New Mexico Drops Numerous States From Handgunlaw.us


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Gary Slider
April 29, 2012, 09:16 PM
New Mexico has dropped Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas & West Virginia from the list of states they honored.

New Mexico will now only honor 5 states which are Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota & Oklahoma.

Of the states they dropped.
Colorado, Delaware, Louisiana, Ohio and West Virginia will drop New Mexico for sure as these states require Signed Agreements or the other state must honor them before they will honor that state.

Arkansas and Texas will most likely drop New Mexico but I am not 100% positive on that but 99% sure they will from what both states have done in the past.

Kansas will continue to honor New Mexico as they list states they will honor based on a states law being similar to theirs without the other state honoring them.

Michigan & Tennessee honor all other states and will continue to honor New Mexico.

William Hubbard is the new man in charge of the NMPDS Concealed Carry Unit. He is the one making these decisions. From what I understand he is the one who is appointed by law to make the decisions. This major change by one person is most likely making huge waves in New Mexico. We will never learn just how big of waves but I believe there is a tsunami brewing.

Every state that boarders New Mexico except for Oklahoma which only has the Tip of its Panhandle touching New Mexico are now not welcome in New Mexico if they carry a firearm. All those citizens were welcome in the not to distant past. Also Colorado and most likely Texas will drop New Mexico and then citizens of New Mexico will not be welcome in those states if they want to carry their defensive firearm. That will cause a lot of calls, emails and letters to start flowing to politicians and an election is coming up. Those Politicians donít want any waves right now that they donít need. So it will be very interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks. I am hoping for the best. I also what to say I donít know anymore about the Whyís of this any more than you do.

I am updating all the States pages at www.handgunlaw.us to reflect this change in who New Mexico Honors and who will honor them. It is a lot of work and hoping to get it all up late this evening. I have just returned from a weekend away. The Create a Map Application is the tough job. To make a state blue showing it honors another state is simple. To change it to show it doesnít honor it any longer requires Steve to completely rebuild a new map for each state. That change will not happen for awhile and I will put that info on the Notice Page for the Create a Map Application.

FYI

NMDPS Concealed Carry Unit
6301 Indian School Rd NE Ste. 310
Albuquerque, NM 87110
(505) 841-8053

http://www.dps.nm.org/index.php/nm-concealed-carry/

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bluethunder1962
April 29, 2012, 09:17 PM
I will stay out of that state.

Tomcat47
April 29, 2012, 09:21 PM
well....I didnt lose anything there and if I did they can keep it!....:rolleyes:

traditionally this is out of left field for NM, but with politics in this day and age who knows? And I imagine there is some degree of politics behind there decision to dishonor the other states........:scrutiny:

bluethunder1962
April 29, 2012, 09:27 PM
I know politics plays a lot in it but some of it I can see. In SC we have to take 8 full hrs half shooting half class. Right next door GA I was told you can get one on line. That is why SC won't honnor GA so of corse Ga won't honnor sc.

Peter M. Eick
April 29, 2012, 09:29 PM
As a Texan that visits NM a lot, that is too bad. I will have to rethink my vacation plans to NM until they rectify this problem. I try to vote with my money and support CHL friendly states if at all possible.

Nico Testosteros
April 29, 2012, 09:43 PM
One can still open carry in NM, right ?

mgkdrgn
April 29, 2012, 10:08 PM
I know politics plays a lot in it but some of it I can see. In SC we have to take 8 full hrs half shooting half class. Right next door GA I was told you can get one on line. That is why SC won't honnor GA so of corse Ga won't honnor sc.
Or so Jakie says ...

janedoedad
April 29, 2012, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by bluethunder1962
I know politics plays a lot in it but some of it I can see. In SC we have to take 8 full hrs half shooting half class. Right next door GA I was told you can get one on line. That is why SC won't honnor GA so of corse Ga won't honnor sc.

