[35 Whelen]

Let me begin by saying I'm not much of a shotgunner anymore, especially since quail are all but gone. I dove hunt once or twice a year and that's about it.

Last Friday a buddy paid for himself a three others of us to enter sporting clays shoot. Normally I would've used my little AyA SxS 20 ga., but this particular shoot was a "Triple Play" meaning all stations would throw three birds. My old '70's vintage 870 TB trap gun from my teenage years on our 4-H Trap Team got the call. Of course I switched the 30" full choke for a 26" IC.

At the shoot, which had around twenty, 4-man teams, it seemed everyone was shooting semi-autos including all my team mates. I grew absolutely weary of waiting for people to clear jams, fiddle with magazine cutoffs, etc. One of my own team mates was shooting a 20 ga Beretta which wouldn't function reliably. I disassembled it for him and shot a little Rem-Oil in the action and on the exterior of the magazine tube. It worked for a while, but he finally had to put it away as it wouldn't function reliably.

I've seen instances of this before at other shoots. Are all autos that finicky? Do that all have to be religiously cleaned? I've never owned a semi-auto shotgun having grown up using pumps and doubles. Heck when I was a teenager I'd put the 26" IC barrle on my trap gun and thought nothing about shooting skeet with it.

So are shotgun sports dominated by semi's and O/U's?

35W

[TurtlePhish]

So are shotgun sports dominated by semi's and O/U's?


At higher levels? Completely.

I've seen instances of this before at other shoots. Are all autos that finicky? Do that all have to be religiously cleaned?

Most autos these days are just as reliable as any pump with the right ammo. But "right ammo" is the key, and the one advantage that pumps have over semis.

[T Bran]

Wish I could answer your query but I too use a pump gun for all of my field and clay games with the exception of my old sxs .410 which I bring out as a nostalgia gun. Funny thing is I do as well with the little popper as the 12ga. Liking this gun more and more as my shoulder aint what it was 20 yrs ago. While it doesnt always dust em it does breakem up pretty good. Been wanting a .410 pump gun for a while now will break down soon I fear.
T

[LeonCarr]

I've been shooting the Remington 870 on an almost weekly basis since about 1985 (mostly buckshot and slugs and the occasional dove/deer/hog hunt), and as a condition of employment since 1991...everything else is just a shotgun.

I watched a Game Warden in a charity skeet shoot break 25 straight with his issue Remington 870P, with extended magazine and a sidesaddle :). It took a local MD with a Perazzi to beat him in the shootoff.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[wlewisiii]

One of the reasons I was so ecstatic to get my hands on my recent Ithaca 37 acquisition is that I'd like to start doing clays and it seemed to me that a good pump was a better place for me to start. All the autos I've seen (well, at my bottom feeder level) are fussy and I've played the "looking for a new/cheap/reliable (pick two) double barrel" game (though I did end up with a nice old Stevens and still have hopes for an Ithaca NID or better someday).

[Sheepdog1968]

I go with my friends to shoot clays socially. I almost always shoot a pump. I like pumps. I have a friend who has some sort of Remington semi that he bought for clays that seems reliable.

[YANKEE2500]

I have an old Remington 1100 that I have been shooting for 20 years and it has never jammed or had any type of issue with any ammo.

[Texas Gun Person]

I still see single shots frequently when shooting trap.

[throdgrain]

Higher level Shotgun sports aren't dominated by semis and over unders.

It is just dominated by over/unders, at least in my country.

However, I shoot a pump, but then I don't shoot at higher levels :p And even then, I'm the only one who does :)

[Dave McCracken]

I still love my 870s. But, most of the clay shooting I do sees me use an O/U.

That way, I don't have to bend over picking up hulls. When one's old and arthritic, that counts.

I see few serious clays competitors using pumps,but an awful lot of fun shooters doing so.

Mustangs are good cars but I don't see them competing at Indy.

[stan rose]

I own sxs and o/u shotguns, but always grab a pump, either Ithaca 37s or Winchester model 12s. The double barrels were mostly gifts, or inherited, but I can never get used to them. I do get a lot ribbing at the trap club for shooting pumps, but they work for me.

[MCgunner]

Surely EVERYone I know owns at least one pump, whether it's for clays or not being another question. If I get another pump, it'll be a Browning. I have a Mossberg I like a lot for waterfowling, but Brownings are sweat and fit me well out of the box. I own SxSs, a couple of single shots, and an auto. They don't shoot any better than my Mossberg, really, but I like 'em all. I don't shoot a lot of clays, though.

