[jawman]

I'm looking to buy a shotgun for home defense, as well as just general and overall fun to go out to the property and shoot at various targets. I can't decide if I should get the (1st question) classic full stock, full stock with pistol grip, or an adjustible tac stock with pistol grip. I live in a small apartment so I'm thinking that the adjustable stock would be a better choice, but I'm no expert. It would also be used primarily for general shooting fun at the range and when I go out to the property with the rest of my guns to shoot at different targets set up. I'm leaning toward a Mossy 500 but my real predicament is in the stock type to choose. I'm leaning towards the 500 tactical 6 shot, #50420. If I were to get that, (2nd question) how difficult is it to add ghost ring sights or a rail for a red dot if I decide to do so in the future?

[TurtlePhish]

I say go with a used 870 Wingmaster, but if you get the 500 extras are easy to add. Both guns have gigantic aftermarket support.

[colbysdad]

I agree with TURTLEPHISH, THE Remington 870 WINGMASTER is hard to beat. The sound of that slide action can be heard a mile away, especially in your house. I have two one in 12 ga and 20 ga. They have never given me any trouble . Good luck

[EchoM70]

I've had nothing but problems with a Remington 870 Express Super Mag I use to own. The chamber was very rough and after firing it the shell would stick to the chamber preventing it from extracting. I literally had to smack the stock on the ground while holding the forearm to get it to extract. I tried everything to get it working. I polished the chamber multiple times, the problem was still occurring. Sent it to Remington and they polished the chamber as well, still wouldn't eject fired shells. Any shells of multiple brands exhibited the same problem.

With that being said I wouldn't trust a Remington 870 Express as my HD gun, however I believe the Wingmaster is of higher quality than the Express and wouldn't have the problems as an Express... just something to think about.

I however have had multiple Mossberg shotguns, and love them all, no problems what so ever. Mossberg has huge aftermarket support, so you can tailor them to whatever purpose... And most come drilled and tapped so you can add whatever optics you want.

[Steve C]

If you want a shotgun for multiple uses from home defense to clays and hunting then the most versatile is the Mossberg 500 with a hunting barrel and extra 18" defense barrel. Not as cool looking as a dedicated tacticle full lenght mag tube shotgun but much more practical and versatile.

http://personalsecurityzone.com/images/MS54169lg.jpg

[Dave McCracken]

First choice,a vintage Wingmaster with two barrels and a standard stock that FITS.

Tie for second choice, either a Remington Express or the Mossberg 500, two barrels and a standard stock that FITS.

There's 200 years of R&D behind the standard stock. Some folks like the separate PG style, mostly folks who learned to shoot in the military.

The 'justable style works best on stuff that doesn't kick, like a 5.56. The butt's a little small for shotguns and it's hard to get a good fit.

[jawman]

Thanks for all of the replies. I like the Mossberg 500s, and I see that some of the full stock options come with a pistol grip kit. Is that to switch to strictly pistol grip only, or can you do full stock with pistol grip?

[oneounceload]

You do not want a PGO - it will quickly become a desk-top paperweight

[highpower]

Get the full stock version of what ever gun you buy. Pistol grip shotguns look mean as all get out, but are tough to aim and unpleasant to shoot. I'll put in my vote for a 870, IMO one of the best shotguns ever made.

I like my defense weapons to be as simple as possible, it cuts down on extra weight and there are less protrusions to catch on things.

In front, the 870 I have had for a bit over 25 years. It stays near my bed.
http://highpower.smugmug.com/Other/Winchester97/i-KG4xDq7/0/L/IMG1040-L.jpg

[jawman]

Okay, so as I read the replies and continue my research, I'm liking the Mossberg 500, model 50411, http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/50411.jpg
It's just the standard 500, a 6 shot, 18.5", full stock (also comes with pistol grip kit). I definitely do not want PGO, but would like to have a full stock along with a pistol grip but it seems they don't make those. The only option to have a stock with pistol grip is the tac stock. So my questions are,

1) does the pistol grip kit that comes with the 50411 to convert to PGO (pistol grip only), or can you use the pistol grip with the full stock all as one, e.g. http://www.goodguysguns.com/images/Shotgun_Pistol_Grip_Stock_400.JPG ?

