Israel's new double barrel assault rifle


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Dr_2_B
April 29, 2012, 10:05 AM
Very little information about this as yet, but I thought it'd be an interesting thread. Israeli company is putting finishing touches on a double barrel assault rifle (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/04/foghorn/silver-shadow-to-unveil-new-double-barreled-assault-rifle/).

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163594&stc=1&d=1335708190

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Tommygunn
April 29, 2012, 11:58 AM
:uhoh:---------TWICE THE CLEANING!!:rolleyes:

Hacker15E
April 29, 2012, 12:32 PM
I bet it's going to be the AR-15 version of this trainwreck:

http://personaldfence.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Double-Barrel-1911-1.jpg

jason41987
April 29, 2012, 12:40 PM
this has got to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard... are you lacking any and all faith in the 5.56 cartridge that youre putting so much emphasis into a double barrel rifle to shoot two rounds at once?... such as russias AN-94 which fires a second round before the first one even leaves the barrel?...

oh, but with 5.56 you can carry more ammo.... yeah, but apparently you need to fire twice as many... 30 shot magazine suddenly turns into 15 shots for the size and weight of 20 rounds of .308...

what a joke of a rifle... so much for the KISS rule of engineering eh?... their solution is to make some complicated double barrel rifle to double lethality, my solution is to get fire a bigger round

TurtlePhish
April 29, 2012, 12:42 PM
...does it come with red dot binoculars?

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 29, 2012, 12:56 PM
such as russias AN-94 which fires a second round before the first one even leaves the barrel?...


No it doesn't, it's doesn't have that high of a RoF. The intent of that feature of the AN-94 is to theoretically defeat body armor. Because of it's high RoF, it makes it easy to place two rounds into someone at distance. I would rather shoot an enemy twice then once. Also, judging by the BG tests, two rounds of 5.56 would do more damage then a single round of 7.62 NATO.

jason41987
April 29, 2012, 01:14 PM
youd rather hit someone twice than once?... so tell me, would you rather hit an opponent with two stones, or one boulder?

Comedian
April 29, 2012, 01:29 PM
youd rather hit someone twice than once?... so tell me, would you rather hit an opponent with two stones, or one slightly larger stone?Fixed it for you.

On topic: I'm interested to see what it is, although I doubt it will have anything substantial to offer. Seems like it would add a whole lot of extra weight for something that probably isn't a whole lot more effective than a rifle with a high cyclic burst mode (such as the above mentioned AN-94).

jason41987
April 29, 2012, 01:35 PM
btw.. 1800RPM = 30 rounds per second, which means .03 nanoseconds from one round to the next...

bullet travels at 900,000mm a second, meaning the bullet travels 900mm every nano second... with a 405mm barrel it takes about .45 nano seconds for the bullet to leave the barrel...

my math could be off, but its fairly close

jason41987
April 29, 2012, 01:37 PM
i wouldnt say slightly larger stone, kinetic energy is nearly double that for a .308 than a .223, to hit someone with 2,800ft/lbs of total energy would take two shots with a 5.56, one with a .308... so you are getting two shots out of one with greater simplicity, greater range, and greater accuracy with a single .308 cartridge

19-3Ben
April 29, 2012, 01:43 PM
If there is one thing I know about Israelis and firearms, it's that they are VERY practical people and they take their guns very seriously. If they actually put this thing in production as anything more than a moneymaker to sell to the American market, you can bet it will be reliable and a good fighting gun. I've got a LOT of faith in them.

Comedian
April 29, 2012, 01:47 PM
i wouldnt say slightly larger stone, kinetic energy is nearly double that for a .308 than a .223, to hit someone with 2,800ft/lbs of total energy would take two shots with a 5.56, one with a .308... so you are getting two shots out of one with greater simplicity, greater range, and greater accuracy with a single .308 cartridgeYou're making the assumption that kinetic energy is an accurate measure of wounding power. It isn't.

conhntr
April 29, 2012, 01:50 PM
I dont like the two muzzlebrakes spraying onto each other... Bore obstruction potentional.

R.W.Dale
April 29, 2012, 01:59 PM
The ever increasing need for more railed real estate necessitated the addition of another bbl and forend to hang things from

4v50 Gary
April 29, 2012, 02:08 PM
It will be a smashing success among the Tier 1 Tacticool Tribe who must have the latest and greatest new product whose greatest virtue is the princely price tag. :rolleyes:

I will lag behind at my pedestrian pace.

jason41987
April 29, 2012, 02:38 PM
its funny to see how people will go through such hard work to make something so complicated just to increase stopping power in their rifle, instead of going with the KISS rule and just fire a bigger cartridge

wally
April 29, 2012, 04:29 PM
1800RPM = 30 rounds per second, which means .03 nanoseconds from one round to the next...


