Junk guns are fun too!


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TNboy
April 26, 2012, 11:33 AM
I've always said that I've never shot a gun that I didn't like, I've just shot some that I like more than others. (Ok, I once shot a blackpowder rifle with a revolving cylinder that gave me some nasty powder burns, I didn't like that too much.) I've always scoffed when I've seen things written such as "Glocks are for simple minded people," "I wouldn't own...," "Only a fool would buy a Hipoint." Well as long as it is safe to fire I pretty much want to shoot it. Case in point...

The other day a co-worker and myself were very bored at work. He had a Phoenix Arms .22 with him just for kicks. (Yes, we are fortunate enough to not only be able to carry but also shoot quite often while at work.) We find a top to a tin can and set it up about 50 feet away and took 3 shot turns to see who could hit it first. Had we been shooting a high quality target gun it would have taken neither of us all 3 shots to land one on target. With the Phoenix we spent a good 20 minutes, BSing, cutting up, arm chair quarterbacking each other, etc. before the target was hit. We had a great time messing with that little junker. I encourage all the elitists out there during your next range session to put down your $3000 1911, your $2000 AR and pick up a junker with a friend and have a little fun with it.

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TXdefender
April 26, 2012, 12:22 PM
My Hi Point C9 is surprisingly accurate and reliable. And I'm the expensive 1911 and AR guy.

sallzy
April 26, 2012, 12:48 PM
my jennings j-22 is a sweet chrome plated nail driver. best 125.00 i ever spent. people can call them cheapo junk all they want. that little gun rides with me more than my glock or my fmp-45. as long as you feed it a diet of 36g cci mini mags it cycles em right through.

Agsalaska
April 26, 2012, 12:48 PM
I agree. They have their place.

Not to change the subject because Taurus is clearly not a junk gun in the same category as a Phoenix, Raven, etc. But I bought a snub nose Taurus .38 about five years ago out of a gun shop for about $200. It is a mid nineties make and had barely been used when I bought it. A buddy and I took it and a couple of other guns to the city range one afternoon and could not believe how accurate it was. Out to maybe 15 yards it was nails. So that gave us an excuse to go to the big range North of Anchorage that weekend with a few other guys and about twenty handguns. Nothing outshot it, including multiple glocks, Smiths, a Kahr K40, an old Remington Rand 1911, a new Kimber 1911, and a colt python, out to 15 or 20 yards. It was amazing. And it performed like that no matter who shot it.

I told the guy in the gun shop and he couldnt believe it so we went out days later. He brought some performance 1911 with him and it may have been more accurate, but not by much.

Obviously Taurus does not machine any revolvers to be that accurate, but this one is. I have always wondered how that happened and how often it happened. I dont shoot it much anymore but it is loaded in my house and occasionaly finds its way into the rotation.

Ryanxia
April 26, 2012, 01:03 PM
I like anything that goes bang. In fact, out of all my guns (and some are over $1,000) I like my Mosin Nagant the best. :)

tech30528
April 26, 2012, 02:14 PM
my jennings j-22 is a sweet chrome plated nail driver. best 125.00 i ever spent. people can call them cheapo junk all they want. that little gun rides with me more than my glock or my fmp-45. as long as you feed it a diet of 36g cci mini mags it cycles em right through.

I have to agree. Mine is satin nickel rather than chrome, bought it at a pawn shop for $100. The slide was worn out and after about 50 rounds it wouldn't pick one up out of the magazine. But they have a lifetime warranty, so I sent it back to Vegas and they sent me a new one. Cost me $20. They even sent me a new set of "keys" for the trigger lock for free. Since then never a misfire or any other problem, it's my preferred truck gun. It's small, fits in my center counsol, and carries a handful of Stinger segmented hollow points. Think about it. If you ever have to use it, it's going in an evidence locker someplace. Wouldn't you rather it was a $100 pawn shop pistol instead of your Glock or Kimber?