[JohnM]

You mean there's another kind of shotgun around besides a pump? :evil:

[oneounceload]

So are shotgun sports dominated by semi's and O/U's?

In International Trap it is 100% O/U as it is in International Skeet, with the Perazzi holding the lion's share. In Sporting Clays, it is right about 80% O/U and 20% semi, although the ranks of semis are growing as the price of doubles keeps rising faster than other types. THE semi of choice in sporting is one of the variants from Beretta. The only time you see a pump gun on a sporting clays shoot is when there is a side game specifically for it

It has to do with fit, weight, fast second shots, maintaining the gun on the target line, with O/U - the ability to use two different chokes

[whetrock]

Meh, call me boring but I've never grasped why a person would choose a SxS or over and under to a pump or Semi-Auto for more practical purposes. With that being said I'm not much of a shotgunner at all and seldom shoot skeet and never have bird hunted so I'm pretty sure I'm missing something. As for me I've always been partial to pumps and never realy considered myself a serious enough shotgunner to purchase a higher end shotgun so that's always ruled out semi-autos for me anyways. Don't get me wrong I like shotguns and all it's just that mine are primarily used for more mundane and ordinary task like pest control and the occasional skeet game, also were allowed here im OK to use them during muzzleloading season so I usually opt for more untilitarian models like my Mossberg 835, Super Nova and 870 Express. It's not like I'm hunting dove in Argentina or busting tens of thousands of skeet a year so a 'field grade" pump of some sort serves me fine.

[SouthernWake]

I use a pump for everything from clays to all hunting except turkey and ducks mainly because of the higher shot weight and recoil.

[JohnM]

I guess I've always had champagne tastes and a beer budget.
So while I've shot a few fine SXS and O/U guns and drooled over many more, the Ithaca 37 has always been my gun.
Wish I had just a couple more. :D

[Virginian]

The biggest issue with semi automatic shotguns - by a WIDE margin - is the nut on the back of the stock. I shot a few weeks ago with one guy with a Browning Sporting Gold, and another guy with a Beretta something. Both started jamming. Upon inspection, both looked like they had been lubricated with tar. Not the guns' fault. My 49 year old 1100 never missed a beat.

[Boomie]

First off it is good to see another person with an Aya SxS. My Matador 20 gauge was my first shotgun and I <3 it.

I see plenty of pumps in duck and goose blinds. I guess they work good when filled with muck and ice. I went phesant hunting this year and I had the only pump. I NEVER see them at skeet ranges.

[jmr40]

My 870's are probably the last shotguns I'd ever part with. I simply trust them to work under any conditions, they are fairly inepensive and with a couple of extra barrels laying around very versatile.

But since buying a Benelli M-1 several years ago, the 870's have been collecting a lot of dust. So far it has been 100% reliable. I haven't found a load it won't shoot, it has no more felt recoil, it is 1/2 lb lighter, and I simply get a higher percentage of hits with it.

[stan rose]

There is a difference between they guys who shoot clay games on a regular basis for fun (me), and they guys who shoot on a regular basis for score. A lot of my friends are involved in different shooting organizations, and are worried about every bird that is dropped, they practice often and have specific guns for the task. I on the other hand do not mind if I shoot a 96 one weekend with one gun and an 85 the next weekend with another gun, it is the fun of shooting the different guns, (read pump guns), that I own. For the guys who are involved in competition, or are thinking about getting involved in competition, a pump is probably not the way to go unless you like handicapping your self. Just my $.02.
P.S: I love American Pump Guns

[PJR]

I've been shooting more semi-auto these days mostly because the wood on my 12 gauge o/u is being refinished and it's taking longer than expected due to some issues.

My semi-autos are Beretta 391s in 12 gauge and 20. They require more maintenance than the o/us but if kept properly lubricated will go 1,500-2,000 rounds before an FTE due to accumlated crud.

I shot a round of clays last weekend with the Beretta A400 Sporting. It's a definite step forward from a design perspective but a huge leap backwards in aesthetics.

A pump gun comes out for clays when I want to relax or when something goes bump in the night and relaxation isn't part of the agenda.

[35 Whelen]

At the clays shoot in question, I fired 100 rounds, all handlloads. Since I NEVER sgoot a 12 ga. anymore the shells had been sitting for probably 10-15 years. Some of the crimps were questionable and some of the shell bodies were a tad wrinkled. Of those 100 rounds I had one shell that I "felt" not chamber right and it happened to be the second of three shots. I pushed the slide a little harder, the shell went into battery and I broke all three birds. I'd have been out of luck with a auto.

