[sm]

I'm gathering some information, and I'd appreciate some input please.

I have an instructor whom has primarily been a rifle shooter, more specific Model 70 in '06 for target and deer.

He is thinking about a handgun to hunt deer with and do some "piddlin" target stuff with. Basically dabble with handloading and hunt with this gun, as a change from centerfire rifles.

My experience is mostly with model 29 Smiths or Ruger BH's using either .44 spl or .44 mag dependent on game.

I have shot the .454 SRH in 7.5" with a variety of Winchester factory ammo and some "mild" target reloads. *grin* I like this , I like this a whole bunch better than the .480 Ruger personally.

I'm Thinking /Leaning that a .44 mag might offer the more range of use, factory loads, and loading data over the .454. Also the choice of platforms are greater to choose from.

So those of you that have target, hunting, reloading experience and the like give me some feedback please.

I have pointed out the factory loads and info, I also suggested the platform "might" deterimine which way HE chooses to go.

[jem375]

depends on the range you are going to be taking shots at. The 454 wins hands down at longer ranges. out to around 75 yards the 44 mag will do.

[Majic]

The horsepower of the .454 is rarely needed, nor the .44mag either. For some reason people are drawn to the idea that nothing short of a nuclear detonation will bring down deer. Any big bore cartridge pushing a suitable bullet at least 900 fps will do a nice job in deer hunting. Handcannons only fill the "I want" catergory. They are not needed as most handgun hunting are done inside of 75 yards.
Hunting is about waiting and taking the most ideal shot, not just pulling the trigger at any opportunity that presents itself and hoping the horsepower will overcome bad decisions.

[BigG]

The 454 is a real niche cartridge although that could also be said to a lesser extent for the 44 Magnum.

The 454 has about TWICE the recoil of the 44 Magnum in factory loads so it's more than 99.5% of people want to deal with. I can't tell you how many clean used 454s with only a handful of shots thru them get sold. Similar with the 44 Magnum, but it appeals to a broader audience imho. At handgun distances I doubt a deer would know which hit him. YMMV

[sm]

Ok so my thinking is not off base then.

Since we are speaking of deer in "brush" , the .44 mag in a single action would probably be fine. Unless of course he ran across a classic model 29. I personally like the .44spl with a good bullet for a lot of uses. So if he were to get an invite to shoot hogs and the like the gun and loads for distance and task is ample. More factory loadings avail, and more published reloading data.

I stressed gun fit - platform/MOA, and the fact the Bisley seems to "roll "in the hand well for most folks. Then again tweaking the grips or new Herrett's , or similar will make a difference as well.

Thanks for replies so far, I'm still reading , learning, seeking additional input and ideas - hey I'm getting something out of this for my own education.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's sm my friend-

In taking whitetails (of the two legged variety) here
in central DixieLand, I think a properly loaded .357
magnum would work just fine. :rolleyes: But you asked
about the .44 magnum; as compared to a tank, right?
No, I mean the .454 Casull. Like the ole southern
gentleman and my partner in crime Big G said,
" I don't think a deer would know what hit him"; or
something to that effect? If I were to hit the woods
this afternoon in search of a big, elusive whitetail;
I'd take my 5" Smith & Wesson 629-5 "Classic" in
.44 magnum. Here in my part of the valley, one is
bothered by heavy underbrush; and therefore is
not likely to get off a shot over 75 yards.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[sm]

Ala Dan , thanks you sir.

See , this being an instructor and all...."it came out" that I shoot. :p
Anyways I let it be known I still like a 4" model 10 or Model 19 with "appropriate loads" for small game. I also use a 1911 style. Well he has a .357...he uses for HD...heck the old boy just wants a new toy! :D Well can't fault that line of thinking now can I?.

Now I have enjoyed shooting a .454 , I have taken a few critters with a .480 Ruger, and this does a "fine job" on rabid skunks *grin* ...I think Art calls this "misty". :D

I really like DA Smiths and BH's for SA . I dunno why, probably the way I was raised or something.

From what I gather a "brush gun" for deer, woods gun for whatever and piddlin' on the range.

I volunteered to go to a couple shops with him and help him spend his money. I may get to.

I also said I would be happy to range test the gun ( whatever he chooses) in lieu of a lab exam ...well I tried, it was a thought. I can't get by with nothing it seems.

