Ted Nugent and baited hunting


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rajb123
April 26, 2012, 03:04 PM
Ok, so I read recently where Ted pleaded guilty to a charge of shooting and transporting an illegal bear in Alaska. Apparently, he shot a bear that was not recovered and then, on the same hunt, he shot another bear which, according to the game laws, is taking one too many bears.

He paid a $10,000 fine and agreed to a one year suspension of hunting priviledges. He will also do a public service video promoting hunting sportsmenship.

I turned on the Discovery channel last weekend and Ted was bow hunting white tails over some baited water hole. I beleive the bait was cut corn.

Anyway, I have hunted for 40 years in the north east and we don't allow hunting over bait, becasue it is not sporting.

I hope Ted's public service message avoids telling people to hunt over baited land since I don't consider that as sporting...

Yeh, I know it is legal in some spots.

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Sam1911
April 26, 2012, 03:13 PM
I hope Ted's public service message avoids telling people to hunt over baited land since I don't consider that as sporting...

Yeh, I know it is legal in some spots.

Hopefully, he'll just tell folks to make sure they know and follow the laws in the jurisdiction in which they'll be hunting. That'd be a lot simpler than insisting that everyone call up rajb123 (or Sam1911) to check what they think is "sporting."

As they say, "Tried to do the right thing and play it straight / The 'right thing' changes from state to state."

Hunting over bait is evil and naughty where the law says it is wrong, and only makes perfect sense where the law allows.

Hunting with dogs is evil and naughty where the law says it is wrong, and only makes perfect sense where the law allows.

Hunting with explosive ordinance is evil and naughty where the law says it is wrong, and only makes perfect sense where the law allows.

X-Rap
April 26, 2012, 03:28 PM
TN was on the radio today talking about the Alaska charges, his claim was that his lawyer who was also an outfitter as well as the judge were unaware of the obscure law and that the charges were pressed by the feds whose land it was on. He also said that so far as they could tell no one else had ever been charged with that crime. I must say that in my life I have never heard of any law that said if your projectile hits an animal you must punch your tag.
He had some comments on the CA Charge as well but I didn't catch enough to really comment but I think he has more to say about it. Baiting laws are subject to a lot of interpretation, true there is the obvious as in dumping a feed sack or setting up an automatic feeder and there is not so obvious of setting up on an old mineral block station which is illegal in CO.
Ethics ? are they dictated by law? character? tradition?

A big part of what TN had to say today seemed to be the way the authorities are elevating some of these charges to the level of felony, it is worth paying attention since that puts things into a whole different ballpark as far as violations go.

MCgunner
April 26, 2012, 03:28 PM
I bait, have a feeder and it feeds twice a day automatically. What's wrong with THAT? It's the only way I can hunt small acreage effectively and it's a way of life in Texas. You don't like it, don't do it, but don't tell me how to hunt. Yankees need to stay the hell out of Texas if they don't like it. :rolleyes:

Here's mine. Best feeder I've owned, yet. :D Coons have a hard time with it and the hogs ain't been able to mess it up.

http://www.moultriefeeders.com/productdetail.aspx?id=mfh-ezf30t

http://oi41.tinypic.com/168anp3.jpg

jrdolall
April 26, 2012, 03:51 PM
T.N. is a public figure so what he does will get more scrutiny and he needs to know the laws of whatever state he is hunting in. If it was a guided hunt then I would expect the outfitter to know the laws. I understand that it may be an "obscure" law but if it is on the books then the hunter is accountable.

As Steve Martin said, "Solution to overpopulation, death penalty for parking violations". Making a hunting violation like this a felony is a joke. Night hunting from a public road, maybe, as that can include endangering lives.

Hunting over bait is illegal in Alabama but every store in the state sells bags or "deer corn". I know that 100% of that corn is being fed to chickens and animals that are not being hunted;) It is legal to hunt over a white salt block but illegal to hunt over a brown mineral block. It is perfectly legal to plant corn, disk it or leave it standing, and shoot deer as they eat it. We can plant any of the many food plot blends that have non-native plants in them and hunt over those but no "baiting" is allowed.

There is a lot of discussion on the pros and cons of feeding and a lot of it centers on disease transmission due to the bait getting deer closer together than is natural. There is no discussion of banning the feeding of deer, only the hunting of baited deer. I guess deer can't catch diseases if the feeder is not being actively hunted.

wyohome
April 26, 2012, 03:52 PM
Most Yankees stay the hell out of Texas. I wish more southern 'hunters' would stay the hell out of Wyoming. I can see calling that 'deer harvesting' or something similar, but 'hunting'?
Hunting: The act of conducting a search for something

I just took this picture of a rabbit that lives in my woodpile. He comes out when I open the door, anticipating a handout. If I came out with a gun, would I be a rabbit hunter?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Deaver/034da3ee.jpg

rajb123
April 26, 2012, 04:38 PM
I've read a couple of stores in the press about Ted's Alaska bear hunt...