No. You must apply in person at the Probate Court and submit fingerprint cards from the appropriate agency. License is mailed to you after approval. Depending on the county it can be 1 week to 6 months to get a GFL

NMPOPS
April 29, 2012, 10:35 PM
Unfortunately I'm from NM tho I now live in AZ. Yes you can still open carry in NM and you can conceal in your car or RV while in the state. Those of you who still live there, write you local state rep. I get my retirement check from NM so I will write to my old state rep as well. Don't know what's wrong there except that Albuquerque is very liberal and has a lot of influence on state politics.

Sent from my Ally

JRH6856
April 29, 2012, 10:44 PM
From the NMDPS webpage on reciprocity: (http://www.dps.nm.org/index.php/nm-concealed-carry/reciprocity-agreements/)

New Mexico statute 29-19-12E requires that in order for a state to be recognized by NM, their provisions have to be ďat least as stringent or substantially similarĒ to New Mexico. NMDPS has generally found six things that make a state substantially different from New Mexico, and therefore would disqualify that state from being recognized:


Permits issued locally rather than by the state;
No fingerprint-based background check;
Permits issued to persons under 21 years of age;
Permits issued to resident aliens;
No classroom (static) training required;
No live-fire (dynamic) training required.


I know Texas fails on the resident alien issue. I wonder how many other states fail on that point. Apparently, NM shall issue only to US citizens and will only grant reciprocity to states that have the same restriction.

FWIW, NM is an open carry state.

JellyJar
April 29, 2012, 10:51 PM
Sounds like Mr Hubbard is just following the letter of the law. If so perhaps this will spur changes in NM's laws?

calaverasslim
April 30, 2012, 10:03 AM
Well, I need to goto PRK in the near future and was gonna go thru Lordsburg. However, I have always like Ok, Co, Nv in the summer. Guess I will visit them this summer on my way

dogrunner
April 30, 2012, 10:41 AM
Doesn't really affect me as I'm LEOSA qualified, that said, if I was not I'd sure give that disallowance thought relative to my Elk hunt this year! There's no shortage of other places to spend that money.

In truth tho, the folks that're ultimately hurt by such a foolish policy application are the people of New Mexico. The criteria used certainly appear to be subjective in nature and could be interpreted differently by a different official.

Art Eatman
April 30, 2012, 11:46 AM
The restriction against resident aliens is just so wrong! Those are folks who have jumped through all the legal hoops. Even BATFE respects their rights.

razorback2003
April 30, 2012, 12:53 PM
Tennessee gives handgun carry permits to resident aliens. I have a good feeling that is the issue NM has with TN. I always thought according to ATF and also a recent court ruling that resident aliens have firearms rights just like citizens.

Jeff H
April 30, 2012, 01:15 PM
I know Texas fails on the resident alien issue. I wonder how many other states fail on that point.

That is the only point that Ohio could be failing at as far as I can see. I know the border states are touchy on immigration issues but legal residents are hear legally and their rights should be protected.

Striker
April 30, 2012, 01:42 PM
Ohio also fails on permits issued locally (i.e. by each county's sheriff department) rather then centrally.

crracer_712
April 30, 2012, 01:45 PM
I know Texas fails on the resident alien issue. I wonder how many other states fail on that point.

That has to be why Kansas got the boot. It's the only one I see that I don't know about, all the other requirements are good to go here.

That's too bad too, I was wanting to make a motorcycle trip to Roswell this summer. Guess It'll be another trip to the mountains of Colorado now.

Unistat
April 30, 2012, 01:52 PM
Ohio also fails on permits issued locally (i.e. by each county's sheriff department) rather then centrally.
Same with Michigan and despite multiple attempts to have issuance moved to the state, it's never worked out.

X-Rap
April 30, 2012, 01:53 PM
NM is an example of a state that had to do everything for every body to get CCW. Prior to shall issue the only way to CC was to be somebody and have the Co. Sheriff deputize you. The whole state is/was kind of run on the good old boy network and was the most corrupt place I ever lived.
It is the western version of the stereotypical deep southern Democrat government and this play is just them getting things back into sync.

