M1 carbine history of this rifle


April 29, 2012, 03:06 AM
If you can help give this rifle a story of its own i will be very grateful
Anybody with just one clue will help with its history
see attachment for marking and pix.

Thanks THR

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Tim the student
April 29, 2012, 01:04 PM
I think you will have a very tough time coming up with the history of that rifle, any more than what you have already.

Good luck with it.

Ron James
April 29, 2012, 03:42 PM
If by history and story, you mean what individual used it and what theater or war, no possible way. Sorry about that.

Jim Watson
April 29, 2012, 05:06 PM
The US Army does not keep detailed records of the deployment and issue of smallarms.
There are a rare few guns traceable through things like SAS, but the vast majority aren't.

All that can be said of this one is that it was built late WW II, perhaps used in Korea, transferred to a police department, and then sold surplus. The rarity is that a gun from a government agency be released to citizen possession. They are usually scrapped. That guy must have been a heckuva mechanic on patrol cars.

There might be a book or www that will list some of those stamps to identify subcontractors and inspectors to add a little background to the carbine's manufacture and maintenance. Most are probably obscure markings applied by men long dead for records long lost.

Ron James
April 29, 2012, 08:17 PM
Being a ex Michigander I can attest to the fact that the Detroit Police Department has done some very strange things with excess firearms in the past, including selling them to street gangs. But of course that is all in the past, such a thing would never happen today. I had friends on both the Detroit and Chicago police force. No disrespect is meant toward the current department.

Jim K
April 29, 2012, 11:46 PM
I can help with a few more meanings of the markings, but searching for the actual history of that carbine is probably a lost cause unless some war hero wrote in his memoirs that he was issued carbine #6776863 and used it to wipe out a German Armored division.

The N is Niedner Rifle Co., Dowagiac, Mich. IRCO is International Register Co., Chicago. P.I. is Perry Fay Co., Ilyria, Ohio. The stock mark should be OI for S.E. Overton (a furniture maker), South Haven, Mich. The U is Underwood; the handguard mark W is Winchester, probably a replacement. The MU could be Marlin, made for Underwood.

It is very probable that many parts are not original; most carbines were rebuilt by the military at least once and often many times since manufacture, as well as being upgraded. In addition, civilian owners have replaced parts as needed, or even, in some cases, replaced replacement parts with parts marked like the originals so they could charge more for an "original" carbine.

On the magazines, SY and SEY are Seymour, who made many magazines for the U.S. Army. IS is probably International Sterling (the tableware company) who made magazines and oilers. None of the prime carbine contractors made magazines; the Army contracted separately for those from companies specializing in magazine manufacture.

The operating slide and barrel band/bayonet lug are post-WWII and I can't help with them.

Markings on carbine parts often had two letters, the first for the maker of the part and the second for the prime contractor for whom the part was made, hence OI = Overton for Inland.

There are a couple of books giving those markings; I used Larry L. Ruth's War Baby!, which I think is the best.


April 30, 2012, 09:33 PM
The only verifiable facts about who had it are that it was put into service with the military and transferred to the Detroit PD to eventually end up in the hands of your FIL. Who it was issued to, either in the military or PD, won't ever be known unless the individual put some sort of marking or note in the stock.

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