SlowFuse
April 26, 2012, 03:16 PM
I have a Cobra FS380 that my fiance and I both enjoy shooting. Some of my friends don't feel the cheapo love but its fun to shoot even if its more expensive to feed than the other pistol calibers I own.

larryh1108
April 26, 2012, 03:34 PM
I love my Phoenix HP22a. Fun gun and it's really pretty accurate once you're used to it. I also have the 5" barrel for it but I have never used it for some reason. I also take along my Raven .25 and my Charter Arms .38 Spcl or my CZ70 for fun at the range. If you count my Llamas as cheap junk (many do) then I can have fun at the range for days instead of hours. Of course, I use them to warm up for the expensive toys but, to me, shooting is shooting. None of them are jam-o-matics or I wouldn't own them.

jrdolall
April 26, 2012, 03:38 PM
Hi Point C9 is considered a junk gun by some but I feel completely comfortable shooting mine with JHP or FMJ. Clunky, heavy, not particular pretty but I like the sights and the trigger is not bad. Accuracy at 10 yards is as good as anything I shoot.
Jennings Bryco 9mm has crappy sights and a worse trigger. It is pretty reliable but I seldom pull it out of the desk drawer.

I keep looking at those little Cobra 22s and one day I will fork over my $100 just for the heck of it. If it will shoot most of the time I can throw it in the golf cart for varmint shooting. Varmints like pine cones, aluminum cans, and the occasional dirt clod.

BCRider
April 26, 2012, 04:58 PM
I totally agree. Sometimes the simplest gun can be a whole lotta fun.

My own case in point is the trio of very old, very knocked about .22 single shot falling block rifles. Namely a Stevens Crackshot 26, Remington 6 and Remington Improved 6. Stuff some reloads between the fingers of my forestock hand and I'm good for worrying one of those rimfire swinging targets for a while.

wally
April 26, 2012, 05:12 PM
Think about it. If you ever have to use it, it's going in an evidence locker someplace. Wouldn't you rather it was a $100 pawn shop pistol instead of your Glock or Kimber?

I understand your logic to a point, but I wouldn't worry a nanosecond about my Kahr PM40 or Kimber Ultra Carry should the need arise. Their "$600+ costs pales in comparison to what we spend every year for insurance -- auto, homeowners, flood, etc. makes the peace of mind provided by a quality carry piece trivial in the long run. Unlike the insurance, I only needed to pay the "premium" once.

I've enjoyed tinkering with my Jennings .22 & .380, but they'd be my last choices. They do fill a need for people that need a highly reliable single shot pistol with non-zero probability of multiple shots that don't have the desire (or income) to actually go out and shoot.

The-Reaver
April 26, 2012, 07:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur6GozbD5AQ

holdencm9
April 26, 2012, 08:47 PM
My buddy has a Davis P-32 he got from an uncle for like $40. I keep trying to get it from him for $50 because it was fun to shoot.

303tom
April 26, 2012, 09:00 PM
Junk guns are the bomb, not literally, its just you could care less if they get banged up a bit................

Driftertank
April 26, 2012, 09:51 PM
My "former police issue" Taurus 82 ended up in my hands and out the door for $193. It's worn out. Rattles, wobbles, you name it. But somehow it still locks up tightly, and after running it through an ultrasound bath and oiling it, i loaded up with some cheap .38 Special 158gr LSWC, and was shocked when it put all six into an inch at 10yds, with 5 forming a ragged hole just above the bullseye.

Kiln
April 27, 2012, 05:43 AM
I've got several of them. Along side my CZ, XDM, and various quality milsurp pistols I have:

RG23 snub
RG23 long barrel
Raven MP25
Phoenix HP22 with both short and long barrel

All of them are alot of fun. I shoot them somewhat infrequently but they work fine when I do.

