Moneys Tight


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Bigcountry
May 4, 2012, 06:49 PM
Well like most of you money is especially tight these days. This would be my first rifle purchase. I currently own a .308 savage for deer hunting, mossberg 500 turkey gun, and a ruger .22 all handed down. This will be mostly a fun gun but could also be a defensive gun in some crazy circumstance, back up deer rifle. I've been looking for a long time and cannot decide if you guys could give some input that would be awsome.

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Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 06:57 PM
how about a FN PS90 or MP5 civilian

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 06:59 PM
thought the ps90 is way the other direction from the low money part :-x

a AR-15 with 9mm kit would be cost effective to shoot, a sig 556-22 shoots .22lr , the S&W m&p ar-15 or the .22 version of that

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 07:00 PM
they also make an mp5 .22

allaroundhunter
May 4, 2012, 07:00 PM
It would be hard to beat an AR-15. You can join the club with a quality gun for $800 (or less if you'd like). It fires a very affordable round, and with the right bullet is capable of taking down deer.

how about a FN PS90 or MP5 civilian

Money is tight....They also would be hard pressed to bring down a deer.

He also says that he already has a .22


Your idea of tight money and mine are quite different, Bigcountry. But for what you want it is very hard to beat an AR15. I would say forget the AR-10, you already have a .308, and for defense most are heavy and unwieldy, the same for the M1A.

Tim the student
May 4, 2012, 07:01 PM
Money is tight and you're looking at buying an M1A? I guess that term means different things to all of us.

Of those, I'd go with the M1A myself. I wouldn't want to hump it all that far though.

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 07:17 PM
yes but a .22 handgun isn't as fun as a sbr with large capacity mags

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 07:18 PM
as for a backup deer rifle if it doesn't die with a .308 try a .338 lapua or barret .50

allaroundhunter
May 4, 2012, 07:19 PM
as for a backup deer rifle if it doesn't die with a .308 try a .338 lapua or barret .50

He isn't saying if the .308 doesn't kill it.....he is saying if the .308 breaks or if he just wants to take something else.

yes but a .22 handgun isn't as fun as a sbr with large capacity mags

And now you are recommending that he pay another $200 for an SBR tax stamp?

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 07:23 PM
the mp5.22 and similar have the legal barrel length but are bullpupped so they seem shorter than they are

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 07:24 PM
m1a is def not a low price item if you want a good one, ak's can be had from $300-3000.00 so you have a wide price range there

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 07:26 PM
and a tax stamp on a $350 .22 isn't that bad I have several. but if he really wants something fun, deer killable and afordable go with the ak every country in the world makes ammo for it and is available everywhere

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 07:28 PM
there just aren't that many "fun" affordable rifles that'd take down a deer. my def of a fun gun is high round count, cheap ammo that can be bought local or in bulk online

allaroundhunter
May 4, 2012, 07:28 PM
the mp5.22 and similar have the legal barrel length but are bullpupped so they seem shorter than they are

Then it is not an SBR....and it is also not a bullpup.

http://www.hk22rimfire.com/images/2245265_rs.jpg
^Not a bullpup
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/assault/as30/tavor_02.jpg
^Bullpup

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 07:37 PM
if the stock is not perm welded open it's considered an sbr. mine collapses, back on topic can we get back to the original guys question... you might also consider a ruger 10/22 and this: http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=67&category_id=11&keyword=.22&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=19

Southernsorrow
May 4, 2012, 07:39 PM
still think the AK is your best bet, ammo prices, availability, will take down a deer within 200 yards, will take down a man easily it's been doing it for about 65+ years

MachIVshooter
May 4, 2012, 07:44 PM
if the stock is not perm welded open it's considered an sbr.

Dead wrong. OAL is measured with stock extended/folded out. A rifle can be shorter than 26" with the stock folded/collapsed. Few are under 26" either way, as the 16" barrel + receiver usually makes 26".

allaroundhunter
May 4, 2012, 07:45 PM
if the stock is not perm welded open it's considered an sbr

...... I have given the OP my opinions, so I will let others here continue to point out the false advice that you are giving.

wlewisiii
May 4, 2012, 07:56 PM
Well, when money's tight I tend to prefer more practical things. A Mauser in 7x57 or a Winchester 94 in .30-30. Both would be much easier on the pocket than any of those.

That said, of the ones on your list, I'd go with the DSA FAL. I've had a FAL in the past (Century) and the DSA is going to be all the better. Hell, I'd take that old beater of a Century back over any AK or AR pattern rifle made by anyone but that's my particular bias showing through.

