight

im probably going to stick with that for a little while but I would like a metal rear like the troy or GG&G

wingman
April 28, 2012, 01:20 PM
I actually answered your question with my first post,but it simply comes down to personal choice,most of the AR15 stuff is simply bling to me,I need two things a good trigger and good sights( optics).

kimberkid
April 28, 2012, 01:37 PM
1. Forget the accuwedge ... if you need something to tighten up the halves, get a JP Enterprise Tension Pin ... it pulls the upper and lower together instead of pushing them apart. http://www.jprifles.com/1.5.1.7_small_tp.php

2. Good trigger, if funds are tight a RRA 2-stage is hard to beat

Neverwinter
April 28, 2012, 02:02 PM
larger trigger guards
You might want to pick those up before winter comes and the gloves come on.
the BCM charging handle (medium) looks good too
Their advantage comes in clearing malfunctions, and if you're going to spend the money also get a battery assist device to help with double feeds.
also a sling and probably the rear sight (flat top reciever) of my choice
the rifle comes with a magpul MBUIS rear so I may not even change it
The sling would come first for me out of all the others you mentioned.

As far as ergonomics and handling go, some sort of foregrip may help as well.

Cosmoline
April 28, 2012, 02:34 PM
Here are some mods I've found helpful to make the AR more user friendly:

--Triangle profile handguard
--Magpul grips
--Improved battlesight zero
--Winter trigger guard

But generally less is more. Too much gear these days seems to get added just for the sake of adding it. I've tried out add-ons like the BAD lever and found they aren't worth the reliability tradeoff. Hand guards that are full of rails end up defeating the purpose of being a hand guard.

Bushpilot
April 28, 2012, 02:58 PM
not talking lights lasers tacticool crazyness out the wazoo here but stuff that really helps the user (me) or any shooter for that matter to run the firearm better

A good sling is arguable one of if not the most useful and beneficial things you can put on your AR.
I prefer to keep my AR relatively simple and light.

kwelz
April 28, 2012, 03:07 PM
I think most things have been covered. But the short list based off of your stated useage.


Training (You already stated this is planned)
Magazines (Pmags, Troy BattleMags or Lancers)
White light. (Surefire G2X in a basic mount)
A good 2 point sling (Vickers padded is what I suggest)
A good quality Aimpioint RDS H1 is best but a PRO is a good budget option.


Once you have some good trigger time you can start to determine what else works for you. Extended handguards, buttstocks, grips, etc. These are all subjective to the user. What works for me may not work for you. Sure there are some good guidelines I could give you but that is putting the cart before the horse.

Zerodefect
April 28, 2012, 04:28 PM
while waiting for my new rifle to come in I have been exploring all sorts of options for this platform
so what should I add?



I have figured that the first thing I want to replace is the standard grip with something that fills my hand better
then I was looking at the larger trigger guards
the BCM charging handle (medium) looks good too
also a sling and probably the rear sight (flat top reciever) of my choice
the rifle comes with a magpul MBUIS rear so I may not even change it
alot more magazines too
any other suggestions that help ease of use for the AR15?

I'd recommend getting:
-Magpul Art of the Dynamic Carbine II DVD. Alot of gear stuff is covered in that DVD. Skip the first one, the second is far better.

-Magpul Moe grip is my favorite.
-Stag ambi safety
-Magpul BAD lever, there are a few other brands as well.
-I like Larues rail system the best. I use an agressive 3 gun style grip stance that prefers long 12-13.2"
-Larue has excellent QR light mount and light combos. Get all your lights and lasers on QR mounts so you can remove them quickly.
-Magpul XTM rail covers.

-I prefer the BCM large charging handle. Extra long so it's easy to palm when you're using scopes.
-Gear sector has great hand stops for rails
-MI has single sling mounts that slide right over your existing setup. I like the HK mount.
-I only use Magpul magazines, but there are other decent polymer mags out there.

(Yes Virginia, I am a Magpul fanboy, deal with it)

Dimis
April 29, 2012, 08:11 PM
Thanks for the useful answers guys it helps a lot knowing Im on the right path for upgrades

I'd recommend getting:
-Magpul Art of the Dynamic Carbine II DVD. Alot of gear stuff is covered in that DVD. Skip the first one, the second is far better.

Funny you mention that... Ive been watching both AOTDC 1&2 while waiting (i own all of the Magpul Dynamics Series Videos)
running through drills with a highpoint 9mm carbine is no where near the same tho lol
and I have to agree pt 2 is better I think pt 1 was a test ground to see if people would buy into the series and wasnt taken as far as they would have liked due to costs

B!ngo
April 29, 2012, 09:23 PM
Agree that the optic and the trigger are primary items to fundamentally improve your performance with the rifle. Depending on the distance you plan to shoot should govern the optic, but I'd suggest some glass that will cost you at least $400-$500 (and likely more). Re the trigger Geissle (sorry for the spelling) works for me. I have two of their 3G triggers and they are very nice.
You could also look at a nice muzzle brake (e.g. Titan) but you have to be friendly with other shooters next to you.
B

buckhorn_cortez
April 29, 2012, 10:52 PM
Buy a quality rifle and skip all of the HS you read on the Internet. Run it for awhile and you'll quickly figure out if anything needs to be changed. Then, make only the changes that make it work better for you and not to keep up with the latest fashion trend of the week on the Internet gun forums.

taliv
April 29, 2012, 11:10 PM
funny how, when you ask for advice, people tell you to just go shoot it and figure it out yourself.
when you go shoot and figure it out yourself, they tell you if you'd just listened to their advice, you'd have saved a lot of money by not buying stuff they could have told you wouldn't work.

i'm personally a big fan of learning from the mistakes of others

Dimis
April 29, 2012, 11:42 PM
taliv I couldnt agree more man lol

i was thinking things like a bigger trigger guard for gloved shooting cant hurt anyones "style" or parts that help reliability but everyone ran with the typical "training" or "go shoot it" responses we always see anymore

I love how on an eduacted forum of avid shooters we all still assume that none of us can shoot and that we are all a room full of COD kids pretending to pull triggers

sorry guys but I shoot alot of ammo I shoot often and I know a good deal more than most want to give credit for I dont know it all (wheres RC when I need him) but I would say im far from a gun collector with safe queens
I was hoping others who have gone down this road (and future people doing a search) could have a thread to rely on for good upgrades not just training advice

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