Rimfire shooters, educate me


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mnhntr
April 26, 2012, 04:20 PM
I am going to buy a Savage rimfire rifle soon. I was seriously thinking the 93 17FV was it but I already own a Ruger single six that can shoot .22mag so I can buy only one type of ammo if I get a 22 wmr FV. Is the accuracy that much better in the 17HMR or not? I read a Chuck Hawks article claiming the .22mag cannot hold a candle to the 17HMR in accuracy. This rifle will be used for mostly target and Pdogs.

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clamman
April 26, 2012, 04:38 PM
I have the single six in .22 and .22 mag. The .22 is the best shooter. You do realize you are comparing a rifle to a revolver right? I also have the Savage 17 and I can get ragged one hole groups at 50 yards easy. Remember .17 ammo is expensive. I bought a CZ 455 in .22 and after some work I can match my .17 with Wolf MT. What distance are the dogs going to be? I wouldn't hesitate shooting prairie dogs with my CZ at 100 yards off a rest. A .17 should reach out to 150 easy, but wind will be more of a issue. As far as 22 mag in a long gun, easy answer. No.

mnhntr
April 26, 2012, 04:45 PM
I have the single six in .22 and .22 mag. The .22 is the best shooter. You do realize you are comparing a rifle to a revolver right? I also have the Savage 17 and I can get ragged one hole groups at 50 yards easy. Remember .17 ammo is expensive. I bought a CZ 455 in .22 and after some work I can match my .17 with Wolf MT. What distance are the dogs going to be? I wouldn't hesitate shooting prairie dogs with my CZ at 100 yards off a rest. A .17 should reach out to 150 easy, but wind will be more of a issue. As far as 22 mag in a long gun, easy answer. No.
I should have rephrased this I am not trying to compare the single six and the rifle I only mentioned because of sharing the WMR ammo.

NeuseRvrRat
April 26, 2012, 06:23 PM
As far as 22 mag in a long gun, easy answer. No.

:scrutiny:

k soze
April 26, 2012, 06:59 PM
entire thread here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=654179


I have Savages in .22 WMR and .17 HMR. The .17 can shoot tighter goops but... the .22WMR is more consistent at 100 yards and I get right around 1 moa accuracy all the time. My .17 goes from .5 moa to 2 moa depending on conditions.

True some of this is the difference in the guns but I would take my .22 WMR to the field before my .17 HMR because I know what it will do that day.

Sniper66
April 26, 2012, 07:00 PM
The .17HMR is a far better p-dog round than a .22 since it has much better killing power and range. usually, I do not shoot p-dogs further than 100 yds with a .17HMR. It can do it, but where I shoot it is almost always windy. I'm told the newer .22 Mag ammo is really accurate and good out to 100 yds or so, but I have no experience with it. I do, however, have lots of experience with a variety of .22s and both of my .17HMRs. The .17HMR is much better. Someone mentioned expense in reference to the 17HMR; I usually pay $10 for a box of 50, which is still much cheaper than centerfire. .

CraigC
April 27, 2012, 09:47 AM
The .17HMR almost always shoots better than a comparable .22Mag. A good .22Mag will shoot 1-1.5MOA with preferred loads, while a good .17HMR will halve that. As long as the wind is calm, my $350 Savage will shoot half MOA regularly. I've used both rounds extensively and consider the .22Mag a good 150yd cartridge and more effective than the .17 within that range. The .17HMR can be taken out to 200-225yds easily on small varmints. Both cartridges work well on predators up to coyote within 100yds. I settled on the 20gr XTP load for the .17 because it penetrates well and is more consistently accurate. It is mandatory for predators.

303tom
April 27, 2012, 10:12 AM
I'm not familiar with what is on paper, but I have both & have shot the hell out of both & if I knew then what I know now, I would have never bought the .17.............

finnwolf64
April 27, 2012, 11:13 AM
I bought a .17hmr about a year ago & I'm very impressed with its accuracy. I'm not so impressed with the "knock down" power of a .17 when hunting & would probably recommend the .22 mag over the .17hmr

ms6852
April 27, 2012, 12:50 PM
Stay with the 22 magnum. Comparing the 22mag to the 17hmr is like comparing a 30-06 to a 243. I still do not understand why people claim that you can not shoot a 22 beyond 100 yds with accuracy. I blame the shooter not the caliber. I will gladly take out 10/22 to a prairie dog hunt and shoot it as far as 200 yds. The advantage the 17 cal has over the 22 is speed, but still gets whipped around by the wind at almost triple the cost.

CraigC
April 27, 2012, 01:36 PM
I still do not understand why people claim that you can not shoot a 22 beyond 100 yds with accuracy.
Because accuracy begins to fall apart at 75yds. A half-MOA at 50yd rifle quickly becomes a -1MOA rifle at 100yds. At 200yds, range estimation is critical because it is dropping so quickly. Something along the lines of 40" from a 50yd zero. Accuracy goes from 1MOA to 2-3MOA. So I have no idea why you think a .22LR makes a good 200yd prairie dog cartridge.

If you're shooting MOA at 200yds, you could win every long range rimfire match in the country.

ms6852
April 28, 2012, 02:26 AM
Because accuracy begins to fall apart at 75yds. A half-MOA at 50yd rifle quickly becomes a -1MOA rifle at 100yds. At 200yds, range estimation is critical because it is dropping so quickly. Something along the lines of 40" from a 50yd zero. Accuracy goes from 1MOA to 2-3MOA. So I have no idea why you think a .22LR makes a good 200yd prairie dog cartridge.