Bigcountry
May 4, 2012, 07:59 PM
money is tight in a sense that if I could I would own all of them. Deffinitly not looking for a .22 or pistol caliber carbine. Not to worried about ammo, I can buy all the listed calibers relativly cheap and in bulk. I will not compromise quality and am not looking for a subpar rifle keyword rifle.

Bigcountry
May 4, 2012, 08:00 PM
i would not take a .22 or 9mm carbine deer hunting.

Rail Driver
May 4, 2012, 08:03 PM
I voted for the DSA FAL because I want a FAL more than any other rifle right now. It's a great defensive weapon and with 5rd mags, can be an effective hunting rifle.

DM~
May 4, 2012, 08:29 PM
Because you added "back up deer rifle", i can't choose my FIRST choise. That would be an AR in .223. Lots of fun, but i would not pick it for a back up deer rifle.

DM

Steel Horse Rider
May 4, 2012, 08:31 PM
I think the other thing to consider is whether you want to keep another caliber of ammo or stick with the .308. The 7.62 x 39 ammo is plentyful and reasonably priced and it will put food on your table with a soft point round. If you reload, another weapon in .308 would make for affordable shooting and would definitely put food on the table. If you want something more in a carbine length and not semi-auto perhaps one of the modern scout rifles would be good.

Bigcountry
May 4, 2012, 08:45 PM
I do hunt in northern wisconsin woods so I'm thinking a shorter barrel would be nice. I wouldn't give a second thought to using the .223 for deer, its all about shot placement. Here in Wisconsin we don't have a limit on what size magazine we use, not saying im going to take a beta mag out in the deer woods. That might look kind of crazy.

valnar
May 4, 2012, 09:01 PM
Without knowing what your reasons are, I'll walk you through my thought process.

That Savage .308 is already your long-range-precision-scoped rifle gig, so you don't need another. Cross off the AR-10, PTR91 and FAL. The M1A can stay because you enjoy it for the irons.

Both the AR-15 and AK47 fill in a nitch between your .22 and .308. Both cheaper to shoot than a .308 and a lot of fun.

So I'd choose between an M1A, AR15 or AK. If you check out both the AR and AK, you might fall into one of "those" camps immediately and rule one out. Then you'll be between the M1A and {AR,AK}. Two choices.


All that being said, If you can't decide on the ballistic merits of each platform, then use other factors. Do you like something easy to field strip? Easy to clean? Is accuracy the most important for THIS purchase? Is it going to double as a fictitious SHTF/Zombie/TEOTWAWKI gun? etc.

OARNGESI
May 4, 2012, 09:05 PM
if moneys thight i would stay away from with your 223 or 7.62x39 choices

Telekinesis
May 4, 2012, 09:07 PM
I hope I eventually have the finances to say "well, looks like money's gonna be tight this year, I guess I have to settle for that budget $2,000 DSA FAL... I feel I'm practically joining the proletariat class!" :neener:

I'm kinda split between the FAL and the M1A. If you're looking for a general duty rifle, I'd go FAL, DSA has some nice 16-18" barreled carbines. But if you want something that you can shoot more accurately at longer range, the M1A is probably a better choice. The FALs are very reliable and combat accurate, but they aren't tack drivers at long range. (That said, 500 yard shots on a silhouette shouldn't be a problem for a FAL). The M1A also has more traditional ergos if that appeals to you.


if the stock is not perm welded open it's considered an sbr. mine collapses, back on topic can we get back to the original guys question... you might also consider a ruger 10/22...

Southernsorrow, first of all, please put all your thoughts into one post. You come across as more than a little ADHD when you have 4 posts in 5 minutes each containing one sentence each.

I love how you criticize us for getting off topic, and then move the thread further off topic. In what state is a .22 legal for deer? And I wouldn't really call it a capable defensive round.
And if your MP5 .22 has a 16" barrel and is still considered a SBR, I'm calling BS until I see your Form 4 (feel free to black out personal info though). In a strange spirit of rationality, the ATF measures OAL with stocks extended, not collapsed. And there's no way in hell a MP5 is a bulpup...

Girodin
May 5, 2012, 10:07 PM
the mp5.22 and similar have the legal barrel length but are bullpupped so they seem shorter than they are

What??? No.

f the stock is not perm welded open it's considered an sbr.

No you are totally wrong again.

thought the ps90 is way the other direction from the low money part :-x

It is less than a number of DSA FALs, AR-10s, and M1As. It also is the price of certain DD ARs.