2) what are the pros and cons of having a tactical adjustable stock with pistol grip vs a classic full stock?

[DeadFlies]

I have an 870 wingmaster with a pistol-grip buttstock. I like it much better than other shotguns I have with traditional full stocks. It is just much easier on my wrist. A heavy gun with heavy recoil really puts stress on my wrist; the pistol grip relieves much of this while the full buttstock provides its usual benefits.

[Dave McCracken]

Jawman, using a full stock with PG on a Mossberg means the safety is hard to reach without breaking the firing grip.

I've tried everything. The classic stock is my preference. Just get it fitting you and BA/UU/R...

[scramasax]

I've got several rem870s all set up different due the time frame they were customized. The last shotgun I ordered was Legacy Sports O/U HD gun. They took thier compatition gun and just shortened the barrels to 18". It is the most fun shotgun I shoot now and also have it hanging on the wall by the bed. My wife calls it the jaguar gun.

Cheers,

ts

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'm diggin' my 590 with a Hogue stock on it now after the original stock and then a dalliance with an M-4 stock and grip set-up.

I've used PGO, side-fold and over fold in the Army and can't really say that I was ever happy with them aside from a profilin' point of view (which actually has value overseas from time to time, so there's that) but I understand their practicality in certain scenarios. I know from the Army experience that nearly all pistol grips are painful to hip-shoot and regardless of current favored techniques, off the hip is my thing with a shotgun.

I'd advise starting with a full stocked gun and modifying to suit without giving up the factory furniture as you move through the alternatives. I think the only thing that would get me outa my Hogue now is a quality stock with extra round storage in it.

Also pay close attention to the note above about the safety access on a 500 series with a PG.

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'm diggin' my 590 with a Hogue stock on it now after the original stock and then a dalliance with an M-4 stock and grip set-up.

I've used PGO, side-fold and over fold in the Army and can't really say that I was ever happy with them aside from a profilin' point of view (which actually has value overseas from time to time, so there's that) but I understand their practicality in certain scenarios. I know from the Army experience that nearly all pistol grips are painful to hip-shoot and regardless of current favored techniques, off the hip is my thing with a shotgun.

I'd advise starting with a full stocked gun and modifying to suit without giving up the factory furniture as you move through the alternatives. I think the only thing that would get me outa my Hogue now is a quality stock with extra round storage in it.

Also pay close attention to the note above about the safety access on a 500 series with a PG.

[Rampant_Colt]

FWIW, you can get a Maverick 88 for roughly $200. It's basically a Mossberg 500 with the safety in a different location. They're available in high-cap versions as well.

[jawman]

I'm now leaning towards the 590A1 special purpose, mfr # 51517 (http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/51517.jpg). I was going to get the standard 500 mfr # 50411 (http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/50411.jpg) but it only comes in the shiny blued finish and I really prefer the matte black finish (they call it parkerized finished on the 590A1 SP), and the only way to get that color on the 6 shot full stock is the 590A1 SP. And if I'm going to do that, I might as well get the version with GR sights. It's only a half pound heavier than the standard 500. What's everyone's $.02?

[wolfe]

I ordered one Wednesday........

[Fred Fuller]

The one big difference between the 500 and the 590 is that the 590 has a pull-through cleanout magazine tube, which the original military contract specifications called for. It's a lot easier to do maintenance on or fix a problem in a tubular magazine when you can get to both ends of it. That one difference would be a deal maker/breaker for me.

And yes, I know the 500 was bought on some .mil contracts too. Buy one if you want one, given a choice between the two, it would be a 590 every time for me. Note that the original designation for the 590 was 500M MILS...

http://www.mossbergs.com/manuals/500%20MILS_500M%20MILS.pdf

[jawman]

Thanks for the info Fred. 51517 it is unless anyone has any recommendations as to why I should consider something else.