I believe you confused nano with milli, same as the Dems seem to with millions and trillions :(

FNP45
April 29, 2012, 05:23 PM
While it might not be the most practical is far as; weight, over complicated design and impractical, I think it's cool. I get a kick out of unique different firearms. Like the double 1911 pictured above, you say train wreck, I say cool as hell I'd shoot it and have fun then hang it up on the wall. The AN94, yeah that's different to and I like it as well, would love to have one. Now some things like the tactical lever rifle from mossberg or the over marketed zombie sh*t is a bit much. unique is interesting but not always practical.
I think my attraction to different firearms stems from a 4 barrel 357 mag that a buddy of mine's dad had when I was a kid. That ones on the list for sure.

jason41987
April 29, 2012, 05:30 PM
yeah.. it was milliseconds.. but the maths still there... i just wonder how much research and design the russians went through just to make something to basically fire two rounds at once... russians have always been well known for the simplest of solutions, youd think they would have just started using a bigger cartridge... its not like the AK platform isnt capable of something between that of their 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R cartridges...

same for israelis.. adding the extra weight, complication, size, and quite possibly double the likeliness of a failure to feed or failure to extract, their design is even worse than the russians...

as for mossbergs tacticool leveraction with the quad rail and M4 stock... im thankful my office chair has arms to it, otherwise i would have fallen out of it for laughing so hard

Cosmoline
April 29, 2012, 05:45 PM
SXS creates all kinds of complexities and on a mass-produced assault rifle would be all but impossible to resolve. How are they going to get the barrels regulated? Even if they could, how would this point of impact be changed? Even if they are just going to keep them running parallel, getting each barrel to shoot truly parallel to the other is as difficult as getting them to cross over at the same point. It will turn the weapon into a short range bullet sprayer at best, unless they've done something very clever to resolve this problem.

I bet it's going to be the AR-15 version of this trainwreck:

The 1911 DB, however silly, is at least somewhat practical for its intended short-range use. Once you move beyond 25 yards, barrels in SxS configuration get more and more difficult to deal with. On a 300 yard rifle like an AR, the problems become nearly insurmountable absent very precise fine-tuning on each firearm. Even if they've used some kind of screw system to permit easy regulation, the process of regulating takes lots of time and is ammo-sensitive.

Sebastian the Ibis
April 29, 2012, 06:25 PM
youd rather hit someone twice than once?... so tell me, would you rather hit an opponent with two stones, or one boulder?

No..

Would you rather poke one 7.62 mm hole through your enemy, or two 5.56 mm holes through your enemy?

Yes one 155 mm hole is preferable, but that is not a viable option.

proven
April 29, 2012, 06:32 PM
there are a lot of assumptions being made here, all from a single pic. :rolleyes:

Justin
April 29, 2012, 06:33 PM
Sorry, but The Truth About Guns is one of the worst places you could possibly use as a reference for updates in the world of firearms.

Call me when The Firearm Blog or Caleb Giddings get ahold of one of these things for testing.

bluethunder1962
April 29, 2012, 06:33 PM
Man they have all the cool stuff.

PoserHoser
April 29, 2012, 07:06 PM
Would you rather poke one 7.62 mm hole through your enemy, or two 5.56 mm holes through your enemy?
I heard it was a 6.8 mm spc:neener:

Walking Dead
April 29, 2012, 07:13 PM
;)I have a feeling this thread will be locked twice as fast as a regular one.

Gtscotty
April 29, 2012, 07:46 PM
That's an interesting idea, but not a new one. It reminds me of the Winchester/Olin Salvo rifle that the US government experimented with in the 50's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olin/Winchester_Salvo_Rifle

http://www.thegunzone.com/spiw.html

It's a pretty interesting concept, but I don't see anything like that ever being adopted by mainstream military forces.

ApacheCoTodd
April 29, 2012, 08:36 PM
Well I had to check but am now twice as disinterested as I was in the .45x2.

Or, am I half as interested as I was in something else which was completely uninteresting?

Now, true, realistic and historically significant like .50X2/4 or twin 1919s or maybe even MG42s... Well.