BCRider
May 5, 2012, 11:33 PM
I'd say that if money is tight then the last thing you need is another ammo dispenser which is expensive to feed.

Instead I'd suggest you spend the spare money on a reloading setup so you can reload .308 for cheaper.

ExAgoradzo
May 6, 2012, 12:06 AM
"Well, when money's tight I tend to prefer more practical things. A Mauser in 7x57 or a Winchester 94 in .30-30. Both would be much easier on the pocket than any of those"
+1

I would love an M1A, so of your list, that's my choice... But this isnt about me:

Get a 270 Win or a 30-30: availability cheap effective an the 270 in various loads will stay well in a competition if you do your part.

+1 on the 338 Win Mag... Oh yah, this isn't about me...

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
May 6, 2012, 12:59 AM
My choice isn't on your list. Instead of a heavier AR-10 (I own one in 7mm.08) get an AR 15 in 6.8spcII. People seem to forget they have other calibers in the AR 15 now and can be had for under $1000 (Just ordered one from Rock River Arms). The 6.8 has more than enough "umph" for deer and has a very nice selection of bullets for deer sized game. Would make a nice "back up" for the deer woods as long as your state allows for Semi Auto use. MUCH better choice than the .223 for deer. Also, you can, later on down the road when funds permit, add another upper from the many caliber choices offered in the AR 15 platform for pretty cheap.

ugaarguy
May 6, 2012, 01:49 AM
I do hunt in northern wisconsin woods so I'm thinking a shorter barrel would be nice. I wouldn't give a second thought to using the .223 for deer, its all about shot placement. Here in Wisconsin we don't have a limit on what size magazine we use, not saying im going to take a beta mag out in the deer woods. That might look kind of crazy.
My choice isn't on your list. Instead of a heavier AR-10 (I own one in 7mm.08) get an AR 15 in 6.8spcII. People seem to forget they have other calibers in the AR 15 now and can be had for under $1000 (Just ordered one from Rock River Arms). The 6.8 has more than enough "umph" for deer and has a very nice selection of bullets for deer sized game. Would make a nice "back up" for the deer woods as long as your state allows for Semi Auto use. MUCH better choice than the .223 for deer. Also, you can, later on down the road when funds permit, add another upper from the many caliber choices offered in the AR 15 platform for pretty cheap.
In addition to 6.8 SPC II, Alexander Arms dropped their trademark on 6.5 Grendel, and it's now a SAAMI cartridge. AAC also got the .300-.221 SAAMI certified as the .300 BLK. I personally like the .300 BLK because it uses standard AR mags & followers, but any of those three would be more than adequate for deer at the shorter ranges of hunting in thick woods. I'm also not opposed to .223 for deer with proper bullet selection, and the proper shot placement any ethical hunter will practice anyway. That's my added fluff to the thoughts already expressed.

I really agree with FFIL's advice to not ignore the alternate AR-15 calibers that are now pretty widely available, and keep in mind how easy a caliber switch is with an upper & magazine swap. It sounds like you want an AR anyway, but get what you want. Any of the options in the poll will easily fill the roles you laid out in the OP.

Last, since you want a dual role rifle and seem to like DD ARs already, have you looked at DD's hunting AR focused brand Ambush Firearms (https://ambushfirearms.com/shop/rifles.html)?

captain awesome
May 6, 2012, 04:17 AM
my first choice wasn't on the list;

FNH FNAR

68wj
May 6, 2012, 10:06 AM
Last, since you want a dual role rifle and seem to like DD ARs already, have you looked at DD's hunting AR focused brand Ambush Firearms (https://ambushfirearms.com/shop/rifles.html)?
I handled a few recently and really like them. Great trigger and quality build components. Also, this can be had from a THR member: http://bisonarmory.com/18-6-8-spc-recon-rifle/

Aiko492
May 6, 2012, 01:50 PM
You already have a .308 rifle, going with the AR platform would be a nice addition to what you have. You listed my two favorite AR's-Daniel Defense and BCM, both a tops for quality and the companies have very good service.

Welding Rod
May 6, 2012, 01:56 PM
If money is tight I would get an AR and shoot cheap 223 ammo. Although I wouldn't try to take big game with it. I'd save the bolt gun for the game and the semi-auto for shooting.

Smith357
May 6, 2012, 01:57 PM
A lever action rifle .44 magnum, plenty of punch for deer, fairly cheap more so if you reload, more than enough rounds for social work.

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