JRH6856
April 30, 2012, 02:04 PM
The restriction against resident aliens is just so wrong! Those are folks who have jumped through all the legal hoops. Even BATFE respects their rights.

Note this from the Texas CHL FAQ #15: (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlfaqs.htm)

"Under federal law, aliens who have been admitted to the U.S. under a non-immigrant visa, usually are not qualified to purchase a handgun and therefore, do not qualify for a license. However, as long as you were not admitted under a non-immigrant visa and are a legal resident of Texas, you may qualify."

blarby
April 30, 2012, 02:15 PM
Thanks again for doing everything in your power to stay on top of the volume of constantly changing laws that curtail our rights every day, Gary.

You truly are a beacon in the dark, and your service is very much appreciated.

Neverwinter
May 1, 2012, 01:17 AM
I know Texas fails on the resident alien issue. I wonder how many other states fail on that point. Apparently, NM shall issue only to US citizens and will only grant reciprocity to states that have the same restriction.

Conversely, the following states "succeed" in denying legal residents:
Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota & Oklahoma.
:barf:

Johannes_Paulsen
May 1, 2012, 08:44 AM
This is bad news. It wouldn't be as bad if you could actually get a non-resident permit from New Mexico. I mean, you could say that they were being hardline about it, but at least you had a legal recourse to get around it. This almost seems as though someone's being vindictive.

Only thing I ever cared to visit in New Mexico was the Trinity site. It can wait a bit longer.

MedWheeler
May 1, 2012, 09:41 AM
New Mexico statute 29-19-12E requires that in order for a state to be recognized by NM, their provisions have to be “at least as stringent or substantially similar” to New Mexico. NMDPS has generally found six things that make a state substantially different from New Mexico, and therefore would disqualify that state from being recognized:

1. Permits issued locally rather than by the state;
2. No fingerprint-based background check;
3. Permits issued to persons under 21 years of age;
4. Permits issued to resident aliens;
5. No classroom (static) training required;
6. No live-fire (dynamic) training required

Florida, dropped by New Mexico in March (and which then dropped NM in turn), fails on points 3 and 4.

heeler
May 1, 2012, 04:59 PM
And to think just three weeks ago I went through some pains in this very forum asking about certain restrictions of N.M.'s concealed handgun laws pertaining to restaruants that might serve liquor but were not required to post that it was off limits to conceal carry.
This Texan had a great one week trip there and spent at least $650.00 in that state and was concealed carrying the entire time and now two weeks later I see I am no longer legal to do so there.
What a crock!!
This is most distressing to see that state move in that direction.

buckhorn_cortez
May 1, 2012, 05:20 PM
Hopefully, this is the first step in getting a law through the legislature that makes more sense than the current version. The original law (2004) required you to shoot with every gun you wanted to use for concealed carry. That got changed to revolver / semi-auto in the largest caliber you wanted to carry which automatically qualified you to carry anything smaller.

The Governor of NM has a concealed carry permit. She understands people wanting concealed carry permists. By strictly interpreting the law, this points out how restrictive it is in reciprocity for NM citizens traveling to other states. Much like changing the original law to something reasonable, this may be the step needed to get a new bill through the legislature that will change the reciprocity requirements with other states. Tough in the short term, but may work out better in the long term.

I've already made my state senator and representative aware of my problem with this interpretation of the law and am hoping to get the NRA to assist in getting this changed.

buckhorn_cortez
May 1, 2012, 05:30 PM
The whole state is/was kind of run on the good old boy network and was the most corrupt place I ever lived.

Obviously, you've never lived in either Chicago or New Jersey...

It is the western version of the stereotypical deep southern Democrat government and this play is just them getting things back into sync.

Uhh..huh..okay. 'Splain this one to me - the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and all of the Department heads appointed by the Governor are Republicans...