I had to ship back the HP22 after about 3k-3.5k rounds because of a frame crack but it still worked when I sent it in. They sent me a new gun and an extra mag. If I'd changed the dinky recoil spring it might have lived a longer life but I can't say for sure.

PaulKersey3
April 27, 2012, 07:33 AM
Second on the Jennings J22. Had a friend give me one years ago for gas money. Nice little pocket gun.

Kiln
April 27, 2012, 07:40 AM
Damn with all the positive reviews on the Jennings J22 I just might buy one and try it out. One of the new ones with warranty though. I'm not afraid to have to work on one a bit to make it run right.

loose noose
April 27, 2012, 09:55 AM
I knew George Jennings thru my father in law, in fact he loaned George the money to start his business way back when. In fact they started the Ravens arms business also.

MedWheeler
April 27, 2012, 10:38 AM
My J-22, purchased new in 1987, has seen several hundred rounds through it, most of which were CCI MiniMags. It's remarkably accurate out to about ten yeard or so; haven't felt the need to try it beyond that. The only issue I had with it was when it field-stripped itself one day, but I was shooting a box of Stingers through it at the time. They don't like that.
I also own an HP-22A, and it's quite fun to shoot, too. Probably more so than my Ruger MK-II. The Ruger is just too "easy", I think.
And, I own one of the aforementioned Savage-Stevens falling-block single-shooters, a Model 89 lever-gun lookalike, complete with fake magazine tube under the barrel. Bought that at a gun show in 1987 or so for like $30.

writerinmo
April 27, 2012, 11:28 AM
Buddy has the Phoenix HP22a, and the wife and daughter fell in love with the little thing, and I have to admit I like it well enough that I went out and picked one up for $135 with just the short barrel. Tore it down and cleaned up all the casting flash before taking it out, the wife ran 200 rounds through it and I ran another 200 with only one hiccup, and that was on the 2nd round through it, didn't feed all the way. After that it was just bang bang bang. More accurate than I expected, no problems keeping everything inside a 6" target at 7 yards. I bought spare recoil springs though, just not sure when I'll be changing them yet, I guess just keep an eye on them and see if there's any indicators that it might be needing it.

I had a couple of Hi Points a few years ago, bought the .40 for $160 out the door, it went bang every time and was very accurate, just big and clunky. The wife picked up a used C9 with the compensator on it, called Hi Point up and had them send me new recoil spring, extractor and spring, firing pin and spring, three days later had them in hand at NO CHARGE to me. Same with it, no more than a truck or range gun, definetly not a carry piece even though they were 100% functioning for me, just too dang heavy, and I didn't care for the lack of a striker block safety on them.

tech30528
April 27, 2012, 11:36 AM
Damn with all the positive reviews on the Jennings J22 I just might buy one and try it out. One of the new ones with warranty though. I'm not afraid to have to work on one a bit to make it run right.
Saw one recently in the LGS for $79. Considering the lifetime warranty I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up if I didn't already have one.

Kiln
April 27, 2012, 12:12 PM
Buddy has the Phoenix HP22a, and the wife and daughter fell in love with the little thing, and I have to admit I like it well enough that I went out and picked one up for $135 with just the short barrel. Tore it down and cleaned up all the casting flash before taking it out, the wife ran 200 rounds through it and I ran another 200 with only one hiccup, and that was on the 2nd round through it, didn't feed all the way. After that it was just bang bang bang. More accurate than I expected, no problems keeping everything inside a 6" target at 7 yards. I bought spare recoil springs though, just not sure when I'll be changing them yet, I guess just keep an eye on them and see if there's any indicators that it might be needing it.