35W

[jmr40]

But that wouldn't have been the guns fault. I've found that modern autos with half way decent ammo, and an occasional cleaning are just a bit MORE reliable than pumps using the same ammo and in the same condition. This is only because of the fact that human error is ususlly the case of malfunctions with pump's. Defective reloads are human error with either gun. For most hunting, SD, or clay shooting I feel the semi-auto is the clear winner.

If I were looking for a no excuses shotgun for a survival situaion, I'd still go with a pump. They will still handle abuse, mud, dirt and crappy ammo that will choke a semi. They are a lot cheaper, so if they do rust, get dropped overboard while duck hunting, or stolen I've not lost a lot and are easily and cheaply replaced.

[Dave McCracken]

jmr, with at least 50K through divers 870s and maybe twice that, I've had one short stroke.

That, to me, is an acceptable operator induced glitch rate.

OTOH, the A400 Xtreme I have on loan still glitches on 7/8 oz loads, though it's down to one every 50 instead of one every two. With goose loads, it's close to none,though.

[drsfmd]

OTOH, the A400 Xtreme I have on loan still glitches on 7/8 oz loads, though it's down to one every 50 instead of one every two. With goose loads, it's close to none,though.

You do know that Beretta doesn't recommend using less than 1 1/8 ounce loads in the Xtrema and the A400 right? You should be happy that it feeds them at all, much less with a 98% success rate!

[Still Shooting]

Some years ago, a young friend had invited a group of his customers on a week-long quail hunt. It was at a preserve in Georgia. He didn't own a shotgun, so I asked him what he was going to shoot. He told me one of his customers was going to loan him an 870.

Since I thought very highly of the guy in question, I had loaned him some tools previously. All came back in as good or better shape than when loaned, and on time. So I broke my rule about tools and guns (NEVER loan either to anyone!). I loaned him my 1932 Ainsley Fox 12 for the hunt. He came back and said, "Well, I took a little ribbing the night we got there. The Fox was in the gun rack with a whole lot of Perazzi's and Berettas. But a little after noon on the first day, I found out that after some serious shooting, all those fancy guns turned into single shots, and I still had 2 barrels." He ended the week as high gun in the camp.

I have 3 shotguns: an Ithaca 16ga. pump, an SKB500 20ga. O/U, and the old Fox SxS 12ga. I love the SKB for grouse and woodcock, although the Ithaca does OK there too, and I like my Fox for pheasant - but the Ithaca does pretty well there as well. When wading into quicksand (which I once did, on a very cold morning), the Ithaca is capable of being shook and dried out, and will still take a double on mallards - which it did.

I like my doubles, but I LOVE my pump! I had a Browning Sweet 16 briefly, but only briefly. I shot some trap with it, but it just didn't "come up" for me as well as the Ithaca.

There's theory, and there's practice. And there are experts at trap, skeet, and sporting clays. But I'm no expert, just an old set-in-my-ways bird hunter who likes pumps and doubles (in that order).

[XD 45acp]

Model 12 Still breaking the devil out of them clays...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ATAShooter/Trapshooter.jpg

[oneounceload]

Originally Posted by Dave McCracken View Post
OTOH, the A400 Xtreme I have on loan still glitches on 7/8 oz loads, though it's down to one every 50 instead of one every two. With goose loads, it's close to none,though.
You do know that Beretta doesn't recommend using less than 1 1/8 ounce loads in the Xtrema and the A400 right? You should be happy that it feeds them at all, much less with a 98% success rate!

My wife's A400 Xplor - the 3.5" green one - reliably shoots not only my 7/8 loads, but even my 3/4oz ones - if they don't sit out overnight in freezing temps... ;)

Good gun

[ford8nr]

My Win Model 12 16ga has always been my go to gun, just picked a Model 12 in 20ga so the 16 will get rest.

[rajb123]

I have never owned an auto.... ...just SxS, O/U and a pump.

[oldguy870]

My two favorite guns - Remington 870 and Benelli M2. I am celebrating diversity.

[danoam]

My favorite and most used shotgun is my 20 ga 870 Special Field. I use it for both bird hunting and clay shooting. I am looking at o/u shotguns right now though. Autos really don't interest me except for maybe an 1100 Special Field in 20 ga. I do see them at the gun shows from time to time.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[35 Whelen]

Model 12 Still breaking the devil out of them clays...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ATAShooter/Trapshooter.jpg

Is that an Olan Mills photo?:D Just kidding.

That Model 12 has a beautiful stock. Is it factory?

35W

[Dave McCracken]

This will end up doing OK with 7/8 oz loads. It's had less than 1K through it so far. It used to gag on Fed Pinks, but now they flow right on through.