[ApacheCoTodd]

Thanks for the info Fred. 51517 it is unless anyone has any recommendations as to why I should consider something else.
I don't know that it even matters or which model # it is but my 590 with the slightly longer magazine and bayonet lug has a forward sling attachment angle that I'm a lot happier with than I was with the 500 which I previously had that had the attachment on the end of the tube as does the 51517.

Probably doesn't mean a rat's patootie to most but I like it better.

I doubt you'll ever regret poppin' for the ghost rings too.

[jawman]

I see what you're saying. Thanks for mentioning that. I like the shorter length of the 6 shot vs the 9 shot and the sling attachment isn't a deal breaker for me, but I'm glad you brought it up because it's something I didn't know and always like learning something new about firearms. And yeah, for the ghost rings, I figure if I'm going to spend the extra cash from the 500 to get a 590A1 SP, I might as well get the GR sights. Can't see why I should get bead over ghost ring.

[ApacheCoTodd]

Mine with the Hogue snaps so natural for me that I have not once, hunted for a sight picture with the GR sights. As far as being content with the shorter magazine - good on ya for restraint and not goin' full-game geek on the initial set up.

One add that I've been extremely happy with is my Sure-Fire railed hand guard. I keep a Sure-Fire on it at the cabin but even when not mounted, it feels great.

[jawman]

Mine with the Hogue snaps so natural for me that I have not once, hunted for a sight picture with the GR sights...
...One add that I've been extremely happy with is my Sure-Fire railed hand guard. I keep a Sure-Fire on it at the cabin but even when not mounted, it feels great.

Okay, two things that sparked my curiosity:

First, what do you mean by "I have not once, hunted for a sight picture with the GR sights..." ?

Second, one of the reasons I strayed away from getting a tactical tri rail forearm pump is because I think that it wouldn't be comfortable to be gripping a pump that is railed. Although I've never tried one before and have always fired shotguns that have the traditional forearm pump, but I always though it would be annoying. So it perplexes me that to you it actually doesn't feel bad but you prefer it.

[ApacheCoTodd]

When I say "hunted", I mean actively working at lining up the two sights and my eye relative to the natural hold of the shotgun. Initially, I thought there would be more active adjustment in the gaining of a sight picture than would seem to make sense on a shotgun. Point is, I was skeptical about the ghost ring concept. I was wrong, they're great.

As for the rail set up - I have fillers in the sides and a long one on the bottom. It feels damn good and I've switched back to stock a couple times to be sure I liked it. Without the fillers it plain sucks without gloves.

To be honest, I would stick with factory if I didn't specifically want the flashlight up at the cabin. The number of times I wanted illumination and the shotgun have made it worthwhile. One time in particular, I was able to put a load in the ground in front of two Mexican Greys coming down the hill for my mutt. Both eyes open, flashlight on and the shot in the ground just ahead of them was a wonderful proof of the setup for me. They still tried to whine her up into the woods for a week but didn't come down near the road again and I didn't have to actually hit them either.

[jawman]

Okay, I see what you mean. I plan on sticking with the stock forearm pump and if I need a light I can always attach one to the shell tube or upgrade to a railed pump. But what do you mean by having fillers? Is that something you can buy? Also what do you mean by "whine her up to the woods"? Trying to call her and attack her if she follows?

[ApacheCoTodd]

Oops - forgot the photo showing the rubber filler panels for unused portions of the rail. It's there now.

As for the whining - yes, they'd be there in the morning and at dusk and then follow us on walks but always just out of sight (mine anyhow) with a pretty steady whining/yipping to try to interest her - or the other two dogs - into coming away. I get the same several times a year running in the desert north of Phoenix in the morning only then it's coyotes. Fortunately, none of my beasties has fallen for it but the ugly night with the greys - Daisy was taking the ill advised position of standing her ground. A 590, ghost rings and a flashlight were great. The interesting thing is, that time the greys were silent and I only got the flashlight to make sure an elk wasn't up against the cabin again based upon Daisy's odd behavior - fortunately, the flashlight I grabbed was the closest one to the door and had a Mossberg attached. And that was a wonderful endorsement for the ghost ring system and my comment on not hunting for a sight picture. Dead of night (really like 04:30) and the only illumination was a 25 watt bulb back on the porch and the sure-fire and still I got a quick - almost instinctual - sight picture with both eyes opened and dark sights... Nice!