VeeArDoubleyouSee
April 29, 2012, 08:53 PM
btw.. 1800RPM = 30 rounds per second, which means .03 nanoseconds from one round to the next...

bullet travels at 900,000mm a second, meaning the bullet travels 900mm every nano second... with a 405mm barrel it takes about .45 nano seconds for the bullet to leave the barrel...

my math could be off, but its fairly close
You mean 33333333 nanoseconds from one round to the next. Your math is way, way off.

ejnogarb
April 30, 2012, 10:42 AM
I doubt this concept will find any traction. It's most likely photoshopped.

roadchoad
April 30, 2012, 10:49 AM
1800RPM = 30 rounds per second, which means .03 seconds from one round to the next...

Fixed it for you. You are off by more than a few decimal places.

A nanosecond is one billionth of a second. .03 nanoseconds is 3 one-hundred-billionths of a second.

bullet travels at 900,000mm a second, meaning the bullet travels 900mm every millisecond... with a 405mm barrel it takes about .45 milliseconds for the bullet to leave the barrel...

jason41987
April 30, 2012, 11:07 AM
see.. first of all, this design just isnt worth the added components and width.. so its already a waste of time and energy...

second of all, the only way to make it not insanely complex, is to have a single bolt carrier, single hammer fire both barrels.. the only way you can get both shots to fire at exactly the same time anyway... and if you did this, you double the likeliness of a failure to feed, or failure to extract and then neither barrel works

and yeah, my math was way off, i was up for over 18 hours when i did that, i dont function well when tired, kinda like the rifle in discussion wont function well under heavy usage because youre doubling the chances of failure

jerkface11
April 30, 2012, 11:14 AM
And if you actually look at the picture you can tell the second flash hider isn't on a barrel.

303tom
April 30, 2012, 11:30 AM
I heard it was a 6.8 mm spc:neener:
I heard it was a 5.7x28..............

MachIVshooter
April 30, 2012, 11:30 AM
btw.. 1800RPM = 30 rounds per second, which means .03 nanoseconds from one round to the next...

Even the 1 million RPM metal storm gun isn't that fast. It fires one shot every micro second, which is 33,333 times slower than your claim on the AN-94.

.03 nanoseconds would be enough time for a beam of light to travel only 9 millimeters.

allaroundhunter
April 30, 2012, 10:02 PM
---------TWICE THE CLEANING!!
And half the accuracy!

I bet it's going to be the AR-15 version of this trainwreck:

Which means it will still be more accurate than an AK ;)

Kush
April 30, 2012, 10:25 PM
And half the accuracy!



Which means it will still be more accurate than an AK ;)

But would it be more accurate than a triple barrel ak?


http://images.wikia.com/guns/images/5/53/Pribor-3B_meroka_assault_rifle1.jpg

allaroundhunter
April 30, 2012, 10:27 PM
But would it be more accurate than a triple barrel ak?

Hmmmmm.....for that no answer I have.....

JohnnyK
May 1, 2012, 01:49 AM
dude... me wants a triple barrell AK!

armarsh
May 1, 2012, 07:56 AM
I believe you confused nano with milli, same as the Dems seem to with millions and trillions :(

You are only saying that because it is true. :cool:

Kush
May 1, 2012, 12:16 PM
Only problem with the triple barrel ak (actually called the tkb-059) is the recoil would be equivalent to a .300 Remington ultra magnum out of a 6.4 lb gun, I don't see that being very controllable on full auto.

MachIVshooter
May 1, 2012, 07:12 PM
That triple AK looks like a case ejection nightmare.............

Swing
May 1, 2012, 07:21 PM
Only problem with the triple barrel ak (actually called the tkb-059) is the recoil would be equivalent to a .300 Remington ultra magnum out of a 6.4 lb gun, I don't see that being very controllable on full auto.

Just reading that made my shoulder sore. :what:

Micro
May 1, 2012, 08:26 PM
Looks like a single gun laying next to a mirror.

fatcat4620
May 1, 2012, 08:44 PM
Sub sonic and silenced on one side full power on the other?

Comedian
May 1, 2012, 09:00 PM
Sub sonic and silenced on one side full power on the other?Only possible if it allows firing from one barrel at a time, and even then it wouldn't be worth the extra weight considering you can switch between sub/supersonic ammo with little more than a mag change in a conventional setup.

brian923
May 1, 2012, 09:38 PM
"does it come with red dot binoclulers" holy sh**! I almost peed my pants thats so funny!

Art Eatman
May 1, 2012, 10:03 PM
Enuf. Reminds me too much of an Edsel. :D

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