Hello everyone. I am needing information/ideas on my newest purchase. I have aquired a Winchester sef loading rifle from a local shop. It was tagged as a Model 1907. It is stamped on the tang as a Model 1905 Winchester. All numbers match. I have a problem with the barrel. The barrel is also stamped Mod. 1905, but it says 351 Cal. All the information I have found says the 1905 is only chambered in 35wsl or 32wsl. To me it looks like some has added a one to the cal on the barrel but I am not sure. The magazine that came with the rifle is clearly marked 351 cal. It also came with a box of ammo. The casing say 357 maximum. The rifle will chamber this ammo without a problem and the owner of the shop said he did not know a lot about the rifle but he had shot it using some of the rounds from the box he gave me. I am concerned about what cal this rifle really is and the last thing I want to do is destroy it or hurt myself. Any help or thoughts would be awosme!:confused:
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April 30, 2012, 12:35 AM
1. Have it checked out by a gunsmith.
2. Look at the brass from the rounds he fired, see if it looks unusual.
3. To be extra safe, make a casting of the chamber (Google can help with this) and take careful measurements, comparing them with a cartridge.
4. MAKE SURE that the gun can handle the pressure of .357 Max.
April 30, 2012, 12:37 AM
The casing are not any where near being round on the lead end. Also anyone know where I could get a magazine for a model 1905 if that is what the rifle turns out to truly be?
April 30, 2012, 12:39 AM
If the fired casings look weird, DO NOT fire that gun until it's been checked out.
April 30, 2012, 05:42 AM
You can make .351 brass FROM 357 max brass. It's pretty common to see it that way.
This ammo hasn't been made commercially since the 60's or so, it's hard to find so handloaders 'find a way.'
I think ALL the 351 ammo I've seen online in the past 2 years is made on 357 Max brass.
Look for more info in the second link in my signature.
Not telling what you have, unless someone who knows those rifles looks it over GOOD. The 35 WSL wasn't as powerful as the 351 WSL, and the rifle design uses the power of the cartridge to function. Too much power in the lighter gun and you will tear it apart, slowly.
April 30, 2012, 04:43 PM
It sounds like someone chambered the 05 for the .351 ctg. Right off the bat I see a problem with the bolt being too light for the .351 round. The bolt and recoil spring are what retards the recoil. Not enought weight and the bolt will pound the action. I don't know if an 07 bolt would fit nor do I know if a .351 mag. will fit as the .351 is longer, but I suppose anything is possible.
I would not fire it until it is inspected by a gunsmith that knows these self loaders.
August 24, 2012, 02:10 PM
I have the same rifle. Model 1905 with 351 overstamp and 351 magazine.
August 24, 2012, 02:16 PM
They are blowback operated like a 22 rimfire. I wouldn't fire it except in a vise with a string and a tree to hide behind.
August 24, 2012, 03:06 PM
If I were the OP, I would get my head together with SGnew and 35Rem's specialty collector's board and try to find out if maybe my pig in a poke turned out to be a blue ribbon Poland China.
As far as shooting it goes, a handloader would have no trouble loading .351s down to .35 ballistics so as to not beat up the blowback action.
Let me know if you find a gunsmith who knows what he is looking at, knows what makes it usable or not, and is willing to assume the liability of telling you so.
August 26, 2012, 05:14 AM
Here is the 351 stamp on the barrel. A winchester expert told me the sight is a remington sight. Magazine well enlarged for the 351 marked magazine. What's your theory on how this came about? I'll hold mine until I hear some of yours. http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u378/SGnew/c0a90d94.jpg
IIRC, that rifle and caliber was one of the guns used to take out Bonnie and Clyde. Purvis had ealier armed some of his agents with the rifle
August 26, 2012, 03:36 PM
Well I can see that someone added the number one to .35. I guess someone modified this rifle to fire the more powerful .351 ctg. I would not fire it will full power ammo as the bolt and spring are regulated to the .35 slr ctg., unless someone swapped out the bolt and recoil spring which I highly doubt.
August 26, 2012, 04:43 PM
Former Texas Ranger Frank Hamer set up the ambush of Bonnie and Clyde. He had a Model 8 Remington in 35 Remington. Backup included BAR's. Purvis took down John Dillinger.
I really don't think I'd shoot this 1905. Too iffy...
August 26, 2012, 05:53 PM
I just read a post on another forum, Vintage Semi Automatic Firearms and there was a post from a member who bought an 05 and he/she stated that the magazine well was identical in size to the .351.
August 26, 2012, 09:11 PM
Here's the Shooter's Forum site with some good information on history and loads, and may prove interesting to some.