:p

[Baron Holbach4]

It gives pause to wonder why Randy Garrett focuses
on .44 magnum and .45-70 but not the .454 or .480:

"Our 310-grain 44 Magnum Hammerhead Ammo is the most powerful SAAMI
pressure-compliant ammo available and provides penetration comparable to that achieved with the 375 Holland & Holland using solid bullets. Our 330-grain Hammerhead Ammo is the most powerful 44 Magnum ammo in existence, and rivals the 454 Casull for impact-effect while producing far less chamber pressure."

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/about.asp

Also, you might try Garrett's 420 grain .45-70 through a
BFR revolver.

[dairycreek]

I have fired both the 454 (Freedom Arms) and the 44 magnum (S&W & Ruger) and, quite frankly, I just don't much appreciate the 454 for what I do with a handgun. I like to plink and the 44, IMHO, gives one a much wider variety of choice when it comes to ammo. Even though I reload I still lean toward the 44 magnum over the 454.

I do hunt Coastal Blacktail deer here in western Oregon and, for that, the 44 magnum has proved quite effective. I'm not really too recoil sensitive and, for me, the noise causes me more problems than the force of the recoil. As long as I wear good ear protection recoil is not a problem. But, the recoil from the 454 is a LOT MORE than anything the 44 has to offer.

While I have taken elk with a 44 magnum I think that this tough customer might well be better suited to the 454 but, since I haven't done that, it is only an opinion and nothing more. As I said, this is just my take on it and take it for what is is worth. Good shooting;)

[Sean Smith]

Really, and this is just my wimpy opinion :D , if a .44 Magnum won't solve your handgun problems, you probably shouldn't be using a handgun.

Not that huge freakin' calibers aren't totally cool, mind you. :evil:

[sm]

Not that huge freakin' calibers aren't totally cool, mind you.
Yes Sean I can relate. I'm the guy that "played with" a SRH in .454 the other day. I was given 100 rds...I only returned 25...worse than 'tater chips...couldn't stop myself...

Ok I agree the .44 mag is hard to beat. Granted be it far from me to NOT recommend whatever new toy this instructor ends up with. Heck I need to "do good" , who knows part of this "might" go towards "class participation"...and I know you all want me to do well. :D

I admit , I did shotshell reloading and my buddy did the metallic. I have seen the data from Winchester in regard to factory ammo.

Anyone care to share some real world reloading comparisons? Please.

Not bone jarring , just some sane practical loads you folks use on deer, other critters- I'd appreciate it.

Oh heck...toss in some bone jarring stuff. This fella is ...err..."big old boy with big meaty hands".

I deny ever stating that fact if push comes to shove...

[dvnv]

If was going target shooting or hunting and had to pick between a 44 mag or 454, I would choose the more accurate gun of the two.

If I was advising someone on which big bore to start with...it would be the 44 mag (does a 44 mag still count as a big bore?).

Sooo...I recommend that he get an accurate 44 mag. Best chance (in my experience) for good off the shelf accuracy is a Freedom Arms, followed by Dan Wesson, Colt Anaconda, Ruger SBH, RH, or SRH, and S&W 29, (no Taurus experience), in that order. Many have good luck with accuracy in the model 29, but I have not...maybe because they were all the same early 80's vintage. My .02, dvnv

[mete]

Well for those who want hand cannons ,they have introduced at the SHOT show a handgun that fires the 50BMG cartridge !!! In reality the 44mag is about twice as effective as a 357. The 44mag is more than many can handle and the more powerfull can be handled by even fewer. But it comes down to bullet placement . I f you place the bullet properly the 44mag will do the job well. My experience is with the 44mag and I,ve found that it performs very well ,all you need for a deer. I suggest practice, practice ,practice.

[Sarge]

I can only comment on the .44 Mag & hot-loaded .45 Colt, as I have not used the .454 Casull. Let me start by saying that I have killed about 8-9 deer with these, and that doesn't remotely qualify me as an expert on the subject. I can confidently state that when shot well, any of them will do, and when shot poorly, you'll have a tracking job on your hands regardless of which one you close.

In .44 I've used everything from 240 SWC's @ 1100, on up to 300 XTP's @ 1325. In .45 Colt I have used 240 Sierras at 1350, and 255 SWC's at 1050-1100. Both calibers are close enough in actual performance on deer-sized game to call them equal. On the really big stuff, I imagine the .45/325/1300 is a bit more effective. People I trust, who have seen a good number of bears shot with both, say the .45 works better. I won't argue with them absent first-hand experience.