I had a couple of Hi Points a few years ago, bought the .40 for $160 out the door, it went bang every time and was very accurate, just big and clunky. The wife picked up a used C9 with the compensator on it, called Hi Point up and had them send me new recoil spring, extractor and spring, firing pin and spring, three days later had them in hand at NO CHARGE to me. Same with it, no more than a truck or range gun, definetly not a carry piece even though they were 100% functioning for me, just too dang heavy, and I didn't care for the lack of a striker block safety on them.
I'd change them every 1000-1500 rounds. They're pretty flimsy springs and it might help lengthen the gun's lifespan. With how cheap the springs are, why not?

larryh1108
April 27, 2012, 02:41 PM
I change mine every 500-800 rounds. They are flimsy and cheap. When they start to wear you begin to get failure to return to full battery. Once I get a couple I put a new spring in and it's fine again. I think they're only $3.75 or so. I buy them 5 at a time and always have them in my range bag. Great little pistols!

hang fire
April 27, 2012, 04:56 PM
Ryanxia: fact, out of all my guns (and some are over $1,000) I like my Mosin Nagant the best.

You are not alone, few years ago I bought a prebubbarized MN carbine for 25 bucks. I removed rear sight and scout scoped it with a back up sight, and it is my favorite over the safe queens. With heavy HC boolits, the accuracy from the 20" barrel is amazing. I can no longer shoot as good as I once thought. But a bud of mine who is an excelllent shot, shakes his head in disgust when he can do better with it than he can with his expensive rifles.

Scoped.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010313.jpg

Back up sight if scope fails in the field.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010360.jpg

Jim NE
April 27, 2012, 11:44 PM
I like something about the SNS stuff, too. So much so that I bought a FIE derringer recently for under a buck. I used to own guns of this quality. AS soon as I shot it, however, I remembered all the things I didn't like about the cheap stuff. I sold it.

That's the thing...all those junk guns I used to own I said "so long" to along time ago.

There are some less expensive guns like Hi Point and Kel Tec and Heritage Rough Riders that are much better guns than their prices would lead you to believe. Most others in that price range or less I wouldn't bother to own. I have heard decent things about Pheonix, but I paid $199 for a NEW S&W 22a (on sale) that's just outstanding. What's the point of trying to do better that that?

exavid
April 28, 2012, 01:26 AM
I bought a lightly used Jennings .22 in the early 80s for $25. It wasn't much and the trigger was like pulling a cat through a knothole by the tail but it shot just about every time I managed to pull the trigger. At 50 feet it was keyholing but at closer range it wasn't too bad, just bad. I did have more than $25 worth of entertainment with the thing.

kozak6
April 28, 2012, 01:32 AM
A friend of mine has a Phoenix Arms HP22. It's not unusual for it to malfunction on every single round in the magazine in a different way, and it's so horrifically inaccurate that a simple soda can at 20 feet is out of the question.

Shooting it is a waste of .22 lr. I'd just as soon melt the pistol in an old pot.

Another friend briefly owned a Bryco 9mm. The first round would always fire, and it shot to point of aim and was relatively accurate. Then, it might fire as many as 3 rounds in a row before malfunctioning. Sometimes it would choke on every round except the first.

With the Bryco, my favorite malfunction was the takedown button activating while shooting, causing the slide to almost detach from the frame.

Shooting is fun, but I'd rather buy ammo instead of a gun that doesn't work.

mr.trooper
April 28, 2012, 01:55 AM
The thing that I always though was quite impressing about Pheonix Arms is the availability of spare parts...

Of course, they DO have a warranty service to fix broken guns at no cost, but you can actually order any spare part you want strait off their website - even the trigger group and safety parts.

Try calling up Beretta or Sig and asking them to send you a new sear or disconnector, and to do it for $3. The answer will be NO, because they don't hand out parts for their guns. Phoenix actually lets anyone who wants spare parts on hand just up and order them for a few dollars.

That's cool.

Fishslayer
April 28, 2012, 02:00 AM
My Hi Point C9 is surprisingly accurate and reliable. And I'm the expensive 1911 and AR guy.

Don't own one myself, but I would never call a Hi Point "junk." They do what they're supposed to do and by all accounts they do it well.