It is not clear to me how the authoirities came to know about the violation and maybe it does not matter. I would assume they knew only by viewing Ted's TV show, but that is a guess. One thing seems clear, Ted probably did not turn himself in.

As others have said, it is his duty to know the hunting laws before the arrow flies... Frankly, I'm surprised that with multiple violations, his hunting TV show has not been yanked.

I think the law in Alaska makes sence. You should not be rewarded for shooting a big game animal and not recovering it. Unfortunately, this happens too often with bow hunts.

To me, hunting a standing field of corn does not seem the same as hunting over a corn feeder, but I can respect the views of others, including those hunters who live in Texas.

dogrunner
April 26, 2012, 04:47 PM
Yeah, huntin' with dogs is evil! Real evil! Been taken to task for that practice by more than one new age 'expert' (I'd add, mostly from NY or NJ, coupled with the statement ""We don't do that up North!").......now...Huntin' with bait tho, just stinks!

I intend to stay evil, I simply can't understand the attraction in sitting over a stinkin' pile of rotting garbage and considering that 'huntin'! Hellsfire, I really can't even begin to understand just how you Texicans can hunt in fenced enclosures..........don't care HOW big they may be, and call that 'free range' huntin'!

I really don't pop a cap on much anymore, but when I do it is truly free range, not canned, and damned sure a fair kill!

On the other hand tho, I have a lotta friends that've given up the dog runnin', mainly because they've gotten old and lazy.....sayin' that's for young fella's (by the way, I'm pushing that 72 mark hard and I STILL push those walkers), and resorted to the timered feed stations........I guess it's just what turns your noodle, but I still have a hard time sittin' over a stinkin' pile of garbage and considering it 'sport'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And by the way, I'd have to include the deer feeders along with the foregoing sentiments......it just AIN't sportin'!


As an after thought I'll add that we doggers DON'T leave wounded game!

Double Naught Spy
April 26, 2012, 06:08 PM
Anyway, I have hunted for 40 years in the north east and we don't allow hunting over bait, becasue it is not sporting.

LOL, I just love the notion of "sporting" and "fair chase" rules/laws. I am pretty sure the prey don't consider it to be sporting from them to be shot by a hunter or that the use of implements beyond those that are biological are part of fair chase.

I know y'all can't use bait, but that doesn't stop you from harvesting deer from agricultural fields or by sources of water (at least in some NE states). Some of the NE states will certainly let you plant a food plot that you can use for hunting deer. So, you are still baiting if you use these areas, but your system of baiting is just longer term or already in place.

TN was on the radio today talking about the Alaska charges, his claim was that his lawyer who was also an outfitter as well as the judge were unaware of the obscure law and that the charges were pressed by the feds whose land it was on. He also said that so far as they could tell no one else had ever been charged with that crime. I must say that in my life I have never heard of any law that said if your projectile hits an animal you must punch your tag.

More excuses by TN? In CA, the guide was blamed as well. So what TN is saying is that yet again he has hired inept people to handle his legal responsibilities and that they yet again failed to take care of him. You have to wonder just what sort of guides he hires when they are not up on the law and if his guides or lawyer has actually spent any time actually reading and understanding the laws in the states where he hunts. Of course what this is really telling is that TN isn't bothering to review the laws himself either.

As for the judge supposedly not being familiar with the law, that isn't a big surprise. It isn't likely for any judge to have an eidetic memory for the totality of all of the laws which are covered by his court. Even if he had read the law at one time, if it hasn't been brought up in his/her court, he may not remember it.

So none of those folks knows of any other persons prosecuted under that "obscure" law? So what? Being the first or the first in memory isn't really relevant to anything concerning the validity of the law. Of course, most hunters don't broadcast their hunting transgression via a hunting show on TV that can be viewed and reviewed at leisure by law enforcement.

So why don't more folks know of the law? Apparently, it is a new law, only 4 or 5 years old. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/23/ted-nugent-faces-jail-black-bear-killing-alaska_n_1446974.html So I think the notion of the law being obscure is quite misleading. In this case, "obscure" just means that none of the folks involved were current on recent changes in the relevant hunting laws.

Also, TN's lawyer isn't a guide in Alaska. He is an Assistant Guide. The requirements to be an assistant guide do not stipulate having an extensive knowledge of the state's hunting laws. It just means that you are an adult with X amount of hunting experience in Alaska, not a criminal, have first aid training, are going to be employed by a guide and have paid the license fee. So the notion that TN's lawyer is a "guide" and wasn't familiar with the law isn't a surprise. Assistant Guides are required to know the law in order to get a license to be an Assistant Guide. http://commerce.alaska.gov/occ/pub/gui4009.pdf An assistant guide is actually the 2nd level BELOW being a Registered Guide.