Back to pumps. Has anyone ever worn a name brand pump out?

Anyone?

[stan rose]

Worn out? Not exactly, but I have had to replace some springs and extractors on an old 37, but I think of that as routine maintenance for a well used and loved gun.

[XD 45acp]

Originally Posted by XD 45acp
Model 12 Still breaking the devil out of them clays...



Is that an Olan Mills photo? Just kidding.

That Model 12 has a beautiful stock. Is it factory?

35W


Not Olan Mills, but close... You ain't never seen a studio get so quiet until you walk thru the front door with a Model 12. Moms grabbing their kids, one guy slid in behind his wife. Bad part is I called ahead...:D

The stock is original, but has been high gloss refinished.

[snooperman]

and also use pump guns around the farm.

[wwace]

This will end up doing OK with 7/8 oz loads. It's had less than 1K through it so far. It used to gag on Fed Pinks, but now they flow right on through.

Back to pumps. Has anyone ever worn a name brand pump out?

Anyone?
I wore out my first model 37 in about 1975.

I shot a lot of sub gauge sporting clays with a model 42 replica and a model 12 28ga replica, what nice guns.

As for a clays shotgun a nice O/U is hard to beat. I am selling my only O/U now to buy other guns as I have not shot it in about 10 years. pic below



Autos: a Beretta 390 is probably the best autoloader ever made. Remington 1100 or 11-87 I used to have to change O rings every other week when I shot leagues and a lot of trap. I always kept them clean and they would still have some feed/eject issues. The 390's I have never fail.

http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae206/wwace/20120409_171606.jpg

[Skribs]

The more I read about shotguns, the more surprised I am whenever I read "every household should have one pump shotgun." While I do own one, I wonder if the real thought should be that every household should have one shotgun (or even just one long gun that isn't .22 LR).

[Red Cent]

A cowboy is never without a pump (or two).

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/cowboy003.jpg

[Dave McCracken]

Skribs, a basic pump shotgun of known make covers so many bases.

Protection, food,fun.

Frankenstein, my over publicized parts 870, has taken game from squirrels to giant Canada geese, gone 50 straight at trap, benches slugs into 2.5" at 50 yards and currently is stoked with buck in case The Revolution starts without me.

That's versatility.

[snooperman]

in 12 ga is hard to beat for versatility and reliability. My old Rem 870 and Ithaca 37 in 12 ga are more than 50 years old and have never failed me after hundreds of hunts and thousands of rounds fired in general use. When I go to gun shows and gun shops 12 ga pump guns far out number all other types available and with reasonable prices. What is not to like about a good pump gun?

[Skribs]

I know it's versatile, but the belief that "every household should have a pump shotgun"...you can have fun and protection with things besides a pump shotgun. You can have a semi-auto or double-barrel or single shot, or you can have a rifle.

A lot of people (like me) don't hunt, and have no use for a lot of what a pump offers. All of my firearms are for both protection and fun (why I don't own any .22s). I feel that since I have a semi-auto shotgun, or if I had a rifle instead (be it a lever-action .357 or an AR/AK-type), that I wouldn't need a pump shotgun.

I do have a pump, but I think the "everyone should have a pump shotgun" is too narrow a scope. I think everyone should have a HD long gun, not specifically a pump.

[dataDyne]

Got a Remington 870 when i got sick of seeing cracks in the old used guns stocks i had before.
Use it for everything, skeet, plinkin, huntin and works well most of the time
I think i need to polish the cartridge place in barrel so the cheap ones will not stick in it.

[oneounceload]

I do have a pump, but I think the "everyone should have a pump shotgun" is too narrow a scope. I think everyone should have a HD long gun, not specifically a pump.

I would agree with this statement. I have a HD pump somewhere in the back of the closet - my primary is a handgun of various types. My shotguns are for targets and upland, my handguns for SD/HD/plinking, my rifles for hunting/plinking.

It is hard to argue that a pump isn't a decent gun for all around; however, while it is a good jack-of-all-trades, IMO, I find it to be a master of none. Shoot targets with one? Sure, but there are much better built and balanced guns for that. Hunt upland? Sure, but there are better built, balanced and LIGHTER guns for that - waterfowl? Give me a semi. HD? Excellent choice, but again, some folks prefer the compactness of a handgun, while others prefer the less penetrating small cartridge rifle

Where the pump shines is in its cost compared to the other better choices. For someone who has limited funds and therefore only needs a tool, not something for fun, a pump can be a great choice

[RMc]

Now all that is needed is a major ammo manufacturer to underwrite several well publicized Sporting Clays tournaments for slide actions!