But on deer in particular, placement is everything- and two holes are always better than one. Whitetails have the constitution of a big coyote, and if you don't break them down they can run for unbelievable distances with big holes through their innards. As long as you connect with the major bones of the shoulder or the spine, you got yourself a deer. Hit a little too far back and/or high... it gets iffy and you have to earn them. Regardless of what you use, once the decision to shoot is made, keep shooting until your deer stays down.

I imagine the .454 smacks them with notably more authority than either the .44 or .45, but I'm positive that you don't really need the extra horsepower. Deer evidently don't read gun magazines, because the half-dozen I shot with a 4" Model 29 didn't complain at all about my reduced ballistic efficiency with the shorter barrel. They just fell over if hit well, or required another dose if they weren't hit so good. The bad hits sure weren't the result of any deficiency on the gun's part.

Shoot well, and you do fine.

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

As an industry manufacturer and distributor to dealers of thousands of progressive reloaders and bulletcasting tools, the consensus of opinion is that the 44 mag is the least shot and most often sold after purchase of any caliber and I am not referring to the Casull or larger. I have a Star loader for 45LC and 454 that I no longer use as I carry a Smith model 58 and enjoy shooting it and I carried it as an officer and am really used to it.

Among my Bullet mold customers for California Saeco molds the most popular big caliber mold is for the 220 gr .41 magnum. An active duty Major in West Virginia uses his for deer commonly shot from 50 to 80 yards in the woods and a retired Major in Alaska uses his 41 for Moose and bear which they eat up there and he makes one shot kills. I asked him why the 41 and he said that he felt it was a more accurate weapon and My idea is that there is less tendency to flinch or jerk the trigger with the 41 than the .44 and it is just a more enjoyable caliber to shoot at targets or for bring dinner home.

Paul Jones Retired California Saeco Distributor

[Greybeard]

A short while back, I was seriously contemplating a single action Ruger "Convertible", .45 Colt/.45ACP just because I "needed" one.

A buddy (Chaz) convinced me to spend the money on .454 7 1/2" SBH instead. His .45 Colt handloads with 300 grain cast bullets, to me, are about like shooting .38+Ps in a .357. But, yea the same weight 454s are a blast! Recoil-wise though, I've been hurt worse by Smith's 12-ounce .357 with factory grips.

Besides paper, all I've shot with the .454 hand cannon so far are a couple of trapped shunks. And head shots were quite effective there. :D

I had to do a class and missed the trip, but Chaz said on last hog hunting adventure up near Red River, he got a brief glimpse of a BIG boar that made him real glad to have a .454 Casull round keyed up instead of just .45 Colt. And glad to be carrying 45/70 rifle as well!

So for deer, probably six of one or half dozen of the other. But, for the bigger critters, I sorta like the concept of "Use enough gun." And "two holes are better than one".

[sm]

I really appreciate all the input - Thanks Everyone !

I'm learning a bunch from this. See I pretty much stayed with 1911 style and K frames all these years. On bigger stuff, I just shot the darn things...just shot other's guns and loads. I haven't gotten too involved.

Well if it were me with deep pockets, I'd get one of each I mean heck, ain't no "bad guns" are there?. :D

The .454, .45LC, .44, and .41 I have shot, I can see the benefit of handloading so obtain optimum / tailored load needs for various tasks. Since this fellow will handload, any would serve his needs.

Personally I got an itch for a USFA , dunno why, just because.

Ok any other places to look for load data besides the ammo mfg websites that might be of use?

I guess I should give WESHOOT2 a shout - huh?

[patentnonsense]

44 is enough for me - but if you're thinking 454, why not think 500??

[BigG]

Mr. Fitz: Hello, it was also my distinct impression that .41 Magnum kicked noticeably less than the .44 Magnum when fired with factory MAGNUM ammo in identical Smith Models 57 and 29. I think that's why there is a love affair with the .41, because as you noted, many shoot the .44 Magnum once and they ARE DONE. I bought 2 or 3 .44s like new with box, docs, and an almost full box of ammo. I think people keep the 41s more often, not only the fact that fewer were made. Cheers!

[Majic]

The .41mag is probably one of the most underated cartridges on the market. Many shooters tend to overlook it and many have know idea it even exists. It truly is a sleeper. We .41 shooters try to keep it that way and will hoard every single model we can get our grubby little hands on. :D