It must be embarrassing to publically note that you are an Assistant Guide in Alaska and a lawyer by trade, but haven't kept track of the legal aspects pertaining to guiding. You would think a lawyer would do a better job.

rajb123
April 26, 2012, 06:15 PM
Please explan the part about a fellony. When did this become known? I suppose ted would not be allowed to have guns as a result' right?

cottswald
April 26, 2012, 06:43 PM
I just took this picture of a rabbit that lives in my woodpile. He comes out when I open the door, anticipating a handout. If I came out with a gun, would I be a rabbit hunter?
If you're lookin to put a rabbit dish on the table what difference does it make what you call it? One mans huntin is another mans killin. My god fellas, divide and conquer, that's how it'll end for all of us.

And "sporting" is a relative term. If you think it ain't "sporting" then don't sport it.

I'm goin fishing in the morning, reckon I'll bait my hook!-- I suppose that make's me a fish killer!:banghead:

MCgunner
April 26, 2012, 06:51 PM
Most Yankees stay the hell out of Texas. I wish more southern 'hunters' would stay the hell out of Wyoming. I can see calling that 'deer harvesting' or something similar, but 'hunting'?
Hunting: The act of conducting a search for something

Ever "hunt" doves? I call it dove shooting sometimes. Ever hunt ducks over decoys with a call? I do that all the time. Just another technique. Brings 'em in, though. I don't sit out there and wait for 'em to fly over me, put it that way. Would you think pass shooting more "sporting"? Not me, 80 percent of duck hunting is proper deek set and calling. That's why I love it so much. I wouldn't do it if all I could do is pass shoot 'em. Ever "hunt" gators? It's more like trot line fishing, but you get to shoot 'em in the head before you take 'em off the hook.

Please explan the part about a fellony. When did this become known? I suppose ted would not be allowed to have guns as a result' right?

Ted might be banned from owning guns, surely would give up his carry permit. BUT, in the immortal words of G. Gordon Liddy, his WIFE owns all the guns. :D

Shurshot
April 26, 2012, 07:01 PM
I hate to bring this post back on topic... but

check this out. how was Ted to know?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/nugent-tells-beck-about-the-alaskan-hunting-trip-that-made-him-a-target-of-the-feds/

jrdolall
April 26, 2012, 07:18 PM
"Sporting" sure is a relative term. Come on down to Alabama and hunt in my friend's "enclosure". Over 1,000 acres of Alabama hardwoods, pine forest and creek bottom. Take off walking at one fence and call me when you get to the other fence. Woops...no cell phones so just yell and I am sure I will hear you. I don't hunt over corn. I have but have not found that it helps bring in the type of deer I want to bag. Yearlings and fawns in my experience. That was in FL where it is legal.
I used to really enjoy dog hunting but I don't really think it is more sporting than hunting over bait. Find a track set the dogs to run the deer past the hunters where they bang away with whatever firearm is legal? Fun and exciting maybe but not really "sporting".

MCgunner
April 26, 2012, 07:18 PM
Left wing witch hunt with command and control inside the beltway is my bet. they have tried this with Rush Limbaugh many times, most recently over a disagreement over whether college coeds deserved free contraceptives. They must have given up on Rush. It's bounced off him several times already.

Didn't wanna bring up politics, but that's exactly what THIS is.

I don't hunt over corn. I have but have not found that it helps bring in the type of deer I want to bag.

It CAN work on decent bucks early in the season, especially in the rut, but most times you are exactly right.

ZeroJunk
April 26, 2012, 07:22 PM
I guess if you really want to be sporting try hunting where the game is least likely to be.

rajb123
April 26, 2012, 08:42 PM
...the bunny is very cute; don't hurt him or there will be war!...

whetrock
April 26, 2012, 10:56 PM
I too hunt over a automated corn feeder and grew up coon and coyote hunting with my dad and grandpa with their hounds and running dogs. All in all while this style of "effective hunting" might not be particluarly attractive to some who hold their romanticized view of picture perfect hunting for some of us it's the most practical and worthwhile means to harvest wild game. While I can't deny I'm not the sportsman some of you claim to be what works for me works and I'd realy appreciate it if people would get off of my case and let me hunt on my property the way I feel is best for me and my land. If you don't like hunting over bait or with hounds don't do it, nobody's forcing you.

Carl N. Brown
April 26, 2012, 11:04 PM
I get a hunting regs brochure every year I hunt, and read it closely. Miss one little change and you can be in hot water, doing something that was legal in the past.

Art Eatman
April 26, 2012, 11:04 PM
We already did a Nugent thread.

We don't need the tired old argument where one guy says his way is the only way there is to hunt.

Enough.

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