Now... a $3K AR with 30 pounds of optics and miscellaneous foo fooraw...:scrutiny:

Kiln
April 28, 2012, 02:13 AM
Anybody got any experience with the Cobra CA380? I mean first hand experience not I knew a guy that new a guy that had his hand blown off by a Cobra pistol.

There's a new one in a local shop for $130, as far as cheap guns go they carry Hi Point, Cobra, and the Phoenix HP22.

I know most people will probably say "get a Hi Point" and at some point I probably will but they aren't as compact as the CA380 is and are $40 higher at all local shops. I just want one as an infrequent plinker/neat looking shiny chrome gun.

JERRY
April 28, 2012, 02:13 AM
i had a Raven .25acp back in the 80's that would shoot as fast as you could pull the trigger, upside down, sideways, normal grip, upside down with pinky trigger....that thing fired anyway i could think of with 50gr. fmj. ive yet to own a 1911 that would do the same.

Guns&Religion
April 28, 2012, 02:39 AM
I hope I don't anger any Taurus fans here, but my Taurus 94 really was a junk gun (though I actually enjoy shooting it now).

When I first bought it, the hammer would not strike hard enough to fire the rounds about half the time, so I sent it back to the factory, and they fixed that problem by making the trigger pull extreemly hard. The trigger developed a severe snagging problem shortly after that and I was so frustrated with it I put it away dirty for several months. (:uhoh: I know, I will catch hell from some people here for that). I sent it back to the factory 2 more times, for 2 more unsuccessfull fixes, after which a Taurus rep told me they would not attempt another fix.

I thought about selling it, but I couldn't think of anyone I knew that I hated that much.

2 years passed, and I pulled it out of the box again. With nothing to lose, I decided to try a radical fix that I had read on some Taurus forum. I took off the panel, exposing the trigger action, and poured into it a generous amount of metal polish. I then loaded the revolver with spent 22 cases, and proceeded to dry fire it repeatedly, with the intention of smoothing out the action.

(It didn't work, after about 150 trigger pulls, the action completely froze up).

After another month, I called Taurus and asked if they could look at it again. This time I got a helpfull agent who had me send the gun back in. I got the gun back with a heavy, but smooth trigger pull. (It's actually very accurate in single action).

Now I use it for trigger finger exercises at the range.

Anyway, that's the kind of fun you can only have with a junk gun.



It still has a very hard trigger pull, but now it's at least somewhat smooth and consistent. It was cheap, but when shooting single action, I can get the groups just about as small as I can with my Ruger Single Six.

TXdefender
April 28, 2012, 11:16 AM
Don't own one myself, but I would never call a Hi Point "junk." They do what they're supposed to do and by all accounts they do it well.

At one time I was skeptical but now after owning one and shooting it I wouldn't. It's my ATV gun, just throw it in the ATV and not worry about it when riding.

Now... a $3K AR with 30 pounds of optics and miscellaneous foo fooraw...:scrutiny:

Nothing wrong with a $3K AR either :D

Awsomepossum
April 28, 2012, 08:46 PM
I could have bought 3 ravens at an pawn shop for 25$ apiece, but aready haveing one, I passed.I dont shoot my raven often, 25 acp ammo is too expensive.

7mmsavage
April 28, 2012, 09:04 PM
Like some others have mentioned, some junk guns are just that. My first handgun, purchased on a tight budget almost as soon as I was legally able, was a Llama 1911 style 9mm. It wouldn't shoot 2 rounds in a row without a failure to eject/feed. That was many years ago, and if I had it now I'd probably try to fix it, and even enjoy the challenge, but back then as a gun noob it was nothing but a piece of frustrating junk.

foghornl
April 29, 2012, 06:25 PM
My closest to a "junk gun" would be my snubby .38Spl, an RG. not sure what model RG it is, but it resembles a mdl 10 Smith

Beak50
April 29, 2012, 07:41 PM
Of all my guns I always "go to"my old M-44 Moisin-nagant that I think I paid 40.00 for about 20+years ago.to put an animal down.I have never hunted with it though.

roadchoad
April 30, 2012, 10:20 AM
I have to say, if the gun works and/or makes you smile, it's not "junk." I own many inexpensive guns that all work great for my needs.