If you're shooting MOA at 200yds, you could win every long range rimfire match in the country.
I shoot my 10/22 all the time at 230 yds breaking clays, and fragments or golf balls being pretty consistent with it too. Granted I do not shoot prairie dogs since there aren't any in the city but the point I'm trying to make is that the 22lr should not be limited to 25 or 50 yds. What better way to learn to shoot against the wind by than by regularly shooting a 22 at 200 yds. With a 22 magnum it is definitely doable at 200 yds.

mavracer
April 28, 2012, 09:31 AM
I live in Kansas so I've been waiting a couple years for a day that wasn't windy to see if dad's 17 will actually shoot tighter groups than my old 22mag. Until then I'm just gonna keep my gun.

303tom
April 28, 2012, 10:09 AM
Some of you guys act like it is just outrages to shoot at something 200 yds. away with a .22LR, ever read on the box where it says (Dangerous within 11/4 miles) hell that`s 2,200 yds. is there any reason to think it won`t go just 200 yds. NO!

CraigC
April 28, 2012, 11:21 AM
Granted I do not shoot prairie dogs since there aren't any in the city...
Yet you recommend the practice?


...the point I'm trying to make is that the 22lr should not be limited to 25 or 50 yds.
Who said or even implied that???


Some of you guys act like it is just outrages to shoot at something 200 yds.
Some of you guys act like we have not done A LOT of shooting at +200yds and done so with match grade rifles, using match grade ammo, with high powered optics on canted mounts, on paper to see what is REALLY happening. This custom 10/22 ain't wearing a Bushnell Elite 10x for nothing.

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/rifles/large/IMG_8118b.jpg

Bushpilot
April 28, 2012, 12:12 PM
First off, I personally don't think I would base my decision too much on already owning a 22 mag revolver and just buying one type of ammo. It just doesn’t seem like that much of an advantage in this situation to lend much weight to it (unlike 130 years ago when crossing the prairie on horseback with two guns to feed). Second, out of the two cartridges you're considering, I'd probably go with the .17 if prairie dogs are your main quarry. If you were shooting much larger stuff too, like chucks or an occasional coyote, then I would say 22 mag. The 17 will get blown around more from the wind then a 22 mag but shoots quite a bit flatter. The 17 on a calm day will probably shoot better groups but a decent 22 mag can still shoot plenty good enough to do the job within it's effective range. I don't know why the 17 typically shoots better then the 22 mag but if I had to venture a guess I'd say it's because, being so much newer, the dies, tooling and equipment used to produce the ammo are newer, less worn and able to produce it to tighter tolerances. Plus, all of the 17 ammo out there is all top shelf stuff, whereas the 22 mag ammo probably has a broader quality range. Again, this is just a guess on my part. And lastly, I have both and like both however, for the type of shooting you describe I prefer my 22 Hornet over either. Good Luck with your future Pdog rifle !

CraigC
April 28, 2012, 02:07 PM
Excellent post, BP!

mnhntr
April 29, 2012, 12:32 AM
Bushpilot, I will shoot a lot more paper than Pdogs. They will be an occasional or once a year trip to SD. I should add more to my thought on this. I have a Savage LRP in .260 and this rifle will be an economical practice rifle for trigger control and so forth. Hence the reason for the Savage with the accutrigger as my rifle choice. So with more info would you still go for the 17?

CraigC, great choice in scopes. I have the MIL/MIL 3200 elite on my LRP and think it is well worth $. To me it is the best value in tactical type scopes.

Bushpilot
April 29, 2012, 10:49 AM
Yeah, for what you're planning on using it for I would still go with the .17. I did make one error in my previous post though. After checking some ballistics charts it turns out that the 17 is less effected by wind then the 22 mag. The 17hmr bullet has a higher ballistic coefficient and goes faster then the 22 mag so it is less effected by the wind. A 17 hmr with a 10 mph cross wind is deflected 3 inches at 100 and 8 inches at 150. The 22 mag was 5 inches at 100 and 13 at 150. Maybe it just seems like the 17 is deflected more by the wind because since it shoots flatter I try to take more long shots with it then I do with the 22 mag.

The_Next_Generation
April 29, 2012, 05:09 PM
All of the 17 I've seen for sale is upwards of 20 cents a round. For that price, maybe you should consider a .223/5.56? A used Tikka or Remmy with an ok scope would allow you take longer (and more confident) shots. If you're gonna go the .22lr route, I can't say enough about my CZ 452 with a SWFA 16x :D

mnhntr
April 29, 2012, 06:09 PM
I already have a .223. I am buying this rifle to be close to the Savage LRP that i am using for long range stuff. It is going to serve a training purpose to use for trigger control, taget accusition and transfer.

TheRyno865
April 29, 2012, 09:21 PM
I have limited experience with the 22 mag but I will say the I live my Marlin xt17. I have taken 2 coyote at around 90-100 yards and both dropped with one shot. Shot placement was a factor though. The max I have shot at a bench rest rifle range is 200 yds and once you get the ammo that your rifle likes best you should have no problems taking a pdog at that distance unless the wind is over 10mph. I shot just the other day though with a strong wind and had a 2in drift left at 120yds.

TonyAngel
April 30, 2012, 08:15 PM
mnhntr, I shoot regularly with a bunch of guys that are AVID rimfire shooters. We shoot all kinds of matches, both organized and not so organized. We are all, at least, moderately successful and financially stable. My point is that with this group, at least one of us has owned one of just about everything worth trying in the world of rimfire and when one of us has it, we all put it through the wringer to see what it can do. It's not unusual for one of us to buy ammunition for the purpose of trying it in another's rifle. I'm just saying this to give a little backround.

Anyway, we've been through this WMR vs. HMR debate and our concensus is that the 17 is the way to go for accuracy. An added bonus is that the little 17 is a screamer and hits pretty hard too.

I mostly target shoot, so I spend most of my time shooting .22 long rifle; but for killing things, I think the nod would go to the 17.

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