As a Texan that visits NM a lot, that is too bad. I will have to rethink my vacation plans to NM until they rectify this problem. I try to vote with my money and support CHL friendly states if at all possible.

That's fine by me...maybe now I won't have to fight my way through the Texans to get to a trout stream. I've always wondered, if Texas is the place to be...why do you all come to NM for vacations?

heeler
May 1, 2012, 05:34 PM
The state could possibly lose a lot of money pushing this issue.
I no longer visit California due to their extreme views on conceal carry.
I would certainly hate to stop visiting New Mexico twice a year like I do and each time the duration is a full week.
But if they persist then the 164 mile drive through the state via I-10 from the Texas border to the Arizona border will be the order of the day.

X-Rap
May 1, 2012, 05:51 PM
Uhh..huh..okay. 'Splain this one to me - the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and all of the Department heads appointed by the Governor are Republicans...


I'm talking about County Sheriffs, Municipal Judges, and city Police Chiefs.
I have never lived in Chicago of Jersey so I may not know real corruption and by stereotypical I mean just that (as in fitting certain patterns) it's behavior not party affiliation.
NM passed a lousy law and then didn't follow what it said, now they are walking it back in what is the worst retraction of reciprocity in gun permit history. Many people screwed up to end up with this many states being dropped but in the end I'm still saying it's politics.

Johannes_Paulsen
May 1, 2012, 06:39 PM
Uhh..huh..okay. 'Splain this one to me - the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and all of the Department heads appointed by the Governor are Republicans...

Well, Ronald Reagan was a Republican, and that didn't stop him from signing some pretty bad gun control legislation as Governor of California. (Or supporting the Bradys in the 1990s.)

I hear tell that Mike Bloomberg used to be a Republican, too.

dodo bird
May 1, 2012, 06:48 PM
Obviously, you've never lived in either Chicago or New Jersey...



Uhh..huh..okay. 'Splain this one to me - the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and all of the Department heads appointed by the Governor are Republicans...



That's fine by me...maybe now I won't have to fight my way through the Texans to get to a trout stream. I've always wondered, if Texas is the place to be...why do you all come to NM for vacations?
Not very thr. I sure you wont appreciate when tx takes away your right to carry there. We are all in this together.

MrM4
May 1, 2012, 06:58 PM
This is a states rights issue, they have every legal right to do it no matter how much we dislike it. I think its a step in the wrong direction but aside from those who live in NM raising a fuss over it to try and get it changed Im not sure what those of us who live in other state can do?

Johannes_Paulsen
May 1, 2012, 07:05 PM
@MrM4: Most we can do is not visit the state, spend our money elsewhere, and make it clear why we're doing that.

A cash donation to RKBA organizations in NM trying to change the law might be helpful too. Any suggestions?

heeler
May 1, 2012, 07:18 PM
It's my hope that cooler heads will prevail and revisit this issue and reverse it.

JRH6856
May 1, 2012, 07:46 PM
A cash donation to RKBA organizations in NM trying to change the law might be helpful too. Any suggestions?

Since any state's CCW law can have affect on interstate commerce, the US Congress has the authority under the Commerce clause to address this issue. You could write your Congressman.

OTOH, if you think it best that Congress not get involved, perhaps it might be best to let the laws in any state be determined by the citizens of that state without outside intervention.

elrowe
May 1, 2012, 07:57 PM
Thanks New Mexico, anyone have good suggestions on where a Kentucky guy can find a more welcoming state for my pronghorn hunt? Sadly, my parents live in NM too. They'll miss me.

No fingerprint-based background check - nope, but we (KY) NICS checks everyone every month, why add our prints to a database when we committed no crime?
Permits issued to persons under 21 years of age - nope, but they can vote and die defending everyone else's freedom... (sadly KY has the same restriction)
Permits issued to resident aliens - yep, why not, what law did they break to disqualify? Discrimination?

Art Eatman
May 1, 2012, 11:23 PM
See update:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=657331

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