Ryanxia
April 30, 2012, 11:40 AM
I once got several guns from a friend that were left to him and he didn't want.They were a bit rusty and I had to spend some time to clean them up but in the end I was glad to be able to restore guns that otherwise would have been unshootable in another few years.

JR47
April 30, 2012, 12:35 PM
Junk guns? I've always felt that this was the definition for individual guns, not entire lines.

When Maryland decided to forbid the purchase of many of the small caliber guns, I bought a Raven MP25, a Jennings J22, and a Bryco 380. The Raven and Bryco are both chromed, the Jennings has the black Teflon finish. I cleaned all three up, lubed them, stuck them in the safe, and forgot about them for several years.

One day, I figured that a little gravel-pit time would do all of my "cheap" guns good. So, the Raven, the Bryco, the Jennings, a rim-fire RG, and a Gradoga .25 ACP went out to shoot. Started at 5 yards, and "broke them in with 100 rounds of assorted ammo. After that, 10 yards, 15 yards, and, for the Jennings and the Gradoga, 20 yards.

None of these guns cost $100, new. They tended to be reliable once broken in, and were far more accurate than I was led to believe, especially inside of 15 yards. Brought them back home, cleaned, inspected, and lubed them all, and put them away again.

So, these all functioned 100% after the first 100 rounds. They were minute-of-bad-guy accurate, and none broke. What more could they have done? I have semi-autos by Sig, Colt, and HK that could not do that until they'd been back to the factory multiple times.

Anyone who tells us that entire lines of guns are bad because they bought a bad one is blowing smoke up your butt. Guns are tools, and have specific purposes. Doing things that are beyond the scope of the design isn't a flaw in the gun, it's in the shooter. Try giving your mid-80s J-frame a steady diet of +P and +P+, and see how long it lasts. Same with your Model 19.

My Model 617 S&W ate it's internals at under 100 rounds. Locking the gun up so badly that it required the services of a gunsmith to enable the cylinder to be freed to empty unfired rounds from it, allowing it to be returned. It took more than 6 weeks to get it back, too.

Now, to me, THAT'S a "junk gun". :)

Kiln
May 1, 2012, 05:29 AM
Alot of "blow your hand off" BS is unfortunately still repeated by tons of gun enthusiast today because:

1. Anti gun groups spread the rumor that cheap guns would fly apart in your hand and almost always kill you. Even your little Jennings J22 is more powerful than an army issue fragmentation grenade. Why do we know these indisputable facts? Because Sarah Brady's cronies said so thats why. The Brady Campaign is just looking out for your personal safety, that is why they don't want you to buy a cheap gun if you're poor, honest. To add insult to injury they've even convinced pro gun advocates that the reason cheap guns are bad is for their own safety. In fact until recently many people claimed that Hi Points wouldn't last a box of ammo without a catastrophic failure and alot of people still think that RG revolvers won't fire a cylinder full of ammo without exploding.

2. Groups like the Brady Campaign are very persuasive to alot of people, especially since many media outlets are behind them. In the not so distant past any time a gun was used in a crime it was demonized by the media and the company was often shut down by lawsuits. The sheep that live in this nation are unbelievably easy to sway just by a simple news report.

3. Before internet forums were popular or even thought of alot of people relied on gun store chatter for information. You think the local gun store employees are going to talk up a $75 Raven when they have $300 Smiths in the case to sell?

4. Alot of people repeat crap they've heard. Tons of people repeat "this gun self destructed" stories that they heard from someone they knew. In many cases the person in question simply heard that story from someone else who heard it from someone else and the cycle continues.

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