Here's Daisy, pissed off at a food bowl rather than being a pile of wolf pooh thanks to my Mossberg.

[jawman]

Ah, I see. Thanks for uploading the pictures. And thanks for sharing a photo of Daisy. I love dogs. :)
Excited to get my Mossberg.

[snooperman]

two barrels in 12 ga would be my choice.

[jawman]

I'm now kind of torn whether or not I should get the 6 shot or the 9 shot model. Just by looking online, the 9 shot model seems much longer than the 6 shot, and looks kinda weird/ugly to me, but I know the barrel is only 1.5" longer. Maybe it's the long feed tube that makes it look longer than it really is. Anyway, it looked too long and kind of ugly to me, but then I handled the 9 shot marinecoat at the gunstore today and it didn't look weird at all. So I'm trying to perceive what would be the pros and cons of the 6 shot vs 9 shot model. Would the 6 shot model be much lighter than the 9 shot model? Or would that not make much of a difference? I've also read of some people preferring the 6 shot because they did not like the added frontal weight of shells in the 9 shot, and to them they said it was too front heavy. So since I'm looking at the 590A1 that has more metal parts, that might be something to consider, and with me being more of a slim build. I wish my gunstore had both models for me to compare in person.

[jawman]

^^Any advice??

[ApacheCoTodd]

Tough to comment on since neither seems to have a must have or can't stand factor with you. I should think if you aren't able to capitalize on the extra rounds in competition, law enforcement/military or in fantastical personal defense scenarios why bother with the weight, visual impact/perception, inertia in handling or probable cost?

Me personally, I can't imagine the added weight really mattering and if it did - I'd just put 5-6 rounds in it and ignore the added hardware weight.

Another way to look at it is why not get the extra capacity while you can. You never know when another Federal reg might come through.

Anyhow... aesthetics, function, cost, availability, legality and such - let these guide you as the real world difference in weight - especially when represented as a percentage - is truly negligible.

[blarby]

Mosssberg 500.

Ported long barrel for clays and non sabot slugs...

18" HD bbl for in the home.

Rifled bbl for when you want your scattergun to be a rifle.

Easy on the wallet, the shoulder, and the eyes.

If you are already set on something else..... go with more rounds. If more rounds is your requirement, get a saiga :D

[ApacheCoTodd]

There you go... Get the "transformer" 500 and mix and match as required. It'll certainly save the embarrassment of hunting or sporting with a tactical gun.

Am there - do that! Some times it's fun for me to golf in boots too.:neener:

[sgtstryker]

I remember the first Mossbergs the Marine Corps used had a nylon trigger. Never saw a broken one, but they were definitely abused. Does the Mossberg still use these ?

[ApacheCoTodd]

I remember the first Mossbergs the Marine Corps used had a nylon trigger. Never saw a broken one, but they were definitely abused. Does the Mossberg still use these ?
I wonder, do you mean trigger guard?

The A1 guard and safety switch are aluminum now but my experience with the fiber guards has been fine.

[sgtstryker]

No, I meant the trigger. They came through the small arms section and I was looking at them. The trigger was nylon or something other than a metal.

[Ditchtiger]

Fun is an 1100 with a 5 round extension.
Getting a pump just because it sounds intimidating when you rack the slide is for mall ninjas.

[longstandingletdown]

If you're looking for a first gun, get a maverick 88. Since you have expressed that the forearm will not be changed, you can still tacticool the buttstock, add optics, blah blah blah.

You don't need all of it, but if you really want it:

I got the 20 ga 24" barrel with 5+1 capacity for around $220 out the door at wallyworld. Cut the barrel to 18.5" from breech to muzzle (myself, look for tutorials online,) added a magpul moe vfg at the tail end of the pump (drilled holes using a driver and small wood screw, then used hardware screws and nuts to affix magpul supplied mini-rail), slapped some turkey fiber sights on it, and am looking at a convertible pistol grip buttstock. All in all, around $300 and some change, and the pride of doing it myself.

Will post a full review when I get it to the range :neener: